UPDATED: So... about those Crown Crates in light of Belgium's ruling that they are gambling
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Alchemical✭✭✭✭✭Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »
The comparison to Joe Camel is spot on.
It's so easy for people who are not addicted, or don't know anyone who suffers from an addiction, to say "just don't do it lol!" They have no idea how really, truly insidious and down right evil it is.6 -
maboleth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Any way we could go back and forth all day on this, but I personally am tired of publishers and corporate overloads trying to turn games into cash milking machines. This is why I find myself playing more and more games from Indie and EU companies where the US style corporate greed doesn't seem to be as strong.
I'm not sure it's just pure corporate greed or just a way to stay in business, as of 2017. If major companies adopted the model that people readily use, Zenimax couldn't stay behind.
As I already said, if crates are keeping P2W model at bay and the whole game in a good state, I'm all for it. We can argue all day if this is fair, good or even healthy practice, but it's there, lot of people use and is a big money income for the game you love.
They are not nearly as dangerous as some people claim them to be (overreacting at its best), but I do see the shortcomings. Craving for what? Cosmetic items, mount that does the same thing as the regular horse? Comparing that to real money gambling and the drug addiction? Oh please. Then Kinder Surprise egg is the drug too. You get addicted both by the tasty chocolate and the prize.
Anyone can opt-out and avoid Crates altogether, but to expect the whole company (Zenimax) to stay out of this business model just for sake of good behaviour is not an option. Not in 2017.2 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Whilst I can't speak for ZOS. Other companies did the stupid recently and showed their earnings. They were making hell a load of profit before they dumped crates and micro-transactions on top.Any way we could go back and forth all day on this, but I personally am tired of publishers and corporate overloads trying to turn games into cash milking machines. This is why I find myself playing more and more games from Indie and EU companies where the US style corporate greed doesn't seem to be as strong.
I'm not sure it's just pure corporate greed or just a way to stay in business, as of 2017. If major companies adopted the model that people readily use, Zenimax couldn't stay behind.
As I already said, if crates are keeping P2W model at bay and the whole game in a good state, I'm all for it. We can argue all day if this is fair, good or even healthy practice, but it's there, lot of people use and is a big money income for the game you love.
They are not nearly as dangerous as some people claim them to be (overreacting at its best), but I do see the shortcomings. Craving for what? Cosmetic items, mount that does the same thing as the regular horse? Comparing that to real money gambling and the drug addiction? Oh please. Then Kinder Surprise egg is the drug too. You get addicted both by the tasty chocolate and the prize.
Anyone can opt-out and avoid Crates altogether, but to expect the whole company (Zenimax) to stay out of this business model just for sake of good behaviour is not an option. Not in 2017.
I'm faily confident that ESO could survive with a basic micro-transaction and limited time offer model. However that's just not going to make as much money as the crates do, so whilst it's hot get in on the action.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."4 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.Alchemical wrote: »Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »
The comparison to Joe Camel is spot on.
It's so easy for people who are not addicted, or don't know anyone who suffers from an addiction, to say "just don't do it lol!" They have no idea how really, truly insidious and down right evil it is.
Personally do not buy into the Alcoholics Anonymous sentiment of having to accept and submit to a higher power
Just don't do it is an affirmation -- the individual is the one who has agency and control over his or her actions,
and he or she is the one who tries to assuage personal responsibility by pinning it on others
if you cannot be around a friend without getting drunk, you have to take the responsibility to break off that friendship rather than try to claim a lack of fault due to outside influence
if you cannot be on ESO without buying Crown Crates, then start by taking some time off ESO and maybe treat yourself to some cosmetic purchases that make you feel nice in the real world
if we look at evil, especially within ourselves, and simply throw up our hands and say we are not responsible for it and someone bigger/more powerful has to handle it
then all we have done is given the power to do evil to us to another entity in the hopes that they will not capitalize on it in a similar mannerwith regards to the Elder Scrolls community, I blame Skyrim for taking Willpower out of the game as a character stat
and causing a generation to think their power could be attained by chasing dragons
Edited by Samadhi on November 22, 2017 12:04PM"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Interesting article, and video. Good to see, but bad for game developers who probably make a bunch of cash on llot boxes
Maybe they should start making more worthwhile content then? And spend their time developing content instead?
This doesnt mean the companies wont be able to sell things via the crown store, it just means that crown crates and the like will be banned in the future ( hopefully ) and THAT is a good thing. If you spend real life money on stuff in agame, you should know EXACTLY what you are getting.5 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chickenstein wrote: »Why is it even considered gambling if you can't lose? Sure out of the eyes of a veteran player getting potions poisons food and a soul gem is "lost" money but even those can be turned into gems. If I play 50 rounds of roulette I might leave empty-handed but here I will have at least 2000 gems after 50 crates assuming I got white consumables only (which btw is impossible).
Yeah, same methodical reasoning one of my formerly gambling addicted buddies used. "Hey, I'm not playing these slot machines because of the prizes, I play because it's FUN!" yeah well then it's not gambling, of course. He just can't lose with all the fun he's having!
Edit: He was broke and in debt after years of all the "fun" nevertheless.
I would argue that (if he didn't got himself in debt) if it really was fun for him then it was money well spent, but you should never put your short time enjoyment over long time maintenance of your standard of living.
The thing is that fun is always good but us humans like to fool ourselves that our lives can be 100% fun. The moment you use money for entertainment that was meant to pay your bills, you need help.
At least someone who had fun opening crown crates also has a ton of collectibles unlike a slot machine gambler who only has fun and nothing else. Ha ha.
In all seriousness the main problem I see here is that responsible people don't want their fun to get taken away and irresponsible people / people at risk of addiction need to be protected as most of the time they realize their mistakes too late. Tbh I don't know if we can find an acceptable solution that is also fair for all three sides.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭To be sure, we are talking about one EU member thus far - Belgium. To get any regulation of this kind adopted on an EU-wide basis is typically an exercise in bureaucratic obstructionism that lasts for the better part of a given decade. And the article didn't say about any legislative action inside Belgium itself. So the sky isn't falling quite yet.
Plus, the Brits are leaving. Of course, the way they are doing it they might not have any planes flying the morning after, but at least they'll still have their loot boxes. [Unless parliament finally decides to go after the whole "online gambling" sector, which some have been urging it to do for a while - but that's a much broader discussion in itself.]
Besides which, in the absolute worst case scenario (loot box ban worldwide, penalty of death by firing squad, French commissars overseeing video game developer teams like back in the revolutionary days, et cetera), the whole sticking point seems to be randomization of loot. I quote the article that the MMORPG.com page ultimately links to: "Minister of Justice wants to ban purchases in video games, if you do not know what exactly you are about with that purchase." [Thank you, Google Translate. You blithering sods.] Fine, now you get to directly purchase that one item you were hoping to roll, but for - I don't know, 10-50 times the cost of a single loot box to reflect its rarity slash market demand. Presumably Belgium's Minister of Justice will then declare some form of victory, possibly marked by a parade culminating with a mass *** in the parliamentary chambers.
As I've said above, the sky isn't falling quite yet.
----
What I really want to know is why, why the Minister of Justice - one Koen Geens, of the local version of Christian Democrats (center-right-ish with a moralist twist, I presume) - bothers. Surely loot boxes cannot be some sort of a scourge sweeping the...glens and heaths...or something...of Belgium, reaping a grisly harvest among its youth. I know next to nothing about Belgian politics, well, aside from the Franco-Flemish split, but ordinarily an elected minister would announce something like this because a) it makes them look as if they are doing something; and b) they do not actually have to do anything (not the least as they can use EU bureaucracy as an excuse). "Look at me, see how vigorously I am defending your children against...scourges." Just seems daft to me, the whole thing does.
Why would someone ACTUALLY standing up against the scourge that is RNG crates be a bad thing? It can only be a good thing. It sounds like you are FOR random crates, which is just absurd considering no one wanted these things in the first plae in ANY games.3 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well.... Quite stupid to try and ban anything in a game in an entire country.
Loot boxes, yes they're gambling. So are bags in-game? If they wanna ban them then the companies like Blizzard may say "Overwatch makes no money here. Close the servers."
Seems you're more concerned about the poor multi million (or billion dollar corps) than you are siding with your fellow gamers and ultimately ruled by fear. Would be rather spiteful to go down that route and I suspect the servers are EU based rather than Belgian specific. regardless, it would be Blizzard that would ultimately lose if they were to pull out the EU market. A market that is probably only 2nd to the US, thus a major source of income. MS were hauled over hot coals a few years ago by the EU, yet they still remain. Why? Because it's real life and not some notion that is thought up by some forum user.Edited by Prof_Bawbag on November 22, 2017 12:07PM3 -
Storymaster✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno
I hope I'm posting this in the correct forum - it seems like a general topic to me.
The Belgium Gaming Commission has ruled (rather quickly) that yes, loot boxes constitute a form of gambling and they will be seeking that the EU ban them. They focused on the SWBF2 and Overwatch systems but, as I understand it, the ruling is more general than that.
https://www.mmorpg.com/news/belgium-rules-loot-boxes-are-gambling-seeks-to-have-an-eu-ban-implmented-1000046476
IMO, this is a long way from over but it IS a first.
I doubt there will be an official ZOS statement about this but I'm "atting" Gina just in case they do want to comment.
What do the rest of you think?
@Iselin
Ack.... Man, this is a very, very slippery slope and we need to be careful of what the potential repercussions could be, especially with interpretation of the law.
While I am no fan of crime crates and the concept of loot boxes in general, where does one draw the line and what would such laws be open to interpretation for. Also, what if the game becomes unavailable altogether in some regions because of this feature? That seems extremely harsh.
This just doesn't sound good to me on any level. It's a can of worms we don't need opened.
And maybe it's just the American in me, but I hate it when governments try to rob individuals of choice and self-governing.2 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Storymaster wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno
I hope I'm posting this in the correct forum - it seems like a general topic to me.
The Belgium Gaming Commission has ruled (rather quickly) that yes, loot boxes constitute a form of gambling and they will be seeking that the EU ban them. They focused on the SWBF2 and Overwatch systems but, as I understand it, the ruling is more general than that.
https://www.mmorpg.com/news/belgium-rules-loot-boxes-are-gambling-seeks-to-have-an-eu-ban-implmented-1000046476
IMO, this is a long way from over but it IS a first.
I doubt there will be an official ZOS statement about this but I'm "atting" Gina just in case they do want to comment.
What do the rest of you think?
@Iselin
Ack.... Man, this is a very, very slippery slope and we need to be careful of what the potential repercussions could be, especially with interpretation of the law.
While I am no fan of crime crates and the concept of loot boxes in general, where does one draw the line and what would such laws be open to interpretation for. Also, what if the game becomes unavailable altogether in some regions because of this feature? That seems extremely harsh.
This just doesn't sound good to me on any level. It's a can of worms we don't need opened.
And maybe it's just the American in me, but I hate it when governments try to rob individuals of choice and self-governing.
But its ok for corporations to prey on children and make millions by putting scam crates in the game? Well, that does sound pretty american.8 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Storymaster wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno
I hope I'm posting this in the correct forum - it seems like a general topic to me.
The Belgium Gaming Commission has ruled (rather quickly) that yes, loot boxes constitute a form of gambling and they will be seeking that the EU ban them. They focused on the SWBF2 and Overwatch systems but, as I understand it, the ruling is more general than that.
https://www.mmorpg.com/news/belgium-rules-loot-boxes-are-gambling-seeks-to-have-an-eu-ban-implmented-1000046476
IMO, this is a long way from over but it IS a first.
I doubt there will be an official ZOS statement about this but I'm "atting" Gina just in case they do want to comment.
What do the rest of you think?
@Iselin
Ack.... Man, this is a very, very slippery slope and we need to be careful of what the potential repercussions could be, especially with interpretation of the law.
While I am no fan of crime crates and the concept of loot boxes in general, where does one draw the line and what would such laws be open to interpretation for. Also, what if the game becomes unavailable altogether in some regions because of this feature? That seems extremely harsh.
This just doesn't sound good to me on any level. It's a can of worms we don't need opened.
And maybe it's just the American in me, but I hate it when governments try to rob individuals of choice and self-governing.
But its ok for corporations to prey on children and make millions by putting scam crates in the game? Well, that does sound pretty american.
Hey! We have to get the money somewhere to pay off the politicians and special intrest...1 -
Storymaster✭✭✭✭✭But its ok for corporations to prey on children and make millions by putting scam crates in the game? Well, that does sound pretty american.
Eh, I was just trying to open some dialog about my concerns for the potential fallout. I'm no fan of crime crates, but I do prefer the right of choice.
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witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ZOS_GinaBruno
I hope I'm posting this in the correct forum - it seems like a general topic to me.
The Belgium Gaming Commission has ruled (rather quickly) that yes, loot boxes constitute a form of gambling and they will be seeking that the EU ban them. They focused on the SWBF2 and Overwatch systems but, as I understand it, the ruling is more general than that.
https://www.mmorpg.com/news/belgium-rules-loot-boxes-are-gambling-seeks-to-have-an-eu-ban-implmented-1000046476
IMO, this is a long way from over but it IS a first.
I doubt there will be an official ZOS statement about this but I'm "atting" Gina just in case they do want to comment.
What do the rest of you think?
ZoS, EA and Blizzard wont change it, because they operate under American Law, and not EU laws. So nothing will change in the end.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but while the companies may be based out of the US, if they do business in another country, they ARE subject to their laws... just look at judgement against Google, Apple, etc.. all US based companies. And... if they get them banned in the EU, that's a HUGE market they won't want to miss out on.
My guess is, they'll simply remove them from those countries. And if they do, that means they'll need to figure a way to increase revenue to make up for the lost crate revenue.
Yep.
If the pushback isn't universal, i.e., all of the EU, the US on a Federal (vs state) level, the response may be: if you have a Belgian billing address, no crates for you!
This will be interesting to keep an eye on.0 -
Alchemical✭✭✭✭✭.Alchemical wrote: »Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »
The comparison to Joe Camel is spot on.
It's so easy for people who are not addicted, or don't know anyone who suffers from an addiction, to say "just don't do it lol!" They have no idea how really, truly insidious and down right evil it is.
Personally do not buy into the Alcoholics Anonymous sentiment of having to accept and submit to a higher power
Just don't do it is an affirmation -- the individual is the one who has agency and control over his or her actions,
and he or she is the one who tries to assuage personal responsibility by pinning it on others
if you cannot be around a friend without getting drunk, you have to take the responsibility to break off that friendship rather than try to claim a lack of fault due to outside influence
if you cannot be on ESO without buying Crown Crates, then start by taking some time off ESO and maybe treat yourself to some cosmetic purchases that make you feel nice in the real world
if we look at evil, especially within ourselves, and simply throw up our hands and say we are not responsible for it and someone bigger/more powerful has to handle it
then all we have done is given the power to do evil to us to another entity in the hopes that they will not capitalize on it in a similar mannerwith regards to the Elder Scrolls community, I blame Skyrim for taking Willpower out of the game as a character stat
and causing a generation to think their power could be attained by chasing dragons
You don't need to believe in a higher power to have morals.
People that suffer from addiction do NOT have control over their actions because they are literally brain damaged by it.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/how-addiction-hijacks-the-brain
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Zorvan✭✭✭✭with regards to the Elder Scrolls community, I blame Skyrim for taking Willpower out of the game as a character stat
and causing a generation to think their power could be attained by chasing dragonsI've been muted since November 2017 because of the whiny crybabies on this forum and the liberal ZOS employees coddling them.1 -
nolangrady✭✭✭randomkeyhits wrote: »Malnutrition wrote: »Crown crates are not gambling.
When I was a kid, we'd go to the local carnival and I'd always go to the booth with the grab bags. Plain paper sack, which held one of the multitude of items they had in the rotation. You pay a fee and grab a bag and you either got something you felt was neat or crap. So it was up to you if you wanted to buy another surprise grab bag. That is not gambling. You're always getting something for your money regardless of whether it ends up being pretty neat or crap.
It may be a gamble (copy pasta: take risky action in the hope of a desired result) but it is not gambling in the sense that you're risking money for a financial gain.
Getting stuff does not mean that its not gambling. It is. Very much so.
Dictionary definition of gambling "take risky action in the hope of a desired result."
Now if you are happy with getting the potions then its a cheap and successful gamble, good on you.
If you are after an apex mount or a specific reward then it can become a very expensive or unsuccessful gamble, bad luck for you.
Whether cheap or expensive, successful or not, it is still gambling
Define risky.... for people with money they choose to spend however they like, crown crates are not risky to them.0 -
Storymaster✭✭✭✭✭Alchemical wrote: »You don't need to believe in a higher power to have morals.
People that suffer from addiction do NOT have control over their actions because they are literally brain damaged by it.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/how-addiction-hijacks-the-brain
I am sure that Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey would love to use this argument to return to Hollywood, considering that each of them has a sex addiction.
Or are we going to begin cherry picking which addictions allow individuals to no longer be responsible for their own choices.
And when I am speaking about responsibility, I am most certainly not speaking about condemnation. I absolutely have compassion for people that wrestle with demons of all kinds. But at the end of the day, all of us are responsible for our own choices.
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mirta000b16_ESO✭✭✭✭ZoS, EA and Blizzard wont change it, because they operate under American Law, and not EU laws. So nothing will change in the end.
Blizzard would most definitely change it for EU servers. For World of Warcraft Blizzard spent time taking out every single corpse out of the game for China in order to make it releasable in the region. Any extra laws that China passes, the Chinese version of the game complies with them.
Personally while I know that realistically in EU it might mean that EU players will have less choice when buying stuff (expect lazy companies to just take out all the lootboxes from EU versions of the game, but not put the items up for individual purchase), or some games ceasing to operate outright in EU, I support this change. Such randomization in real life money transactions are just a nasty business that is there to pray on those that lack self control. This is why casinos have gambling laws in place, which is what UK wants to do with lootboxes actually (not ban them, but regulate them under gambling laws. It might envolve some age restrictions to purchases and such).3 -
Alchemical✭✭✭✭✭Storymaster wrote: »Alchemical wrote: »You don't need to believe in a higher power to have morals.
People that suffer from addiction do NOT have control over their actions because they are literally brain damaged by it.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/how-addiction-hijacks-the-brain
I am sure that Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey would love to use this argument to return to Hollywood, considering that each of them has a sex addiction.
Or are we going to begin cherry picking which addictions allow individuals to no longer be responsible for their own choices.
And when I am speaking about responsibility, I am most certainly not speaking about condemnation. I absolutely have compassion for people that wrestle with demons of all kinds. But at the end of the day, all of us are responsible for our own choices.
I distinctly think forcing yourself on a another human being against their will, which involves multiple levels of conscious decision, is distinctly different than being sold something neatly packaged and marketed toward you to exploit your addiction though.4 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alchemical wrote: »Storymaster wrote: »Alchemical wrote: »You don't need to believe in a higher power to have morals.
People that suffer from addiction do NOT have control over their actions because they are literally brain damaged by it.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/how-addiction-hijacks-the-brain
I am sure that Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey would love to use this argument to return to Hollywood, considering that each of them has a sex addiction.
Or are we going to begin cherry picking which addictions allow individuals to no longer be responsible for their own choices.
And when I am speaking about responsibility, I am most certainly not speaking about condemnation. I absolutely have compassion for people that wrestle with demons of all kinds. But at the end of the day, all of us are responsible for our own choices.
I distinctly think forcing yourself on a another human being against their will, which involves multiple levels of conscious decision, is distinctly different than being sold something neatly packaged and marketed toward you to exploit your addiction though.
To be fair, there is always, always someone on the internet that loves to throw ridiculous analogies into the mix. It was just he/she wanted to be that person today.1 -
crobarXIII✭✭✭Does this mean I can't buy Pokémon cards till I'm 18 now? They're just physical loot boxes.
I had the same idea about MTG. I'm in my 30's so I'm good but I got my nephew into MTG & he now plays at school with friends. So will me buying him booster packs be considered a crime in the future lolPS4-NA-1000+cp
Nightblade-Redguard-Stamina Dps : Nightblade-Argonian-Tank : Dragonknight-Imperial-Tank : Dragonknight-Darkelf-Magicka Dps
Sorcerer-Khajiit-Stamina Dps : Sorcerer-Highelf-Magicka Dps : Templar-Redguard-Stamina Dps : Templar-Highelf-Magicka Dps
Warden-Imperial-Tank : Warden-Highelf-Magicka Dps0 -
mirta000b16_ESO✭✭✭✭Storymaster wrote: »I am sure that Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey would love to use this argument to return to Hollywood, considering that each of them has a sex addiction.
Or are we going to begin cherry picking which addictions allow individuals to no longer be responsible for their own choices.
And when I am speaking about responsibility, I am most certainly not speaking about condemnation. I absolutely have compassion for people that wrestle with demons of all kinds. But at the end of the day, all of us are responsible for our own choices.
You do not let kids, or mentally unstable people into a casino. You do not sell alcohol and cigaretes to kids and mentally unstable people. Unfortunately with online loot boxes all these people require is a debit/ credit card. To compare, if your company allowed online gambling to a vulnerable individual/ child, you would be standing in court as to why you have allowed that.3 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.Alchemical wrote: ».Alchemical wrote: »Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »
The comparison to Joe Camel is spot on.
It's so easy for people who are not addicted, or don't know anyone who suffers from an addiction, to say "just don't do it lol!" They have no idea how really, truly insidious and down right evil it is.
Personally do not buy into the Alcoholics Anonymous sentiment of having to accept and submit to a higher power
Just don't do it is an affirmation -- the individual is the one who has agency and control over his or her actions,
and he or she is the one who tries to assuage personal responsibility by pinning it on others
if you cannot be around a friend without getting drunk, you have to take the responsibility to break off that friendship rather than try to claim a lack of fault due to outside influence
if you cannot be on ESO without buying Crown Crates, then start by taking some time off ESO and maybe treat yourself to some cosmetic purchases that make you feel nice in the real world
if we look at evil, especially within ourselves, and simply throw up our hands and say we are not responsible for it and someone bigger/more powerful has to handle it
then all we have done is given the power to do evil to us to another entity in the hopes that they will not capitalize on it in a similar mannerwith regards to the Elder Scrolls community, I blame Skyrim for taking Willpower out of the game as a character stat
and causing a generation to think their power could be attained by chasing dragons
You don't need to believe in a higher power to have morals.
People that suffer from addiction do NOT have control over their actions because they are literally brain damaged by it.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/how-addiction-hijacks-the-brain
Have been on, and back off, more addictive substances than most people on these forums will ever be exposed to
have been the last line of support for my old roommate when he relapsed after rehab
As your link says:Because addiction is learned and stored in the brain as memory, recovery is a slow and hesitant process in which the influence of those memories diminishes.Fortunately a number of effective treatments exist for addiction, usually combining self-help strategies, psychotherapy, and rehabilitation. For some types of addictions, medication may also help.
You have to want to quit, and you have to work to quit
and every time you simply, consciously, repeatedly recognize and take agency in doing so
you help build up your routine of resistance
"just don't do it" is an important step -- one must consciously not partake in order to help break down the habit of doing so
do not think there is medication available for gambling or gaming addiction, so maybe replace ESO time with another hobby in lieu of substance-related matters
you don't visit your dealer (ZOS) every day
while complaining that the government does not legislate well enough to keep you safe"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
But its ok for corporations to prey on children and make millions by putting scam crates in the game? Well, that does sound pretty american.
WOW, so you trust government over a corporation, how is that in any way sane? Corporations are amoral, they work for money and can be much easier managed by the population than any government, which only works for more power.
You can satiate a corporation or starve it, you cannot do either for a government which has a military and taxation power.
This is more about the EU accruing yet more power over your life and telling you what to do than any gambling issue. As far as a business preying on children, don't you think it is time parents actually do their job and regulate gaming at home?
It is always better to side with the choice of freedom as opposed to allowing any organization more power over the choices in your life.
Also, I do not understand, at all, why anyone cares about how someone else spends their money in a game and even less why, if you do not use loot crates, you would care they exist? The whole "moral high ground" argument is bunk, this is not some great societal evil, it is a flippin game. The best I see it as, is yet more busybodies who get their kicks out of exercising their will over others ergo, "I don't like something so everyone must agree and do as I do."
I find those who act this was utterly repugnant and consider you quite evil, the very antithesis of free will.
Edited by Skwor on November 22, 2017 1:00PM6 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭so for eso you need a cc so its generally adults. for trading card games, which is exactly the same thing, little kids can walk in and buy those with pocket money.
ban trading card games!
Physical blind buy packs have a fairly well established status as non-gambling. The reasoning goes that you are buying a physical product and will get what you paid for, even if it's not the specific possible outcome you wanted. The same is not true for lockboxes, where there's no intrinsic value for a digital item.
Ironically, the same, "get what you pay for," probably protects online CCGs.2 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭crobarXIII wrote: »Does this mean I can't buy Pokémon cards till I'm 18 now? They're just physical loot boxes.
I had the same idea about MTG. I'm in my 30's so I'm good but I got my nephew into MTG & he now plays at school with friends. So will me buying him booster packs be considered a crime in the future lol
And let's not even go into the Kinder Surprise Eggs which people of all ages from toddlers up (OMG!) quite enjoy. I've yet to see herds of gambling addicted toddlers (that *would* be scary! And no, don't try the "well they probably whinge for them"...indeed but they also whinge for all sorts of candy).
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »crobarXIII wrote: »Does this mean I can't buy Pokémon cards till I'm 18 now? They're just physical loot boxes.
I had the same idea about MTG. I'm in my 30's so I'm good but I got my nephew into MTG & he now plays at school with friends. So will me buying him booster packs be considered a crime in the future lol
And let's not even go into the Kinder Surprise Eggs which people of all ages from toddlers up (OMG!) quite enjoy. I've yet to see herds of gambling addicted toddlers (that *would* be scary! And no, don't try the "well they probably whinge for them"...indeed but they also whinge for all sorts of candy).
I would imagine they would use the same arguement thatMcDonalds happy meals probably make. You are not buying to gamble for a prize. You are paying for the food/candy. The prize is just a free prize.
Heck Zos could learn from the happy meal, you can buy the prizes in them alone for a specific price.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »The sooner these boxes stop, the industry collapses.
Which is, of course, why CDProjekt Red is in such dire straights, with their games failing left and right... oh, wait.5 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »crobarXIII wrote: »Does this mean I can't buy Pokémon cards till I'm 18 now? They're just physical loot boxes.
I had the same idea about MTG. I'm in my 30's so I'm good but I got my nephew into MTG & he now plays at school with friends. So will me buying him booster packs be considered a crime in the future lol
And let's not even go into the Kinder Surprise Eggs which people of all ages from toddlers up (OMG!) quite enjoy. I've yet to see herds of gambling addicted toddlers (that *would* be scary! And no, don't try the "well they probably whinge for them"...indeed but they also whinge for all sorts of candy).
I would imagine they would use the same arguement thatMcDonalds happy meals probably make. You are not buying to gamble for a prize. You are paying for the food/candy. The prize is just a free prize.
Heck Zos could learn from the happy meal, you can buy the prizes in them alone for a specific price.
I did not know that! I'll remember that in future, thanks.
I'm kind of wondering if McDonalds in Belgium is also having Monopoly week as we are here in Germany and, if so, how they feel about that...
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbp9N4BnaI4This discussion has been closed.