UPDATED: So... about those Crown Crates in light of Belgium's ruling that they are gambling

Samadhi

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

True, you could be entirely lying about having any knowledge of Germany while the other poster could be telling the truth


Indeed you could, that was the point of my post.
Every single person in this thread could be white as the feet of snow outside my doorstep
and the individual could still have had the experience mentioned

Rather than presuming everyone is lying about their experiences to drive a political point,
am willing to generally give the benefit of the doubt
but maybe that is just a by-product of my own efforts at honesty,
and if dishonesty were my way of life, distrust of others as potentially dishonest would be as well

Yes. The previous poster used that experience to try and automatically win an argument about freedom in Germany. You declared them the victor simply because "don't doubt other peoples experiences". ...

The poster used personal experience with regards to Germany
to respond to another individuals personal experience with regards to Germany
then you brought in your point of view as a third personal experience with regards to Germany

personally did not declare them 'the victor,' because all of us who debate or argue on the internet are losers anyway
just happen to be a Canadian loser on my end
and despite my mother and grandmother having gone to Germany to visit family (my Grandma was post-WWII immigrant family to Canada)
have no personal experience with the country

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

...
Do not use personal experiences when arguing online and do not automatically accept personal experiences as truth. The moment you do accept personal experiences as absolute truth, the argument just boils down to talks from emotion and privilege points.

Maybe try to stop treating every discussion as an argument with a goal
and simply engage with people and learn about the variety of life experiences we have
you may find things less stressful that way

it is not as though our discussions in this thread are going to bear any weight in swinging the issue in favour of banning crown crates or not

monktoasty

Of course they are businesses and of course there are people who pay extreme amounts.

But as a busness..the tides are turning against them look at ea and bf2..you can only cater to the rich for so long before your game is affected and players take notice and get mad.

They need to..as a business..start doing better customer retention and loyalty decisions.

Cadbury

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

[

True, you could be entirely lying about having any knowledge of Germany while the other poster could be telling the truth


Indeed you could, that was the point of my post.
Every single person in this thread could be white as the feet of snow outside my doorstep
and the individual could still have had the experience mentioned

Rather than presuming everyone is lying about their experiences to drive a political point,
am willing to generally give the benefit of the doubt
but maybe that is just a by-product of my own efforts at honesty,
and if dishonesty were my way of life, distrust of others as potentially dishonest would be as well

Yes. The previous poster used that experience to try and automatically win an argument about freedom in Germany. You declared them the victor simply because "don't doubt other peoples experiences". This is a non argument. Media censorship was a far better argument as it did not stem from a personal experience and did not try to do emotional manipulation. We had data that we had access to and that we can verify.

Do not use personal experiences when arguing online and do not automatically accept personal experiences as truth.

"Everyone lies"

Anyways OT, we'll have to just wait and see what the outcome of this decision is. Again, I'm not sure the changes (be that as it may) will be as dramatic or anything quite like some are saying here. EA has always been called an "evil" corporation by gamers and media, so this will probably reinforce that thought after this.

Whatever happens will surely be intriguing.

mirta000b16_ESO

Samadhi wrote: »

Maybe try to stop treating every discussion as an argument with a goal
and simply engage with people and learn about the variety of life experiences we have

If I would try and use forums for a game as a way to learn about cultures, countries and personal experiences, most of my information on said aspects would be untrue. Seems rather counter intuitive to do that

Samadhi

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Maybe try to stop treating every discussion as an argument with a goal
and simply engage with people and learn about the variety of life experiences we have

If I would try and use forums for a game as a way to learn about cultures, countries and personal experiences, most of my information on said aspects would be untrue. Seems rather counter intuitive to do that

that is why my reference was to people as individuals with individual life experiences
rather than trying to group culture and countries into homogeneous groups
for me, treating people as people is relatively intuitive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzGnX-MbYE4

Doctordarkspawn

@Balamor

"As my sig says....

“Gambling” requires a wager to win something of tangible value. If the thing won can’t be sold or monetized, it isn’t gambling Period.

Any legislator who thinks that a judge or court will side with them over this is an idiot and should resign immediately. Any player who thinks that this will stop Crown Crates or Loot boxes dream on...if anything it will backfire and end up giving developers even more leeway to market how they see fit."

---

(This is a quote from Balamor. I couldn't find the original post, so I just copypasted and am going to respond to it.)


They are gambling.

"Tangeble value" can be constrewed as damn near anything, and in the digital age, that 'thing of value' is more often then not digital goods.

Eitherway, considering the blast it's finally geting from politicians? I dont think that the revision of the meaning of such terms in the eyes of the law is a pipe dream. It's inevitable.

As for you personally.

Defense of these practices will not entice ZOS to defend you for participating in them. If this is the reason you keep jumping to they're defense, that -is- a pipe dream. It is still a no-win senario to take a stance on it.

Jade1986

Rickter wrote: »

I mean, you guys look at this like a game but its not. its a business. Games as a Service. You signed a TERMS OF SERVICE, they charge you for that ongoing service.

This is a HUGE corporate entity. Zenimax in fact is the LARGEST privately owned corporation in America and board of directors has one of POTUS Donald Trump's brothers on it.

Get that through your skulls. The crown crates, the crown store, the limited time B.S. - its all a formulated marketing team that pushes sales initiatives and direction to the dev team. The actual ZOS dev team is in the unfortunate position that they have to design these crown store models and effects for the game and they take PRIORITY over actual game development due to deadlines for these crown items.

"Sales drives the bus" - any corporate lacky knows this. Sales gets what they want. They make the money to sign the checks.

Get iwth the damn program. this isnt a game, its an interactive SERVICE that YOU PAY FOR. want hte prices to come down? then the HANDFUL of people that spend $300 on crowns every TWO WEEKS needs to STOP.

man im getting fired up. Im glad you guys have SOOOOOOO much money but you driving prices up and continuing the viciousness that these corporations inflict on us sheep fodder consumers

Well that explains the greed and lack of any effort to fix the game and bring out exciting new features.

Jade1986

Samadhi wrote: »

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

That doesn't give you free reign to outright dismiss discrimination. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't make it less real. It happens.

Edit: Sorry to those reading this for going offtopic, but handwaving away racism and discrimination doesn't sit well with me.

Samadhi wrote: »

To be fair, he or she was explicitly responding to a point made that was indicating that, despite one poster not being confronted by police for the colour of his or her skin, that does not invalidate the probability another was
that does not mean the poster made the assumption of anyone else here, including yourself, being particularly privileged

basically the take home message is along the lines of
just because 'black' people are treated equally to 'white' people in a city, does not automatically mean 'brown' or 'tan' people are
just because a city is safe for lgbtq2+ individuals does not automatically make it safe for other races

discrimination takes place in myriad forms,
and it can be easy to ignore or discredit discrimination against other minorities
when being in a minority group that is in a comparatively fortunate position

I also don't have to believe everything a random poster says, especially when he is trying to make a point. I know Germany quite well. Germany is fairly not alike USA and most definitely not like an Eastern European country. They're very not discriminating in regards to skin colour, which is why I rather call bollocks on a story told to make a point.
...
To both:
I could tell you many things about me that may or may not be true. It would be more idiotic for you two to take my word as truth, than it would be to dismiss it.

True, you could be entirely lying about having any knowledge of Germany while the other poster could be telling the truth

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

...
To the second quote:
These words would not carry any more or less validity by the way depending on my skin colour, as I could be the same colour as the poster here and have different life experiences, which is why "don't say this unless you're in their minority group!" as a statement carries no weight.
...

Indeed you could, that was the point of my post.
Every single person in this thread could be white as the feet of snow outside my doorstep
and the individual could still have had the experience mentioned

Rather than presuming everyone is lying about their experiences to drive a political point,
am willing to generally give the benefit of the doubt
but maybe that is just a by-product of my own efforts at honesty,
and if dishonesty were my way of life, distrust of others as potentially dishonest would be as well

What, should I post a picture of me next to a german post office? ....

Samadhi

Jade1986 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

That doesn't give you free reign to outright dismiss discrimination. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't make it less real. It happens.

Edit: Sorry to those reading this for going offtopic, but handwaving away racism and discrimination doesn't sit well with me.

Samadhi wrote: »

To be fair, he or she was explicitly responding to a point made that was indicating that, despite one poster not being confronted by police for the colour of his or her skin, that does not invalidate the probability another was
that does not mean the poster made the assumption of anyone else here, including yourself, being particularly privileged

basically the take home message is along the lines of
just because 'black' people are treated equally to 'white' people in a city, does not automatically mean 'brown' or 'tan' people are
just because a city is safe for lgbtq2+ individuals does not automatically make it safe for other races

discrimination takes place in myriad forms,
and it can be easy to ignore or discredit discrimination against other minorities
when being in a minority group that is in a comparatively fortunate position

I also don't have to believe everything a random poster says, especially when he is trying to make a point. I know Germany quite well. Germany is fairly not alike USA and most definitely not like an Eastern European country. They're very not discriminating in regards to skin colour, which is why I rather call bollocks on a story told to make a point.
...
To both:
I could tell you many things about me that may or may not be true. It would be more idiotic for you two to take my word as truth, than it would be to dismiss it.

True, you could be entirely lying about having any knowledge of Germany while the other poster could be telling the truth

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

...
To the second quote:
These words would not carry any more or less validity by the way depending on my skin colour, as I could be the same colour as the poster here and have different life experiences, which is why "don't say this unless you're in their minority group!" as a statement carries no weight.
...

Indeed you could, that was the point of my post.
Every single person in this thread could be white as the feet of snow outside my doorstep
and the individual could still have had the experience mentioned

Rather than presuming everyone is lying about their experiences to drive a political point,
am willing to generally give the benefit of the doubt
but maybe that is just a by-product of my own efforts at honesty,
and if dishonesty were my way of life, distrust of others as potentially dishonest would be as well

What, should I post a picture of me next to a german post office? ....

Do you feel the need to prove to mirta where you live?
Perhaps you have done so in error, but by addressing your point in response to my post,
you are directing your question at the individual who has made no effort to call it into question

Jade1986

Samadhi wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

That doesn't give you free reign to outright dismiss discrimination. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't make it less real. It happens.

Edit: Sorry to those reading this for going offtopic, but handwaving away racism and discrimination doesn't sit well with me.

Samadhi wrote: »

To be fair, he or she was explicitly responding to a point made that was indicating that, despite one poster not being confronted by police for the colour of his or her skin, that does not invalidate the probability another was
that does not mean the poster made the assumption of anyone else here, including yourself, being particularly privileged

basically the take home message is along the lines of
just because 'black' people are treated equally to 'white' people in a city, does not automatically mean 'brown' or 'tan' people are
just because a city is safe for lgbtq2+ individuals does not automatically make it safe for other races

discrimination takes place in myriad forms,
and it can be easy to ignore or discredit discrimination against other minorities
when being in a minority group that is in a comparatively fortunate position

I also don't have to believe everything a random poster says, especially when he is trying to make a point. I know Germany quite well. Germany is fairly not alike USA and most definitely not like an Eastern European country. They're very not discriminating in regards to skin colour, which is why I rather call bollocks on a story told to make a point.
...
To both:
I could tell you many things about me that may or may not be true. It would be more idiotic for you two to take my word as truth, than it would be to dismiss it.

True, you could be entirely lying about having any knowledge of Germany while the other poster could be telling the truth

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

...
To the second quote:
These words would not carry any more or less validity by the way depending on my skin colour, as I could be the same colour as the poster here and have different life experiences, which is why "don't say this unless you're in their minority group!" as a statement carries no weight.
...

Indeed you could, that was the point of my post.
Every single person in this thread could be white as the feet of snow outside my doorstep
and the individual could still have had the experience mentioned

Rather than presuming everyone is lying about their experiences to drive a political point,
am willing to generally give the benefit of the doubt
but maybe that is just a by-product of my own efforts at honesty,
and if dishonesty were my way of life, distrust of others as potentially dishonest would be as well

What, should I post a picture of me next to a german post office? ....

Do you feel the need to prove to mirta where you live?
Perhaps you have done so in error, but by addressing your point in response to my post,
you are directing your question at the individual who has made no effort to call it into question

It was more of a smart ass comment tbh . =P

Dexxadude

Eitherway, Politics aside.
ZoS do the right thing the get rid of these boxes, as others have said you can simply put a EULA and continue as normal, but this would be displaying disgusting behaviour that EA likes to use, doing ANYTHING just the rinse players of what they have. The only reply you have so far was "Its a hot topic, play nice" and that is not what people are expecting.

Elsonso

Dexxadude wrote: »

Eitherway, Politics aside.
ZoS do the right thing the get rid of these boxes, as others have said you can simply put a EULA and continue as normal, but this would be displaying disgusting behaviour that EA likes to use, doing ANYTHING just the rinse players of what they have.

It does not work this way.

As has been stated, the Crown Crates are a deliberate and calculated decision. Other than how well they are performing, there is no reason for them to change that decision. When these people want to do something, and they want to do Crown Crates, they are going to do it. If they can't do it as they originally envisioned, they will go back and find a new way to do it. This is how Bethesda Softworks turned Skyrim paid mods into Fallout 4 Creation Club. This is how Gems were introduced into ESO.

Crown Crates are here to stay. If the government, any government, steps up and tries to stop them, they will simply go back to the conference room and make new Crown Crates that the government isn't trying to stop.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Interesting little summary for those with couple minutes to kill.

https://youtu.be/W94t5vE9oRs

thomas1970b16_ESO

Sounds good. Finally.

Jade1986

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Interesting little summary for those with s couple minutes to kill.

https://youtu.be/W94t5vE9oRs

About time that peopel take notice.

JackDaniell

The crownstore has always been garbage. People pay real money for ingame garbage and zeni (like so many other companys wih poor ethical guidlines) have NO PROBLEMS WITH EXPLOITING AND TAKING FROM PEOPLE WITH ADDICTIONS.

How moraly defficiant can you be to be ok with making money off another persons suffering? This is a moral issue, this is about showing how you feel towards your fellow man or woman THROUGH YOUR ACTIONS.

Zenimax just lumps itself in with all other moraly devoids companys by adhering to thier ways. I have no repect for people and companys that thrive off these coruppt systems. They are just making themselves a part of a bigger problem.

ZOS_CoriJ

Thread closed. While the latest few comments seem to be getting back on topic that's after two more pages of similarly problematic commentary. Please refer to the previous notice for details.