So u want to see a "Tank" clearing a vet dungeon solo?
When u say Tank, do we have the same Charactertype in Mind?

Could be a long Video if i try to do it on my Tank, since i`m not a "Dps with shield" ^^.

Psychobunni wrote: »

You misquoted me somewhere @olemanwinter ...I most certainly did not claim that LOL. In fact, I already respecced my own tank because of this news (and believe I said that in this thread before) as I was smart enough to realize my tanking skills were merely passable before this announcement

I noticed, @Psychobunni, that there's been a lot of that happening here from both @olemanwinter and @personofsecrets misquoting along with either completely not understanding things being said by others or purposefully doing so to then say "Someone said THIS!", as there's no logical place they could come to those conclusions from otherwise but one of those two scenarios.

Psychobunni wrote: »

What page is that on? At first I was amused, but now that you are doubling down attaching a statement to my name I did NOT say, I'm getting angry.

I have no idea as to why this keeps being done, and frankly... I couldn't care much less. I don't live to argue, personally: I came to this thread to discuss tanking, which is what it's supposed to be about. Hopefully, they will join the discussion instead of continuing the thread derailments. Now, that said, back to the chat!

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Also attorney, when you accuse someone of putting words in your mouth, it is helpful when you point out what words those are. Saying that someone is misrepresenting others only works when you can show what is misrepresented. Sort of like how I pointed out your misrepresentation of ultimate generation.

@Personofsecrets, Considering how linear a forum thread is, I would have expected it to be easy enough to follow, given that you’ve made significant numbers of inferences that were never implied. Ultimate generation does require you to do more than just hold block and use damage skills. You can verify this in-game easily enough for yourself. To get the conversation back on the right track as I’ve been asking to in talking about the actual topic instead this whole time rather than character attacks, as well as to get everyone on the same page including ZOS who I’m sure will be reading this thread to see everyone’s feedback, I think that since it’s a web between misquotes and random asides, a summary of what each of the people who have posted multiple times here actually has said, rather than slanted paraphrasing might be useful.

I have made eight posts in this thread up until this one recently, which is #9. Here are all of the conversation snippets we’ve engaged in, linked and quoted verbatim with minimal information provided for context, as anyone catching up will have a hard time otherwise untangling it (Note: For readability, some line spacing was changed to combine multiple-line segments into one line break, but the text itself is unchanged and uncut) :

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

I'm very much looking forward to this change with block. Block should be something used strategically.

This. Time your blocks rather than tape down the key. Also confirmed with some tanks that run regularly that the Manti's autoattacks are indeed very slow on the swing timers and only will hit a proper tank build for 8-9k... it's just the specials (also a low swing speed) that hurt if you miss blocking, and those are as well-telegraphed as they look . Just like in PVP you should only be blocking selectively/timing when, anyways... that just shifts it to PVE as well. I think it's a fix, frankly, for both just as much as eachother.

@Avenias responded:

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Avenias wrote:

Ya its funny because of all the vet dungeons, he had to quote the easiest one.

The Manti isn't in a veteran dungeon, Avenias.

(He is actually the first boss of Sanctum Ophidia, the Trial ).

Personofsecrets then responded to those two posts with the following, including a mention of basic game mechanics not under contention by anyone:

Personofsecrets wrote: »

There is going to be very little strategic about what is to come.

As has been written about many times. Stamina regeneration ticks occur every 2 seconds and enemy attacks occur all at different rates. That is especially so when multiple enemies are queing up different kinds of attacks against the tank.

Unblocking for the chance of getting a stamina regeneration tick during the small opportunity that it occurs while at the same time there is no incoming attack has nothing to do with strategy and everything to do with wild chance.

I replied by stating…

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Regeneration ticks have occurred every 2 seconds in-combat since the early betas... that's hardly news . The best tanks currently do not (nor have in the past) hold down the key, and that includes for a large part of AOE pulls. They took the time to learn the first time or two they ran the Trials which mobs have attacks that should take priority on blocking, and what attacks absolutely need to be, so they could deal DPS and keep the rest of the raid doing so more easily, as well as how to recognize when they should hold that block down because it's dangerous not to. They use mitigation and avoidance in addition to just simply taping down that left mouse button and hoping for the best, because they are good tanks: and that involves knowing what is happening in the gameplay, not just spamming taunt on every mob in sight.

Contrary to popular belief, a Scaled Court Skirmisher being loose in an AOE pull in Sanctum doesn't spell doom for the raid and is laughed off by DPS while the pull is nuked on down. I generally play as DPS, by the way. Unblocking is a very normal and doable part of tanking, and if you're watching your environment which is a basic gameplay skill in PVE and PVP... you should rarely be taken completely unaware and feel like doing so would be leaving things to "wild chance."

(Which @Olemanwinter more recently randomly took out of context for some aside about a Scaled Court Conjurer, which is a larger trash mob in Sanctum Ophidia, rather than a minor one as I had been discussing to show that you don’t need to taunt everything in sight full-time.)

I also addressed a post to @Olemanwinter who interjected, stating that he believed the nerf was made for mainly PVP reasons:

olemanwinter wrote: »

This game is going to continue to bounce from rail to rail of imbalance until they STOP treating all abilities the same inside and outside of PvP. TREAT THE ABILITIES DIFFERENTLY. This was being done 10 freaking years ago when I was playing Guild Wars ONE. Everyone in this thread arguing against the upcoming PvE tanking problem is doing so because of PvP. YOU'RE BOTH RIGHT!

Both arguments are valid. The perma-blocking nerf is needed in Cyrodiil. It's also absurdly unneeded in PvE (can anyone link me a thread before this proposed change where people talked about blocking being too easy in pve? I bet not) The only thing that is invalid is Zos' insistence on continuing to constantly throw either PvP or PvE under the bus in an attempt to balance something on the other side.

If you guys at Zos can't figure out how to make abilities act differently in PvP, I can probably get you an email address from 2003 for Guild Wars support and they can explain how for ya.

olemanwinter wrote: »

So, lets not break what works. How's that for constructive feedback?

I disagreed, stating:

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Here's the thing: it doesn't work right now. It's so trivialized that tanking involves, for leaderboard scores, simply dumping as much tankiness as humanly possible while still slotting a taunt and just enough to live through a hit, to pump your damage up . That's not what tanking is . It most definitely is broken, right now. The stamina regen ticks being gone while blocking will help a little but it's a long ways off from actually fixing it. I was surprised, frankly, to hear so many complaints about the idea because the good tanks I always have spoken with, and the tanking I've done, never relied on just holding that key down .

As well as…

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

That might be a valid argument in some games, but not ESO, where none of the nerfs have been specifically aimed at PVP and affected PVE negatively. This particular one is really aimed squarely at both with a focus more towards PVE, since the meta in PVE simply became even more of the same as it was pre-1.6 more recently of tanking being too trivial to be a specialization focus for a character in trials and vDSA. PVP'ers other than newer players rarely ever complained about blocking issues, that's for sure.

Common topic in game is how tanking is too trivial and how to boost your dps in tank role actually. However, coming from someone I remember going on for quite a long while one day a month or so ago about how nirnhoned was making your crystal fragments only hit people for 500 to 800 damage unblocked a lot of the time in pvp, contrary to how anything in the game works, I will give more weight to people like @dduke who actually do get it. I give more weight to a mechanic when asking a question about car repairs, than I do a random friend, too. That's the same case here.

The game can't be balanced around new or less skilled players, or we end up with everything being as drop simple easy as the veteran zones have become where the forums are now being flooded by complaints of it being boring due to that. Tanking is too easy right now in pve and pvp. This change is being made for both, and eso was marketed on and balanced around skills working across both. If you want a separate pve and pvp arena there are dozens that offer it. ESO not only doesn't offer that, but for good reason. And there have to date been no major issues from a skill nerf due to pve or pvp causing outsized issues in the other end of what it was primarily aimed at. In fact most of the big nerfs have been due to pve balance , and this one is arguably aimed at both.

In the same post @Dduke brought up the same information, of how slow the Manti’s attacks are which I also had quoted and replied to:

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

You can even tank mantikora in this game by roll dodging his slow attacks (common knowledge to anyone in a top PvE guild). Luckily, he has an enrage mechanic so you aren't able to solo him...

Yep... I was researching how hard he hits with his attacks because the swing timer is extremely slow and after surveying some top-notch tanks learned that the block change will have zero impact to them. That's one of the encounters in particular I was hearing complaints about how "difficult" it would be.

I then killed the Serpent's Image down below with just a light armor sorc alongside me (light armor dragon knight DPS) just by using dodge rolls and positioning while he streaked to avoid dying and we both burned it due to happenstance on a less-organized run.

(The last bit was mentioned to illustrate, partially, just how slow most swing timers are. The Serpent’s Image hits harder than the Manti, but just like Manti, follows a predictable pattern. The Image occasionally pauses, does a large conal telegraph for a cleave, and does nothing until that is finished about 3 full seconds later, with no rotation if you sidestep the cone attack and zero damage taken.)

@Personofsecrets continued to @Dduke and I…

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@DDuke

I almost forgot that grimsfield is a bonafide video game developer. What is your new argument now that a game developer has stepped in the room?

Personofsecrets wrote: »

grimsfield wrote: »

Things like this are why I've pretty much quit this game. Absolutely no forethought here by the designers. Just bad. Just as bad as having a lag time on casts for breath of life. Ridiculous.

This game might finally be getting a patch after a year without one, but these bad decisions by the designers are bound to keep coming.

Hey Grim, thanks for stopping by.

Did you know that the best tanks in the game aren't holding block and never have?

Did you know that people who have little experience tanking and think that tanks need to use light attacks to generate their ultimate are all for this change? Their commentary really speaks for itself.

To which I responded asking for him to clarify his stance as I felt he had not said much about the tanking issues he believes will result:

”Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Would you care to present your argument clearly in the first place? @Dduke has presented his well . I'm still confused as to yours, however, as you've bounced between saying how horrible the block tweak for PVE and PVP will be because of how hard it'll make it from needing to tape down the block key in PVE but then not having stam regen, and saying it wont impact you and you're just "looking out for other tanks" (paraphrasing) that don't have any issue on either end. I happen to actually have been in that market sector you're awestruck at and jumping back into it currently ("bonafide developer") myself, but it's irrelevant in the context of a discussion of ESO's tanking balance . There's nothing to be concerned about on this change: it will bring a scrap higher (and direly needed) amount of difficulty but is only the first step on the road to making tanking a non-trivial activity and one that's fun.

In the same post, I also addressed the remark about not needing to use any light attacks or healing to get full ultimate generation:

”Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Unless you're healing your group to get ult, which isn't the role of a tank to be doing and means you find tanking easy enough to go hybrid (contradicting your own argument in the first place), you need to light or heavy attack to generate proper ultimate without losing large amounts of the possible generation you should be getting. You do get it for blocking, too, but that won't keep it full-time in many cases . These things are so basic that I felt someone describing themselves as an experienced tank would already have known them without having spelled it out. I apologize for having taken your word for it as you clearly did not.

Platitudes and rhetorical questions are all well and fun but the results speak for themselves: you're sitting around complaining that tanking will be too hard because you depend on a poor method of tanking that while able to pass for now, won't be able to from what you yourself have said/complained about, as of next patch. Meanwhile, the groups in PVE that sit at the top of the leaderboards mostly are indifferent, with a single digit handful of various people concerned that it may make it less fun even though still perfectly doable. Speak to anyone in-game that's a high tier player and they will most likely laugh if you suggest just holding down block in PVP or holding down block full-time during AOE pulls in PVE . It's not only an inefficient strategy, but a good way to slow down your raid in PVE or flop over dead in Cyrodiil.

I explained why, at least, that your feedback really isn't applicable to the vast majority of players that aren't new or only really tanking pledges (which don't require tanks, even, just one person with a taunt.... and yes, that includes vCOA which I just tank in my light armor DPS build by adding a taunt and then swapping one AOE for another (usually I change Elemental Ring out to toss in Volatile Armor since it also gives the armor/spell resist buff and damage reflect). For vDSA/Trials the meta is slanted horrendously towards dropping as much tanking as possible to max out your damage, due to the same root issue: tanking is far, far too easy between stam regen, huge block mitigation, the simplistic taunting system for agro management, and the low swing speed/special timers on most aoe trash and bosses.

Shortly after, @Personofsecrets then said to @olemanwinter, rather than replying directly:

Personofsecrets wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Did you know that the best tanks in the game aren't holding block and never have?

Not sure if serious.

That's what I can't believe, amongst other things, about what @attorneyatlawl is saying. They claim to speak to good tanks in the game. They claim to tank. Then they claim that tanks have a compelling reason to use light attacks(they don't). It really is bizarre that they want to be pro-nerf with regards to part of the game that they clearly don't know much about as they mischaracterized something as simple as ultimate generation while tanking. It is also strange that the top tanks I know (current NA 1 in SO and top 5 in VDSA) continuously hold down block against bosses and on big pulls, but attorneyatlawl has spoken the only true, real, and good way that tanks should play and enjoy playing.
First pro-nerfers say all players are doing is holding block and then they say that players have never continuously held block. First it is that the PVE meta is boring and then it is that tanks are evolving their role, but just in ways that they don't like.

The pro-nerfers just can't make up their minds about what their discussion points are and why what they want is preferable compared to what others want.

Hopefully i will have some interviews in the next couple of days about what the best tanks in the game are doing and why they are doing it.

(Note, of course, if you’ve followed along this far, that on my end at least I had stated that the tanks I spoke with, not “everyone”, generally played a given way. I also advocated making the tanking gameplay more difficult just prior as you can see above, stating it is too easy)…

”Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

due to the same root issue: tanking is far, far too easy between stam regen, huge block mitigation, the simplistic taunting system for agro management, and the low swing speed/special timers on most aoe trash and bosses.

(In particular, take note of the mention of the taunt mechanism, because it’s an interesting bit as to what is next discussed)

Followed by…

”Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Please, have the basic social courtesy to stop trying to put words in others' mouths because not every last little detail was spelled out between the lines, which makes not only for tedious writing but boring reading. Look at the opposing viewpoints and think about what's being written. I'm saying that holding block down isn't mandatory, and that those who do will easily adjust (as most have also told me directly). Can you hold block down without paying attnetion now? Yep. Do some out of laziness and convenience? Yep. Do the majority of the ones I've spoken with, both in the guilds I'm in such as Order of Mundus, Nightfighters, and the many I am contacted by often enough covering the majority of the top leaderboard spots in the NA megaserver, feel that this change will have much impact at all on them? Absolutely not, is the overall feeling I have been getting from virtually all of them. A couple are/were concerned, and out of those they haven't voiced any concern of it being "too hard" or requiring a drastic change in how they tank. I don't tank trials or vDSA regularly, personally, but I do run the Trials frequently as well and am not only guilded with the top tanks on NA but also chat with a lot of the rest fairly regularly from both the PVE and PVP focused guilds in the game. Have fun out there .

A few may have issues with the adjustment as you seem to feel you will, but you'll catch up soon enough in any case to everyone else on that once you spend a week with it. The objective fact is that in ESO the tanking system is quite literally the simplest functional one you can create for an online game design including the second-simplest agro system (the most basic is to not have any forcible agro with even binary taunts as ESO utilizes and have it be based only on damage/healing totals in a table), and extremely easy to deal with as a result. Alongside that, the game's power allocation quotas allow the vast majority of tanking mechanics present in RPG titles to be ignored outright such as threat management, avoidance/mitigation, and mostly resource management on the PVE end. Subjectively, there's little way to argue that makes for a difficult tanking experience let alone one that provides compelling gameplay.

In the same post…

”Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What if they're trying to improve the tanking (and subsequently whole PvE aspect) of the game by making this change?

I don't think anyone doubts they are TRYING to improve the game. That doesn't make it a good idea.

A change isn't necessarily positive just because it's motivated by good intentions.

There's yet to be any substantial argument as to why it would not be an improvement, and a whole host of reasons as to why it should be. As an offhand suggestion, you might find using even a basic combat log addon will help you notice what's happening during gameplay in PVP. Far be it from me to tell you how to play, but given that you had been calling out the Nirnhoned trait as the reasoning for your hits suffering a 90% reduction in damage against enemies, it'd probably be less frustrating to know what's actually happening . I wrote a brief introduction about how blocking works and its cost mechanics awhile ago if you're interested: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/170190/on-the-topic-of-permablocking-math-and-fiction

@Dduke also posted at the same time…

DDuke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@DDuke

I almost forgot that grimsfield is a bonafide video game developer. What is your new argument now that a game developer has stepped in the room?

Well he's not a developer of this game, is he?

Regardless, the whole point completely escaped you again.

What I meant to illustrate was the ignorance of people who claim they know a system & how it functions (or will function) better than the people who made it. Without even knowing the full extent of incoming changes and how they function in practice. I think this simple fact has been communicated quite a few times so far in this thread, so I'll leave it at that.

Instead of providing destructive criticism, simply demanding for dismantling of something you don't understand, you should be asking for more information, or testing the change yourself in PTS so you can leave feedback that isn't just ignorant assumptions.

Which @Personofsecrets replied to with:

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Again, the developers are not all knowing. We have gone over the many issues that developers have created, despite their testing, in this thread and you seemed to have agreed that they do a bunch of silly stuff.

So what is your new argument going to be if the stam regen change hits pts and most people dont like it?

Here I'll give you a few ideas for the future.

1. Players have to go along with whatever the developers want because.
2. Players that don't like the change are just whining
3. The change is still needed even if people dont like it because PVE is such a snore fest
4. Anything could happen after PTS so we should just go along with it

I patently disagreed by saying…

”Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

At least personally, I already am pretty well aware of how it will play out from never having done it differently than will be optimal in the new patch , and many of the tanks I've spoken with haven't been either, with virtually all indicating they don't see any issue arising from it and being indifferent at worst to the change. However, complaining to not even have it put onto the test server whether there was concern with a real basis or not, is a very good example of what you called "destructive criticism". Instead of seeing how it works for them, they immediately have jumped to demanding it never be tested let alone live, because they assume it will be too difficult. That's how we ended up with world mobs that die in one hit while leveling veteran toons now, though. I'd rather not see trials/dungeons/any future arenas turn into the same relative level of difficulty .

Since my last post, a large number of random insults and tangents came up which while not only leaving me scratching my head as to when or what, or if the people stating them even are thinking of the right person. Diving down into the muck doesn’t do much for a discussion, so I’ll leave that alone but for this:

olemanwinter wrote: »

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

Anyone that says tanking is easy or is only taunting and blocking dosnt play a tank or if they do they are a terrible tank.

I agree. And who says "taunting and blocking" is easy? That is like saying driving an 18 wheeler is easy because all you do is "steer, shift, and press pedals".

Yes, there are times when holding aggro and not dying is exceptionally easy. But there are also times where it's all a tank can do.

Imagine trying to tank all the axes during the last boss of Aetherian Archive without blocking. It's just silly.

Likewise, you could also make up some randomness like: “Imagine trying to heal the raid without healing.”

That's just as obvious a self-contradictory, but humorous example anyone could come up with at random @Olemanwinter . I've yet to see someone suggest that or never blocking (although who knows, you can usually dig up one person for any idea in politics, life, or a game). The satire regarding a paltry 30k DPS on an AOE pull in a veteran pledge gave me a chuckle, too, for what it’s worth. I've seen that reached single-target by some players with a lucky string of crits on the pledge bosses like Bloodspawn .

Psychobunni wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

You misquoted me somewhere @olemanwinter ...I most certainly did not claim that LOL.

Did I?

Psychobunni wrote: »

After that i tested build vs different monsters and was very satisfied after beating my first vet dungeon solo.

"very...satisfied.... after.....beating.... my.... first.... vet ....dungeon ....solo."

What a bunch of weird guys you all are in this thread. This thread is making my eyes bleed.
Nonsense of every variety in here!

What page is that on? At first I was amused, but now that you are doubling down attaching a statement to my name I did NOT say, I'm getting angry

Nice catch, @Psychobunni . Btw, if you click on the » symbol after the "wrote:" you are directed to the post that is supposed to be quoted. In this case, this takes you to an unedited post by you that does not contain the sentence @olemanwinter attributed to you.

Interesting way of arguing, insinuating things to make one's own position stronger by faking quotes. /golfclap, Mr. winter.

Leandor wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

You misquoted me somewhere @olemanwinter ...I most certainly did not claim that LOL.

Did I?

Psychobunni wrote: »

After that i tested build vs different monsters and was very satisfied after beating my first vet dungeon solo.

"very...satisfied.... after.....beating.... my.... first.... vet ....dungeon ....solo."

What a bunch of weird guys you all are in this thread. This thread is making my eyes bleed.
Nonsense of every variety in here!

What page is that on? At first I was amused, but now that you are doubling down attaching a statement to my name I did NOT say, I'm getting angry

Nice catch, @Psychobunni . Btw, if you click on the » symbol after the "wrote:" you are directed to the post that is supposed to be quoted. In this case, this takes you to an unedited post by you that does not contain the sentence @olemanwinter attributed to you.

Interesting way of arguing, insinuating things to make one's own position stronger by faking quotes. /golfclap, Mr. winter.

Yeah, I reported it after he double downed. My commentary may sometimes be annoying/derpy/non-relevant, but I do not ever knowingly lie about anything (real life pet peeve). Find someone else to falsify statements from

Edit: I self snipped other comment regarding, as it has been corrected

Just one thing...

@Attorneyatlawl and @Psychobunni , you are both saints and have infinite amounts of patience than id ever manage with that stuff. I saw @olemanwinter complain a few nights ago about nirn so id be totally unsurprised at attorneys account being true, but who cares. Discussion here speaks for itself!

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

You already should be, and can be, getting large amounts of stamina back from the typical shards, potions, skills (depending on class such as Earthen Heart skills on the DK to simply pop Igneous for 5% of your stamina pool back each time while buffering damage intake when helpful, or Nightblades toggling on Siphoning Attacks to grab some back at will between skill use and tapping light hits in when practical), and from the occasional 1h axe full heavy attack on your sword and board bar for its low charge timer.

You are describing typical ressource managment that works only vs. ideal-typical opponents.
Something like Mantikora is not ideal-typical , so your theories of keeping or gaining stamina will fail.

That is just an example for a non typical situation, just because there are exceptional situations that don't have impact on PvP it cannot be ignored because impact on PvE tanks is 100%.

Psychobunni wrote: »

What page is that on? At first I was amused, but now that you are doubling down attaching a statement to my name I did NOT say, I'm getting angry

I'm not sure what page it was on. You said I "misquoted you SOMEWHERE" so I just went back to my usage of the direct quote and restated it.

This entire thread has become [snip] INSANE. I've spent two pages trying to convince a handful of people I wasn't having a conversation with them about my sorc (which I don't have) in a PvP campaign which I don't play in, when I've actually had one of them ignored since about Christmas time and couldn't have possible conversed with him.

THIS THREAD IS NUTS.

If I misquoted you....I'm sorry.

But I don't give a crap anymore. I'm out.

Gone.


[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

self snipped. was irrelevant to topic

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

That might be a valid argument in some games, but not ESO, where none of the nerfs have been specifically aimed at PVP and affected PVE negatively. This particular one is really aimed squarely at both with a focus more towards PVE, since the meta in PVE simply became even more of the same as it was pre-1.6 more recently of tanking being too trivial to be a specialization focus for a character in trials and vDSA.

Wow, you really think that this is a fix and the right direction for solving a serious PvE problem.
Nice try, but it's obvious that the change only disables a symptom, quick and dirty without further evaluations.

Implementing solutions look different.

ZOS_Alex wrote: »

Temporarily closing thread to clean things up.

Wow a ZOS post! Crud more moderator junk, uh a little late to the party I'd say moderator person.

Well, No one from ZOS is shedding light on this topic at all. Thread has been totally derailed and is now a train wreck of just plain angry everyone.

Zenimax why are you still silent?

Oh I get it.

SOON(TM).

When will we... SOON!
Is there any... SOON!
Will there ever... SOON!

Have to say I am really confused about the word soon.
When I ordered a pizza online the other day there was an option for when I wanted it delivered.

Do you want this delivered Merriam Webster Dictionary SOON? -OR-
Do you want this delivered Zenimax Studios SOON?

Can't figure out why I am still waiting on that pizza.

Also, PTS was just announced to start tommorow.

Im really LOOKING FORWARD to ANY mention in PTS patch notes of any new FEATURE that will make up for all the stamina that will be now taken away from tanks.

ANY mention of new mechanic that will help in replenishing stamina or any change that will make it easier to adapt to new change.

Because thats what everyone were saying right (especially those PVP DPSes with alliance rank 26 who are just rubbing hands how wrecked now every tank will be)? To wait for PTS because "We dont know what they are going to change along the 0 stam regen while blocking, and how they will help to replenish stamina".

Im not going to be suprised if there will be NOTHING. Only 0 stamina. Thats all.

DDuke wrote: »

You can test it tomorrow on PTS, and leave feedback on PTS forums.

/thread

Oh you wish. If ZOS will completely ignore community feedback on this matter and push "0 stam regen while blocking" to live server this topic will live just to show how tanks of ESO were crippled and ignored in order to appease PVP crowd.

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Nifty2g wrote: »

there is no way you can tank in VDSA with everything eating your stamina and having no regen..

Does anyone really tank vDSA anymore ?

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I have made eight posts in this thread up until this one recently, which is #9. Here are all of the conversation snippets we’ve engaged in, linked and quoted verbatim with minimal information provided for context, as anyone catching up will have a hard time otherwise untangling it (Note: For readability, some line spacing was changed to combine multiple-line segments into one line break, but the text itself is unchanged and uncut) :

I'm going to post about a couple of recurring themes one more time so that they are clear

The Skill It Takes to Tank Now Versus the Skill It Will Take In the Future

In the future we all believe that tanks will have to time blocks, that is block and unblock, in order to not run out of stamina. This is because players wont be getting stamina regeneration ticks while they block. What is interesting is that regeneration ticks happen during times that the players aren't necessarily aware of or can do much about. Here are scenarios to help show that idea.

1. A player is casting block against a single enemy, multiple times, in order to mitigate damage and have maximum up time on stamina regeneration. Everything works perfectly.

2. A player is casting block against a single enemy, multiple times, in order to mitigate damage and have maximum up time on stamina regeneration. The stamina regeneration ticks occur during times when the enemy attacks and the player is blocking. The player doesn't receive stamina for those ticks.

3. A player is casting block against multiple enemies enemy, multiple times, in order to mitigate damage and have maximum up time on stamina regeneration. Everything works perfectly.

4. A player is casting block against multiple enemies enemy, multiple times, in order to mitigate damage and have maximum up time on stamina regeneration. The stamina regeneration ticks occur during times when the enemies are attacking and the player is blocking. The player doesn't receive stamina for those ticks.

There is no UI indication of when those ticks are occurring so it seems that players, even if they are skillful enough to block every single attack with perfect timing, wont be able to plan out these ticks. Furthermore, players can't gain the stamina ticks when an enemy is using an attack pattern which is in synch with the stamina regeneration ticks. Maybe a single enemy wont force a player into a catch 22 situation, but then there is point 4. Enemies aren't necessarily going to attack at the same time and those multiple attacks are going to create scenarios where a player either gets their regeneration ticks by releasing block or maintains their damage mitigation by holding block.

Overall, are scenarios 1 and 3 likely and is the skill barrier introduced in those scenarios more important than the inability for players to use their blocking skills effectively during scenario 2 and 4? Finally what skills are lost in order to introduce these new skills? It could be, for example, that overtaunting has been removed in order to accommodate the stamina regeneration nerf. It could also be that tanks lose some of their chances at casting abilities or lose some of their situational awareness because they are more occupied and focused with recasting block. It could also occur that the precise timing needed to block an attack, but then unblock for a stamina regeneration tick, isn't allowed due to in game lag, FPS, and ping - there could be a skill barrier added that doesn't work out due to those few issues.

How Ultimate Generation Works For Tanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yacj4kIQRhM&feature=youtu.be

As you see, a tank generates ultimate just by blocking. There is currently no need to weave light or heavy attacks between blocks for the purpose of ultimate generation. Saying so, under the idea that tanks already have to let their block down to generate ultimate, and that therefore the stamina regeneration nerf is less bad, is wrong. Someone who says otherwise, regardless of their experiences tanking, and regardless of what others have told them, shows that they aren't super knowledgeable about what tanks have and don't have to do and therefore doesn't necessarily have the insight it takes to evaluate how the stamina regeneration nerf will effect tanking.