Sloads: The Death of Build Diversity

The_Protagonist · July 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Vitaely wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can we get an update on this please?

I don't think we got any changes to Sloads on this weeks patch.

If it wasn’t this week it likely won’t be until the next DLC. So get ready for a couple more months of this. ZOS has barely fixed anything since Summerset, I don’t think it’s gonna be a good overall year for the health of the game. I’m cancelling my sub again until I see them start to take it seriously. They’re way to slow with needed fixes.

You know that pro Sload team can also say that they will cancel their sub if the set is nerfed, we must be careful how we go about this business.

In all probability the Devs are working on the upcoming DLCs and crown store fluff, we want our request to be processed in a way that is beneficial and not make people ignore the issue by being a cry baby about it.

It’s not just Sloads. It’s sprint bug, disappearing DBs, Artaeum broth still bugged, Cyro walls still screwy, still large amount of random enviro damage in BGs for no reason, the BGs MMR is awful, lethal arrow is still causing huge desyncs, defile is still OP, the list just keeps growing. They promised a lot of combat balance and fixes with Summerset and way under delivered. We saw them directly take back their statement that balance changes were coming. It’s fine I do this every so often just so I don’t mistakenly pay again. I have three months left, I’ll see whether what happens with the next DLC, and go from there. But my days of pre-orders and consistently subbing are over. From now on they step up and bring improvements and then I pay for it, no the other way around.

I agree with that.

Stratforge · July 2018

ItsNebula wrote: »

Am i the only player who doesnt cry about Sloads? I main a MagSorc, 15k HP in PvP, i rely on shields to stay alive. I can have multiple stacks of Sloads on me while 1vXing, but it hardly affects me. Only time ive struggled is when i also have hard Defiles on me. Personally, it sounds like a L2P issue, as me, and the 3 others i run with have no problems fighting against Sloads user. 80% of the time, the Sload user is bad, and can be easily killed.. problem solved.

I hate the set, to me it doesnt deal enough damage to run over other sets like Axiom, Overwhelming, Necro etc. Not worth it imo.

Oooh boy with 15k max health I'd pray to run into someone like you. I don't use sloads but I'd be happy to throw it on just to show you how lost you are.

D0PAMINE · July 2018

I don't even pay attention to my death recap.

IlCanis_LupuslI · July 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm more concerned about the classes 1vXers use, it's never all 5 of them....

Aka...

While people complain sload is OP. I'm fairly sure the class balance is way worse.

(Waiting for the 1vX Magden videos...)

Check up Despotic on YouTube im sure he use to play Magden and had lots of success with it. Probably a few 1vsX included im shure

TheYKcid · July 2018

@idk

Viper's Sting DPS calculator is now available at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TfyCmjIFksysDkNlEV_mx3WxbkYI07HOO6b85Y_qs4Q/edit?usp=sharing

Some example data is listed in my original thread (link to post).

You got your comparison of 5pc set vs. 5pc set, and the results are pretty definitive. So can we please find some common ground and agree that the set needs addressing in some way?

IZZEFlameLash · July 2018

idk wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

@idk

Viper's Sting DPS calculator is now available at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TfyCmjIFksysDkNlEV_mx3WxbkYI07HOO6b85Y_qs4Q/edit?usp=sharing

Some example data is listed in my original thread (link to post).

You got your comparison of 5pc set vs. 5pc set, and the results are pretty definitive. So can we please find some common ground and agree that the set needs addressing in some way?

First, that spreadsheet needs a lot more to make sense of it. It is currently set in a pretty tight vacuum.

Second, even your 5pc comparison (which seems to be only compared to one set) does not seem to have an equal comparison for sloads.

It also seems to assume a 100% up time.

Regardless, I really do not care. I merely pointed out the OP was wrong and even he could not defend his comments appropriately. This thread died a quick death once already. We can let it enjoy it's peace and quiet.

What more is there? Viper goes through tons of resistance checks and the wearer's penetration stats checks and CP to deal damage while Sload's will deal full damage regardless because it ignores everything. Therefore, Sload's give more DPS.

Ectheliontnacil · July 2018

Here's an awesome p2w idea. Givethe Psijic order skill line a passive that makes you immune to oblivion dmg!

Oxalias · July 2018

A few clever souls have mentioned that other proccs like calurions, zaans are far worse. Along with sloads these need to be addressed

Ragnaroek93 · July 2018

Always remember, they nerfed Viper, Selene and Tremo because they were too strong

technohic · July 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Always remember, they nerfed Viper, Selene and Tremo because they were too strong

The most amazing thing in all of this is they keep repeating the process. It’s why I find merit in the thought they do it to sell expansions

RighteousBacon · July 2018

Dear god people. I don’t understand why you defend Sloads. And I have a really hard time believing that someone has been playing battlegrounds for 3 weeks and seen only 2-3 people use Sloads, that’s ridiculous. Last week I was in a match against 4 mag sorcs, all running Sloads...

There’s so many problems with your arguement.
First, you can’t define you amount of time in battlegrounds by “weeks” or even days, it only makes sense to define it in games played. You could say I’ve been playing battlegrounds for 5 weeks and I have seen only 2 Sloads users but that could mean one matcha per day, or freaking 5.

Also, just because you haven’t seen many Sloads users doesn’t mean there aren’t an abundance of them. Many of them were probably on your team but you just neglected to realize. Sure there’s a hint of hypocrisy in my in my own statement since just because I see many Sloads users, I could just be seeing them all right? But I choose to believe I’m in the right

idk · July 2018

To be clear since some seem confused about what I have said in this thread. I really do not care about the future of Sloads since I do not use it. But do care about unsubstantiated claims.

OP essentially stated that Sloads was the strongest set in the game yet only compared it to one set, Master DW. Since then it has been compared to one more set making the total sets. (comparing 5 pc to 5 pc)

Not getting into the narrow focus of the limited comparisons, but the obvious part is if this set did more damage than the effective damage of any 5 PC in the game it would be used in competitive end game PvE trial groups and this set is not.

That is the gist of what I have said here. Again, not suggesting Sloads is fine as it is, just the basis of at least one argument OP has posed in this thread is unsubstantiated and probably incorrect.

HeroOfNone · July 2018

Build diversity? you mean glass cannon Nightblades using cloak as their sole defense? almost all stamina builds using 7th legion heavy armor and troll king for heals? Necropotence on a Sorc build? elegance for light attack builds?

Sload's is the new kid on the block and performing in better synergy than something like wizard's repost, but even when its nerfed we still have a lot of useless sets and skills that need a better buff to be useful in PVP or PVE. Hoping we don't lose sight of this with all the hating going on because we have to change tactics.

Dudis · July 2018

Mag sorcs perspective here: Sloads isn't a big deal 1v1, but if you face two or three people running it is a ton of pleasure that goes straight through your main defence.

I have little to no issues with it on my magplar or stamina chars.

Just increase the damage a bit and make it not Oblivion damage and it'll be fine.

Vapirko · July 2018

Dudis wrote: »

Mag sorcs perspective here: Sloads isn't a big deal 1v1, but if you face two or three people running it is a ton of pleasure that goes straight through your main defence.

I have little to no issues with it on my magplar or stamina chars.

Just increase the damage a bit and make it not Oblivion damage and it'll be fine.

Well yeah because if you changed it to not oblivion damage it would do less than 400 per tick lol. Even if you buffed it quite a bit, but I’m all for making it worthless.

generalmyrick · July 2018

SippingPotions wrote: »

zhip wrote: »

bg:s higer mmr there is like max 2-3 sload users because everyone is nb or sorc anyway everyone use shaclebreaker set i think thats most op set in pvp.

So an extra 904 max mag and stam and 129 recovery on shacklebreaker is more OP then the oblivion dot from sloads? Running into 4 people wearing shacklebreaker is not an automatic death sentence.

think about this! is it for an average player? if the answer is no --> that would be an interesting game...

if the answer is yes ----> to whom should the developers be making sets for?

ZOS_JesC · July 2018

Greetings, we've removed several comments that were derailing the thread. While it is fine to disagree with each other, please keep the conversation on topic and free of baiting remarks. Thanks!

montiferus · July 2018

lol well done zos! keep up the great work!

Chelo · July 2018

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

As a medium armor wearer Sloads in BGs is a death sentence (unless i can get my healing ulti off). I cannot purge, without Blessed CP my healing is low. I understand its purpose against Shieldstackers and Heavy armor tanks. But just like Acuity far too many people are weaing it that it forces those who aren't to craft a set.
When all i get is 1 dot plus light attack and its procs sloads, weapon enchant, skoria. my vigor/ rally isnt enough to outheal the execute to come.

Possible solution, buff medium armor

Honestly in medium armor you are not suppose to outheal anything LOL XD

Metemsycosis · July 2018

Finally got hit with two sloads. OMG no

ChunkyCat · July 2018

ZAAAAAAANNN

Mazbt · July 2018

On PC NA Vivec there's a DC small man that just focusing down people one at a time with staff light attacks stacking sloads. And at least someone in group with defile and with skorias. Cheesiest thing I've seen in PVP since...as long as I can remember. That damage adds up super quick. I make a point to not go near the group if I figure out where they are (If I'm solo)

Waffennacht · July 2018

Mazbt wrote: »

On PC NA Vivec there's a DC small man that just focusing down people one at a time with staff light attacks stacking sloads. And at least someone in group with defile and with skorias. Cheesiest thing I've seen in PVP since...as long as I can remember. That damage adds up super quick. I make a point to not go near the group if I figure out where they are (If I'm solo)

Well that seems like good advice no matter what a coordinated group runs if you're solo

generalmyrick · July 2018

I absolutely suck at pvp...some things i could practice [animation cancelling and LOSing] i wont because its silly.

But if i had 5 people with me that wore exactly what i told them we could kill most people in under a second with just heavy lightning attacks--and we wouldnt wear sloads.

If the person starting using los...they'd survive longer...but not much...

HeroOfNone · July 2018

Mazbt wrote: »

On PC NA Vivec there's a DC small man that just focusing down people one at a time with staff light attacks stacking sloads. And at least someone in group with defile and with skorias. Cheesiest thing I've seen in PVP since...as long as I can remember. That damage adds up super quick. I make a point to not go near the group if I figure out where they are (If I'm solo)

Should the game be so unbalanced that you feel going against any group of players solo is a good thing? Especially coordinated groups with proper build synergy?

If I was going to put this another way this is like a pro in Rainbow 6 siege was bitching he can't get an ace anymore because the group of nooks all C4ed his shield. Or the bullets all do too much damage when the 5 of them spray aim his position.

Might not take skill, but a game should not be designed to allow one person to survive moderate sized groups of other players except in rare occurrences.

mlsweet · July 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Sloads is that set does weak damage compared to the other proc sets, and that hardly anyone uses. And yet is QQ'd about constantly.

Some people just hate slotting a heal that much eh?

sloads has become the great divide between experienced and inexperienced players. Those defending use weak arguments and propose sets and builds that would only work in a zerg, or, in their infinite wisdom, tell people to slot heals. They tell you to stop trying to 1vX. Sloads is the “flag” of a new generation of PvPers who think balance means you can’t fight more than one person at a time if you’re solo. I fear that what ZOS decides to do about this set will inficate once and for all whether they’re dedicated to balance or catering to the masses who don’t want skill to be a part of PvP.

@Daus if Sloads is so weak and no one uses it as you say, then why do you care if it gets nerfed further since it’s obviously of no use to you.

Well said. With this set, all you have to do is equip it and show up. Spam light attacks to proc sloads and 80% of players will back off to recover from a sload proc. No skills or abilities required.

I try to set up my gear so that my abilities and stats are strong. I enjoy the challenge of weaving a combo of abilities together to kill players, without a % chance that my armor is going to provide me with a burst that isn't ability based. In other words, I am the only controller for my damage or healing sources. I have to press buttons to do damage, or to heal or to protect myself. For a majority, this is what skilled PvP looks like. And sloads is a step in the opposite direction.

But I don't hate on all proc sets, some proc sets are good compliments to a players combo or rotation, and are not OP or are at least limited to a few classes or builds, and add depth to diversity among player builds. This is good.

Some are also bad. Very bad (looking at you Zaans/Sloads)

Sloads however is exceptionally toxic for quality PvP. It's 2-4 are good for mag or stam and you see any class from either pool using it. It's damage is oblivion. If you actually know ESO PvP I don't need to extrapolate on how strong this set can be.

It's pretty clear to me that some of the players here on the forums defending sloads are enjoying their time pretending to be an authority on PvP mechanics.

Some are also not shy about saying how much they enjoy the "tears" from all the other players complaining about sloads, another indication that they are likely subpar PvPer's who aren't going to go quietly into the night after seeing the playing field leveled by these means.

I respect that ZOS wants a balanced PVP environment, but the costs to achieve that through the sloads route are the destruction of build diversity and a heavily reduced emphasis on player micro management, or in other words, the soul of ESO PvP.

mlsweet · July 2018

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I’ve got it, this is the reason to nerf sloads that even its defenders should be able to get behind: build diversity. Now, I know for sure (though I won’t name any names cause forum rules) that at least some people defending Sloads have ranted about build diversity this and build diversity that in the past. So answer me this, your solution to Sloads is for everyone to slot purge or use wyrd tree, ok fine. Since apparently all the Sloaders know better than the most respected content producers and theory crafters in this game, this set should be nerfed because it’s killing build diversity and forcing everyone to use one set to survive or one skill, and destroying the work ZOS has done to move away from a heavy armor meta, since health regen is the best way to counter this if you’re not a magicka build and can’t use Wyrd tree. In the name of #builddiversity nerf Sloads because ZOS says I should be able to play however I want and Sloads isn’t letting me do this.

Even with people adapting to Sloads, build diversity should be fine as there are many ways to deal with it...

One could make no changes to his/her build whatsoever and simply run with a Templar to deal with Sloads...

One could go the High Health Regen route (Troll King, Orgnums Scales, Bee Keepers)...

Wyrd Tree and Purge are definitely not the only options out there...

Heck, from what I've read from those who complain about Sloads, it only really becomes a problem if you are being focused on by multiple Sloads users...

So another solution would be to simply stop trying to 1vX and just challenge no more than an opponent or two at one time max...

In conclusion, build diversity is fine...

People are just mad that Sloads disrupts their easy mode, and now they actually have to defend themselves in more ways than just stacking shields or spamming cloak...

Just on your last statement, the class defining defenses of sorcs or nbs is to either shield or cloak. That's a big part of what makes their class their class. An easily obtainable set should not turn that on its head.

How is anyone not a Templar solo queueing into a battleground suppose to feel if there isn't a Templar on their team who can purify? Or if everyone is stamina based and doesn't have purge?

Trying to argue that build diversity is fine while recommending that everyone should wear either sloads or a health recovery set doesn't seem like a great argument.

HeathenDeacon · July 2018

ya know, i tried not jumping on the nerf sloads bandwagon right away, but it is truely just not good for pvp in any way.

As someone that exclusively plays BGs I've really started to realize that its not the prevelance of people using it, or even when it stacks that gets to me, but its how much the actual good players can abuse it.

Theres about 3 or 4 guys that are very experienced well known players on ps4 that as soon as i check the scorecard at the beginning of a match i SMH.
One or two of them even rocks shieldbreaker+ sloads and basically if i dont spend the entire match keeping an eye out for them pew pewing arrows out of stealth then its RIP.

The other ones just lap on the the sload dots and then go about their normal high end play.

Oh and after just running into one a few minutes ago i realized how they are all NBs and basically now that sloads wont take THEM out of stealth they are going to be even WORSE next patch.

My point is i dont care about the 'crutch'/ FOTM aspect of the set, but its the fact that this much OBlivion damage in the form of an easily applied DOT is just completely overtuned in a skilled players hands.

I honestly think that even with the pitiful 'nerf' to the damage in the next patch that SLoads will double, triple in usage over the next patch cycle and it will completely dominate the meta.