Gameplay only gets hard for me when my internet is slow. It makes a whole lot of difference.

Sakiri wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Sorry, you lost all of my interest in discussing this with you right there. Nothing one or two shot kills you in 1-50 because you missed one block or dodge roll.

Safe travels.

And this is the crux. I learned not to get hit playing the NB (cloak spam) I learned to CC ranged mobs. I learned to prebuff from my second bar with long duration abilities that persisted through a bar swap before starting the fight. I learned to use potions and I learned how to charge my ultimate for the tougher groups by killing random single mobs. I adapted to the rise in difficulty and am now getting through the content just as effectively as I was 1 to 50.
Anyone can do this, its not hardcore to spend some time thinking about why you are dying and experimenting with different things. I went through that phase too. I started with medium armour and went for a stamina heavy crit build but it didn't work out. I died too often. So I changed....more than once in fact. And eventually found something that worked for me and got great satisfaction from doing it.

And that right there is too complicated for TRASH in a game that was designed for people that typically set the slider to where they can one shot dragons because combat isnt interesting.

Back the hell up and look at this from a non mmo TES viewpoint. The game was aimed at THOSE guys too, and most of them DO NOT DO THAT.[/quote

born2beagator wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

silent88b14_ESO wrote: »

So the difficulty looks good to you and, let's say 20% of the player base.

Erm...not according to the poll

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99207/how-much-trouble-do-you-have-with-veteran-content#latest

I've said all along through this thread. Its the vocal minority having trouble. But you still want to ruin the game for the majority

a 25 vote difference is not the huge gap you are making it out to be, and thats not taking into account the people who play that aren't here. Sorry uber gamers, there are enough complaints and cancelled subs over this that I think we will see vet trash mobs nerfed in the near future.

I know you hate the "casual gamer" but you know what? You chase those away and you have a dead game. A random internet poll is not representative of the population as a whole and I'd bet the casuals you hate so much make up the majority of the ingame population.

I am a casual gamer. I've been in exactly 1 trial (and wiped) There are still loads of dungeons I haven't done. I'm playing in blue crafted gear. Why would I hate casual gamers? And be honest now. The 53% of voters who are happy with the game difficulty is way more then would suggest if you read the rest of this thread. Its been suggested that only a small percentage of hardcore players were managing the content. That's just not true.

born2beagator wrote: »

53% is still not the big majority you are making it out to be. If nearly half of your players (again, not indicative of in game) want a change, it would be pretty stupid on zenimax's part to ignore them

I wasn't making it out be a large majority. Read the rest of the thread. It was other saying that MOST players find it too difficult. This was what I was challenging. It not MOST players. Its the ones coming to the forum to complain.

Hilgara wrote: »

born2beagator wrote: »

53% is still not the big majority you are making it out to be. If nearly half of your players (again, not indicative of in game) want a change, it would be pretty stupid on zenimax's part to ignore them

I wasn't making it out be a large majority. Read the rest of the thread. It was other saying that MOST players find it too difficult. This was what I was challenging. It not MOST players. Its the ones coming to the forum to complain.

I think you're both arguing the same point here, just from different sides. Most people in this thread find it too hard, but about half in the poll thread find it okay. I find it a little hard, I am very restricted in what I can do with my build but I don't want to become a cookie cutter build (Templar) so I will just keep going I guess.

@steveb16_ESO46 - As you posted as I was editing, it's 45% of whoever reads the forum threads. I'd argue that most of the playerbase doesn't read the Forum.

Hilgara wrote: »

silent88b14_ESO wrote: »

So the difficulty looks good to you and, let's say 20% of the player base.

Erm...not according to the poll

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99207/how-much-trouble-do-you-have-with-veteran-content#latest

I've said all along through this thread. Its the vocal minority having trouble. But you still want to ruin the game for the majority

You do realize forum use isnt indicative of general population right?

Most of those frustrated just leave. They dont come here for help, and they sure as Hate dont ask for advice because Gods forbid they sadmit theyre bad, people with your sttitude chew them out.

silent88b14_ESO wrote: »

When that 'vocal minority' is 45% of your customer base it's something to panic about not to proffer as a sign that everything is cool.

Some of those players will leave. Some will do some research and find a better build or experiment with different abilities. But what can the 53% do to compensate if you make the content easier? nothing!

There are two arguments here. One is that the vet content is boring. Ok I can't argue with that if you find it boring then nothing I say will change that.

The other one is that its too difficult. Ok so it might be difficult for a fair proportion of the player base as of now but the difficulty ramp is designed to make you re-evaluate you builds and sikls. If this thread had run a month ago I might have been on the other side of the argument because I was struggling with the NB and in fact parked him up and levelled a sorc all the way to vet 11 before picking the NB up again. But I stuck with it and slowly improved to the point where everything was manageable. No game has ever made me have to think and experiment to this degree and while it was frustrating at the time the feeling of accomplishment when I finally found something that worked was a real buzz. Especially because it was using what was supposed to be a broken class. The sorc was a cakewalk compared. The problem is not vet difficulty. Its class balancing. If you made this any easier then my sorc would be a joke to play. So right there you have a massive percentage of the player base losing out. I dare say DK's are still managing ok even with the recent nerfs.


Don't fix difficulty, fix the class balance.

Hilgara wrote: »

silent88b14_ESO wrote: »

When that 'vocal minority' is 45% of your customer base it's something to panic about not to proffer as a sign that everything is cool.

Some of those players will leave. Some will do some research and find a better build or experiment with different abilities. But what can the 53% do to compensate if you make the content easier? nothing!

They will still have dungeons, and raids, and all the other group content that is challenging. Yes, 100% of the game won't be catered to them. Nor should it be. Because right now this nothing that you speak of is exactly what casual players have to do.

Alphashado wrote: »

They will still have dungeons, and raids, and all the other group content that is challenging. Yes, 100% of the game won't be catered to them. Nor should it be. Because right now this nothing that you speak of is exactly what casual players have to do.

So your definition of a casual player is anyone who can't manage the difficulty and a hardcore player is anyone who can. That's quite a black and white distinction you have made there. I don't play much group content. I'm enjoying levelling and questing. There are lots of people like me. Not hardcore, not raiders, not theory crafters but also not finding the content too difficult. I'm speaking for those people and you are speaking for all those who you specifically have labelled as casual players, who apparently consist of players who are at your level or lower.

I can clock 10 hour days in game, dobt do much group content here but have done server first raids in a few other games. I dont believe my issue personally is lack of skill.

I find VR grindy and annoying as hell.

I feel like Im slogging through chores with trash mobs.

Im unsure what youd call me but I still think mob hp needs nerfed. Hard.

Alphashado wrote: »

But I see the bigger picture here. I like this game and want it to succeed and I understand what is happening right now as we speak. I understand that a good MMO needs to offer something for everyone. I understand that we need casual subscriptions.

It's called thinking outside of the box.

And I hate to break this to you, but yes you are a Theory crafter. You have said yourself on several occasions that people need to research and make adjustments and adapt. That is the definition of theory crafting.

No, theory crafting is sitting down with a calculator and a spreadsheet and a sh*t load of addons. don't even use a combat addon. I go by feel and how much a chunk I am taking out of my opponents health bar and how much he's taking out of mine. Pretty basic.

Actually I agree with you on the thinking outside the box bit but that's not what was being proposed all the way through this thread. it was a simple nerf to trash mobs that would have impacted a large percentage (majority?) of the players base negatively. Anything that can address everyone's issue I am in favour of.

Magdalina wrote: »

@Hilgara, you cannot seriously say the mobs are balanced the way they're now. How about all the bosses(all the quest bosses, caves bosses and some world bosses even) being MUCH easier than 2-3 trash groups? Because, well, they are.

If this is supposed to be that challenging - great, honestly say it is, buff the bosses so they don't seem such a joke after that "trash" and I and hundreds/thousands of others will just happily leave knowing there's nothing for us to wait. And you and some those like you will jump in happiness. After that it will be just a question of which part is bigger(and whether the remaining part will be enough to sustain the game), but at least it'd be HONEST.

yep there are some odd things in public and instanced dungeons. But the focus in this thread is open world trash mobs in vet content. Specifically groups that people are having trouble with. I think this is because 1 to 50 people get complacent. Run in AOE stab stab, pew pew. all dead. When that doesn't work they either come here to complain about it or they go back to the drawing board. I did the latter.

But yeah I think someone messed up somewhere in the dungeons. Regardless of the difficulty scaling the boss should be more of a challenge than the trash you have to kill to reach him. This will be addressed eventually but it would help a great deal if ZoS held their hand up and admitted its a mistake.

EQBallzz wrote: »

Yeah, I have to agree. The trash mobs are way out of balance. I just experienced this in a solo dungeon. Died multiple times to 3 pack mobs otw to the dungeon boss and then one shot killed the boss who summoned an add during fight. The only way I could get past the 3 pack trash mobs was my stand-bye NB strategy of focus firing one of them down before dying..reviving myself in place and killing the other two before the first one respawns. ZOMG THAT IS SO FUN.

On top of the difficulty is the fact that so many things are bugged. Volcanic rune only works about 60% of the time. My bat swarm ultimate as of today has ceased to work at all. As if the content isn't hard enough as it is but all my tools are broken as well.

I never really have too much trouble with groups of 3 normal mobs. I tend to re-cloak a lot, which stops all agro. It then take a second for them to re-agro. That time allowed be to constantly do heavy burst damage and work through the pack. I also do a lot of pre buffing from my second bar for difficult groups. Things like elude hasrness magicka, mutagen, give lots of long duration buffs that persist after you swap back to your normal attack bar. You then have 20 seconds of being very powerful before they run out.

Hilgara wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

@Hilgara, you cannot seriously say the mobs are balanced the way they're now. How about all the bosses(all the quest bosses, caves bosses and some world bosses even) being MUCH easier than 2-3 trash groups? Because, well, they are.

If this is supposed to be that challenging - great, honestly say it is, buff the bosses so they don't seem such a joke after that "trash" and I and hundreds/thousands of others will just happily leave knowing there's nothing for us to wait. And you and some those like you will jump in happiness. After that it will be just a question of which part is bigger(and whether the remaining part will be enough to sustain the game), but at least it'd be HONEST.

yep there are some odd things in public and instanced dungeons. But the focus in this thread is open world trash mobs in vet content. Specifically groups that people are having trouble with. I think this is because 1 to 50 people get complacent. Run in AOE stab stab, pew pew. all dead. When that doesn't work they either come here to complain about it or they go back to the drawing board. I did the latter..

There's indeed a drastic change between 1-50 and vet. 1-50 is too easy and very easily outleveled after which you steamroll thru pretty much any number of any mobs. Then you reach 50, beat a god, save the world...and can suddenly be killed by 3 rats. This doesn't make sense, doesn't live up to expectations of most players and while you and some(I won't say a percentage. I still don't think it's very large but there's no way to know for sure...tho I think empty vet ones think for themselves) others might like it, clearly a lot of ppl don't. There's smth seriously wrong with this setup.

The solution necessary is not inevitably a NERF ALL - it's fixing bugs(with skills, too) first of all and rebalancing the content. Bosses should be harder than trash. Trash shouldn't be 100 times harder than Molag Bal. And 1000 times harder than non-vet trash.

Hilgara wrote: »

But yeah I think someone messed up somewhere in the dungeons. Regardless of the difficulty scaling the boss should be more of a challenge than the trash you have to kill to reach him. This will be addressed eventually but it would help a great deal if ZoS held their hand up and admitted its a mistake.

And the last part is something we can really agree on=) Whatever the case and whatever the solution should be, there clearly is a problem and ZOS needs to acknowledge its existance in the very least.

NerfEverything wrote: »

The game isn't too hard unless you are playing a broken class (Templar).

Or cant adapt your playerskill.

Lizelle wrote: »

There are several things at play here that make things seem more difficult than they probably are.

1. Combat mechanics - People aren't used to having to block/dodge/interrupt or DIE. You have to learn to watch for the cues. Also some cues are really hard to see when mobs and/or players are grouped up. UI changes might help here. Something that is more obvious even when spell effects/people/mobs are everywhere.

2. Lack of Combat Information - The death recap helps a little but a combat log would be more valuable. You can't build a sound strategy without good info about what went wrong. Defining what went wrong often requires more info than what hit you just before you died.

3. Uninformed Players - Guessing at what didn't work leads to a proliferation of misinformation and arbitrary requirements. Which makes things seem more black and white than they probably are. E.G. "You have to have X skill or you can't win!"

Honestly I don't believe ESO is too hard for casuals, I think people just need more information about what's actually happening so they can understand what is required to beat an encounter.

BANG! Right on the nail!

Why cant I write this well?