Do you agree that optional nameplates, in a similar vein to chat bubbles, would be good for the game

Tavore1138 · September 2014

Other - Post an explanation?

magnusnet wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

No for both, it's just not ES !

Good, this is not ES, it's ESO.

Tandor wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

I actually think its sad how people can say no to this, if its optional knowing that it will make lots of other people happy and will have lots of fun with it.

I wont use it either, but knowing that lots will and having their happy times with it, why would I be so selfish to say no to it.

Some players who don't want to use it fear that it will become non-optional as some groups will demand its use, or they may be "gimped" if they don't use it.

Some don't want developers' time spent on this when they feel there are more pressing issues that need addressing.

Some feel that it's the start of a slippery slope towards turning a distinctive MMO into a clone of all the other standard MMOs, and they want none of it.

Those are just a few reasons off the top of my head as to why people may be opposed to a change like this, even if it is stated to be optional. It's not selfish to hold such views.

Why is it so bad to be a "clone" of other MMOs and why are people afraid of it?

And he is right because UI is one of the things that makes many players stay or go (it's not like you see it all the time, every day you play), and current UI is more on the - than on the + side for most players used to MMORPGs.
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I can only give my answers to what I see as two key parts of what you said...

Why is it bad to be a clone? Because I have hated every MMO before this with a fiery passion, from the cluttered interfaces to the faux elitism. I tried this because it is based on a favourite set of offline games. I stayed because it has a lot of the same feel plus PvP in an isolated but active area rocks and I enjoy sharing a world with other players. And It doesn't generally have that puerile attitude I have found in my brief dalliances with other MMOs.

You talk about players being used to a current MMO style but to borrow your car analogy that is like a driver refusing to try a flying car because he doesn't feel comfortable without 4 wheels. A case can be made that removing the clutter you relied on creates a different gaming experience where you cannot rely on verbal and numerical information feeds but on visual cues and observation.

The third part of this is that it is possible that ZOS are trying to ride the success of the TES series and so are trying to make this look & feel similar to players like me while allowing hooks for addons for players wanting a more old school MMO look. Without knowing what proportion of what type of players we have it is hard to know whether changes like this will gain or lose players.

TehMagnus · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I can only give my answers to what I see as two key parts of what you said...

Sorry but all your arguments sound the same to me as the previous ones and all previous arguments I put forwards still apply.

Why is it bad to be a clone? Because I have hated every MMO before this with a fiery passion, from the cluttered interfaces to the faux elitism. I tried this because it is based on a favourite set of offline games. I stayed because it has a lot of the same feel plus PvP in an isolated but active area rocks and I enjoy sharing a world with other players. And It doesn't generally have that puerile attitude I have found in my brief dalliances with other MMOs.

If you don't want to see nameplates and numbers, once again, you can just disable them, how does it become a clone if nothing changes on your screen? And once again UI has nothing to do with cloning other MMOs. If you've hated every MMO before this, I hope lore and current game mechanics are enough to keep you around because you will end up hating this one as well.

You talk about players being used to a current MMO style but to borrow your car analogy that is like a driver refusing to try a flying car because he doesn't feel comfortable without 4 wheels. A case can be made that removing the clutter you relied on creates a different gaming experience where you cannot rely on verbal and numerical information feeds but on visual cues and observation.

Comparing TESO to a flying car (in matter of UI) is very laughable, how's being less good than other games (in matter of UI) and restricting the way people want to play an improvement? It feels more like going back to the stone age ( where MMOS had minimalist UIs and no information on the screen) & riding a carriage with horses. Are we playing a retro game? As for visual cues and observation, don't worry you still need them even with addons, content ain't made easier because of add-ons but some of them actually help you play better by giving you performance info (but this is not the subject here). If you want more car analogies, this is like going from a digital screen where you get RPM, speed etc to: nothing.

The third part of this is that it is possible that ZOS are trying to ride the success of the TES series and so are trying to make this look & feel similar to players like me while allowing hooks for addons for players wanting a more old school MMO look. Without knowing what proportion of what type of players we have it is hard to know whether changes like this will gain or lose players.

Been playing since Arena, been asking for the MMO since Oblivion, doesn't stop me from actually wanting to play competitively and you can't do it without stuff like numbers & buff information. Regarding nametags and chat bubbles I'm not even sure I'll use them if/when they come, but why wouldn't I want other people using it? As for trying to make the game look & feel similar, if this was an idea since the beginning, they wouldn't have added this to the alpha testing.

To sum this up and to answer once again to all your points: As long as you can play it how you want without anything extra on the UI why do you care how we play it? How would adding an optional thing that doesn't change how you play unless you want it, make players leave? Only thing it can do is bring them back. And if you're afraid this is just a first step to adding more stuff to the UI like "numbers" and people will ask you to use stuff like DPS meters, then not only should you not be playing with those kind of people (since they clearly don't see the game as you do and there's obviously people like you out there you could/should group with), but they most def don't want to play with you.

No matter how you present the arguments, end result is and always will be the same: It doesn't affect you and a lot of people want it.

WraithAzraiel · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Personally I'd love to be able to have the guild that I'm representing beneath my name.

I know I know, *heavy lisp* Sthaaahp trying to ruin my immershions guysssth!11!"

Immersion be damned, there's an add-on for that. (I highly recommend Wykkyd's Gaming Suite) This is an MMO and as such should be afforded the same creature comforts and functionality available to us in other MMO's. (The only one with being able to represent multiple guilds that springs to mind is GW2)

Swampster · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

GnatB wrote: »

Swampster wrote: »

For some bizzare reason I can tolerate writing over everybody's head, but not a solid coloured bar.. don't ask me why, I'm just weird I guess

Just a suggestion, you can toggle whom the bars show up for. I personally only have them show up on enemies (always) and wounded allies.

The former lets me know whether or not I need to avoid a random NPC, (assuming I'm not looking for a fight), while the latter lets me know if somebody is in trouble/needs help.

With minimal amount (IMO) of clutter in normal situations.

I know, and I have them turned off.. my point was about the addition of nameplates, and I'd happily accept them if the health bar wasn't bundled in with the name plate.. and that they remained 2 separate entities

Attorneyatlawl · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Swampster wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

Swampster wrote: »

For some bizzare reason I can tolerate writing over everybody's head, but not a solid coloured bar.. don't ask me why, I'm just weird I guess

Just a suggestion, you can toggle whom the bars show up for. I personally only have them show up on enemies (always) and wounded allies.

The former lets me know whether or not I need to avoid a random NPC, (assuming I'm not looking for a fight), while the latter lets me know if somebody is in trouble/needs help.

With minimal amount (IMO) of clutter in normal situations.

I know, and I have them turned off.. my point was about the addition of nameplates, and I'd happily accept them if the health bar wasn't bundled in with the name plate.. and that they remained 2 separate entities

Gotcha, yeah they definitely should be separate options just like everything else is now (chevrons, healthbars, etc.)

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Attorneyatlawl · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Personally I'd love to be able to have the guild that I'm representing beneath my name.

I know I know, *heavy lisp* Sthaaahp trying to ruin my immershions guysssth!11!"

Immersion be damned, there's an add-on for that. (I highly recommend Wykkyd's Gaming Suite) This is an MMO and as such should be afforded the same creature comforts and functionality available to us in other MMO's. (The only one with being able to represent multiple guilds that springs to mind is GW2)

Quoted for truth.

Smiteye · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

magnusnet wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I can only give my answers to what I see as two key parts of what you said...

Sorry but all your arguments sound the same to me as the previous ones and all previous arguments I put forwards still apply.

Why is it bad to be a clone? Because I have hated every MMO before this with a fiery passion, from the cluttered interfaces to the faux elitism. I tried this because it is based on a favourite set of offline games. I stayed because it has a lot of the same feel plus PvP in an isolated but active area rocks and I enjoy sharing a world with other players. And It doesn't generally have that puerile attitude I have found in my brief dalliances with other MMOs.

If you don't want to see nameplates and numbers, once again, you can just disable them, how does it become a clone if nothing changes on your screen? And once again UI has nothing to do with cloning other MMOs. If you've hated every MMO before this, I hope lore and current game mechanics are enough to keep you around because you will end up hating this one as well.

You talk about players being used to a current MMO style but to borrow your car analogy that is like a driver refusing to try a flying car because he doesn't feel comfortable without 4 wheels. A case can be made that removing the clutter you relied on creates a different gaming experience where you cannot rely on verbal and numerical information feeds but on visual cues and observation.

Comparing TESO to a flying car (in matter of UI) is very laughable, how's being less good than other games (in matter of UI) and restricting the way people want to play an improvement? It feels more like going back to the stone age ( where MMOS had minimalist UIs and no information on the screen) & riding a carriage with horses. Are we playing a retro game? As for visual cues and observation, don't worry you still need them even with addons, content ain't made easier because of add-ons but some of them actually help you play better by giving you performance info (but this is not the subject here). If you want more car analogies, this is like going from a digital screen where you get RPM, speed etc to: nothing.

The third part of this is that it is possible that ZOS are trying to ride the success of the TES series and so are trying to make this look & feel similar to players like me while allowing hooks for addons for players wanting a more old school MMO look. Without knowing what proportion of what type of players we have it is hard to know whether changes like this will gain or lose players.

Been playing since Arena, been asking for the MMO since Oblivion, doesn't stop me from actually wanting to play competitively and you can't do it without stuff like numbers & buff information. Regarding nametags and chat bubbles I'm not even sure I'll use them if/when they come, but why wouldn't I want other people using it? As for trying to make the game look & feel similar, if this was an idea since the beginning, they wouldn't have added this to the alpha testing.

To sum this up and to answer once again to all your points: As long as you can play it how you want without anything extra on the UI why do you care how we play it? How would adding an optional thing that doesn't change how you play unless you want it, make players leave? Only thing it can do is bring them back. And if you're afraid this is just a first step to adding more stuff to the UI like "numbers" and people will ask you to use stuff like DPS meters, then not only should you not be playing with those kind of people (since they clearly don't see the game as you do and there's obviously people like you out there you could/should group with), but they most def don't want to play with you.

No matter how you present the arguments, end result is and always will be the same: It doesn't affect you and a lot of people want it.

Exactly, why is it OK to these guys to demand that people cant have nameplates optionally because they don't want to use them? They can just leave them off, problem solved!

And if you're afraid this is just a first step to adding more stuff to the UI like "numbers" and people will ask you to use stuff like DPS meters, then not only should you not be playing with those kind of people (since they clearly don't see the game as you do and there's obviously people like you out there you could/should group with), but they most def don't want to play with you.

Exactly even without numbers people can tell if youre derping and dying or not doing much damage, it isnt rocket science. Numbers and UI options have NOTHING to do with that at all period...!

Smiteye · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Personally I'd love to be able to have the guild that I'm representing beneath my name.

I know I know, *heavy lisp* Sthaaahp trying to ruin my immershions guysssth!11!"

Immersion be damned, there's an add-on for that. (I highly recommend Wykkyd's Gaming Suite) This is an MMO and as such should be afforded the same creature comforts and functionality available to us in other MMO's. (The only one with being able to represent multiple guilds that springs to mind is GW2)

Its ok for them to say we have to use addons but if we heaven forfend ask them to it's a national crisis! "Play my way or not at all, no options for you!" Even though they dont have to use the option.

Swampster · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Right now it not being in the game actually isn't hurting anybody. The game is and HAS BEEN playable.

For you maybe.. for me the game is not playable without the plethora of addons that I have. And I hate having to use add-ons! I think the default UI as it is.. is an abomination in terms of usability and usefulness.

It is a pain in the rear to use, it provides next to zero feedback, doesn't promote any kind of social interaction.. and for me makes the game world less "immersive".

As for the miniscule amounts of "advantage" you seem so overtly concerned about (which I would dispute anyway).. you really need to be pushing the devs for tighter controls if you're that paranoid...

The following is the logical result of such a ludicrous "teh advantage!!!11!!111!" argument..

The ability to change brightness/gamma etc need to be removed.
Turning various levels of volume up and down needs to be removed.
All add-ons need to be banned.
3rd party apps such as Ventrillo, TS3, Mumble etc should be banned.
3rd party apps such as Sweet FX should be banned.
These apps should be checked for on game load.. and the game shouldn't load if they are running, because the advantage gained from these apps is potentially HUGE.
The game should check if you have a more powerful PC than me, and slow down the game to lowest common denominator.
It should also check if your ping is better than mine, and artificially make everybody's ping 200ms at the very least. (not sure if they're not experimenting with this on the EU server actually

)

Quite insane, but then that's how objecting to having toggle-able options appears to me too!

butterfly442 · September 2014

NO. End of discussion.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

I love all those who vote 'no' .. clearly this OPTION wouldn't affect a single one of you as you wouldn't see the plates, I presume you're simply sad individuals of the "I don't want it so no-one will have it" mentality.

Tavore1138 · September 2014

Other - Post an explanation?

The comedy is that if I have an opinion I am denying your rights as expert MMO players who want to compete, if you have an opinion I must suck it up because it might spoil your fun if I don't.

Maybe my fun is defined by this not being like a generic MMO with all the interpersonal BS that represents. In many ways it is not the features that are the issue but the mindset they enable.

This game benefits from a lack of people spending entirely too much time comparing the size of their DPS scores, the more it gets these generic features the more it becomes intolerant and elitist and hostile to those who want to have fun without having to submit a resume containing their build, DPS and so on to people who feel they have a right to judge such things.

This game is different because it is largely free of elitist trolls and griefers, I would like it to stay that way.

Swampster · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

The comedy is that if I have an opinion I am denying your rights as expert MMO players who want to compete, if you have an opinion I must suck it up because it might spoil your fun if I don't.

Maybe my fun is defined by this not being like a generic MMO with all the interpersonal BS that represents. In many ways it is not the features that are the issue but the mindset they enable.

This game benefits from a lack of people spending entirely too much time comparing the size of their DPS scores, the more it gets these generic features the more it becomes intolerant and elitist and hostile to those who want to have fun without having to submit a resume containing their build, DPS and so on to people who feel they have a right to judge such things.

This game is different because it is largely free of elitist trolls and griefers, I would like it to stay that way.

Your entire argument is moot, because DPS meters are already available in game.. as add-ons and as yet I don't know a MMO that includes DPS counters by default. At least none of the MMO's I've played have.. which doesn't include WoW btw, as I've never played it.

And and going from integrated (optional) nameplates to addon DPS meters is a bit of a leap...

But anyway those same "elitist trolls" who use DPS meters to ascertain whether you're pulling your weight or not are still out there in plenty. Indeed tying to join some timed/hardmode runs as a stamina build NB can prove fruitless it would seem.. and that's without any input from addons.

Xeres14 · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Yeah but it in and give an option to turn it on or off. This is kind of a no brainer.

Khami · September 2014

What do you need nameplates for? The only info the UI doesn't give you about another play is what guild they are in and that would be impossible with they allow you to be in five guilds. Which guild get shown?

Less BS on my screen the better. Don't tell me to turn it off. How about the default be off and you have to turn it on.

stewie_801 · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Fine with both, with the optional part implemented. Would like to see for PVP is only in the group I am in, so at sieges there would not be a lot of clutter, and I could still want to use it.

Swampster · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Khami wrote:

What do you need nameplates for? The only info the UI doesn't give you about another play is what guild they are in and that would be impossible with they allow you to be in five guilds. Which guild get shown?

It allows me to see at a glance who is around me in a busy town for example without having to hover over each person individually.. as for which guild gets shown, the player can choose which get shown, the same way they can choose titles. Not hard is it?

Khami wrote:

Don't tell me to turn it off. How about the default be off and you have to turn it on.

Is that argument for argument's sake? I'm pretty sure people have said they'd be happy if the default was off.. but they could if they chose turn it on!

I assume, if you don't have to turn it off you wouldn't object then?

Faulgor · September 2014

I've only ever played MMOs without such "nameplates". What's the appeal?

Chat bubbles are absolutely necessary, though. Glad they finally make it in.

Swampster · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Faulgor wrote: »

I've only ever played MMOs without such "nameplates".

Really? Seriously, I've never seen another MMO that doesn't have them?

GaiusCastricius · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

I think yes completly as even running in small groups it's a lot easier to see in PvP or PvE group fighting but with a bit of customization with it aka perhaps selecting which players chat bubbles pop up or only group bubbles that sort of thing so players don't have to deal with excessive spam and the UI getting cluttered up. A lot of it will come down to user preference but it's always a great option for any game to give players the choice.

TehMagnus · September 2014

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

The comedy is that if I have an opinion I am denying your rights as expert MMO players who want to compete, if you have an opinion I must suck it up because it might spoil your fun if I don't.

Maybe my fun is defined by this not being like a generic MMO with all the interpersonal BS that represents. In many ways it is not the features that are the issue but the mindset they enable.

This game benefits from a lack of people spending entirely too much time comparing the size of their DPS scores, the more it gets these generic features the more it becomes intolerant and elitist and hostile to those who want to have fun without having to submit a resume containing their build, DPS and so on to people who feel they have a right to judge such things.

This is a lie because most people run FTC which has a DPS meter and linker and in order to get into good guilds you need to show your DPS so this mentality is already in place and will only get worse as more and more people learn how to play right and take on the same mentality.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

This game is different because it is largely free of elitist trolls and griefers, I would like it to stay that way.

It isn't, you just haven't met them yet

, moreover, as time passes, more and more people learn to play better (since Elitists are training people who have the capacity to get better because there aren't enough high level players and there is inter alliance competition). The difference will then be even more noticeable and the amount of people doing it right and refusing to engage in hard/end game content with people like you who just "want to have fun" will only increase. UI has nothing to do with this and won't keep you from being rejected by "Elitist meanies". Might as well quit now if that's so traumatizing for you because it's going to happen.

At last all you say, besides of being unfounded fears, has nothing what so ever to do with OP that only asks if people want Nameplates along with talking bubbles.

UI doesn't push or enable the Elitist mindset, the fact that there is a metagame and hard content does and it's a good thing there is hard content and it's inevitable to have a metagame (unless everything you do is op which then makes hard content easy). Just the way MMOs work ESO isn't an exception.

Tavore1138 · September 2014