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Why destroy subclassing?
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Renato90085✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since 100% subclassing won't ever get removed from the game, what is the fantastical logic behind: a system that requires double the Skill Points and triple the XP to Master (if you count from starting brand new) should make you less powerful than what you "get by default"?
Call me blind but I can't see the logic, for the love of Mara.
double Skill Points and triple XP too low for this power creep
for pure class,you need farm same skill point and xp,because you need other line(world passive/crafter)
the subclass just give up useless part like crafter passive to free overpower
and triple xp just 10-15 min run master writ quest...
Edited by Renato90085 on May 13, 2026 4:59AM2 -
Thoriorz✭✭✭I'm speaking for myself and my build; right now I'm sticking with the subclass. I tried the PTS class passives, and my DPS is lower...PCEU1 -
Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wild guess: their data said that a majority of players really hated subclassing.
It could've been really good if there were guardrails against degeneracy. It didn't need to also swap out passives. It didn't need to allow for tri-classing. What a wasted chance.
The main thing I disliked was seeing warden charm EVERYWHERE.3 -
OsUfi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Third page of this thread, and I still can't see how ZoS are "destroying" subclassing.
The only thing I have learned is that the majority of people hate subclassing. Except for the majority that don't.
Wait...4 -
duagloth✭✭✭✭✭Subclassing was not asked for, spellcrafting was. Class mastery is just a cover for finally fixing stale outdated classes.
That isn't true. This has been asked for over the years because people felt the spirit of Elder Scrolls was to mix and match whatever skills you want to on your characters. Some have argued it hasn't gone far enough in that regards.
I'm happy for the pure class buffs as someone who has a mix of subclassed and pure classes. The subclassed characters can optimize for their roles better than my pure classes since they can pick all the best passives, whereas my pure classes have less useful passives as a whole for their roles. I hope this brings them up to par a bit more.
We asked for class change tokens, subclassing was the compromise.1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
What is this about? If your set your subscription to say yearly will it revert to 30 day then timing out?As for subscriptions, since EU subscriptions renew as a (way more expensive) 30 days subscription in malicious compliance with EU consumer protection laws, I'm certainly not the only one who immediately cancels after subscribing, so any protest-cancelling will be lost in the noise.
Mine just updated to yearly, i saw i had a lots of crownsEdited by zaria on May 13, 2026 11:40AMGrinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
nightbringer1993✭✭✭✭Wild guess: their data said that a majority of players really hated subclassing.
It could've been really good if there were guardrails against degeneracy. It didn't need to also swap out passives. It didn't need to allow for tri-classing. What a wasted chance.
The main thing I disliked was seeing warden charm EVERYWHERE.
And it is about to get worst in update 51. This is one of the reasons why I left the game. That and necromancer being heavily mistreated.
PC EU0 -
Ardriel✭✭✭✭✭Third page of this thread, and I still can't see how ZoS are "destroying" subclassing.
The only thing I have learned is that the majority of people hate subclassing. Except for the majority that don't.
Wait...
One thing is certain: the vast majority of players are using subclassing. And they are benefiting from its advantages. And these poor players are only doing this because they’re forced to play the meta. Of couse it's pathetic to do awesome dps with easy cheesy beam build. Its a disgrace to get trifectas and other achievements that way. That’s why everyone hates it, right? We all hate huge dps numbers anyway. Don't we? First of all we healers and tanks. We prefer low dps which makes supporting much more exciting and interesting in vet dungeons and in trials.
Insane dps level has destroyed the game after all. Thats why everyone hates subclassing and is looking forward to update 50. Everything will be better with update 50..
Wait...
The only thing I have learned after third page of this thread is that something's not right here...
Edited by Ardriel on May 13, 2026 12:15PM0 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭Third page of this thread, and I still can't see how ZoS are "destroying" subclassing.
The only thing I have learned is that the majority of people hate subclassing. Except for the majority that don't.
Wait...
One thing is certain: the vast majority of players are using subclassing. And they are benefiting from its advantages. And these poor players are only doing this because they’re forced to play the meta. Of couse it's pathetic to do awesome dps with easy cheesy beam build. Its a disgrace to get trifectas and other achievements that way. That’s why everyone hates it, right? We all hate huge dps numbers anyway. Don't we? First of all we healers and tanks. We prefer low dps which makes supporting much more exciting and interesting in vet dungeons and in trials.
Insane dps level has destroyed the game after all. Thats why everyone hates subclassing and is looking forward to update 50. Everything will be better with update 50..
Wait...
The only thing I have learned after third page of this thread is that something's not right here...
Players using subclassing doesnt mean they like it. Players having to subclass to compete despite prefering pure classes might actually hate it more than the players who can keep playing their pure class and still do fine.PC EU2 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭Subclassing was not asked for, spellcrafting was. Class mastery is just a cover for finally fixing stale outdated classes.
That isn't true. This has been asked for over the years because people felt the spirit of Elder Scrolls was to mix and match whatever skills you want to on your characters. Some have argued it hasn't gone far enough in that regards.
I'm happy for the pure class buffs as someone who has a mix of subclassed and pure classes. The subclassed characters can optimize for their roles better than my pure classes since they can pick all the best passives, whereas my pure classes have less useful passives as a whole for their roles. I hope this brings them up to par a bit more.
We asked for class change tokens, subclassing was the compromise.
This compromise was actually worse than both adding and not adding class change tokens.
Using token to change your class doesnt make you stronger than just using a character of that class. It is just faster (as you dont have to create and progress that char).
ZOS could let players swap their class as easily as swapping their mundus or armor or subclass line and it would not have nearly the same negative impact as subclassing.
And if you want all 3 classlines or classset or classscript you still have to level that char with subclassing.PC EU1 -
SolarRune✭✭✭✭If it was something as simple as you suggest they would have done it - I don't believe it's a simple change because it would be simple monetisation. And they developed a whole new system to provide something else and then made it base game so people didn't have to pay for it..0 -
CatalinaWineMixer2✭✭✭✭Third page of this thread, and I still can't see how ZoS are "destroying" subclassing.
The only thing I have learned is that the majority of people hate subclassing. Except for the majority that don't.
Wait...
One thing is certain: the vast majority of players are using subclassing. And they are benefiting from its advantages. And these poor players are only doing this because they’re forced to play the meta. Of couse it's pathetic to do awesome dps with easy cheesy beam build. Its a disgrace to get trifectas and other achievements that way. That’s why everyone hates it, right? We all hate huge dps numbers anyway. Don't we? First of all we healers and tanks. We prefer low dps which makes supporting much more exciting and interesting in vet dungeons and in trials.
Insane dps level has destroyed the game after all. Thats why everyone hates subclassing and is looking forward to update 50. Everything will be better with update 50..
Wait...
The only thing I have learned after third page of this thread is that something's not right here...
No one in their right mind can run a Pure Class character, they are that inferior. Even with the upcoming Class Passives, they are inferior. Im not talking about the new broken mythic either, that is another ball game and its only exacerbating the already out of control combat.0 -
shadyjane62✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sub classing isn't being destroyed. Their overpowering advantage over pure classes like me, a Templar, is being evened out.
My well of sympathy for sub classers is empty after a year of not even being close to competitive.2 -
Alaztor91✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pure Class vs Subclassing might end up in a more balanced place after they finish all the 7 Class reworks since by then no Class will have dedicated DPS/Tank/Healer skill lines so minmaxing a specific role via passive stacking should no longer be a thing.
Until then we will just have to wait and deal with the consequences of ZOS rushing this feature(or you can just play something else in the meantime). This is ofc assuming that they don't simply abandon the whole ''class refresh'' initiative.
Edited by Alaztor91 on May 13, 2026 10:17PM2 -
JohnRingo✭✭✭CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »Third page of this thread, and I still can't see how ZoS are "destroying" subclassing.
The only thing I have learned is that the majority of people hate subclassing. Except for the majority that don't.
Wait...
One thing is certain: the vast majority of players are using subclassing. And they are benefiting from its advantages. And these poor players are only doing this because they’re forced to play the meta. Of couse it's pathetic to do awesome dps with easy cheesy beam build. Its a disgrace to get trifectas and other achievements that way. That’s why everyone hates it, right? We all hate huge dps numbers anyway. Don't we? First of all we healers and tanks. We prefer low dps which makes supporting much more exciting and interesting in vet dungeons and in trials.
Insane dps level has destroyed the game after all. Thats why everyone hates subclassing and is looking forward to update 50. Everything will be better with update 50..
Wait...
The only thing I have learned after third page of this thread is that something's not right here...
No one in their right mind can run a Pure Class character, they are that inferior. Even with the upcoming Class Passives, they are inferior. Im not talking about the new broken mythic either, that is another ball game and its only exacerbating the already out of control combat.
This is an assumption I would not make post Update 50.
Pure classes now gain powerful passive synergies specifically designed to amplify their native mechanics, such as DK fire escalation or Warden status-control and sustain warfare. This creates multiplicative scaling across offense, defense, sustain, and ultimate generation simultaneously. Subclassing still provides flexibility and niche combinations, but it sacrifices these mastery bonuses and often produces fragmented ecosystems with weaker long-fight coherence. That is the intent as I understand itEdited by JohnRingo on May 13, 2026 11:41PM2 -
Ardriel✭✭✭✭✭shadyjane62 wrote: »Sub classing isn't being destroyed. Their overpowering advantage over pure classes like me, a Templar, is being evened out.
My well of sympathy for sub classers is empty after a year of not even being close to competitive.
At least for your templar class this is not going to happen, I'm sorry. You should read pts forums. Templar pure class will be far from competitive with update 50.
Subclassing will be destroyed because with these buffs for - certain - classes, no one who wants to be competetive will use it any longer. Fact. Subclassing will remain a niche feature for solo players like oakensoal. Maybe still interesting for supporter roles... DDs using subclassed builds will be labelled as weak players and excluded from vet content like what is happening to Oakensoal/HA build players right now.
Instead of balancing subclassing - which could be just nerfing arcanist skillline - they are going to buff pure classes and bring even more damage into the game. This isn't going to make the game healthier and won't bring the balance people are hoping for.
Right now, pure classes are way too weak. That’s absolutely correct.
The right approach, however, would be to balance subclassing—that is, to nerf op skill lines like Herald of the Tome—and to buff pure classes slightly, so that no one is at a disadvantage if they stick with their class and don’t use subclassing.
Unfortunately, that won’t happen with the next update. Instead, there will be an even greater imbalance between the classes, and players will once again be forced to play a specific class. Doesn’t anyone get it?
Of course, they say that the final balance will be achieved gradually as the classes are reworked, and that this is just a temporary solution.
In my opinion, that’s not a good solution. And it will be a long time before all the classes are reworked. Nothing is going to get better. After the update, the whining about the individual class buffs will start again. Mark my words.Edited by Ardriel on May 14, 2026 4:17AM0 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wild guess: their data said that a majority of players really hated subclassing.
It could've been really good if there were guardrails against degeneracy. It didn't need to also swap out passives. It didn't need to allow for tri-classing. What a wasted chance.
The main thing I disliked was seeing warden charm EVERYWHERE.
Thats always been a class balance issue though. If warden had been first on the remaster list you would still be seeing it everywhere.
Also, oddly enough the issue still persists that pvp is still where the bulk of combat frustrations live in this game...0 -
Ardriel✭✭✭✭✭CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »Third page of this thread, and I still can't see how ZoS are "destroying" subclassing.
The only thing I have learned is that the majority of people hate subclassing. Except for the majority that don't.
Wait...
One thing is certain: the vast majority of players are using subclassing. And they are benefiting from its advantages. And these poor players are only doing this because they’re forced to play the meta. Of couse it's pathetic to do awesome dps with easy cheesy beam build. Its a disgrace to get trifectas and other achievements that way. That’s why everyone hates it, right? We all hate huge dps numbers anyway. Don't we? First of all we healers and tanks. We prefer low dps which makes supporting much more exciting and interesting in vet dungeons and in trials.
Insane dps level has destroyed the game after all. Thats why everyone hates subclassing and is looking forward to update 50. Everything will be better with update 50..
Wait...
The only thing I have learned after third page of this thread is that something's not right here...
No one in their right mind can run a Pure Class character, they are that inferior. Even with the upcoming Class Passives, they are inferior. Im not talking about the new broken mythic either, that is another ball game and its only exacerbating the already out of control combat.
This is an assumption I would not make post Update 50.
Pure classes now gain powerful passive synergies specifically designed to amplify their native mechanics, such as DK fire escalation or Warden status-control and sustain warfare. This creates multiplicative scaling across offense, defense, sustain, and ultimate generation simultaneously. Subclassing still provides flexibility and niche combinations, but it sacrifices these mastery bonuses and often produces fragmented ecosystems with weaker long-fight coherence. That is the intent as I understand it
In that post, they were referring to my statement and to the current situation (update 49).0
