Do you agree that optional nameplates, in a similar vein to chat bubbles, would be good for the game

Arato

No - They shouldn't be present at all.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Swampster wrote: »

Koopest wrote: »

nameplate is horrible. even if they introduce namplates which is able to be turned off, most ppl who doesn't like namplate is forced to turn them on when pve, pvp because it gives you huge advantage. chat bubble? it's okay because it's not that much impact on pve , pvp whether or not turning on. but nameplates? no

Please explain this HUGE advantage if for example it's implemented in such a way, that name plates are only visible for members of your own faction during PVP?

Or, they were no wider than the in current in game health bars?

When you have an Argonian, which a lore appropriate name might be Digs-Holes-To-Seek-Other-Side-Of-Nirn, you're not going to have it be the same width as current health bars.

I think there is already a max number of characters on names , not completely sure since it has been a long time since i made my chars (and im not deleting them :P , since 1: they are name savers 2: the 7 mules all have horses i lvl on carry space already ).

Well to give you an idea, my DK's name is "Soars-Like-Cliff-Racer" that's 22 characters. So the name character limit is probably pretty long, it could even be 64 characters.

It's not. The name limit is about 20, I'd have to double check the specific number but that's not terribly important from there.

my name is over 20 characters.

Attorneyatlawl

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Arato wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Swampster wrote: »

Koopest wrote: »

nameplate is horrible. even if they introduce namplates which is able to be turned off, most ppl who doesn't like namplate is forced to turn them on when pve, pvp because it gives you huge advantage. chat bubble? it's okay because it's not that much impact on pve , pvp whether or not turning on. but nameplates? no

Please explain this HUGE advantage if for example it's implemented in such a way, that name plates are only visible for members of your own faction during PVP?

Or, they were no wider than the in current in game health bars?

When you have an Argonian, which a lore appropriate name might be Digs-Holes-To-Seek-Other-Side-Of-Nirn, you're not going to have it be the same width as current health bars.

I think there is already a max number of characters on names , not completely sure since it has been a long time since i made my chars (and im not deleting them :P , since 1: they are name savers 2: the 7 mules all have horses i lvl on carry space already ).

Well to give you an idea, my DK's name is "Soars-Like-Cliff-Racer" that's 22 characters. So the name character limit is probably pretty long, it could even be 64 characters.

It's not. The name limit is about 20, I'd have to double check the specific number but that's not terribly important from there.

my name is over 20 characters.

About 20 doesn't mean exactly 20.

KanedaSyndrome

Wait, what, are we getting chat bubbles? Finally?!!!

Attorneyatlawl

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Wait, what, are we getting chat bubbles? Finally?!!!

That's how many of us would react to news of nameplates coming in.

Reivax

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Yes, as long as I can turn it all off. I love how clean everything is on my screen without text bubbles, so I don't personally want to see it. It breaks my immersion.
As long as I don't have to see the clutter, and nobody can see my nameplate either, I'm in favor of it.

Chuggernaut

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Which guild would show up, or would you have the option to pick the guild you want to display?

Attorneyatlawl

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Chuggernaut wrote: »

Which guild would show up, or would you have the option to pick the guild you want to display?

Just like tabards here or the UI options in guild wars 2, you would choose what guild to represent at any given time and could change it anytime.

pirate3

No - They shouldn't be present at all.

Optional is optional, so it seems a little unfair to be against. Personally I love not seeing name tags. I really appreciate the minimalist ESO UI, and that mock-up with the name tags just looks so wrong to me. I wouldn't throw my toys if they introduced this, but I would never turn it on.

GnatB

Other - Post an explanation?

Well, another thing I would argue should be optional *if* they implement nameplates that show guild affiliation. The option to not show any of your guild affiliations.

ToneFish

No - They shouldn't be present at all.

Seeing that many find nameplates an important feature it clearly does matter to the gameplay. If it gives you an advantage in PvP or when grouping, even if it is made optional in the GUI and can be turned off, there will always be those who require you to use it to be at your best.

Even if it is implemented so that you control whether or not others can see your nameplate, there is likely even more cause for people to require you to turn it on while in a group. I just know that I personally do not want to use nameplates and I never want to be forced to turn them on to be effective in a team.

Attorneyatlawl

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

ToneFish wrote: »

Seeing that many find nameplates an important feature it clearly does matter to the gameplay. If it gives you an advantage in PvP or when grouping, even if it is made optional in the GUI and can be turned off, there will always be those who require you to use it to be at your best.

Even if it is implemented so that you control whether or not others can see your nameplate, there is likely even more cause for people to require you to turn it on while in a group. I just know that I personally do not want to use nameplates and I never want to be forced to turn them on to be effective in a team.

It doesn't give an inherent gameplay advantage, however it makes organization less frustrating and does allow well-organized players to play better in a similar fashion to any other piece of information (overhead health bars, for example, right now). There are a very large number of game-wide benefits that I outlined in the original post here, however, and there is no such thing as "forced" in any circumstance any more than addons, current overhead health bars, or other features can be "required" of you now. Ultimately you cannot regulate player behavior and it is even more unfair to demand that because you personally dislike a social and aesthetic feature it be denied to everyone to even be able to use at all for themselves.

As far as disabling your own name from others being able to be seen, you could claim the same of your health bar, your character, your spells, or anything right now. That's simply not practical or even good for an online game for people to be able to do. There's a limit to how "anonymous" you can truly be in a game with tens of thousands of people around you, and it would be no different in terms of you being as such compared to now by some people's arguments since we can already hover over and see your name. That point, as weak as it is, really would go both ways there . This is a massively multiplayer online game and while there are some allowances for "hiding" like the "disable whispers and showing on friends list" social mode, you can't expect to turn it into something it is not.

Some things just have too many benefits to really say that the minor number of edge cases like someone not wanting to be able to be seen at all would outweigh or even begin to list the scales away from them. Similar things could be argued of chat bubbles, overhead health bars, alliance war chevron indicators overhead, and addons period. Ultimately the decision has been made on those that they are good for the health of the game despite a few who would rather no one could use them. Yes, social "pressure" (quote-unquote, because I use the term rather loosely in a game) might form if you play with people who are not like-minded in gameplay style to yourself sometimes; in those cases there's no difference from now as the game exists, and you can't regulate control freaks and their ilk, nor should you base game design decisions around them. Thankfully they have no way to "force" you into anything now any more than they would have to "force" you into using any other UI feature you dislike, from addons to chat bubbles. The most they can do is tell you they do not want you in your group , as you are able to do the same with them if you don't like to play in whatever style someone else wants to and go make your own.

For the reasons in the OP that I went to some effort to list out concisely, nameplates really fall under that exact same umbrella. Preference options such as these enhance the game as a whole. The user interface is simply a presentation of information you already can see via numerous in-game methods, and is not the gameplay. Elder Scrolls Online's gameplay is defined by its ability system, the world design, classes, dungeons, Cyrodiil player versus player, crafting, and numerous other things. The UI is not the game, any more than it is for any other MMO.

Smiteye

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

@Attorneyatlawl @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

Swampster

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Arato wrote: »

Swampster wrote: »

Koopest wrote: »

nameplate is horrible. even if they introduce namplates which is able to be turned off, most ppl who doesn't like namplate is forced to turn them on when pve, pvp because it gives you huge advantage. chat bubble? it's okay because it's not that much impact on pve , pvp whether or not turning on. but nameplates? no

Please explain this HUGE advantage if for example it's implemented in such a way, that name plates are only visible for members of your own faction during PVP?

Or, they were no wider than the in current in game health bars?

When you have an Argonian, which a lore appropriate name might be Digs-Holes-To-Seek-Other-Side-Of-Nirn, you're not going to have it be the same width as current health bars.

OK, so you chose the obvious riposte.. I thought you might, one that is based on the flimsiest of arguments at best.. but on that point I'll give you the benefit of the doubt despite thinking it's an asinine position... so

... what of the other suggestion? Nameplates are only visible on your own faction whilst in PVP? What "massive" disadvantage does that represent?

Swampster

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

pirate3 wrote: »

Optional is optional, so it seems a little unfair to be against. Personally I love not seeing name tags. I really appreciate the minimalist ESO UI, and that mock-up with the name tags just looks so wrong to me. I wouldn't throw my toys if they introduced this, but I would never turn it on.

So why vote "No - They Shouldn't be present at all"?

Attorneyatlawl

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Swampster wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Swampster wrote: »

Koopest wrote: »

nameplate is horrible. even if they introduce namplates which is able to be turned off, most ppl who doesn't like namplate is forced to turn them on when pve, pvp because it gives you huge advantage. chat bubble? it's okay because it's not that much impact on pve , pvp whether or not turning on. but nameplates? no

Please explain this HUGE advantage if for example it's implemented in such a way, that name plates are only visible for members of your own faction during PVP?

Or, they were no wider than the in current in game health bars?

When you have an Argonian, which a lore appropriate name might be Digs-Holes-To-Seek-Other-Side-Of-Nirn, you're not going to have it be the same width as current health bars.

OK, so you chose the obvious reposte.. I thought you might, one that is based on the flimsiest of arguments at best.. but on that I'll give you the benefit of the doubt despite thinking it's an asinine postiion... so

... what of the other suggestion? Nameplates are only visible on your own faction whilst in PVP? What "massive" disadvantage does that represent?

And even then, why should they be the exact same width as current health bars? What is the harm if some people with super-long names (including myself with names like "Please Dont Nerf Me Srsly" and "Please Don't Nerf Me") extend a little further? Those who wouldn't want to see nameplates still, as suggested, would not have to. And looks-wise, it could still be compressed to a reasonably small width anyway for those of us who do want them.

You can't fix every edge case scenario of slight potential quibbles someone might have, but the benefits are pretty well-covered in this thread by now to the point where complaining a super-long name that we chose might extend 10 pixels further (of negligible concern in-game) seems to be picking on a speck of dust on a painting in terms of criticisms of optional nameplates.

Smiteye

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Smiteye wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

I'll just leave this here again in regard to attorney's comment once more.

Gigglesnort

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

As long as I can turn off chat bubbles, those things are annoying.

Arato

No - They shouldn't be present at all.

You're not seeing it. You keep saying what a disadvantage not having nameplates is and spouting off all the benefits, while being completely blind to the fact that that is the advantages of them over a player who does not have them turned off. If you consider not having nameplates to be a handicap, well then at least we are all using the same handicap. If it's "Optional" yes, quotation marks because it would never be truly optional, people will have to have them on and it'll be like any other charlie foxtrot of a UI mess.

I'd love to be able to turn this mess off in GW2, I really would, It's cluttered and ugly and doesn't really tell me anything I really need to know, but turning it off makes me more visible to them than they are visible to me, so I'm stuck using them.



In fact, let me point something out in this picture.

Notice how there isn't a player model for every nameplate, notice how some of the player models are very generic and lack the customized armor and weapons that the actual player is wearing. Yes see, the nameplates are such an advantage, that despite them creating lag, arenanet leaves them on, while instead disabling the character models to help with lag. You are fighting floating names, not characters. No immersion at all.

Nox_Aeterna

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Arato wrote: »

You're not seeing it. You keep saying what a disadvantage not having nameplates is and spouting off all the benefits, while being completely blind to the fact that that is the advantages of them over a player who does not have them turned off. If you consider not having nameplates to be a handicap, well then at least we are all using the same handicap. If it's "Optional" yes, quotation marks because it would never be truly optional, people will have to have them on and it'll be like any other charlie foxtrot of a UI mess.

I'd love to be able to turn this mess off in GW2, I really would, It's cluttered and ugly and doesn't really tell me anything I really need to know, but turning it off makes me more visible to them than they are visible to me, so I'm stuck using them.



In fact, let me point something out in this picture.

Notice how there isn't a player model for every nameplate, notice how some of the player models are very generic and lack the customized armor and weapons that the actual player is wearing. Yes see, the nameplates are such an advantage, that despite them creating lag, arenanet leaves them on, while instead disabling the character models to help with lag. You are fighting floating names, not characters. No immersion at all.

Again , this doesnt make sense , because it was already said multiple times.

You get that information from the health bar and the allience tag , as long as they dont make the name appear from further away then these 2 things , you would know the guy is your enemy or ally by the same time you do now.

And i can tell you , i have used these 2 features already to avoid death when the enemies are far away and i cant be sure by their chars look , i can by the health bar and tag.

Tandor

No - Neither chat bubbles or nameplates should be options allowed at all.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

there is no such thing as "forced" in any circumstance

You've obviously never been kicked from a group or guild because you didn't match up to the leader's requirements ! If it's announced that everyone will have their nameplates on at all times, then you either comply or quit the group/guild. I call that "forced".

Arsenic_Touch

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Tandor wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

there is no such thing as "forced" in any circumstance

You've obviously never been kicked from a group or guild because you didn't match up to the leader's requirements ! If it's announced that everyone will have their nameplates on at all times, then you either comply or quit the group/guild. I call that "forced".

That doesn't constitute force. They aren't holding a gun to your head, you have the choice to make your own group or guild. Force would only apply if there wasn't a toggle.

Sasky

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Chuggernaut wrote: »

Which guild would show up, or would you have the option to pick the guild you want to display?

Just like tabards here or the UI options in guild wars 2, you would choose what guild to represent at any given time and could change it anytime.

Or even have it tied directly to the tabard. If you're wearing a tabard, that guild's name shows up. If not, no guild name.

Tandor wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

there is no such thing as "forced" in any circumstance

You've obviously never been kicked from a group or guild because you didn't match up to the leader's requirements ! If it's announced that everyone will have their nameplates on at all times, then you either comply or quit the group/guild. I call that "forced".

If they're going to be that stuck-up over something like turning on/off nameplates, not sure I'd want to be in that guild in the first place.

Artis

No - Neither chat bubbles or nameplates should be options allowed at all.

Hear me out.

Neither chat bubbles nor nameplates should be in the game. It ruins the visuals of the game, first of all.
It's not very logical, too. Well, okay, I agree if you are listening to someone you are supposed to realize where the sound comes from. But nameplates?

1. Logics. A person's name is not written on him. You can't know it from afar.
2. Freedom. Namely because of what you said - and I refer to

-For PVP, it makes organization much more convenient and lets directions be called out such as "you two split off with Awesomeguy" and they would be able to see where Awesomeguy is easily as he moved off to the left and follow.

People will be FORCED to use this feature because of course someone will use it. And if you want to fight them - you will need the same level of organization. Well, I personally love the stylistics of the game atm. I love that in Cyrodiil I don't see all that cartoon-ish wow-style things. Also, go back to item 1. As a leader you shouldn't be able to say "Focus Awesomeguy, he's a healer" until you targeted that unnamed healer and saw his name. I mean, imagine you are there, in Cyro, yourself. How can you know everyone's names? If you were talking only about allies nameplates, then disregard the last few lines.

Arsenic_Touch

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Nameplates over someone's head are illogical but health bars aren't. Oh and nameplates that appear below the compass aren't illogical either... Gotcha. The whole "logical" argument falls apart before it gets started. It doesn't ruin anything when it's optional and once again for the upteenth time if something is optional you are not being forced to use it. Want your cherry picked immersion? you can have it.

Attorneyatlawl

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Arato wrote: »

You're not seeing it. You keep saying what a disadvantage not having nameplates is and spouting off all the benefits, while being completely blind to the fact that that is the advantages of them over a player who does not have them turned off. If you consider not having nameplates to be a handicap, well then at least we are all using the same handicap. If it's "Optional" yes, quotation marks because it would never be truly optional, people will have to have them on and it'll be like any other charlie foxtrot of a UI mess.

I'd love to be able to turn this mess off in GW2, I really would, It's cluttered and ugly and doesn't really tell me anything I really need to know, but turning it off makes me more visible to them than they are visible to me, so I'm stuck using them.

[*img]http://i.imgur.com/nvspqRl.jpg[/img]

In fact, let me point something out in this picture.

Notice how there isn't a player model for every nameplate, notice how some of the player models are very generic and lack the customized armor and weapons that the actual player is wearing. Yes see, the nameplates are such an advantage, that despite them creating lag, arenanet leaves them on, while instead disabling the character models to help with lag. You are fighting floating names, not characters. No immersion at all.

That has nothing to do with ESO and everything to do with arenanet's engine culling. It's a well known topic that is an issue with their game I'd imagine the same google search you used to pull up that picture would enlighten you as to that .

Attorneyatlawl

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Tandor wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

there is no such thing as "forced" in any circumstance

You've obviously never been kicked from a group or guild because you didn't match up to the leader's requirements ! If it's announced that everyone will have their nameplates on at all times, then you either comply or quit the group/guild. I call that "forced".

Nope, but I have chosen to leave one if I didn't want to play in a certain manner. I just didn't go complain on the forums about it because I can make my own groups in the same fashion they can . It sounds like you think it's fairer to force 11 other people in a raid to comply with YOUR preferred method instead? And deny tens of thousands the option to play how they enjoy.

ToneFish

No - They shouldn't be present at all.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ToneFish wrote: »

Seeing that many find nameplates an important feature it clearly does matter to the gameplay. If it gives you an advantage in PvP or when grouping, even if it is made optional in the GUI and can be turned off, there will always be those who require you to use it to be at your best.

Even if it is implemented so that you control whether or not others can see your nameplate, there is likely even more cause for people to require you to turn it on while in a group. I just know that I personally do not want to use nameplates and I never want to be forced to turn them on to be effective in a team.

It doesn't give an inherent gameplay advantage, however it makes organization less frustrating and does allow well-organized players to play better in a similar fashion to any other piece of information (overhead health bars, for example, right now).

First of all, thanks for your long reply. I do not agree with you on every point even though I understand those who would like to see nameplates.

I do feel that there is a contradiction in your opening statement, any feature that allows well-organized players to play better does provide gameplay advantages.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Ultimately you cannot regulate player behavior and it is even more unfair to demand that because you personally dislike a social and aesthetic feature it be denied to everyone to even be able to use at all for themselves.

It is true that you can not regulate play behavior but I think what many of those who are against nameplates are saying is that they rather not even have the discussion, feel pushed to use them or risk getting kicked from a group because of being too slow to react to names being called out.

I am fairly sure Zenimax put some real thought into it when they decided to stay true to the previous Elder Scrolls game in terms of interface. It is certainly not perfect but I personally am still glad that they dared it and did not try to use the same mold as everyone else.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Some things just have too many benefits to really say that the minor number of edge cases like someone not wanting to be able to be seen at all would outweigh or even begin to list the scales away from them.

Again, it is because of these benefits that some are against it. If there were no real benefits, I do not think anyone would be against having an option for it. Those who prefer an immerse experience with an Elder Scrolls type interface are scared that they will end up at a disadvantage.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The most they can do is tell you they do not want you in your group , as you are able to do the same with them if you don't like to play in whatever style someone else wants to and go make your own.

Joining a group and investing time with them just to get kicked at a later point because you prefer not to use nameplates is what worry some. Unless you know up front who you are playing with and what they expect there is a risk that it matters.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The user interface is simply a presentation of information you already can see via numerous in-game methods, and is not the gameplay. Elder Scrolls Online's gameplay is defined by its ability system, the world design, classes, dungeons, Cyrodiil player versus player, crafting, and numerous other things. The UI is not the game, any more than it is for any other MMO.

If the UI is not the game or the gameplay, then the game or gameplay should not suffer if it lacks nameplates.
Likely it matters to an extent and that is why UI features that provide gameplay advantages matter, both to those that want it and those who do not want it. Both sides are entitled to their opinions and have valid points for their perspective. At the end it is really up to Zenimax if they want to follow the mold or stick to the minimalist interfaces they have used for previous Elder Scrolls games.

Attorneyatlawl

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

@ToneFish‌,

Thanks for taking the time to read my argument for them. What I meant as far as an inherent gameplay advantage was in regards to a character impact. Nameplates in this regard provide better-presented information for players to use, in a similar fashion to health bar numbers through addons, or overhead health bars through the default UI that let you see enemy health at a glance even without them targeted. Nameplates in a similar regard would allow you to tell who's who more readily.

As far as groups kicking you, there's no reason you cannot make your own group. I feel that demanding no one have the option to play how they want but people who do not wish to play with nameplates is conversely far worse than some groups not wanting someone because they refuse to use nameplates when joining a group comprised of 11 other people (or similar number). They cannot force you to use anything including nameplates any more than they can now for damage meters, health bars, or even spec, but that doesn't mean they are forced to accept you either. This lets people play how they want and does not force it on anyone.

If joining a group, you will have normally communicated with the people in there first to determine that they are playing in a way you will enjoy and what they are doing (dungeon, raid, pvp, a quest, etc.). I do not go into random groups and start demanding they use damage meters, health bar numbers, and numerous other features or specs... instead, I ask what their playstyle is and decide for myself whether to join from there. The risk of joining a group and just leaving a few minutes later is no risk at all when there is no cost for having done so. It is similarly just as rude to demand that they use X Y and Z as it is for you to demand they do not use X Y and Z in their own group, let alone deny them the option to even do so when you have no obligation to compromise your UI if you don't like said features.

The gameplay can be impacted by the UI, but the gameplay is not the UI. Similarly a worn tire can impact the integrity of a car's drivability, but it is not the car itself or what differentiates it from any other car on the market. The quality of gameplay and socialization, metagame, etc. are all very negatively impacted for people including roleplayers, pvp'ers, and pve'rs, as outlined in the OP. Simply leaving the options out when it is never able to be forced upon anyone (no one can come force you to play in their group any more than you can force them to play in yours) creates a worse overall game for everyone.

What distinguishes elder scrolls online is NOT that it doesn't have a basic UI with normal, industry-standard features, in any positive way. That actually is a major problem that is well-defined by people everywhere as a huge negative for the game. What IS a positive differentiation is things like pve/pvp gear not having specific stats that lock them out from each activity, the ability system and 6-skill bar, action-based reticule combat, the graphics and environments, the lore, and the massive Alliance War in Cyrodiil.

While I can indeed agree that we disagree, I cannot agree that I feel your argument is valid objectively... I don't mean this in any kind of rude fashion and with all due respect, but the facts just don't bear it out. Any complaint you make in regards to why they shouldn't be optional revolves around people forcing you to play how they want, but they cannot do so. However, insisting that Zenimax does not allow nameplates or other UI features at all, is outright forcing your playstyle on everyone else.

rophez_ESO

Yes - Even if I don't like them, I can just turn them off anyway.

Nameplates would work fine and not ruin our scenery (like the GW2 picture posted above) if we just follow some simple rules:

1. Allow users to set the character limit, so I can truncate silly names down to 15 characters or so.
2. Only show nameplates of people who are within a rather short range of you - like the range you'd need to snipe someone 35ish meters or whatever.

Tandor

No - Neither chat bubbles or nameplates should be options allowed at all.

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

there is no such thing as "forced" in any circumstance

You've obviously never been kicked from a group or guild because you didn't match up to the leader's requirements ! If it's announced that everyone will have their nameplates on at all times, then you either comply or quit the group/guild. I call that "forced".

That doesn't constitute force. They aren't holding a gun to your head, you have the choice to make your own group or guild. Force would only apply if there wasn't a toggle.

By that logic no-one is forcing you to play the game, or even own a computer.

The fact remains that any feature that is optional in the sense of having a toggle is liable to be imposed on players who don't want to use it but who feel forced to do so by the requirements of those they play with. They are therefore entitled to oppose its introduction.