Means feemium games go bye bye..but this whole microtransactions thing is changing how games are created and for the worse so screw em

Has anyone here ever actually been addicted to gambling, coz I can tell you from experience it's not about winning in the slightest it is purely the experience of the roll, or the turn of the cards , or goal that might come in, Gambling Is a an adrenaline based addiction that preys on your feelings and emotions not your thoughts, honestly winning isn't a an amazing thing when your an addicted gambler, its a SOURCE TO CARRY ON GAMBLING, winning is the opportunity to do it all over again ask an addicted gambler when they last stopped 99% of the time it will be when they've run out of money, Not when they won the mega billion jackpot at the casino the night before.

We never played to leave richer we never played to be smarter we never player to be better we played to anticipate what MIGHT HAPPEN.

Let me ask you when you got that item you wanted or that messi or that han solo did you stop opening crates forever ...????????

It's a brutal addiction that will honestly ruin your life.

You can class anyone even if they live in poverty as an addicted gambler if they spend the last penny they have on gambling whether it be 10 million or 10 pence.

I managed to stop when I spent 15k I was left by a family member as inheritance and the reason I stopped was try telling your wife or your family you've just done it again and then try and tell them again and again and again, I spent close to 250k in one year I didn't have and it took me along time to pay it off.

Now let's look at these loot boxes, there is many ways to define them but you can't compare loot boxes in ESO to loot boxes in battlefront 2 there is beyond a unice difference in them, now while crown crates are horrible things you are guaranteed an item you can see but I agree with the % should be shown, as it does on slot nachines and roulette and blackjack and so on, the gaming maestros where very smart how they went about this as it should be regulated on that regard, now battlefront 2 is a whole different subject because you literally can't progress in the game without getting these loot crates and you don't know what your getting at all basically it's a pot luck of everything, now let's look at fifa, fifa is actually rather more not gambling than you could ever expect the simple reason being every card states you get x-gold items x silver items and x bronze/special items, but these are EASILY obtainable by playing the game or by spending money so that's YOUR CHOICE to use your money or YOUR CHOICE to use in game currency, if ZOS said u got 1 apex item per 10 crates ideal you know how many it MIGHT take or you might get lucky in the 9 before, the only reason ZOS would ever be brought into this is because of radiant Apex items.

Now there's a million and one different ways to look at these situations, but without a doubt there should be an imposed age limit on the crates, have any of you ever had your child steal money to play a game or to get an item they want so they can be like there friend who got the only apex item in existence, that in itself is breeding a younger generation to be addicted to before they even realise what addiction is, you see it all the time in forums I'M LOOKING TO BUY THIS ITEM FOR MY CHILD AS THEY WANT TO BE LIKE THERE FRIEND, not realising that friend might be a 25+ person who has a job and does buy stuff out of they're own pocket and has the ability to choose if it's a wrong or right decision (gambling addicts are hard to define in thus instance as this is when it comes to x amount spent) this is where the gaming industry has fallen is because it has specifically preyed on the younger generation which gives a game longevity over 10s of years LOOK AT WOW, it's an insanely smart but cruel business model that is basically flawless in its approach, and if you don't me believe go and watch a video on when smoking was lobbied to children, it's the exact same business model.

Now comes the issue of manipulation which we all know is happening and personally I believe in the seeding theory, for those of you that don't know, the seeding theory is every time you log in your assigned a seed number that seed number is correlated to what prizes you get, every time you log in you get a new seed number, now the issue with this is you could log in and if your trying to get the best item but it's not your seeded number you could spend millions and you will never ever get it because you where never in the position to be able to get it, this is where it differs from gambling and is actually a whole lot worse than gambling, because YOU CAN'T WIN, but that is obviously where we still don't know if this is 100% or not yet but the 100s of millions companies like Activision EA and blizzard have spent to make sure they don't have to divulge this information should be a pretty clear indicator into whether this is true or not.

NOW for everyone that says it's the weak willed that's causing this I bet you don't have children or anythin, and if you for once think I am a weak willed person because I had a very large gambling addiction you are so far from wrong it's quite astonishing, yes you have weak willed people but they don't tend to carry on at things because they don't believe there good enough at it or it could be Done better by someone else, you'll tend to find when it comes to gambling there actually very strong willed people because they will do anything to be able to gamble its just a case of perception, and it's also how we get ourselves out of it, yes I'm not saying everyone's the same but the majority of gamblers are like this.

Now I've written to much lol and think I went slightly off topic but the just is these items should either be regulated or age limited how many 8-11 year old do you see in a casino none.

So for all of you that believe the that it's wrong these sanctions to be brought in remember this isn't about you it's about that WEAK WILLED 8 year old who just spent 500 on a game.

The fact that a government wants to take a person's choice is all I see in this. Remove crates, bars, brothels and anything else they deem offensive right? Just shut down all gaming unless is Disney because someone may have violent tendencies and get triggered by playing a game that has violence in it. No racing games because it may cause me to speed in my car.

When will people start taking personal responsibility again? I dont the govt any further into my life then they already are. I'm a big boy and can make big boy choices without any help from politicians.

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

Now Hawaii
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=_akwfRuL4os

Who is next to jump in?

The comparison to Joe Camel is spot on.

It's so easy for people who are not addicted, or don't know anyone who suffers from an addiction, to say "just don't do it lol!" They have no idea how really, truly insidious and down right evil it is.

So take everyone else's rights away correct? This is a stupid argument. Because of obesiety we should outlaw sweets and unhealthy food. Cigarettes because of lung cancer. Alcohol because of alcoholics. Absolutely take away my choices because of the negative effects. I dont think so. I like having my own choices, and I don't need any politician to tell me what choices I should make. Its called free will, and as hard as that is to understand, I like it. The consequence are my own. Thats called personal responsibility, I like it too.

Maybe those who have a weakness or addiction should seek help from a professional, but taking away my choice should not be an option.

But what about when your to young to make that choice freely because you don't understand personal responsibility ???

Turelus wrote: »

Farscape76 wrote: »

Personal Responsibility ... each person is ...gasp... responsible for their own actions. It is not governments job to be our mommy and tell us what we can and can't purchase.

If you can't handle gambling seek help but you shouldn't expect a government to make the world safe for you. We don't close bars to protect alcoholics.

Grow the f*** up snowflakes

Actually we kind of should, that's part of the reason we have them. To make laws and enforce them for the protection and betterment of society.

I know it's cool to jump on this bandwagon, but sometimes people want actions taken because it makes things better. ESO would be better without crates, some of us remember the time before the crates.

So you would like the government to tell you how to live? What to eat, how to dress, how to walk etc. Yes I remember before crates but that isn't the issue, the issue is of choices being taken away as if I'm some kind of child that is incapable of making my own decision. Right, wrong or otherwise its my decision on how to spend my money. I earned it and should be able to spend it how I see fit. Should I be allowed to see a movie that I may like, or should the government say nope it may be bad for you to watch it and remove my choice all together.

This isn't a morality argument, regardless of how you feel about crates. This is about removing my freedom of choice. I don't understand how having less choices is a good thing. You are, or should be old enough to decide what is right for yourself. And the child argument falls short, parents should be parents and teach their own children how they see fit. If the parents can't or won't teach their kids then maybe the govt should step in but not before hand.

Balamoor wrote: »

As my sig says....

“Gambling” requires a wager to win something of tangible value. If the thing won can’t be sold or monetized, it isn’t gambling Period.

Any legislator who thinks that a judge or court will side with them over this is an idiot and should resign immediately. Any player who thinks that this will stop Crown Crates or Loot boxes dream on...if anything it will backfire and end up giving developers even more leeway to market how they see fit.

Unless your sig is what is on the statute books in your territory, I suspect you're wrong.

The UK Gambling Act 2005 goes into a bit more detail than your one-liner, and will stand up in court.

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

Because this is a hot general topic in gaming right now we would like to keep this topic open for discussion

I would imagine it's a hot topic in your boardroom right now as well.

SFDB wrote: »

I imagine the topic is "Leave it to EA to s*** the bed this badly."

EA become villains and heroes in one fell swoop.

Wow this went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic.

As stated in my earlier post loot boxes are gambling... I think there are a bunch of ways you can make thier use in games more ethical. Particularly when these games are played by people under 18, legally or otherwise.

• It is all about infoming the user that there is no guranteed results that it is gambling at all. Now a simiple soultion is just a pop up and having a button to click that says "I know loot boxes are gambling". The problem is that no one reads those things.
• We need known odds. There are a few ways of doing this. The simplist is the loot box will always give one rare item. That is how Magic the gathering and Pokemon card boosters work. Those rare items have different real world values but those are not set by the games creators.
• Another way to make loot boxes less like gambling is to have everything in the crates always be worth the same amount of loot gems. So you open a rare item that is all you get. you open a less rare item you get lots of little things. That way you are playing money for a set amount of loot gems. There by avoiding some aspect of the gambling. I feel like this is probably the best way for Zos to go here.
• Finally and I think this is probably abusive in its own way, you mess with the odds. Each time you "miss" you get more likely to hit until you are definately getting a rare item in the next box. This option still makes me uneasy. But I can see how this both makes money for the company and gets people something they want.

Slick_007 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

So you know they're crap

please show me where i said they were crap? you're wrong here.

and still feel the need to protect business that's unfavourable for costumers? You're likely one of those people that just doesn't care about the content of the crates so you don't care how awfully it is implemented. The biggest crate supporters in these threads have ironically always been people that don't buy crown crates.

i just told you i have bought crates in the past. so you're wrong here too

"You go ahead and keep the game alive with your money while I get to spout nonsense about freedom and how america works." The paying costumer is who really gets to decide what succeeds, not the companies. Of course this is all circumvented when it comes to scam.

As to the many reasons why they're scam: if you actually seek useless consumables again and again then you'll get more value out of directly buying said consumable in the crown store. The gems lure people in with a promise to trade things they don't like for what they're really after. Except each instalment of crates is crammed full of junk so that that rarely happens and even if it does, the amount of gems you get out of them is plain pathetic. This false sense of optimism is most definitely scam as it mostly targets rich, naive or young people.

the many reasons huh? none of that shows its a scam. it just shows you wouldnt know a scam if it hit you in the face.
false sense of optimism? go whine about that to all those people who buy lottery tickets and scratchies. that is gambling and is perfectly fine and legal, yet does far more damage than this game ever could or would.

You said you're unlikely to buy any further crown crates, meaning they aren't worth your money. Or if you want to nitpick: your money doesn't support crown crates, making them an unsuccessful marketing practise of making you pay. Turn it however you want, if you don't buy something then there isn't sufficient interest. Which brings me back to the question of why do you feel the need to defend unfavourable business models?

If you can get consumables in every roll which are not only worthless but less in value than buying said consumable directly then that's clearly scam. Lottery tickets are not available to minors and they don't promise you to eventually get what you want because you can just get it with gems. Not only do you not get gems for collectables you don't want since you need to get them a second time, no, you barely get any gems out of them even if this does occur.
Everything involving gambling has regulations to keep vulnerable people away, only games don't. Would you be more happy if I call them something else? Malicious, deceitful, overpriced, junk or just awful? Pick whatever you like but if "go whine" or something along the lines of "play something else" is all you have when someone voices concern then I'm not sure a forum for discussions and arguments is the fitting place for it.