UPDATED: So... about those Crown Crates in light of Belgium's ruling that they are gambling

Motherball

VerboseQuips wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

I feel bad for people that have legitimate problems with self control. Unfortunately, taking monetary advantage of these people is a cornerstone of modern capitalism.

I would even go as far as to say that those self-control problems are industrially crafted by advertising and medias under capitalism.

I absolutely agree. And its the same with any modern commercial industry. Look at the exorbitant costs of medical insurance charged based on the chance you might get sick or injured. Many people cant afford it and are literally gambling with their lives.

badmojo

I dont think its gambling. Its like buying a pack of trading cards, something I did a lot when I was a kid. Sometimes you get good cards worth decent money, most of the time you get doubles.

I am surprised how many places don't allow online gambling. I took it for granted that I can play poker on my phone for real money, I didnt realize so many people cant do that legally. Score one for Canada I guess.

AnviOfVai

badmojo wrote: »

I dont think its gambling. Its like buying a pack of trading cards, something I did a lot when I was a kid. Sometimes you get good cards worth decent money, most of the time you get doubles.

I am surprised how many places don't allow online gambling. I took it for granted that I can play poker on my phone for real money, I didnt realize so many people cant do that legally. Score one for Canada I guess.

Ahh Those trading cards..where it all started. Pokemon it's all your fault!

billp_ESO

"We don't close bars to protect alcoholics."

Actually, we do. If you are obviously already drunk, bars are not supposed to serve you anymore. Bars cannot serve minors. Bars have to close at specific times. etc, etc.

There are many rules in place about bars.

Gambling crates are designed to appeal to people who like to gamble. That is a fact. I personally don't care for them, so I don't buy them, even though I have thousands of crowns.

But it should be illegal to accept real cash for a gambling game, without posting the odds of winning.

badmojo

billp_ESO wrote: »

"We don't close bars to protect alcoholics."

Actually, we do. If you are obviously already drunk, bars are not supposed to serve you anymore. Bars cannot serve minors. Bars have to close at specific times. etc, etc.

There are many rules in place about bars.

Gambling crates are designed to appeal to people who like to gamble. That is a fact. I personally don't care for them, so I don't buy them, even though I have thousands of crowns.

But it should be illegal to accept real cash for a gambling game, without posting the odds of winning.

What is posting the odds going to accomplish? We already have community estimations of the odds based on an addon that tracks crate openings. People know the odds are terrible...they still buy crates.

I dont understand this obsession with posting the odds.

Libonotus

Casterial wrote: »

Well.... Quite stupid to try and ban anything in a game in an entire country.

Loot boxes, yes they're gambling. So are bags in-game? If they wanna ban them then the companies like Blizzard may say "Overwatch makes no money here. Close the servers."

I don’t think you picked up on the phrasing “they will be seeking that the EU ban them” should the EU agree, it’ll affect the whole of the EU, UK included as they’re not divorced yet.

dodgehopper_ESO

Iselin wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

ZoS' defense will probably be that the gambling crates do not return anything of value. You cannot exchange anything in the crates for real money. So it isn't really gambling, since there is nothing to win.

The three points that everyone in the gaming industry relies on are:

1. Real currency is not used (it's why every game that does this has an intermediary currency such as "Crowns"),
2. The goods obtained have no real world value, and
3. You always get something in the loot box

What the Belgian govt. (and now also a couple of Hawaiian Representatives) is saying is "nice weasling and all, but it walks like a duck and talks like a duck."

What I have never understood is this: If its illegal for the local Catholic Church to run a bingo night for the elderly, why is it legal for MMO's to sell fake coin to purchase some kind of 'ticket' which will produce a random 'reward'. It sounds an awful lot like Grandma's bingo night.

I'll be honest though I find it excessively stupid that the government offers 'licenses' for things like this just like I think it is ridiculous that they regulate so many other businesses with licenses like 'alcohol' or 'hair cutting'. Given the laws on the books though it would be interesting to note exactly WHY this doesn't fall in the same realm as grandma's bingo night. (My only guess is that they have purchased gaming licenses in all these different jurisdictions? (That has to be one hell of a legal nightmare - I hope the cost of the legal team, art design and paper pushing is outweighed by profits).

umagon

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

Now Hawaii
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=_akwfRuL4os

Who is next to jump in?

The fire rises.
I wonder how mad other gaming companies are at EA right now.

VerboseQuips

badmojo wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

"We don't close bars to protect alcoholics."

Actually, we do. If you are obviously already drunk, bars are not supposed to serve you anymore. Bars cannot serve minors. Bars have to close at specific times. etc, etc.

There are many rules in place about bars.

Gambling crates are designed to appeal to people who like to gamble. That is a fact. I personally don't care for them, so I don't buy them, even though I have thousands of crowns.

But it should be illegal to accept real cash for a gambling game, without posting the odds of winning.

What is posting the odds going to accomplish? We already have community estimations of the odds based on an addon that tracks crate openings. People know the odds are terrible...they still buy crates.

I dont understand this obsession with posting the odds.

First, it could ensure that these odds aren't algorithmically tweaked for each player using psychological data gathered during the play, in order to ensure that a maximal ammount of money gets taken without crossing "tolerance thresholds" in the involved players. It would at least do that: ensuring that everyone faces the same odds (provided the said odds would be actually auditable). This wouldn't make the practice respectable, but it would definitely diminish the possibility of it being horrendously inhumane.

Motherball

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

ZoS' defense will probably be that the gambling crates do not return anything of value. You cannot exchange anything in the crates for real money. So it isn't really gambling, since there is nothing to win.

The three points that everyone in the gaming industry relies on are:

1. Real currency is not used (it's why every game that does this has an intermediary currency such as "Crowns"),
2. The goods obtained have no real world value, and
3. You always get something in the loot box

What the Belgian govt. (and now also a couple of Hawaiian Representatives) is saying is "nice weasling and all, but it walks like a duck and talks like a duck."

What I have never understood is this: If its illegal for the local Catholic Church to run a bingo night for the elderly, why is it legal for MMO's to sell fake coin to purchase some kind of 'ticket' which will produce a random 'reward'. It sounds an awful lot like Grandma's bingo night.

I'll be honest though I find it excessively stupid that the government offers 'licenses' for things like this just like I think it is ridiculous that they regulate so many other businesses with licenses like 'alcohol' or 'hair cutting'. Given the laws on the books though it would be interesting to note exactly WHY this doesn't fall in the same realm as grandma's bingo night. (My only guess is that they have purchased gaming licenses in all these different jurisdictions? (That has to be one hell of a legal nightmare - I hope the cost of the legal team, art design and paper pushing is outweighed by profits).

Grandmas bingo isnt a billion dollar industry. Money talks.

AnviOfVai

I spend loads of money on Lootcrates, I'm sure others do too, but in my mind I have to have those limited items. There is a CHANCE that I can get that item but the chance is so low that I know its pretty pathetic for me to buy them. But I can't actually help myself from doing it. Once I buy one, I will buy another, and another. I stay out of arcades too...my gosh..

I would prefer that I could not see the crates in the store at all. Lock them somehow, for my account, or make the odds higher than what they are (but this would still make me buy them.... I can't win.. haha!)

badmojo

VerboseQuips wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

"We don't close bars to protect alcoholics."

Actually, we do. If you are obviously already drunk, bars are not supposed to serve you anymore. Bars cannot serve minors. Bars have to close at specific times. etc, etc.

There are many rules in place about bars.

Gambling crates are designed to appeal to people who like to gamble. That is a fact. I personally don't care for them, so I don't buy them, even though I have thousands of crowns.

But it should be illegal to accept real cash for a gambling game, without posting the odds of winning.

What is posting the odds going to accomplish? We already have community estimations of the odds based on an addon that tracks crate openings. People know the odds are terrible...they still buy crates.

I dont understand this obsession with posting the odds.

First, it could ensure that these odds aren't algorithmically tweaked for each player using psychological data gathered during the play, in order to ensure that a maximal ammount of money gets taken without crossing "tolerance thresholds" in the involved players. It would at least do that: ensuring that everyone faces the same odds (provided the said odds would be actually auditable). This wouldn't make the practice respectable, but it would definitely diminish the possibility of it being horrendously inhumane.

Oh. The game is rigged? I havent seen anything to indicate that. I guess anything is possible, but ot just seems like bad business. If that was ever proven it would be horrible for their image.

VerboseQuips

badmojo wrote: »

VerboseQuips wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

"We don't close bars to protect alcoholics."

Actually, we do. If you are obviously already drunk, bars are not supposed to serve you anymore. Bars cannot serve minors. Bars have to close at specific times. etc, etc.

There are many rules in place about bars.

Gambling crates are designed to appeal to people who like to gamble. That is a fact. I personally don't care for them, so I don't buy them, even though I have thousands of crowns.

But it should be illegal to accept real cash for a gambling game, without posting the odds of winning.

What is posting the odds going to accomplish? We already have community estimations of the odds based on an addon that tracks crate openings. People know the odds are terrible...they still buy crates.

I dont understand this obsession with posting the odds.

First, it could ensure that these odds aren't algorithmically tweaked for each player using psychological data gathered during the play, in order to ensure that a maximal ammount of money gets taken without crossing "tolerance thresholds" in the involved players. It would at least do that: ensuring that everyone faces the same odds (provided the said odds would be actually auditable). This wouldn't make the practice respectable, but it would definitely diminish the possibility of it being horrendously inhumane.

Oh. The game is rigged? I havent seen anything to indicate that. I guess anything is possible, but ot just seems like bad business. If that was ever proven it would be horrible for their image.

I do not say it's rigged (and I do hope it's not), I say that not posting the odds can give the impression that it could be, especially with the ammount of behavioral data they would have been able to gather since launch if so they wished. If they did post the odds, I guess people would feel safer.

Slick_007

Jade1986 wrote: »

But its ok for corporations to prey on children and make millions by putting scam crates in the game? Well, that does sound pretty american.

of course. when you dont actually have an argument, call it a scam. how is it a scam? you know exactly what it is, up front, it does not misrepresent anything (you cant say the same). however you look at it, it is NOT a scam. You dont like it, too bad. Does not make it a scam. If you hope to have any credibility in this debate, you need to stop lying.

dodgehopper_ESO

Motherball wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

ZoS' defense will probably be that the gambling crates do not return anything of value. You cannot exchange anything in the crates for real money. So it isn't really gambling, since there is nothing to win.

The three points that everyone in the gaming industry relies on are:

1. Real currency is not used (it's why every game that does this has an intermediary currency such as "Crowns"),
2. The goods obtained have no real world value, and
3. You always get something in the loot box

What the Belgian govt. (and now also a couple of Hawaiian Representatives) is saying is "nice weasling and all, but it walks like a duck and talks like a duck."

What I have never understood is this: If its illegal for the local Catholic Church to run a bingo night for the elderly, why is it legal for MMO's to sell fake coin to purchase some kind of 'ticket' which will produce a random 'reward'. It sounds an awful lot like Grandma's bingo night.

I'll be honest though I find it excessively stupid that the government offers 'licenses' for things like this just like I think it is ridiculous that they regulate so many other businesses with licenses like 'alcohol' or 'hair cutting'. Given the laws on the books though it would be interesting to note exactly WHY this doesn't fall in the same realm as grandma's bingo night. (My only guess is that they have purchased gaming licenses in all these different jurisdictions? (That has to be one hell of a legal nightmare - I hope the cost of the legal team, art design and paper pushing is outweighed by profits).

Grandmas bingo isnt a billion dollar industry. Money talks.

That's right - and the greed of State tax agencies like in California talk bigger. Don't you think the government enforcement man is sitting there staring this kind of thing down like the cartoon wolf with slavering jaws and sharpening his knives? I think your point about billion dollar agencies speaks more to my confusion, unless of course the entire industry is paying off thousands of revenue gathering individuals on at least 4 continents. I just don't see it being feasible. I'm somewhat assuming the MMO companies are paying some kind of license to do this, and it sounds like a Gordian knot to figure out.

Trepis26

I think the magic booster pack is a good analogy for the crown crates; for every pack or crate you buy, you get some random rewards. IMO that separates it from gambling. I see the mention of the Radiant Apex rewards frequently as if this changes anything.

The argument seems to be ' Since I ONLY want the mount, I'm forced to Gamble with every crate I buy' however if someone said 'Since I ONLY want one specific magic card, I'm forced to Gamble with every pack I buy' I don't think card packs would suddenly become gambling.

I also see folks talking about how if only they would sell the Radiant Apex Rewards for crown gems , this would solve the gambling aspect and to that I say be careful what you wish for.
What if they showed up for 40 000 crown gems? or 100 000 ?
What I simple way to give the fans exactly what they asked for and exploit the sunk cost fallacy with regards to the whales.

Last thought I had with regards to addiction is this, If every lootbox and microtransation were removed for every single video game overnight; It would not make one single difference in the lives of anyone who truly has a gambling problem. I say this as someone who has been through treatment and has been able to live a sober life. Back when I was using, even if they had closed every single bar , I would have just bought my booze at the liquor store. My sobriety came from accepting my own responsibility and taking ownership of my actions.
I sometimes wonder where I would be right now if my counselors had spent there time telling us its not our fault, we can't possibly ever expect to be able to control ourselves, that the evil liquor companies have been exploiting us; actually I don't wonder, those are called permission statements, and they amount to the worst form of enabling .

I'm sure gaming companies use psychology to entice players into microtransactions ; is that 'fair' ? not entirely but I'd say its as fair as any other marketing ; is it even less fair to folks with a predisposition to gamble ? probably. But heres the thing, if someone wants to over come their addiction one of the most important things to accept is that the world is not fair, and will NOT change to accommodate you ; It IS possible to get sober, but it requires you to own your actions in Spite of an unfair world.

Slick_007

Dexxadude wrote: »

I thought of asking this question myself on the forums and found the damn post smack bang on top lol!.
Question is ZoS, will you get rid of this behaviour before your forced or do it willingly since you've noticed how much everyone hates them.

but not everyone does hate them. you're on page 6 and you still cant even tell that? some of us have personal responsibility.
have i bought crates in the past? yes
will i buy more? unlikely.
do i think they should be banned? hell no

Slick_007

Turelus wrote: »

I know it's cool to jump on this bandwagon, but sometimes people want actions taken because it makes things better. ESO would be better without crates, some of us remember the time before the crates.

taking away peoples right to choose is not better. ever. sure, you want action taken. but take some other action. like dealing with those people who need help, not screwing it up for everyone else.

Jade1986

Skwor wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

But its ok for corporations to prey on children and make millions by putting scam crates in the game? Well, that does sound pretty american.

WOW, so you trust government over a corporation, how is that in any way sane? Corporations are amoral, they work for money and can be much easier managed by the population than any government, which only works for more power.

You can satiate a corporation or starve it, you cannot do either for a government which has a military and taxation power.

This is more about the EU accruing yet more power over your life and telling you what to do than any gambling issue. As far as a business preying on children, don't you think it is time parents actually do their job and regulate gaming at home?

It is always better to side with the choice of freedom as opposed to allowing any organization more power over the choices in your life.

Also, I do not understand, at all, why anyone cares about how someone else spends their money in a game and even less why, if you do not use loot crates, you would care they exist? The whole "moral high ground" argument is bunk, this is not some great societal evil, it is a flippin game. The best I see it as, is yet more busybodies who get their kicks out of exercising their will over others ergo, "I don't like something so everyone must agree and do as I do."

I find those who act this was utterly repugnant and consider you quite evil, the very antithesis of free will.

The difference is, my government takes care of me. Pays my medical bills, gives me paid vacations, helps me out if my employer ( a corporation ) decides that they need to pay their ceo's a larger bonus that year, helps parents out if they are down on their luck with their children, etc, etc. Ill take a responsible government over corporate greed any day. And if you guys elect someone who is the definition of greed and corruption, that is on you. But yeah, I guess corporate greed and corporate welfare somehow is better than having a government there to back you up if things go sideways. PS, the US is run by corporations, so if there is corruption there, you know where to look.

Motherball

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

ZoS' defense will probably be that the gambling crates do not return anything of value. You cannot exchange anything in the crates for real money. So it isn't really gambling, since there is nothing to win.

The three points that everyone in the gaming industry relies on are:

1. Real currency is not used (it's why every game that does this has an intermediary currency such as "Crowns"),
2. The goods obtained have no real world value, and
3. You always get something in the loot box

What the Belgian govt. (and now also a couple of Hawaiian Representatives) is saying is "nice weasling and all, but it walks like a duck and talks like a duck."

What I have never understood is this: If its illegal for the local Catholic Church to run a bingo night for the elderly, why is it legal for MMO's to sell fake coin to purchase some kind of 'ticket' which will produce a random 'reward'. It sounds an awful lot like Grandma's bingo night.

I'll be honest though I find it excessively stupid that the government offers 'licenses' for things like this just like I think it is ridiculous that they regulate so many other businesses with licenses like 'alcohol' or 'hair cutting'. Given the laws on the books though it would be interesting to note exactly WHY this doesn't fall in the same realm as grandma's bingo night. (My only guess is that they have purchased gaming licenses in all these different jurisdictions? (That has to be one hell of a legal nightmare - I hope the cost of the legal team, art design and paper pushing is outweighed by profits).

Grandmas bingo isnt a billion dollar industry. Money talks.

That's right - and the greed of State tax agencies like in California talk bigger. Don't you think the government enforcement man is sitting there staring this kind of thing down like the cartoon wolf with slavering jaws and sharpening his knives? I think your point about billion dollar agencies speaks more to my confusion, unless of course the entire industry is paying off thousands of revenue gathering individuals on at least 4 continents. I just don't see it being feasible. I'm somewhat assuming the MMO companies are paying some kind of license to do this, and it sounds like a Gordian knot to figure out.

Im not sure if the gaming companies have actual lobbyists to appeal to politicians, like oil comapnies do in order to curb more efficient fuel methods in favor of profit despite the adverse effects on the planet, but I assume it works very similarly. Someone is making a bunch of money and has the power or influence (or knows someone who does) to make it continue, despite public outcry.

Jade1986

Farscape76 wrote: »

Personal Responsibility ... each person is ...gasp... responsible for their own actions. It is not governments job to be our mommy and tell us what we can and can't purchase.

If you can't handle gambling seek help but you shouldn't expect a government to make the world safe for you. We don't close bars to protect alcoholics.

Grow the f*** up snowflakes

Classic. " you should have personal responsibility , go get help "

ok , Ill go get help. Wait, I cant afford it, because the government took away my healthcare.

" Get a job then freeloader!"

Ok, but I cant get a job because I am disabled.

" Then go to the doctor snowflake"

Ok, but I cant afford it because the government took my healthcare away.

" Then stop being lazy !"

Ok, lets ignore the fact that I am disabled, I cant apply for a job or look for one because I have no money for gas , a cell phone, or internet. Can I get some help? I have kids after all.

" No, stop expecting handouts! And you shouldnt have had kids then!"

Well I didnt know I was pregnant until 3 months in and abortion was made illegal in my state, and since planned parenthood was closed, I couldnt afford condoms

You guys get where this is going.

recycle and repeat.

Seriously, in a perfect world everyone wouldnt have problems , everyone would have a fantastic job, no one would be born with a predisposition to addiction, etc. But that isnt the case. Is it? Maybe people should stop voting against their best interests?

Eddyble

AnviOfVai wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

I dont think its gambling. Its like buying a pack of trading cards, something I did a lot when I was a kid. Sometimes you get good cards worth decent money, most of the time you get doubles.

I am surprised how many places don't allow online gambling. I took it for granted that I can play poker on my phone for real money, I didnt realize so many people cant do that legally. Score one for Canada I guess.

Ahh Those trading cards..where it all started. Pokemon it's all your fault!

I personally could care less about crates and loot boxes, if they left to be replaced by direct purchase, cool. If not, cool. I don't see it as gambling but acknowledge its addictive. If there's something I like in them I'll spend a few dollars to try for it... I was a collector of pretty much everything including trading/gaming cards so its relatable. I just stop when I don't feel like spending any more money, so far like 20-40 dollars (per crate season) or so.

BUT, worth mentioning regarding trading cards, its not exactly a good comparison. Because all those 15 card packs had a guaranteed drop rate. Usually it was 1 rare, 3 uncommon, the rest common...that's not exactly the case in ESO (or Overwatch which I also play), the drops from crates don't seem to guarantee a "Rare" in each crate.

VerboseQuips

Eddyble wrote: »

AnviOfVai wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

I dont think its gambling. Its like buying a pack of trading cards, something I did a lot when I was a kid. Sometimes you get good cards worth decent money, most of the time you get doubles.

I am surprised how many places don't allow online gambling. I took it for granted that I can play poker on my phone for real money, I didnt realize so many people cant do that legally. Score one for Canada I guess.

Ahh Those trading cards..where it all started. Pokemon it's all your fault!

I personally could care less about crates and loot boxes, if they left to be replaced by direct purchase, cool. If not, cool. I don't see it as gambling but acknowledge its addictive. If there's something I like in them I'll spend a few dollars to try for it... I was a collector of pretty much everything including trading/gaming cards so its relatable. I just stop when I don't feel like spending any more money, so far like 20-40 dollars (per crate season) or so.

BUT, worth mentioning regarding trading cards, its not exactly a good comparison. Because all those 15 card packs had a guaranteed drop rate. Usually it was 1 rare, 3 uncommon, the rest common...that's not exactly the case in ESO (or Overwatch which I also play), the drops from crates don't seem to guarantee a "Rare" in each crate.

Also, unwanted or duplicate cards can be traded for wanted and missing ones, or sold for money. It's not the case with crate loot.

Elsonso

AnviOfVai wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

I dont think its gambling. Its like buying a pack of trading cards, something I did a lot when I was a kid. Sometimes you get good cards worth decent money, most of the time you get doubles.

I am surprised how many places don't allow online gambling. I took it for granted that I can play poker on my phone for real money, I didnt realize so many people cant do that legally. Score one for Canada I guess.

Ahh Those trading cards..where it all started. Pokemon it's all your fault!

Pokemon? No. Magic: The Gathering. Humble roots for what it is today.

Nyx2

Slick_007 wrote: »

Dexxadude wrote: »

I thought of asking this question myself on the forums and found the damn post smack bang on top lol!.
Question is ZoS, will you get rid of this behaviour before your forced or do it willingly since you've noticed how much everyone hates them.

but not everyone does hate them. you're on page 6 and you still cant even tell that? some of us have personal responsibility.
have i bought crates in the past? yes
will i buy more? unlikely.
do i think they should be banned? hell no

So you know they're crap and still feel the need to protect business that's unfavourable for costumers? You're likely one of those people that just doesn't care about the content of the crates so you don't care how awfully it is implemented. The biggest crate supporters in these threads have ironically always been people that don't buy crown crates. "You go ahead and keep the game alive with your money while I get to spout nonsense about freedom and how america works." The paying costumer is who really gets to decide what succeeds, not the companies. Of course this is all circumvented when it comes to scam.

As to the many reasons why they're scam: if you actually seek useless consumables again and again then you'll get more value out of directly buying said consumable in the crown store. The gems lure people in with a promise to trade things they don't like for what they're really after. Except each instalment of crates is crammed full of junk so that that rarely happens and even if it does, the amount of gems you get out of them is plain pathetic. This false sense of optimism is most definitely scam as it mostly targets rich, naive or young people.

Farscape76

lordrichter wrote: »

AnviOfVai wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

I dont think its gambling. Its like buying a pack of trading cards, something I did a lot when I was a kid. Sometimes you get good cards worth decent money, most of the time you get doubles.

I am surprised how many places don't allow online gambling. I took it for granted that I can play poker on my phone for real money, I didnt realize so many people cant do that legally. Score one for Canada I guess.

Ahh Those trading cards..where it all started. Pokemon it's all your fault!

Pokemon? No. Magic: The Gathering. Humble roots for what it is today.

Actually try Baseball cards that was the original ....hmm funny no one went to the government crying because they didn't get a mickey mantle in every pack back in that time. Wonder what that generation had that we don't? oh yeah spines and a will to rely on themselves.

SugaComa

This isn't gambling, if it was things like panini sticker books aimed at children would also be banned

Gambling is only gambling if real world money is used to make an opportunity to win or lose real world money, as loot boxes never offer the opportunity to win real world money and prizes are restricted for use solely within the game, such in-game features would not be licensable gambling.

Wing

just so everyone is aware

there ruling hinges on the concept that you need items in the crates to proceed / do better, and if that is the case then it becomes a game of chance and is therefore gambling.

as ESO and almost every other game limits crates to cosmetic items they have nothing to worry about, EA is the only big company to actually have pay to win crates,

and for those bashing on ESO it has a very tame system in comparison as you can refund stuff for gems to just straight up buy what you want (except for the dumb exclusive mounts I admit)

and while I would prefer to just see everything in the store, if we must have crates I'm glad they are handled as well as they are.

SugaComa

Runefang wrote: »

Does this mean I can't buy Pokémon cards till I'm 18 now? They're just physical loot boxes.

Or panini sticker books and packs of stickers

SugaComa

randomkeyhits wrote: »

Malnutrition wrote: »

Crown crates are not gambling.

When I was a kid, we'd go to the local carnival and I'd always go to the booth with the grab bags. Plain paper sack, which held one of the multitude of items they had in the rotation. You pay a fee and grab a bag and you either got something you felt was neat or crap. So it was up to you if you wanted to buy another surprise grab bag. That is not gambling. You're always getting something for your money regardless of whether it ends up being pretty neat or crap.

It may be a gamble (copy pasta: take risky action in the hope of a desired result) but it is not gambling in the sense that you're risking money for a financial gain.

Getting stuff does not mean that its not gambling. It is. Very much so.

Dictionary definition of gambling "take risky action in the hope of a desired result."

Now if you are happy with getting the potions then its a cheap and successful gamble, good on you.

If you are after an apex mount or a specific reward then it can become a very expensive or unsuccessful gamble, bad luck for you.

Whether cheap or expensive, successful or not, it is still gambling

You need to understand the difference between what is deemed gambling and licensable gambling

Only gambling that involves the loss and gain or real world money is licensable

As loot crates only offer rewards that function with in the game they are not governed by licensable gambling laws currently

That may change ... But right now they're not illegal and you have to consider the consequences of such a law change

Those sticker packs you buy kids for their sticker books , will become illegal, kinder surprise toys will become illegal, random toys in McDonald's happy meal will become illegal

Maybe what we should be doing is making sure that the people with access to purchasing these loot crates are adults and regulations put upon how many can be bought in a specific time period on each account

That way they would still be better regulated than most licensed gambling activities are