FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

I don't get this thread, or at least the title.
This has nothing to do with tanks doing their job, it's more about being paired with people who can't properly do their role. Which is equally frustrating for everyone, not just tanks. Tanks and DDs at least have some kind of power role when it comes to dungeons, healers are the ones who are really screwed if they have to play with noobs since they can't finish a boss nor take the aggro.

I'd think that most healers can easily pull half or more of the DPS they would if they were built for DPS. If that's not true with your exact default healing build, it should at least be true with minor changes that still leave you able to perform your most essential functions.

When it cones down to a healer giving consista t buffs to the group, with things like major courage, minor berserk, elemental drain, they should be pulling their weight with those buffs/debuffs alone.

Yeah a little tank appreciation. To any that have carried me through a dungeon, you are the real heroes! And a special gold star the the ones letting me actually listen to the dungeon quests and not running from fight to fight farming up equipment.

kichwas wrote: »

Gulnagel wrote: »

Here your jobs is to be a buff / debuff machine, and to sometimes hold aggro on some of the pull...

Sometimes? So sometimes just let the dps face roll it and die...yea, great thinking there.

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

I think it depends on the definition of a fake tank. Abysmal fake tanks that queue to DLC dungeons, can't dps, can't tank, can't even self heal, dies, dont res others, runs ahead, dies again, etc; no, just do not tank at all. In fact don't go into any dungeon if you do this.

But a fake tank in non-DLC dungeons that have good dps, have enough self heal and res others if need be, is not bad.

You highlight a very good point.

Yes, there is a BIG difference between "non vet" Undaunted and "vet" undaunted, but there is also a huge gap between "non-vet" and "non-vet-DLC".

I really find myself wishing there was an option to queue as:

Non-vet Base
Non-vet including DLC (or even Non Vet DLC just by itself)
Vet Base
Vet DLC

There is a godaweful skill gap there.

I wonder how many free ESO+ trial users got swallowed up by dungeons way over their head last week.

Now of course the option is there to queue for individual dungeons but I’ve waited over and hour or more than one occasion and have given up entirely on anything but random.

That said my first for PUG’s were in some of the most difficult content in the game which is why a few posts back I thanked the yanks for carrying me!

Gulnagel wrote: »

Where to start..

An MMO game is no longer a new concept, it's been around for years so you would think that most player by now know the basic foundations in mmo games, right? WRONG.

I used to main a healer a few years back but I couldnt take the pug-runs with such low dps, draging out time. So I made a dps myself and never looked back.
But I wanted to level a few more characters, and thougt I'll tank again (also mained tanks in other mmos). Now the nightmare begins, even in normal random dungeons dps is extremly low, people using ice staffs stealing aggro, normal dlc dungeons with a pug feel like the special olympics. This isn't fun at all. Can't be fun for the healer and can't be fun for the dps.

I don't get it, how can it be so hard to grasp simple rotation or the holy trinity of tank, healer and dps.

How do you tanks out there manage to keep your temper?

AND yes I know "don't pug then bla bla" but I'll say this there isn' t fewer tanks in this game because it's boring to tank there are however fewer tanks because pug-finder usually puts you in The special mmo olympics.

And I do try to help, explain mechanics, but it feels like talking to a wall sometimes.
I don't know how to solve this, I guess I needed to vent my frustration.

When running pugs I have a Templar tank that has:
- 34-38k resists
- 20.6k Max Health
- 30k+ DPS
- Extended Ritual, Remembrance, and Repentance for team heals, Vigor for self heal.
- I have Meditate and sword & board back-bar, so I have huge block mitigation and the ward for a bit extra temporary health.
- I taunt priority threats and burn mobs like it's nobodies business.

For those defending fake tanks and fake healers... you are actually making the game worse for new players. You do not give new players the chance to learn a role.

You are also destroying their time! Queue's don't move faster because someone fake tanked or fake healed. 99% of the time those are the cause of a run to fail. Making those who waited an hour in queue to get a dungeon, wait in queue again! On top of the bad dungeon experience they just had.

As I posted before, I often get thrown into a 'failed' run as a tank. About 50% of my runs. Meaning, fake tanking or fake healing does not work out well! It is just selfish and disrespectful to others. This is besides mentioning it is beyond selfish that you do not want to wait in queue for the role you actually are, and are willing to destroy another persons time. There is no way to justify this at all. This is also why I feel this should be a violation of the board rules, as you are instructing players to do something outside of how the game is meant to be played. With disastrous results for newer players or players who enjoy doing normals. This selfishness is harming the playerbase.

As a real tank I always have people whispering me to thank me, often get the comment "Finally a real tank!" as well. So there is your real result, despite of what you tell yourself to justify the selfishness.

PS: Hybrid tank/dps who can actually tank are not fake roles in my opinion. Though they are if they only think they can tank while they cannot!

Yeah pugging a dungeon on a tank is it's own form of hell, I will tank but I don't do it in group finder anymore. The lack of tanks isn't because it isn't fun, but because DPS makes the difference between a 2 hour long mind numbing run and a quick and easy 20 min run. good tanks and healers? Yeah it makes a run smoother... Good DPS? turns pretty much anything into a a cake walk. That's why I go DPS because me being good on dps is more likely to make a successful run than anything else. Obviously 12 man content can be a different story but for any group finder content you can be sure.

* Tanking isn't very popular because a good tank build with a decent health investment can not also do lots of DPS.
What that is concerned a healer can usually heal with 1 bar and do DPS on the other since spellpower actually buffs both.
It may be a reason there's so many fake tanks.

* Also mentioned: no indication of how hard a dungeon is.
There really should be a rating one day so people at least now what to expect
Like very easy / easy / moderate / hard / very hard
or
newcomer / adventurer / veteran / expert

The current system hardly says anything as some veteran dungeons are actually a lot easier than some normals.
Only thing you know now is that the vet version is tougher than the normal version.

LOL. Yep. How do I do it? Well, sometimes I PUG a Vet DLC dungeon just to see what happens while on my Tank.

One time I pugged Vet Fang Lair. Took about three hours and every player was replaced two times or more as they left the dungeon. Heck, when we got to the very first boss fight the two initial DPS we had both typed in Chat "Oh, it's this dungeon, I can't do this. Sorry!" and left group during the boss fight.

The Healer and myself beat it. Took a while but no deaths on that fight. Two more DPS enter the dungeon. And on and on. It wasn't so bad TBH. Most of the players had not done Fang Lair at that time and needed to learn it. Ended up with 2nd Healer (first one ran out of time) and third and fourth replacement DPS finishing it.

If you want to PUG Vet (normals are a joke) build your Tank to not rely on the Healer or DPS. Build it so it can survive and thrive in even the hardest dungeons on it's own. I think Necro's can do this and I know DK's can. Not sure about the other classes. I have seen a Sorc Tank do some pretty hard core stuff on it's own.

But as a Tank when I PUG I certainly don't expect whoever is in the group to be top tier DPS or Healer. Those expectations are just too high. Have patience and try conversing with them in Chat. If they don't respond in Chat then you most likely will have a big problem.

And always allot two or three hours to the Vet PUG run and have fun. Sometimes those that stick it out with you become great players and join your Guild and become friends in game. And it sets a great example of how we should all be dealing with each other to help learn the game and have fun.

Don't ever pug normal dlcs, seriously.

It's full of people that never do vet content, but normal dlcs are kinda like base game vets. So you'll encounter the worst group possible.

Pug dlcs on vet, most of the time only the people who are capable queue for them anyway, at least in my experience. I rarely encounter noobs in vet dlcs.

i pug veterans with my hybrid tank dps or heal dps. It works well because in four man content you can heal with 2-3 spells just fine, or tank with 2-3 spells just fine only u need more hp like 25-30k. The rest can go into dps. I do 25k-30k dps and i tank and heal good enough to carry the low pugs u talk about through the dungeons.

This may not be for everyone but I've had good luck with "partial" pugs.

And by this I mean that if I'm going to run something I ask in guild first and then just queue if all the roles aren't filled in a minute or two. Usually if someone says "yes" to running something in a guild chat, they know what they are doing. And if they don't they will say "I haven't run it, is that ok" or "I'm only cpxxx, is that a problem." I think this helps the pug experience overall because it's great to help new players or even carry them as they learn, but it is less frustrating for all involved if more than one person is doing all of the carrying.

And then the next time those inexperienced puggers queue, they've had a good experience and maybe learned a little something.

Obviously when pugging sometimes the point is none of your friends are around or want to do what you're doing, but I've found that those extra minutes asking in guild chat usually pay off if you're trying to avoid the worst of the worst experiences.

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

When running pugs I have a Templar tank that has:
- 34-38k resists
- 20.6k Max Health
- 30k+ DPS
- Extended Ritual, Remembrance, and Repentance for team heals, Vigor for self heal.
- I have Meditate and sword & board back-bar, so I have huge block mitigation and the ward for a bit extra temporary health.
- I taunt priority threats and burn mobs like it's nobodies business.

Any reason why you’re way over max resists? ~33k is cap and you literally can’t use more in PvE. You could spend that effort into more health, for example.