Yes, the PvE difficulty is not properly balanced. As expected from a new MMO.

Currently they are working on balancing the classes (so at last PvP can be balanced). After that they will go for PvE balance and Stam/mana skill balance.
I expect the big problems to be solved within 6 months of release.

Cogo wrote: »

If ESO are losing more players then I must be seeing things. The Rift was so overcrowded whole saturday that zone chat spammed down so much about, LFG, x Achor is up, Instance X looks for a damage dealer, Selling X, that I had to scroll up several times when I saw something I wanted to buy, or join a group.

I think people who dont like the game wants it to fail somehow. I dont understand this way of thinking, but its a free world. Say and think what you will.

Someone who states something without anything at all to back it up with, I just cant take that seriously.

Players who express their view on the game based on their playing experience, those I read. Whatever they say.

Those who goes "LOL, FAIL, free to play in a month". Thats just noise.....

I am an officer in a great trading guild. We pride ourselves on keeping our roster full of active players. Most trading guilds that are successful also pride themselves on keeping a full roster of active players. So listen here and listen well, for you may find this interesting.

We boot people for inactivity after 10 days. I personally recruit 10 or 12 people every other day and so do other officers in the guild. The reason we have to do this is because in order to keep our roster close to 500 with active players, we have to replace that many people every other day.

In other words, every other day there is a fresh batch of a dozen or more people in the guild that have been offline for 10 days.

I don't think I have to explain any further.

The more of these threads I read the more it becomes apparent that some people can't see past the end of their nostrils.

The folks that keep saying it's not to difficult and L2P blah blah blah, if that's the way you like to play then that's fine for you, it's not fine however for others so stop being so damned selfish and try thinking of someone apart from yourself for a change.

Everybody is paying the same amount of money and everybody has the right to play the role that they choose, the way that they choose.

I can mostly cope with the difficulty, but it's so blasted tiresome at times that it becomes pure drudgery and puts some people off playing, me included.

Have difficult content available for those that want it by all means, but there's no reason for every area to be a crapstorm of difficult combat.

Nyswar wrote: »

Lunerdog wrote: »

The more of these threads I read the more it becomes apparent that some people can't see past the end of their nostrils.

The folks that keep saying it's not to difficult and L2P blah blah blah, if that's the way you like to play then that's fine for you, it's not fine however for others so stop being so damned selfish and try thinking of someone apart from yourself for a change.

Everybody is paying the same amount of money and everybody has the right to play the role that they choose, the way that they choose.

I can mostly cope with the difficulty, but it's so blasted tiresome at times that it becomes pure drudgery and puts some people off playing, me included.

Have difficult content available for those that want it by all means, but there's no reason for every area to be a crapstorm of difficult combat.

The difficulty isn't overtuned. If you're dying on an encounter (assuming you have a group when needed), it's because you're not using the combat mechanics properly.

Is it frustrating to die? Sure, sometimes it is. But is it boring to have a game where players don't feel any sense of accomplishment after a fight because they never had to do anything except stand in front of the enemy and spam the same ability over and over? Absolutely. There is absolutely no encounter in this game that is "too" difficult. Challenge is good, and many of us really prefer having to pay attention when fighting.

That is the point though. A tremendous amount of players don't enjoy having to dance around and block and dodge and roll and execute everything perfectly for every single trash mob they come across. You may find that style of stress fun, but a lot of people do not. Dungeons? Sure. Group content where other people are relying on you? Sure. Every single trash mob? No thanks.

claytonjhouserb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a complainer and not here to down rate just here because I've had three of my friends quit from sheer difficulty. They love the environment and the emersion just when it comes down to gameplay it is just plain stressful. No body likes to die over and over just to finish what started as a simple quest or finish a dungeon just to find an over difficult boss. Many of us prefer single player gameplay but in many places this just isnt allowed. I'm vet rank 7 and have since given up trying to continue cause I continually die. I just wish they could move down the difficulty or remove vet ranks for more casual players or roleplayers just looking for a loretastic time. All opinions appreciated.

Other than a few balance issues, 1-50 is OK. But veteran levels are an unenjoyable chore. It's not that I can't survive the fights with 3 trash mobs that hit like trucks - it just gets tiresome after you've repeated it so many times.

First I want to say people that have posted on this topic so far (with one exception) have made great arguments and it's a good read.

Personally I have enjoyed the challenge of the Vr zones and after getting to vr8 with a temp dedicated healer I'm about to go into the Vr1 zone with my dw nb because I like the challenge of it. I am a pretty hardcore mmo old timer with way too much time on my hands and my naga mouse allows me to do stuff quickly.
But that's me. I'm a glutton for punishment.

There's no doubt that the Vr zones are close to empty. Most people that I know of go straight to Ezmode Craiglorn to finish up leveling because it's faster and easier and I don't judge them for that nor do I blame them.

I completely understand the casual gamer's (not a dirty word imo) frustration with Vr content. There most certainly needs to be something done about balancing out the content so every single trash mob doesn't have the potential to nuke you. Otherwise, there is no hope for this game having a thriving population. That is an inarguable fact.

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Nyswar wrote: »

Is it frustrating to die? Sure, sometimes it is. But is it boring to have a game where players don't feel any sense of accomplishment after a fight because they never had to do anything except stand in front of the enemy and spam the same ability over and over? Absolutely. There is absolutely no encounter in this game that is "too" difficult. Challenge is good, and many of us really prefer having to pay attention when fighting.

Jeez if only we lived in one of those cool alternate realities where options are not just either/or.

Either combat is going to have a learning curve, or it's not. There really isn't a middle ground.

Once you learn the mechanics, fights stop being too difficult and become an enjoyable challenge.

Nyswar wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Nyswar wrote: »

Lunerdog wrote: »

The more of these threads I read the more it becomes apparent that some people can't see past the end of their nostrils.

The folks that keep saying it's not to difficult and L2P blah blah blah, if that's the way you like to play then that's fine for you, it's not fine however for others so stop being so damned selfish and try thinking of someone apart from yourself for a change.

Everybody is paying the same amount of money and everybody has the right to play the role that they choose, the way that they choose.

I can mostly cope with the difficulty, but it's so blasted tiresome at times that it becomes pure drudgery and puts some people off playing, me included.

Have difficult content available for those that want it by all means, but there's no reason for every area to be a crapstorm of difficult combat.

The difficulty isn't overtuned. If you're dying on an encounter (assuming you have a group when needed), it's because you're not using the combat mechanics properly.

Is it frustrating to die? Sure, sometimes it is. But is it boring to have a game where players don't feel any sense of accomplishment after a fight because they never had to do anything except stand in front of the enemy and spam the same ability over and over? Absolutely. There is absolutely no encounter in this game that is "too" difficult. Challenge is good, and many of us really prefer having to pay attention when fighting.

That is the point though. A tremendous amount of players don't enjoy having to dance around and block and dodge and roll and execute everything perfectly for every single trash mob they come across. You may find that style of stress fun, but a lot of people do not. Dungeons? Sure. Group content where other people are relying on you? Sure. Every single trash mob? No thanks.

Have we got a number on people saying they don't like the difficulty? As I recall, it was the aspect of the game that beta testers almost universally praised.

Oh, and there is no trash mob in this game that requires "perfect" execution. Even as a vampire, I can take fire damage from a trash mob's power attack and still win the fight. I'll have to do some quick healing, but why don't you think I should be punished for standing in the fire?

Beta testers were not testing VR content.

Nyswar wrote: »

Have we got a number on people saying they don't like the difficulty? As I recall, it was the aspect of the game that beta testers almost universally praised.

That should tell you everything you need to know since MMO BETA TESTERS aren't generally speaking comprised of large populations of "casual players" , some players may not care if casuals stick around or not but ZOS certainly should since they are a large (if not majority) chunk of the potential MMO market, if on the other hand ZOS wants to turn ESO into a niche "hardcore" gamers type MMO they've got a pretty decent start down that path (well except for the fact that the current end game content isn't really all that appealing to the "hardcore" raider types over the long haul).

Nyswar wrote: »

Lunerdog wrote: »

The more of these threads I read the more it becomes apparent that some people can't see past the end of their nostrils.

The folks that keep saying it's not to difficult and L2P blah blah blah, if that's the way you like to play then that's fine for you, it's not fine however for others so stop being so damned selfish and try thinking of someone apart from yourself for a change.

Everybody is paying the same amount of money and everybody has the right to play the role that they choose, the way that they choose.

I can mostly cope with the difficulty, but it's so blasted tiresome at times that it becomes pure drudgery and puts some people off playing, me included.

Have difficult content available for those that want it by all means, but there's no reason for every area to be a crapstorm of difficult combat.

The difficulty isn't overtuned. If you're dying on an encounter (assuming you have a group when needed), it's because you're not using the combat mechanics properly.

Is it frustrating to die? Sure, sometimes it is. But is it boring to have a game where players don't feel any sense of accomplishment after a fight because they never had to do anything except stand in front of the enemy and spam the same ability over and over? Absolutely. There is absolutely no encounter in this game that is "too" difficult. Challenge is good, and many of us really prefer having to pay attention when fighting.

Now what was I saying about not being able to see past the end of your snout.

What suits you, suits you, fine.

It doesn't suit others and therefore shouldn't be forced on them.

Tossing my two cents in.

I think this is leaning towards one of the more constructive threads I have read, I don't see too many "you don't know what you're talking about" comments despite the differences in opinion.

The VR content is much more difficult, although I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. When I first got to VR (VR1), I got my backside handed to me by trash mobs. The tactics I used in regular play simply didn't scale to the tougher mobs, and I had to adapt. I managed all the way to VR7 through questing, and at that point went on to Craglorn content (I'm currently VR11).

Things I do agree with:

- The VR questing feels very grindy, and gets very boring. The mobs are a lot tougher, and because of that there's fewer tactics that work well in taking them out. You end up feeling like it's the exact same encounter over and over again. The fact that the trash mobs are tougher also means they take longer to kill, adding to the grindy feel of questing.

- There isn't much tactical planning to the encounters. Running down the mobs is a question of your entry move, quick damage, and then a finishing move that might provide a buff. Real tactics involve using your environment and range, and you don't get that in this game. Attacks always seem to hit even if you run out of range, "melee" attacks don't seem to have much limitation in range, and at veteran levels all trash mobs have ranged attacks in addition to melee attacks. Using snare or rooting the mobs is pointless, because once you've drawn aggro they can hit you no matter where you are. (all of this also adds to the grindy feel of the game).

- The trash mobs are tougher than the bosses at VR levels. It's entirely about the DPS. Three trash mobs have damage from 3 sources hitting you simultaneously, and there's no way to counter that tactically (see previous point). A boss is usually just one source of damage, and even if he does higher damage and has more hit points, the DPS is higher from the trash mobs.

What I would like to see:

- More transparent game mechanics. Currently the exact game mechanics are not easily accessible by design, the developers (rightfully IMO) wanted players more focused on the storyline \ graphics (game immersion). As the game gets harder, the understanding of the mechanics becomes increasingly important in order to "l2p" your character. Without that understanding, players are building without being able to properly balance their skill synergies. It would be nice if there was an option to toggle verbose tool tips and get factual information, instead of what passes for factual information from the internet.

- The VR content would be more enjoyable if you could team up with friends, but quest grouping only really works if you're at the exact same point in the game. You effectively have to play every moment of the game with the exact same people, otherwise you won't be at the same points and may be phased differently as you travel together. The grouping mechanic needs to be updated.

- Line of sight rules for ranged attacks (if you break LoS the ranged attack misses) and realistic range for non ranged (melee) attacks. This is something that would add more depth to the combat encounters, and give players who enjoy a challenge another option for surviving the high DPS of multi-mob vet encounters.

The only saving grace in this game is how hard the content is, keeps it interesting. at the same time they hinder players with huge respec costs. sometimes a path you picked is the wrong one and you need to relearn a different way. unfortunately they make it impossible with the huge gold costs to respec and no ah to make money it makes it even worse.

pair that with only 5 abilities and way to long of a delay switching and you get a very frustrating experience.

leave the difficulty, it's a nice change of pace, but let us respec for way cheaper and either give us 10 ability slots or make switching way faster.

Alphashado wrote: »

Would you rather see a F2P game with no support, no content upgrades, no expansions, and dead servers with nothing left but a few hardcore players?

I suspect this kind of reasoning is a tad too far outside of the box though.

When games go FTP they also become inexorably more casual. You only have to look at LOTRO.

@Winnower

Outstanding post! Good suggestions too.