The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
I have a huge respect for tanks now
-
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭I have been main tanking since mid 2000 in WoW and always PUGGING. I have been Tanking since Beta and really only play tank. I've also ran PuG Normal trials, done all Vet Craglorn trials and dabbled in main tanking on Vet DLC Trials. To the OP who asked how we do it... I use rules, I stick to my rules.
#1. I don't put up with trolls or smart asses. I give the group a chance to remove the offender if not I leave. PERIOD. No matter what and that keeps me pretty sane.
#2. If the dps is low I mention, try not to be rude but I make it clear the dps is too low. I then see what the reaction is. If they get nasty refer to rule #1 - if they are apologetic then I will generally run them through and use a selfish set so that I do not die even if everyone else has died
#3. I move quickly, but if anyone pulls in front of me I point out it is slower if they open up aggro. If they get smart refer to rule #1
Remember as a tank in PUG queue you are the most important role, DPS are dime a dozen and therefore a smart alec DPS should always feel the wrath of a group kick or the pain of a group falling apart.
this is what all tanks ought to live buy in the group finder. life is too short not to do it this way.3 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Protossyder wrote: »
Why? Because it puts you to shame that the "tank" kills everything before you even drop your first AoE?
Well, yes, that can be annoying if I wasn't looking to just plow through the dungeon without having to do anything on my part. But what's far worse is when he doesn't kill everything before anyone else can get a shot off. That typically means the boss goes wild, wipes the group, and the so called tank goes on a rant about how everyone else sucks and has low DPS right before he ragequits."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."2 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What do you think is the best tank build to run for pugs? A more traditional build that boosts your dps with buffs.. or a build that can contribute dps itself and maybe make up for potentially bad pug dps?
The one that buffs the group, helps teammates stay alive, crowd controls and debuffs the bosses.
Tanks are not there to dps. If they do high dps, then they are fake tanks.
Edited by gatekeeper13 on May 26, 2020 9:44AM0 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »What do you think is the best tank build to run for pugs? A more traditional build that boosts your dps with buffs.. or a build that can contribute dps itself and maybe make up for potentially bad pug dps?
The one that buffs the group, helps teammates stay alive, crowd controls and debuffs the bosses.
Tanks are not there to dps. If they do high dps, then they are fake tanks.
You're right in theory in a perfect world where everyone knows what they are doing and has content-appropriate performance (basically guild groups). But in practice, when you're running PUGs, you have to compensate for a(ny) group's weaknesses if you want to get a completion. If the weakness is DDs dying by ignoring 1-shot mechanics, no amount of buffs and crowd control is going to save them.
If your goal is to educate people, sure, run a trial buff bot setup and leave the group when you get stuck, that'll surely teach them. But if your goal is completion, your success rate will be much higher with a hybrid build that is fully capable of performing the tank role in your target content, but can also provide damage and healing on demand if either is lacking.2 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
^^ Agreed!Protossyder wrote: »
Why? Because it puts you to shame that the "tank" kills everything before you even drop your first AoE?
Well, yes, that can be annoying if I wasn't looking to just plow through the dungeon without having to do anything on my part. But what's far worse is when he doesn't kill everything before anyone else can get a shot off. That typically means the boss goes wild, wipes the group, and the so called tank goes on a rant about how everyone else sucks and has low DPS right before he ragequits.
The thing is.... those that queue as fake tanks are generally terrible DD's as well. And they do not allow others to learn their roles, while wasting other player's time. Meaning, fake tanks are one of the main causes for bad DD's.
When tanking, DPS sometimes starts out terrible. Two bosses later, they are killing it! An opportunity a fake tank took away from the DD"s, as they had to run around to stay alive. Instead of being able to learn an optinal DPS style.2 -
Larcomar✭✭✭✭✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »What do you think is the best tank build to run for pugs? A more traditional build that boosts your dps with buffs.. or a build that can contribute dps itself and maybe make up for potentially bad pug dps?
The one that buffs the group, helps teammates stay alive, crowd controls and debuffs the bosses.
Tanks are not there to dps. If they do high dps, then they are fake tanks.
You're right in theory in a perfect world where everyone knows what they are doing and has content-appropriate performance (basically guild groups). But in practice, when you're running PUGs, you have to compensate for a(ny) group's weaknesses if you want to get a completion. If the weakness is DDs dying by ignoring 1-shot mechanics, no amount of buffs and crowd control is going to save them.
If your goal is to educate people, sure, run a trial buff bot setup and leave the group when you get stuck, that'll surely teach them. But if your goal is completion, your success rate will be much higher with a hybrid build that is fully capable of performing the tank role in your target content, but can also provide damage and healing on demand if either is lacking.
Pretty much this. I now have one proper tank and one pug tank set up for things like pugging RNDs or quickie normals. Ive learned the hard way that it's pointless going into a random normal with a traditional tank build and popping warhorns. You sometimes get a group with some high cp people doing their RNDs, but most of the time its lowbie players, the healer's maybe got one class heal, the two dps are doing maybe 5k dps each and everyones rocking random bits of armour and got 25k health. Lords warden, ebon and warhorns etc just don't help much there. You're a much better tank slapping on a damage set - I like grothdar + elfbane - and a healing set like leeching/baharas, and trying to do some dps while you tank0 -
Deter1UK✭✭✭✭✭Even if you are able to provide all these buffs with 100% uptime, it still doesn't add as much dps to group as if you just did straight dps. Healers should be doing dps in dungeons, buffing and healing is only needed in trials. Especially if your pug dungeon group dps is 4 digit lol. Your buffs would only add 1k dps lmao.
Except -
I'm running my first (ever) healer.
You don't learn healing by doing overland questing you get skill points
I have run a couple of normal dungeons now where, ok, the group maybe didn't really need me but I kept them at full health and buffed as best I could all the way through because -
If I don't learn now will you please volunteer to carry me through some Vet DLCs and a couple of Trials cos I really need the sets pretty please?
Sigh0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭When tanking, DPS sometimes starts out terrible. Two bosses later, they are killing it! An opportunity a fake tank took away from the DD"s, as they had to run around to stay alive. Instead of being able to learn an optinal DPS style.
That's a hard no. In 6 years in ESO I've yet to see that. I have however seen the exact opposite almost without fail, because bosses get progressively harder in dungeons. And if you can't parse well on the first boss that's a simple "tank and spank" , the probability of parsing better with the same gear and skills while also having to play extra boss mechanics is hovering at around 0%.
You want to learn to DPS, you read on ideal gear setups for your class/style and practice in front of a dummy. That's step 1. You want to DPS better on particular bosses/fights, you just play the bosses again and again (to eliminate mistakes) but that only works if you've already done step 1 and know how to DPS.EU | PC | AD0 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »What do you think is the best tank build to run for pugs? A more traditional build that boosts your dps with buffs.. or a build that can contribute dps itself and maybe make up for potentially bad pug dps?
The one that buffs the group, helps teammates stay alive, crowd controls and debuffs the bosses.
Tanks are not there to dps. If they do high dps, then they are fake tanks.
You're right in theory in a perfect world where everyone knows what they are doing and has content-appropriate performance (basically guild groups). But in practice, when you're running PUGs, you have to compensate for a(ny) group's weaknesses if you want to get a completion. If the weakness is DDs dying by ignoring 1-shot mechanics, no amount of buffs and crowd control is going to save them.
If your goal is to educate people, sure, run a trial buff bot setup and leave the group when you get stuck, that'll surely teach them. But if your goal is completion, your success rate will be much higher with a hybrid build that is fully capable of performing the tank role in your target content, but can also provide damage and healing on demand if either is lacking.
If the DD is ignoring 1-shot mechanics, then tank DPS wont complete dungeon either. What you are suggesting is altering roles during pug runs by having in mind that the DDs are gonna be new players that do less than 15k dps. That's not the case most of the time. Then lets turn the healer into a DD too and everyone add self-heals.
In 80% of pug runs I had, I got decent players that managed to do the basics at least. And the numerous buffs and debuffs I provided them with, helped the group way more than I would have by simply providing 20k dps extra.
Success comes by everyone doing his role right. If I wanna do vet DLC content, I wont go there with 2 DDs who do 12k dps each.Edited by gatekeeper13 on May 26, 2020 12:03PM0 -
Sange13✭✭✭VoidCommander wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »I don't get this thread, or at least the title.
This has nothing to do with tanks doing their job, it's more about being paired with people who can't properly do their role. Which is equally frustrating for everyone, not just tanks. Tanks and DDs at least have some kind of power role when it comes to dungeons, healers are the ones who are really screwed if they have to play with noobs since they can't finish a boss nor take the aggro.
I'd think that most healers can easily pull half or more of the DPS they would if they were built for DPS. If that's not true with your exact default healing build, it should at least be true with minor changes that still leave you able to perform your most essential functions.
When it cones down to a healer giving consista t buffs to the group, with things like major courage, minor berserk, elemental drain, they should be pulling their weight with those buffs/debuffs alone.
Even if you are able to provide all these buffs with 100% uptime, it still doesn't add as much dps to group as if you just did straight dps. Healers should be doing dps in dungeons, buffing and healing is only needed in trials. Especially if your pug dungeon group dps is 4 digit lol. Your buffs would only add 1k dps lmao.
The only way your buffs don't add a significant amount of dps is if they already do extremely low dps (like 10k or so). The buffs the healer provides are a force multiplier and if you have a group that can do 25k, your buffs should be able to take them up into the 30-35k range. If you're just trying to do dps without applying buffs/debuffs, you're not only cheating your group, but your own dps will be lower too.IGN: Sange-132 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VoidCommander wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »I don't get this thread, or at least the title.
This has nothing to do with tanks doing their job, it's more about being paired with people who can't properly do their role. Which is equally frustrating for everyone, not just tanks. Tanks and DDs at least have some kind of power role when it comes to dungeons, healers are the ones who are really screwed if they have to play with noobs since they can't finish a boss nor take the aggro.
I'd think that most healers can easily pull half or more of the DPS they would if they were built for DPS. If that's not true with your exact default healing build, it should at least be true with minor changes that still leave you able to perform your most essential functions.
When it cones down to a healer giving consista t buffs to the group, with things like major courage, minor berserk, elemental drain, they should be pulling their weight with those buffs/debuffs alone.
Even if you are able to provide all these buffs with 100% uptime, it still doesn't add as much dps to group as if you just did straight dps. Healers should be doing dps in dungeons, buffing and healing is only needed in trials. Especially if your pug dungeon group dps is 4 digit lol. Your buffs would only add 1k dps lmao.
The only way your buffs don't add a significant amount of dps is if they already do extremely low dps (like 10k or so). The buffs the healer provides are a force multiplier and if you have a group that can do 25k, your buffs should be able to take them up into the 30-35k range. If you're just trying to do dps without applying buffs/debuffs, you're not only cheating your group, but your own dps will be lower too.
This.
If you provide your group (as a tank) with Minor Courage, Major Breach/Fracture, Crusher and Alkosh debuff, the extra dps is huge, way higher than simply doing dps as a tank.
Edited by gatekeeper13 on May 26, 2020 12:01PM1 -
Eifleber✭✭✭✭✭
It's not that bad, usually I finish normal & vet dungeons with most pugs quite easily.Now the nightmare begins, even in normal random dungeons dps is extremly low, people using ice staffs stealing aggro, normal dlc dungeons with a pug feel like the special olympics. This isn't fun at all. Can't be fun for the healer and can't be fun for the dps.
I started doing dungeons tanking and at the moment I mainly heal.
Healers can have a dps backbar just in case the team needs a little 'push' as spell power, crit etc affects both damage and healing. In some rare cases I managed to do like 45% of the total damage output in some easy dungeons, as healer.
As tank you're far more at the mercy of your teams damage output. Because the thing with tanking is that you sacrifice quite a chunk of damage output for health and resistance.
So yeah, respect to the tanks in this game, especially those doing pugs!
❆Edited by Eifleber on May 26, 2020 12:05PM❆
Playing since dec 2019 | PC EU1 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Weird, maybe it's not the DD's at fault there...When tanking, DPS sometimes starts out terrible. Two bosses later, they are killing it! An opportunity a fake tank took away from the DD"s, as they had to run around to stay alive. Instead of being able to learn an optinal DPS style.
That's a hard no. In 6 years in ESO I've yet to see that. I have however seen the exact opposite almost without fail, because bosses get progressively harder in dungeons. And if you can't parse well on the first boss that's a simple "tank and spank" , the probability of parsing better with the same gear and skills while also having to play extra boss mechanics is hovering at around 0%.
You want to learn to DPS, you read on ideal gear setups for your class/style and practice in front of a dummy. That's step 1. You want to DPS better on particular bosses/fights, you just play the bosses again and again (to eliminate mistakes) but that only works if you've already done step 1 and know how to DPS.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Weird, maybe it's not the DD's at fault there...When tanking, DPS sometimes starts out terrible. Two bosses later, they are killing it! An opportunity a fake tank took away from the DD"s, as they had to run around to stay alive. Instead of being able to learn an optinal DPS style.
That's a hard no. In 6 years in ESO I've yet to see that. I have however seen the exact opposite almost without fail, because bosses get progressively harder in dungeons. And if you can't parse well on the first boss that's a simple "tank and spank" , the probability of parsing better with the same gear and skills while also having to play extra boss mechanics is hovering at around 0%.
You want to learn to DPS, you read on ideal gear setups for your class/style and practice in front of a dummy. That's step 1. You want to DPS better on particular bosses/fights, you just play the bosses again and again (to eliminate mistakes) but that only works if you've already done step 1 and know how to DPS.
No, it's pretty clear it's the DDs fault if they can't parse well on a boss with as many mechanics as a target dummy. The only weird thing here, is believing that DPS somehow magically improves over the course of a 20 min dungeon run while everything that affects DPS (gear, cp, skill level and group buffs) remains the same.
But hey, at least DDs shifting blame on tanks while unable to perform their own role well is as old as MMOs. Right?EU | PC | AD1 -
Skauron✭✭✭Only played since april 2nd, 2020 and my third character i levelled as a warden tank, and i'm doing ok. Really enjoying the class, and accept one reality in that my dps is very low compared to the 2h dps version of the same class (or dual wield if you choose to do that), but here I am 52k HP and sword and shield and hero ranked around 256 or so. Having a great game with him truth be told.
Whilst i can solo a good number of world bosses and dungeons etc, i am always happy for the help from any dps classes including healers if they feel they want to, and i work on one set theory, not everyone plays by the rules, and there will always be people who steal the aggro from you when tanking. As warden tank i have limited attacks which taunt, and i can promise you if you pull aggro i always attempt to get it back, but i've had more than a few fights now where someone has not only pulled the boss but no matter how many times i taunt that boss, he has no interest in me any more despite me dps'ing as well as taunting as best i can.
So don't be surprised as a dps class if you pull aggro that the tank may struggle to re-aqquire that boss at times, and your dps will suffer if the boss kills you
Meantime however, i'm having fun and just laugh when things go a bit south Champion level chars: Nord Warden (Tank):50 Khajiit Nightblade (stam dual blade):50 High Elf Necromancer (magicka dps):50 Dragonknight (Tank):50 Sorcerer Vampire: 50
Also levelling: Templar (dps)
Started playing ESO: April 4th0 -
Eifleber✭✭✭✭✭
I'm sure most casual players don' t even know how to find a target dummy.it's pretty clear it's the DDs fault if they can't parse well on a boss with as many mechanics as a target dummy.
The game isn' t exactly helping and supporting players to become decent at doing the dd role.
Finding and configuring craploads of addons isn' t as easy for everyone, I find it very annoying that basic stuff like that isn' t already incorporated into the game - after SIX years of existence! I'd say don' t blame the players, blame ZOS.
and if there were quests like
do 10k dps on target dummy A
do 20k dps on target dummy A
do 30k dps on target dummy A
.. and give examples of how it's being done (incl the silly animation cancel stuff) a lot more people may get a clue.
So no I don' t agree with you.❆
Playing since dec 2019 | PC EU1 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I was hinting at maybe you are not good on holding aggro, meaning the DD's have to run around. Massively lowering their DPS.
Weird, maybe it's not the DD's at fault there...When tanking, DPS sometimes starts out terrible. Two bosses later, they are killing it! An opportunity a fake tank took away from the DD"s, as they had to run around to stay alive. Instead of being able to learn an optinal DPS style.
That's a hard no. In 6 years in ESO I've yet to see that. I have however seen the exact opposite almost without fail, because bosses get progressively harder in dungeons. And if you can't parse well on the first boss that's a simple "tank and spank" , the probability of parsing better with the same gear and skills while also having to play extra boss mechanics is hovering at around 0%.
You want to learn to DPS, you read on ideal gear setups for your class/style and practice in front of a dummy. That's step 1. You want to DPS better on particular bosses/fights, you just play the bosses again and again (to eliminate mistakes) but that only works if you've already done step 1 and know how to DPS.
No, it's pretty clear it's the DDs fault if they can't parse well on a boss with as many mechanics as a target dummy. The only weird thing here, is believing that DPS somehow magically improves over the course of a 20 min dungeon run while everything that affects DPS (gear, cp, skill level and group buffs) remains the same.
But hey, at least DDs shifting blame on tanks while unable to perform their own role well is as old as MMOs. Right?
When the DD's can trust their tank to hold aggro, even on adds, they will be able to think about their rotation. And on how to improve their rotation. Meaning DPS will improve quickly. And for me, so far in almost all groups it has done exactly that(one or two exceptions).
Not saying the blame is on you, but there might be something else going on. Bad healing, players dying, bad tanking, etc. Low DPS is not always the DD's fault!0 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I play a lot with group tool. Mostly because the people on my friend list is very top players and I stopped playing some time ago so I just play time to time and don't want to bother them, they also mostly raids. So I do group tool np. I also tried healer and tank a bit, all though I am mostly dps. What I noticed in pug groups personally:
If you want to tank or heal, you should create a build that has some damage. I made a DK healer with heavy attacks and some proc sets with damage, and had maelstrom staff backbar. I did maybe 30-60k dps in aoe, and I don't remember but around 25k single target maybe 30k. It still was slow, and it wasn't fun to be a healer and still have 40% group dps. I did cast combat prayers on rotation, and had aether and horn etc btw. I just didnt have olorime or a healing monster set.
Again, it was still slow ish, but at least I managed to do all dungeons with builds like this.
The reason I tried healer and tanks for pug groups, is because it's easier to get a group with those roles compared to dd and I always farm gear to make new builds.PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends0 -
Paske✭✭✭✭I PUG on my tank from time to time.
Sometimes you get a group of 810 CP that is guild formed, they were missing a tank and simply qued. Chance happend and we met. The run is a breeze, they are well performing, I am more then capable tank. DLC dungeon goes without a hitch.
And then you get short side bus group that is unable to kill first boss in vWGT, because they lack CP, skill and gear to do so and is angry at me for leaving the group, some DM me with hate. Sometimes I try to help them and point them to Alcast / Dottz to give them idea of what a good build looks like. YOu dont have to copy it, but can get a good idea of what is needed. 9/10 times its FU answer and once in a while individual actually talks and makes rational decision to better them self instead of blaming others for poor performance.
On most veteran pledges, none DLC ones, it is easy going. I can self sustain so healer can throw some DPS as well and anyone above CP 160 will have it easy in there.
Simply people who dont even try not to suck are in majority and when you call them out they get offended. Because it is easier then trying to get better.0 -
Treb_U_Shae✭✭What do you think is the best tank build to run for pugs? A more traditional build that boosts your dps with buffs.. or a build that can contribute dps itself and maybe make up for potentially bad pug dps?
I'd say DPS buffing sets could always be an option, but never underestimate the power of a tank that stacks for their group. Killing all the things at once always = higher overall group DPS vs. the group focusing one thing at a time. I personally like the toolkits from DK, Warden, Nightblade, and Necro for tanking. Someone made a really, really great point earlier about resistances: anything over 33k is not going to further add to your actual resistances. A good check is to view stats buffed, and put anything over the 33k (buffed) into health, since some of the support tanks provide (like shields) may be scaled off of that resource. I personally don't spec my tanks for damage in case of an inexperienced group, but I do place my faith in mechanics, and don't mind explaining them to a group that's willing to learn. That's just great fun sharing a victory like that, in my opinion, and it certainly makes the experience more exciting overall.0 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭How do you tanks out there manage to keep your temper?
Sadly, just exactly what you said after this...refusing to pug. The only way to truly enjoy my leisure time and not have it turn into putting up with obnoxious people, which turns it into work, is to just not put myself into that position in the first place. I tried. I gave it quite a few tries. It was *never* okay, it was always a huge pain in the butt and I realized it was ridiculous of me to expect any better of people. So unfortunately I am adding to the dearth of tanks in the group finder because I am just not someone who can enjoy not enjoying something.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
How do you tanks out there manage to keep your temper?
They usually don't.
Though healers can be bad about it too - it's usually the tank who is the first to start whining and leave the group after an entitled rant when their vote kick doesn't succeed. And rarely is it justified.
That's one of the reasons I started tanking myself. I got tried of dealing with pampered tanks and their hissy fits because the group wasn't doing the same damage as their trial group.
That being said: if your group was struggling in a normal dungeon it must have been especially bad. So it sounds like your frustrations were probably justified.0 -
magus.septim✭✭✭I pug a tremendous amount of vet dungeons and do enjoy the challenge of carry some less experienced players.
If the group is any good, I will always walk them thru the mechanics. It can be painful but usually players are very grateful when we get to the end and like to add me as a friend. This is probably the best case scenario.
When the group is just not good enough (dps wise), I will tell them im doing a couple more attempts then leaving.
Surprisingly, this can work to make them get through the fight sometimes.
There is no shame in abandoning your group after trying to coach them and giving them a fair number of attempts, that's really the most you can do.
Other times when I don't want to carry, I will just silently leave the group, I don't like doing this, but it just needs to happen sometimes.1 -
Nyqwont✭✭I have a tank tank for running in actual groups, and a tank with decent dps for running pug dungeons (but I suck at making builds) and honestly wish I could find help in creating a better tank/dps... Which I know isn't a priority because tanks are meant to buff/debuff rather than dps in most content. That said, knowing I could pug a random and not take 10 minutes+ to down every boss would be very uplifting lol.
0 -
Nyqwont✭✭If you pug dungeons, it's best to adjust your build. Most tanks who complain about low dps are usually experienced tanks, done trials and etc. New, no cp tanks who still learning are not generally impatient. So if you are experienced player, why are you even tanking normal dungeons lol? And why are you going in there with vet trial setup so you cant do more than 3k dps? Put on damage set and slot inner fire, keep bosses still and do 90% of the dps. No problem. You are not fake tank, you just made some adjustments as you would for vet harder content as required. Even vet dlc dungeon bosses dont hit so hard that you need to have 40k+ hp and have full tank sets. I know it's not your job but fo some damage if you find pugs too slow. You can easily tank any vet dlc dungeon with 30k hp and 1 dps set and do 20-25k dps. And when I say adjust I dont mean change cp or attributes. Just shuffle some gear, skills and food. If you use 1 setup for all the content, you will get frustrated.
Only people who are not that great themselves seem to complain the most.
My other comment was literally saying how as a player who's not great at builds I find it hard to make one (gear/skills) that is still tanky but can dps as well. I've tried combining dps/tank builds for classes but they don't work well.
Any chance you could list some sets/skills that work for you? (other than inner fire which you already did).
Would be really helpful...0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭slettieri204ub17_ESO wrote: »I pug a tremendous amount of vet dungeons and do enjoy the challenge of carry some less experienced players.
If the group is any good, I will always walk them thru the mechanics. It can be painful but usually players are very grateful when we get to the end and like to add me as a friend. This is probably the best case scenario.
When the group is just not good enough (dps wise), I will tell them im doing a couple more attempts then leaving.
Surprisingly, this can work to make them get through the fight sometimes.
There is no shame in abandoning your group after trying to coach them and giving them a fair number of attempts, that's really the most you can do.
Other times when I don't want to carry, I will just silently leave the group, I don't like doing this, but it just needs to happen sometimes.
That's what I do.
If the fight looks hopeless to me, I use the three strike rule, then head out. There is no reason to berate people.0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭red circle that slowly expanding warning of incoming aoe attacks
Hey, thanks for saying this. Gives me something more to watch for and call out to the team!Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
Sange13✭✭✭
Weird, maybe it's not the DD's at fault there...When tanking, DPS sometimes starts out terrible. Two bosses later, they are killing it! An opportunity a fake tank took away from the DD"s, as they had to run around to stay alive. Instead of being able to learn an optinal DPS style.
That's a hard no. In 6 years in ESO I've yet to see that. I have however seen the exact opposite almost without fail, because bosses get progressively harder in dungeons. And if you can't parse well on the first boss that's a simple "tank and spank" , the probability of parsing better with the same gear and skills while also having to play extra boss mechanics is hovering at around 0%.
You want to learn to DPS, you read on ideal gear setups for your class/style and practice in front of a dummy. That's step 1. You want to DPS better on particular bosses/fights, you just play the bosses again and again (to eliminate mistakes) but that only works if you've already done step 1 and know how to DPS.
No, it's pretty clear it's the DDs fault if they can't parse well on a boss with as many mechanics as a target dummy. The only weird thing here, is believing that DPS somehow magically improves over the course of a 20 min dungeon run while everything that affects DPS (gear, cp, skill level and group buffs) remains the same.
But hey, at least DDs shifting blame on tanks while unable to perform their own role well is as old as MMOs. Right?
I haven't seen groups that struggle on the first boss but totally slay as it progresses either. That's the opposite of reality. Whatever kinds of drugs that guy is on to even assert such a thing... I'd like the contact info for his dealer.IGN: Sange-130 -
Rovaeden✭✭✭As an 810 CP with 11 toons, most of them I have tanked on, I can say I feel your pain and asked many of the same questions over the years.
A few points I can offer.
1) Normal dungeon runs are trivially easy. You can do most of them with 4 dps. If you are planning to pug tank a random normal, expect to get a derp group and just run a slightly tanky damage dealer build. You want to be able to taunt the boss, aoe down trash and heal yourself should you need to because the dps are dying in red circles or off licking windows somewhere.
-DO NOT- expect to actually be able to learn anything or practice tactics or mechanics in a random normal. If you want to do that, you need a close group of friends or guildies or at least people who agree ahead of time to follow your instruction as you, as the tank, LEAD the group... ya know, kinda like the role is supposed to do.
If you go into a random normal with this understanding then you can just ignore the bad and zerg to the finish. Daily random complete... woo. so exciting.
If all else fails, bail. Its just not worth your time or frustration. You are a tank. You get instant queues. On the rare occasion you get someone with a pulse but no clue what they are doing but are willing to learn, send them to google and offer to help them after they have done some reading. That way you don't have to type a book, they are forced to prove their commitment to learning and if they do come back to you after doing their homework, you can answer direct, fine tuned questions and maybe even now have the start of your very own close knit dungeon group! WIN!
2) For Vet random dungeons, it is a little more nuanced.
Vet dungeons actually require a group with proper roles, tactics and cohesion. The problem is that too many players have learned "how to dungeon" by being bad in normals.
You have to read the group you get stuck with and decide.
Do you stay to tank, teach or argue?
Do you bail early or try to vote kick?
Do you just not tank Vet randoms and only tank guild runs (my personal solution)?
I was going to add more detail here and explain why I say this is more nuanced, but ultimately it just comes down to stay, leave, or don't bother.
Other than all of this is the biggest problem with being a Tank in ESO is the game itself.
The tanking / aggro mechanics suck!
Tanks do not have any AOE taunts which new players, and even some vets, seem to not understand or acknowledge!
Single target taunts are unreliable because so many bosses either ignore taunt mechanics altogether or have de-taunt mechanics built into the fight, so you end up just running around like a pointless no-dps waste of space stabbing a huge monster who is ignoring you and killing the crap dps who is standing in the fire screaming at you, the tank to do your job and taunt the untauntable thing!
Additionally, the game has no actual aggro table like WoW does for instance.
Instead any given mob has a "Who hit me first / who hit me last" memory with about 5 - 7 seconds of attention span.
This is why, as a tank, you can pull and have all the mobs charge the healer who tried to pre-hot the group. The heal tics count as, "hit me first" and the healer has 5 - 7 seconds of aggro to try to survive unless the tank can use a single target taunt on each and every aggro mob in time.
Dumb.
This is why I run with guild groups who all know to hold their actions until i have established control of the heavy hitters in the given encounter.
1