Templar Skills Bugged/made useless - IGNORED

Dravecailean · July 2015

Radiant Oppresion still bugged
I raid quite a bit, be it trials, vdsa or pledges and I noticed the RO execute was acting funky at best. We all now that if we start executing at 25% (approx) our DPS goes up for the remaining of the battle, period. Let's say you don't have a huge spell damage or magicka pool, RO should be hitting for over 10k per tick on this phase.

However, there are occasions where it doesn't and it actually ticks with values of the mob at 100%hp, like 2500 damage per tick. The ONLY times I've seen this are when another templar started using RO at the same time as me. One of us will get bugged and don't tick properly.

I've seen it happen in HRC, AA and even yesterday in pledges with my lowbie v3 templar. My DPS in execute went down! I know not everybody runs a combat log, combat cloud or FTC but for those who do, is pretty obvious when it happens and makes us useless in execute.

Any official work? Because if somebody says working as intended I will chew my mouse.

Soris · July 2015

@Attorneyatlawl While your points are clear, you're missing more than that. Like the bugs, clunky animations and skills pale in comparison to other class' skills.

Some examples, Dark Flare, Ritual of Rebirth, Radial Sweep, Blazing Spears etc.. These are not good skills for a fast paced action pvp game. 2 of them even make you die in 1v1 combat.
Spear's initial damage is low/medium instead of medium/high. And the dot effect is like 100 dmg per second. Extreamly low if you dont count Burning light passive which has a percentage based change to proc. And you have no power to keep your enemies inside of dot area.
Sweep's range is too short and it is indeed bad version of Dawnbreaker, Take Flight and Soul Harvest. Both are some of the cheapest ulties.

Though some of them can be powerful in pve but pvp is a whole new world. You cant act like you do in pve.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Soris wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl While your points are clear, you're missing more than that. Like the bugs, clunky animations and skills pale in comparison to other class' skills.

Some examples, Dark Flare, Ritual of Rebirth, Radial Sweep, Blazing Spears etc.. These are not good skills for a fast paced action pvp game. 2 of them even make you die in 1v1 combat.
Spear's initial damage is low/medium instead of medium/high. And the dot effect is like 100 dmg per second. Extreamly low if you dont count Burning light passive which has a percentage based change to proc. And you have no power to keep your enemies inside of dot area.
Sweep's range is too short and it is indeed bad version of Dawnbreaker, Take Flight and Soul Harvest. Both are some of the cheapest ulties.

Though some of them can be powerful in pve but pvp is a whole new world. You cant act like you do in pve.

Actually, they are... the uses I was describing were aimed towards PVP when stating them,

. The best dps+healers I've run alongside with make copious use of the class skills. I also haven't encountered anything clunky with the animations or any outsized number of bugs that aren't typical for every class with ESO's combat and its quirks/bugs. The Burning Light can't be discounted, as it is the main reason to have that morph by design

... given it ticks several times you are on average able to expect to see 1-2 procs for no small amount of damage, in addition to the initial hit. Dark Flare is, as noted, superior to Crystal Fragments in many ways, eschewing the insta-cast chance for a strong aoe heal debuff and virtually-zero-but-is-there-for-procs second hit on all targets, while scaling to higher damage with stats and providing the 5% spell power buff. Empowered and Crescent Sweep are excellent for the reasons already mentioned.

If you're having a hard time using these skills when not only are they great on paper but also well-used and great in practice in both PVE and PVP, I'd recommend practicing your gameplay in general for positioning, timing, situational awareness, Line of Sight juking, and other factors, as well as making sure your gear build/loadout is up to snuff and fits well with the skill setup/weapon types you're slotting.

Soris · July 2015

Thank you for your kind suggestion, but I know my class as its my first vr toon and the only class i've played primarily since beta times. I have no problems playing with my templar in pvp. But also I know my stamina build is a bad version of NB stamina builds. And I know mageplar builds are no where close to magicka sorc builds for a 1v1 dueling standpoint. We can discuss this for hours.

You have happened to having no problems while playing with your group as a dps/heal templar. So do I. It is actually where templar shines in pvp. A perfect group support class but weak for solo play. You can do amazing things on clueless players as an experienced player in 1vX but that's not the case.

ZOS_UlyssesW · July 2015

Hello folks.
We have had to remove several comments in this thread for violating our Community Code of Conduct. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion. Additionally, we would like to point out that we appreciate feedback from all of our players, and we ask that others do not dissuade community members from sharing their feedback. For further details on the type of behavior we expect on our forums, please refer to our Community Code of Conduct and our Community Vision thread. Thank you for your understanding.

Kaliki · July 2015

@Attorneyatlawl:
I completely agree with what @Joy_Division posted (before it was deleted). I'd even go as far as saying that too many templar skills feel like less than ideal versions of what other classes have. Best example is Eclipse. I cannot fathom how you feel it is as useful as the DK reflect. DKs can cast it on themselves as a buff and then they know that the next 4 projectiles will be reflected. What templars can do is try to aim at someone, cast, and then see if it does anything or not. More often then not nothing happens. And if it casts, most of the time the only thing I achieve is that the person with the bubble is annoyed for the 1 sec that it takes them to break free.
I'm not saying the skill does not have its uses - but they are so very limited.
Oh and against DKs Eclipse causes them to move around in hyperspeed if they use certain skills.

Same with other skills: Dark Flare can be situationally useful, but by far less usefull than Crystal Shards. You may have noticed that Sorcerers hardly ever cast Crystal Shards. One reason is that you are constantly required to move, and you cant do that well when you're casting. This eliminates the spell as main dps spell in most PvE encounters and the same applies for PvP. Additionally to the cast time (a very obvious casting animation) there is a travel time that is nearly as long as the cast time. It is far too easy to block, reflect, absorb or dodge this projectile. Your only chance to hit someone is if the person is completely unprepared and defenseless. Sorcerers also rarely cast their shards in pvp - but the 35% chance on an instant cast makes the spell valuable as a good instant burst. The templar skill however is highly situational and by far less useful.

"Puncturing Sweep/Biting Jabs are extremely powerful and high damage thanks to the aedric spear passives, and the knockback on single enemies acts as an interrupt and mobility threat as anyone casting while being hit by it knows that if they don't move out, they will be interrupted. "
You are saying a lot about the interrupt, but what do you actually mean? You think this mini knockback is a mobility "threat"? It is a 0.5 sec inconvenience that gives out full CC immunity. Yes, it will interrupt casting targets. But who casts spells with a casting time in PvP? NB cast their fear maybe, but who else? Those elite templars that you run with that use dark flare and heal everyone with class skills?

Templars have a very varied arsenal of skills, but what makes the templar unique? Most people will say Breath of Life and Radiant Oppression. But what advantage in terms of gameplay do templars have?

Do they have a DKs survivability (or even the better self-heal)? No.
Do they have mobility like sorcerers or the ability to get away like NBs? No.
Do they do better damage than any other class? No.

So the feeling that remains is that we cannot have anything good because we have a little of everything and we just have to make do with that.

(This post was edited to reflect the updates due to moderation of this thread). I also executed self-censorship in view of the community vision.

Cinbri · July 2015

@Kaliki there is no post of @Joy_Division above yours coz ZOS deleting all posts that disagree with their so called "Ambassador".
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27214179-good-job-turquoise-grunge-retro-style-isolated-seal.jpg

Kaliki · July 2015

@Cinbri:
Its a shame Joy_Division's post disappeared. I thought it was very well written and provided good arguments. Why is it gone?

SeptimusDova · July 2015

I still have my videos of my bugshots. RO has Issues,And Explosive charge has issues with wrecking blow. That video used to be on here.Focused charge is supposedly getting fixed. I still can outrun vampires bane. I bet if I get vamped I can ironically out run my nemesis sun-ball.

all is not well I have been playing temp since early access as my main. I listed with video and FTC many issues. they are real. Plz do not insult me by saying that I need to L2P. Been doing just fine. Do not be condescending to me. What has been posted here in these 35 plus pages are real issues and concerns.

Thank you for reading this and have a nice day

Cinbri · July 2015

Well we can see on latest ESO Live video that Sun Fire was increased pretty nice.

Vynist · July 2015

Any news on how Biting Jabs is so easily missable?

SeptimusDova · July 2015

Part of Biting Jabs is to be able to anticipate which exact yellow pointy thing is actually going to hit. The rest are just fluff.

technohic · July 2015

Cinbri wrote: »

Well we can see on latest ESO Live video that Sun Fire was increased pretty nice.

Yeah, I was watching for that and also hoping to see dark flare but it seemed he mostly just used Spear Shards (and missed his target more often than not with it.) along with Power of the Light. He did cast BOL a lot and I was having a hard time seeing when the heal landed after the cast.

Cinbri · July 2015

technohic wrote: »

Yeah, I was watching for that and also hoping to see dark flare but it seemed he mostly just used Spear Shards (and missed his target more often than not with it.) along with Power of the Light. He did cast BOL a lot and I was having a hard time seeing when the heal landed after the cast.

Totally forgot about it. Stream recap:
1. Blazing Spear didnt get any new efects (like root). With new block mechanic it will be insanely usefull in PvP anyway.
2. Rushed Ceremony long animation was fixed as promised.
3. Purifying Light healing pool seems fixed and now moving with target and seems heavily increased its radius.
4. Sun Fire speed was increased as promised. No more 1 roll will dodge 4 projectiles.
P.S. While others didnt get anything new, our class got some info^^
And what is this purple flashes that proc blue glowing round hands, some 120 CP?

Kas · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

After having both talked with top-end Templar PVE and PVP players, and played around with my newer Veteran Templar personally, the conclusion I've reached and seen reached by others is that the majority of issues expressed here tend to be related to not understanding the mechanics of the skills, and that is part of why I wrote this post up: to help people learn them.

templars are fine in pve. depending on build/content, repentance and biting jabs the some of the best skills in the game. for pvp, it's different, though. I'd guess there's a huge chance the "top-end PvP players" you mention aren't nearly as "top-end" as people like @Cinbri or @Soris that complain here (Personnally, I played my templar to AR 34 and still love the class. However, there are many situations where I can do better on some of my twinks which really annoys me, because I know for a fact that I play my twinks terribly).

first of all, i agree. most templar skills are useful. however, there are no 1-2 extremely powerful skills you can build entire builds around. think of what hardended ward + streak does for sorcs and how they allow for a completely different resoruce management / mitigation mechanics. think of nightblades adn their tools to in/out fights and prepare for huge bursts.
you only have so many spots on your skill bars. there is only so mcuh gained from a huge arsenal of useful skills and much more if you have that one or two gamechanging spells.

the closest templars get to that are BoL + RD if anything. It does little to nothing when solo but in small scale groups the ability to spam one heal to help out highly mobile allies and to build extremely defensively/supportive with a single offensive ability that makes you an awesome assist, is what makes templars strong, atm. However, small scale groups, sadly, is a rather specific setting. True soloing and soloing around zergs with high mobility is found much more often, today. NBs and sorcs are infinitely better at that. For "raids" or "zergs" a mix of all classes works best anything. I see most groups have temlars that use healing springs / illousrious most of the time, when a dk would actually be better at that due to major mending. But w/e "templars are healers...". Such pvp is 95% about the leader's decisions anyway. Class balancing is rather boring for it so i'd ignore it entirely in threads like this.

Another problem is the terrible synergy between templar skills.
templars can improve their block, armor and resistance very well - but then there is a damage shield which does not work with that at all.
templars have huge heals but only repentance restores stamina. Today, where full stamina means you barely lose life (dodge/block/break free - even against many enemyies focusing) and every class can heal themselves but 0 stamina can mean death - even with spammed heals on the target, this is so much less useful.
templars have easily dodageable skills but no root and very few stuns. on top of that, two of their skills provide cc immunity (eclipse + sweeps) so that the target will have an even easier time avoiding other skills.
templars have a weird mix of ranged and meele abilities. (imho dks want to meele, sorcs want to be at range and nightblades vanish and disangage to jump into meele for short bursts. this is true through most non-niche builds. templars are just something in between)
templars get an empower on their huge-hitting debuff-applying skill that - if at all - can be used at most once against a competent enemy that will otherwise reflect, dodge or interrupt a cast.

imho longer time to kill and nerfs to mobility (except for nb's dark cloak, but nb's will be hit hardest by the longer ttk, i guess) will really play into the templars' hands. at least i really hope so.

david.haypreub18_ESO · July 2015

New Patch notes:

I see nothing about removing the GCD on Focused Charge.

Nothing about removing the CC from Biting Jabs.

Nothing about fixing Radiant Aura to work with potions.

Nothing about the double-nerf to Blazing Shield.

We are getting a 10% increase to Javelin damage though, so Templars will now be 100% fixed!

Kas · July 2015

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

New Patch notes:

I see nothing about removing the GCD on Focused Charge.

Nothing about removing the CC from Biting Jabs.

Nothing about fixing Radiant Aura to work with potions.

Nothing about the double-nerf to Blazing Shield.

We are getting a 10% increase to Javelin damage though, so Templars will now be 100% fixed!

imho, there will be so many subtle changes not directly included in the patchnotes.
the "new essence rune" is rumored to be h/m/s on a single enchant.
new sets are rumored to support hybrid builds.
who knows if those hybrid builds will actually become viable.
at least having a larger health pool with little cost to the primary stat would be a buff to health-sclaing shields again.
bash builds might become strong, i don't know if the templar skills will do well with that.

imho nightblades and sorcs seem to come out very strong. however, they are so strong already, mostly because they can focus on their one damage stat and be very efficient that way. stam gives NBs the perma dodge + vigor/rally heal whereas all sorc sheilds scale off the magicka pool. sure, they also like more healther and more of the other stats. but if this is gonna be readily available, dk's and templars will prfit more (unless completely new builds develope).

I don't know the new sets, yet. maybe they'll help templars out a ton.

finally, while heal has been nerfed, big heals have been buffed. previously a templar that would go for 100pts in blessed, healer set and lots of light armor, would overheal all the time. there was so little incentive to push your absolute healing value. now there might be.

i think i cannot say at all how templar will work in 2.1. Further I don't think we'll fully know after the pts. I think it's gonna take at least 2 months until the new build archtypes for the four classes develope. I'm pretty sure that those builds form the future will eat anything we play now, taken to the new patch and scaled to v16, alive. everyone will have to adapt.

for starters, the buff to eclipse is nice - simply because it's a buff no matter how you see it.

Soris · July 2015

This thread is being sinked. It's in the 12th page in Combat and Character Mechanics subforum eventhough it has currently bumped. Thank you ZOS, your ignore level is over 9000.

Cinbri · July 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

is there a still a gcd for the templar charge?

It now works the same way all other abilities in the game work: there is a 1 second GCD for every skill.

Despite this - Charge is not fixed
And instead of buff we will get huge nerf http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/201565/revert-eclipse-cap-change#latest

Kaliki · July 2015

No buffs can change the fact that Eclipse is a subpar ability.

You have to aim at a target and hope it is not CC immune, if it is, it won't do anything.
If you cast it on someone it is more than obvious to them that they are affected by it so they will break free or refrain from casting. S+B reflect and DK reflect is a bit less visible plus is cast on yourself and applies to any projectile from any player, not just one.
The magicka cost is too high for its very situational use, i.e. as high as Breath of Life.

Rhakon · July 2015

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_KaiSchober ....

Please read this thread again, we need your attention, more fixes and adaptations for the Templar class are required !

may you have a short update for us? that would be nice.

washlov · July 2015

yes pls

david.haypreub18_ESO · July 2015

Soris wrote: »

This thread is being sinked. It's in the 12th page in Combat and Character Mechanics subforum eventhough it has currently bumped. Thank you ZOS, your ignore level is over 9000.

How is it being sinked? I post in it but it doesn't get bumped to the first page. How is that?

SeptimusDova · July 2015

It is too heavy the thread sinks due to the weight.

Rhakon · August 2015

SeptimusDova wrote: »

It is too heavy the thread sinks due to the weight.

ill try again

may Zos should put this thread on a diet and solve some weighty problems

SeptimusDova · August 2015

nah the moth piece has spoken and all is well.

Soris · August 2015

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

This thread is being sinked. It's in the 12th page in Combat and Character Mechanics subforum eventhough it has currently bumped. Thank you ZOS, your ignore level is over 9000.

How is it being sinked? I post in it but it doesn't get bumped to the first page. How is that?

Simply mods made "most recent" section for this thread locked at July 17. It is in the page 15, 3rd line atm.

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2015

Soris wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

This thread is being sinked. It's in the 12th page in Combat and Character Mechanics subforum eventhough it has currently bumped. Thank you ZOS, your ignore level is over 9000.

How is it being sinked? I post in it but it doesn't get bumped to the first page. How is that?

Simply mods made "most recent" section for this thread locked at July 17. It is in the page 15, 3rd line atm.

I'm surprised that they would do that. Could it possibly be a bug?

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2015

I'm reporting this thread to see if ZOS can give us an explanation for why this is the case.

Soris · August 2015

Nah they do that on many threads. For this one, probably it is related to the community ambrassador

After he aggroed all of us, mod UlyssesW appeared and it got sinked that day.