PTS Update 25 - Feedback Thread for Battlegrounds Solo Queuing

xWarbrain · January 2020

I am 100% in favor of this change to solo queue only.

I'd like to see the leaderboards also display stats of players - Games played, kills/deaths/assists, Win/Loss, healing.

AhPook_Is_Here · January 2020

I think the solo queue is going to bring more interest to BGs. The solo queue should stay a solo queue and not be a liquidity source for group play.

As people get better in pug games they might develop a stronger interest for BGs and develop friendships, which I think should justify a group queue where people who want to team with friends can play against other teamed players. How comprehensive this group queue should be is another issue, it would be nice to have a kind of custom lobby where you could form your own matches for a game external ladder, it would be nice to have a system that matched 4's and 3's with other 4's and 3's and 2's only with other 2's even in games that started with only 2*3. There could be a series of toggles in the group queue to allow people to choose what liquidity pools to participate in.

Duos should not participate in the solo queue, otherwise by definition it isn't a solo queue. The degree of advantage or disadvantage by being muddled into solo or group queue is irrelevant, people who want to solo queue want to play with others on the same playing field. If you can bring your edge in there, there is no measure any longer of individual ability and you end back up in the same place with liquidity vanishing up the MMR.

yodased · January 2020

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

The "premades" or the 4 ransoms that stay together and do objectives and fight together are actually playing the mode correctly.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but just to be clear there is no correct way to play a videogame. If it was intended for ONLY groups to be available in BGs then that would be how it was set up.

If it was intended for ONLY solo people to be in BGs then that, oh wait.

Sandman929 · January 2020

I think most people would like depth in the Battlegrounds system. Split Solo and group queues would be nice. A lobby for custom matchmaking would be nice. Flexible battles (4v4, 12v12, 8v8, etc) would be nice. However, ZOS has opted to invest minimally in the Battlegrounds function by hijacking the existing LFG system and just making maps for inflexible 4v4v4's.
In that system I think the most attractive option is solo only queuing for the sake of drawing players in for quick fights.

thadjarvis · January 2020

May we be granted have the ability to create our own BG instances if solo queue is here to stay?

Group finder is indeed a significant convenience, but it's not (wasn't in past) absolutely essential. If we have to, we can self-organize and "walk-in" similarly to dungeon and trials.

iCaliban · January 2020

thadjarvis wrote: »

May we be granted have the ability to create our own BG instances if solo queue is here to stay?

Group finder is indeed a significant convenience, but it's not (wasn't in past) absolutely essential. If we have to, we can self-organize and "walk-in" similarly to dungeon and trials.

A hundred times this. And the system doesnt need rewards enabled. There needs to be a system for group higher level play.

ZOS_Mika · January 2020

Greetings,

We have recently removed some rude and baiting comments from this thread. Please keep in mind that while it is fine to have a difference of opinion, name calling and rude comments are not in the spirit of our community. We ask that you keep this in mind as this thread moves forward.

MrSinister213 · January 2020

ZOS rarely makes good decisions, but this is single handedly one of the best decisions in any PvP game. Huge props to ZOS for making this decision. Gaming communities in games like Apex Legends, Fortnite, etc have asked for solo only queueing too, but not one other game has implemented it, despite the obvious advantages it has for the majority of the player base.

Great job for once ZOS and this will bring me back to ESO, although I will most likely leave immediately do to the baddie tank meta.

If you are in a stacked premade, go to Cyrodil and challenge yourself for once, BGs are supposed to be ESOs small scale PvP. I can't wait to play ESO tbh, something I havent said in years.

mav1234 · January 2020

thadjarvis wrote: »

May we be granted have the ability to create our own BG instances if solo queue is here to stay?

Group finder is indeed a significant convenience, but it's not (wasn't in past) absolutely essential. If we have to, we can self-organize and "walk-in" similarly to dungeon and trials.

Although this is better than solo-queue alone, some of us would like to be able to have a "finder" since we don't necessarily know how to find other groups, and some of us would like to just duo queue and now do 4 person groups all the time.

But it is very hard to offer more feedback without, as @Joy_Division said earlier, more parameters on what is and isn't possible, as well as the longer-term vision and goals for BGs and for this change from the status quo.

Kidgangster101 · January 2020

MrSinister213 wrote: »

ZOS rarely makes good decisions, but this is single handedly one of the best decisions in any PvP game. Huge props to ZOS for making this decision. Gaming communities in games like Apex Legends, Fortnite, etc have asked for solo only queueing too, but not one other game has implemented it, despite the obvious advantages it has for the majority of the player base.

Great job for once ZOS and this will bring me back to ESO, although I will most likely leave immediately do to the baddie tank meta.

If you are in a stacked premade, go to Cyrodil and challenge yourself for once, BGs are supposed to be ESOs small scale PvP. I can't wait to play ESO tbh, something I havent said in years.

@MrSinister213
Small scale pvp is BG that shouldn't meant groups are not allowed. Hence in BG it is 4 people per team (small scale).

4-5 skilled players can beat a zerg with lots of communication, but to say 4 people isn't small scale is wrong. You said it yourself no other game has made a solo que and that is because all games are team modes when it pvp. If they just put a 1v1 mode in BG that would be for solo players but the fact they didn't means teams should be allowed to form however they want weather it be 1,2,3, or 4 players.

Comparing any mode in pvp in this game simply is just wrong.

Bg- 4v4v4 with objectives small scale pvp with shorter times in between matches where you are in 1 zone and everyone fights to complete objectives of the match.

IC- this place isn't really great at pvp. Once and a while you will see non nb to have huge fights (but npc mobs are there to get in the way creating distractions for the player that has their attention making it not a fair fight). This place is usually filled with gank blades trying to steal telvar.

Cyrodil- huge scale pvp. A zone that lags often and more about zerg vs zerg. Strategy here is to take over keeps using seige. Sometimes it has long gaps between fights (that you only see in BG while waiting for a new match to que). Sometimes you get spies that tell your opponent where people are not allowing a fair fight. Sometimes there is not enough of your faction on or not enough people care about specific spots meaning you can be alone in a keep with 30+ people.

Please stop saying go to cyrodil with 4 people in a group because it is way harder to do cyrodil severely out numbered for most people. And the big difference is sometimes a BG deathmatch where you just fight us what people want because in cyrodil you don't have a deathmatch because guards/other players get in the way.

Game modes that are "team based" that should require "communication" to fully succeed should not be punished in a MMO just because "solo players" refuse to be part of a team. When a "solo player" ques they know they are accepting fate that they might run j to a duo, trio, or a full premade.

MicahMahaffey · January 2020

Just add incentives for queuing with a friend, maybe 20% more AP?

Or add more unlockable collectibles to BGs.

Add a new skin or maybe a mount as an unlockable for playing in a specific amount of games.

Add new gear?

Pretty much just about anything would be better than a solo only queue.

Make a ranked queue with a leaderboard like present, but have this competitive queue separate from the solo queue.

In the ranked queue it allows grouping. Even as a mostly solo player this is where Id play most of the time.

Add incentive to the ranked queue like unlockables or new battleground single piece set items. Or introduce seasons with rewards.

You can easily increase player involvement without ruining BGs for current players

Lucious90 · January 2020

Ill run BGs while im in que for Cyrodiil which is where I can see myself spending my days online if this goes live but the fact I cant group up with the guys I regularly play with is disheartening in a group game.

Please be a bit more specific in regards to your plan here ZoS, is this for reworking ques? Is this to work out and test a proper MMR system?

zekeElite · January 2020

What’s that you say... competitive, balanced, PVP for individual players.... give me

mav1234 · January 2020

I wanted to briefly touch on "fairness" and "balanced" that keeps getting brought up in regards to this change. In reality, removing 4 player premades certainly does give "randoms" a better chance against one another, but this is different than making a fair and balanced game.

For instance, randomly some teams will get a healer, others will not. Teams with healers will perform extremely well relative to this that don't. Team composition, ability to coordinate with other people, builds, stats, passives, all contribute to make this game unfair in different dimensions; while solo queues may make you less likely to face certain builds or coordination levels, it will not eliminate them entirely.

And, as Mursie and others have said, quite a bit can grow from a game and community that actually encourages organized play. This is not to say I think 4 player premades should exist in the same queue as singles or duos; rather, I think that ZOS should seek to support that kind of playstyle, too. And it is a bad idea to do the proposed change without another opportunity for group play in instances, as it WILL drive some players away. Having access to a group queue is not going to make ANY players refuse to BG at all, while having a queue that is ONLY singles may, or having a queue (as it is now) that allows ALL team sizes may.

If we're going all in on an experiment on a live server, why not run with solo and duos in one queue, and 4 mans in another? 4 mans may have a long wait, but then again, that seems like it is an OK thing given they already have to wait 45 minutes on live sometimes and are willing to there. Give them a separate leaderboard and I wouldn't be surprised if more people queued for it.

edit: total aside, but this thread seems to not be properly updating its position on the PTS forums for me... it seems to be stuck in yesterday. weird forum bug, haha.

Lucious90 · January 2020

As said above this does NOTHIING for balance, as the game is still subject to the current stats of every ability race etc, there is always a BiS meta. Now it does add fairness as stated above BUT at what cost? Lets say ZoS only implements 1 que

If premades are as rampant as people are saying dont you think that eliminating the ability for guys to group up with severely limit and even lengthen the que times for BGs, on an already sparse population pool? before you say what about duos with solos. Dont you think duos will have the same impact as premades? You get a team with 2 guys working together they can still dominate the BG and will. turn it into solos you lose any form of competitveness and it turns into who has the highest K/D COD style *** measuring.

Also if turning BGs into a solo Slaughter fest is more competitive why have them grouped in teams?

PhoenixGrey · January 2020

This is probably the best BG change ever since its inception.

NaomiHutt · January 2020

Best change for solo player's maybe?? But this is an MMO, the idea of not being able to group with my partner is just ridiculous.

The only reason we play this game is because we can play along side one and other.

Basically with this new change they are punishing people who want to play along side friends or loved ones.

This is not the best change ever as this is NOT a solo player game.

mav1234 · January 2020

is this thread stuck on second page no matter when new posts were made for anyone else, or am I experiencing some weird bug-time-warp?

CalicoJack6 · January 2020

This is the change i have been waiting for, the premades is the thing that have destroyed this gamemode for a long time, sure i don´t mind facing a group now and then but when it´s just premade after premade for a solo player like myself it´s out right garbage..

Solo-queing BG is among the best things this game offers, 4 random people just gonna have to make it work together. Sometime you win, sometimes you lose but the fun is there in every match. No one, even the pug-stomper teams, can enjoy themselves when they face groups with 2 healbots and 2 tank-dmg builds that wear sets that buff each other in 3 out of 5 matches.. If anyone wanted that they could just run in the ballgroups you see in Cyro every now and then.

However, i understand the ones that feel robbed by Zos because of this change, and maybe there should be separate ques for both solo and group, but this premade-stomp thing has been an issue for quite a while and i feel this change will make BGs better than it has been for a long time.

Anyway, i would hate to see it go back to what it has been so i am 100% supporting this change!

Olupajmibanan · January 2020

mav1234 wrote: »

is this thread stuck on second page no matter when new posts were made for anyone else, or am I experiencing some weird bug-time-warp?

God thanks. I thought I am the only one noticing that. Suspicious, isn't it?

Gravord · January 2020

As i wrote in another topic before it was shut down, fixing and improving Bgs would be very easy:

3 types of q for Battlegrounds:
1. Solo q only, fast matches
2. Any group size q, slightly slower matches, teams of 2-3-4 take priority and solo players filling up the gaps to complete full 4 man setup.
3. Premade vs premade in 4vs4 arena, deathmatch only. Slowest pop rate but highest competition level. Could be additionally implemented with option of guild vs guild challenge as many other games have.

Solo player can q for nr 1 or 2 or both to speed up your q.
Group of 2-3 can choose only option 2.
Full premade option 2 and 3 but with 3 always taking priority to pop if theres another 4 man in q.

Simple, effective, not penalizing ppl putting effort to organize themselves in a multiplayer game yet giving solo q fair playing field with 2 options to choose from.

If current change on PTS goes live it will be disaster to BGs. They will experience population boon, for a week tops, and it will quickly dissapear as players who are not so fond of Bgs in the first place will once again rediscover its not their thing and theres no premades left to blame. In the same time ppl who were putting solid hours into this type of content will reduce their playtime or quit entirely as they wont be able q with their friends, family or guild mates any longer. Keep in mind their are entire guilds out there whose sole purpose is BG activity.
On the other hand, my way of changing BG q would greatly increase its activity. Super fast solo pops for solo games only, quite fast games for any group size and something ESO really need - official 4vs4 fights on top level.

Ragnaroek93 · January 2020

Why don't they just implement a proper MMR system (something which isn't based on games played only)? It can be even a hidden MMR system and if you choose to queue with premades you will get queued against either another premade or against random people who have a much higher MMR than your team has. This would fix the premade issues except for the highest MMR players but people at this point do usually already have a premade group or at least can deal with the issue better.

I'm most of the time queuing solo (well I don't queue at all right now because I haven't played the game since last PTS) and I can agree that a change needs to happen. Losing half of the games already in the loading screen because you didn't queue up as a premade is dumb. But this is kinda the worst solution which they can come up with. Even seperating solo and premade queue would have been a better solution.

The biggest problem is how ZOS ignored BGs for such a long time tho. They said that they want them to be fun instead of being super competitive. Well guess what, people took them competitive and every casuals who just "queued for fun" did quit a long time ago. They would have been fun with a proper matchmaking, that's why highly competitive games are fun (even for casuals) because there's a matchmaking which prevents people from unbalanced matchups for most of the time. But I guess that ship has sailed with how few people are left playing BGs. I'm frustrated how they waste ressources on some weird modes like crazy ball or mad king instead of a proper PvP experience.

Gravord · January 2020

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

is this thread stuck on second page no matter when new posts were made for anyone else, or am I experiencing some weird bug-time-warp?

God thanks. I thought I am the only one noticing that. Suspicious, isn't it?

And same for me, apparently Bg feedback is not welcome on first page...

Olupajmibanan · January 2020

Since this thread is plagued by some weird bug and can't appear on the first page anymore, I've created this to bypass the bug:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509884/link-to-pts-update-25-feedback-thread-for-battlegrounds-solo-queuing/

Gravord · January 2020

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Fix to the thread would be most aprieciated.

mursie · January 2020

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

mursie
Similar issue like Alcast, I feel you are pushing your personal agenda a lot more than being focused on the overall well-being of the BG communities. You stated several times on your stream that the social factor of streaming - to share YOUR gameplay experience with somewhat like-minded individuals, to talk to them, etc. - is one of the main factors motivating you to still play. The average non-streaming (BG-) player gets all of that interaction via grouping and chatting with friends, making builds together, testing them in team envrionment and so on, all of that via ingame tools.
You are not losing much when the "experiment" will go live. Most of us bg-enthusiasts lose our entire, naturally grown ecosystem. We are losing the social aspect that motivated us to keep playing.

looking for balance in game is #1 priority. premades vs pugs is not balance. it doesn't help anyone and it doesn't promote growth for pvp in this game.

if you want to premade, the game still offers a variety of ways to do that while still preserving some balance due to the unstructured nature of cyrodiil and IC pvp.

I want a group v group que to be created. that should exist and i hope zos does it.

Urvoth · January 2020

I'm really not sure how zos can possibly think it's a good idea to take away a gamemode functionality that has been a primary feature of PvP gameplay for nearly 3 years.

This is not the way to bring players back to BGs or encourage more. Yes, premades pugstomping a bunch of solo queuers is a problem, but there are far better ways to fix that, and a lot of the time people use the premade excuse when they're just playing against better players who stick together. I've been whispered more times than I can count complaining about me premading when I'm solo queue and just have good teammates who stick together.

Also, it's pretty rare for premades to actually run premade setups and most of the time it's just 4 players running solo queue builds in comms together, which although grants an advantage, it can be negligible depending on the coordination of the other teams.

There is no added competitiveness from solo queue only, if anything it removes the competitiveness of premade vs premade games, which are far sweatier and more tryhard than any solo queue experience. This change takes away the possibility of any GvG or premade vs premade games, tournaments, beef, etc, and as someone who has played high MMR BGs as a primary focus in the game for years, removing that possibility also destroys a lot of the activities and reasons many high MMR players still play and why there are even BG guilds in the first place.

High MMR guilds regularly run 4v4v4 premade games, as well as tournaments and organized premade queue snipes. Nearly every high MMR player on PC NA that plays ESO regularly is in at least one of these guilds and participates/has participated in those type of activities. Removing groups from BGs kills that entire segment of the BG community, which also happens to be the most active, interactive, new player friendly(adding/recruiting new high MMR players to play with), and cares deeply about the future of the game. Everyone knows each other and that community aspect is a primary positive benefit of the current system.

Cyrodiil/IC are not viable replacements for BG grouping. They offer inconsistent and non-structured gameplay options, with virtually 0 guild agency and more fights vs random bots than actual good players. Those gamemodes are open world done poorly, and do not appeal to a lot of the regular BG players, as they want something more regular, consistent, easy to start, structured, and with a solid, measurable outcome.

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

This is probably the best BG change ever since its inception.

It certainly is not, and for someone who has said before that they like soloing vs premades because it's more of a personal challenge, I find it interesting that you should say this. 4v4v4s structurally is a better gamemode for solo queue since the three team system doesn't integrate well into group vs group gameplay, but until zos actually adds something logical like 6v6s, taking away grouping is only a net negative change. Aside from true premades and guilds being unable to play, all the duo queuers and casuals wanting to queue with their buddies are also hurt by this change, and for many of those players being able to play together is more important than playing BGs.

MicahMahaffey · January 2020

CalicoJack6 wrote: »

This is the change i have been waiting for, the premades is the thing that have destroyed this gamemode for a long time, sure i don´t mind facing a group now and then but when it´s just premade after premade for a solo player like myself it´s out right garbage..

Solo-queing BG is among the best things this game offers, 4 random people just gonna have to make it work together. Sometime you win, sometimes you lose but the fun is there in every match. No one, even the pug-stomper teams, can enjoy themselves when they face groups with 2 healbots and 2 tank-dmg builds that wear sets that buff each other in 3 out of 5 matches.. If anyone wanted that they could just run in the ballgroups you see in Cyro every now and then.

However, i understand the ones that feel robbed by Zos because of this change, and maybe there should be separate ques for both solo and group, but this premade-stomp thing has been an issue for quite a while and i feel this change will make BGs better than it has been for a long time.

Anyway, i would hate to see it go back to what it has been so i am 100% supporting this change!

You'll still get unkillable healbots in a solo queue. You'll still get teams randomly paired with 2 healers or a 4 man tank team.

Solo queuing won't fix anything.

Pre mades are not as bad as you think, most of the time pre mades are actually just random players who are either skilled or good at communicating.

I've been accused of being in a pre made like 4 times over the past 2 days. I've only soloed queued. All my teammates were random, we just understood how to play.

Pre mades are not as common as they're led on to be. Sometimes you just gotta get good.

Even being stomped by pre mades every now and then is better than losing the ability to play with friends every now and then.

This is an MMO.. I feel like asking strickly for a solo queue just because you're a solo player is a little unreasonable.

I play ESO because it allows me to play with friends. Even as a mostly solo player, I can see how baffling this proposition is.

D3N7157 · January 2020

PLEASE ZOS keeep this change, finally the BGs are going to be as they should always have been - fair for everyone that presses the queue button no more getting farmed by premades finally

Strider__Roshin · January 2020

This is a wonderful change. Obviously having solo and group queues would be better, but if I had to choose one way or the other it would definitely be solo only. The worst part about BGs is fighting premade groups as a solo player.