It’s Time. Drop the Class System.

Casul · March 29

If you’ve clicked this topic you either agree completely or are coming to rip my head off. Either way you are here so may as well drop a comment.

Hello Developers, I approach you with a simple statement. The class system of ESO is long past its prime. Hybridization and subclassing has opened the Pandora’s box of character freedom and cannot be closed. We can keep running in these circles of trying to find the happy medium between pure classes and subclasses but the reality remains.

Classes should be freely changed with subclassing.

I know there are some aspects that have been mentioned in the past as potentially conflicting with this stance so I give my opinions on the solutions.

Class Scripts: Require 2 skill lines in order to have the specific class script active. Otherwise generate another “jack of trades” style effect that would activate if you were using 1 line from 3 different classes. A simple example would be something akin to “Increase scribing skill damage by ?% for ? Seconds” but obviously there may be better options. Maybe someone can comment their solution below.

Class Sets: Simplest solution, just open these up completely. The freedom to mix sets is a staple of ESO and I see no reason class sets should be the exception.

Dialogue: This is the toughest, I would say just leave this as whatever your character was created as for simplicity and to avoid unnecessary coding. Otherwise there must be some form of character flag being used to indicate the class that was selected. Maybe you could add a selection in the character menu similar to the guild selection (could even require it to have the new class mastery titles unlocked)

This would also work great with the new class mastery system as it would let players try out the new passives as long as they have mastered all the skill lines. Which based on the achievements would be a requirement anyways since you need all 3 skill lines from that class.

Rohamad_Ali · March 29

This one wishes you nothing but peace and blessing even though not agreeing with dropping class system base. Too many games with universal build systems turn stale and boring (to me) with that style. Understanding this is the single player style of Elder Scrolls canon, in a MMO, I believe the original devs had it right at launch.

Soarora · March 29

I do think base classes should still be changeable, whether that’s via token or via selecting a base class with subclassing. I wouldn’t call that dropping the class system though. Dropping the class system to me would be removing the concept of sorcerer, dragonknight, etc. which I would strongly disagree with. A classless MMO would be interesting… but it’s far too late to do that to this game. Changing core systems 10 years in is crazy.

Trier_Sero · March 29

Remove subclassing guys. It's still not too late.

randconfig · March 29

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

This one wishes you nothing but peace and blessing even though not agreeing with dropping class system base. Too many games with universal build systems turn stale and boring (to me) with that style. Understanding this is the single player style of Elder Scrolls canon, in a MMO, I believe the original devs had it right at launch.

I agree with this one.

The only thing I think would be acceptable is the ability to change your class via respec. Class restrictions must remain though otherwise the game will become stale with everyone more or less running the same setup.

Rungar · March 29

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

This one wishes you nothing but peace and blessing even though not agreeing with dropping class system base. Too many games with universal build systems turn stale and boring (to me) with that style. Understanding this is the single player style of Elder Scrolls canon, in a MMO, I believe the original devs had it right at launch.

naa they had it wrong. Each skill line should of been its own thing like oblivion or even skyrim. They almost had it with subclassing but they forgot the most important step:

a damage type and role based specialization system to replace cp.

had they done that rather than the class refresh they would of had the freedom of the subclass system but also the identity of the specialization system since each damage type would be represented. This would of been very important to balance pvp but they chickened out and went back to what they know i guess (which never worked). Too bad.

peacenote · March 29

I don't agree with you but will not rip your head off.

I understand that some people want this; I personally do not. I've explained why in detail in multiple other threads so I won't do it again here. A recent poll that touches on this idea, in which I wrote some of my thoughts, is here if anyone wants to read more. It's about changing classes on the fly, as opposed to eliminating them, but I personally would not enjoy either of these ideas being implemented, and my reasons similar/related for both scenarios.

There are lots of games with open, classless character advancement. I've played them. I've enjoyed them. But I also like games with classes, and it's one of the things I love about ESO. I would prefer to play a different game when I have the urge to make a sandbox build as opposed to have ESO turn into a completely different game, which it would be without classes.

Pcgamer · March 29

With all due respect OP, if they changed the current class system then this game would no longer be ESO. As is with all the changes we've had already and those changes that are yet to come, eso is starting to feel like a different game.

I'd rather be able to race change for free. I subscribe to eso so i don't expsct a free game but race changes would feel right being free as that would make build creation easier. Just my opinion afcourse.

It would also be cool if we could pay to chage our class...not expecting that to be free. I know my partner would love to change his main character's class cos he's just returned a few months ago and he wishes his main was a different class.

Have a great day/evening OP

Palumtra · March 29

We shall see if the "pure class passives" will make some amends for subclassing and how the other class reworks play out.

Erickson9610 · March 29

I think it's totally fair to want to change the Class of your character given all of the class-exclusive things like Class Sets and Class Masteries (both Scribing and passives) that you'll never be able to use. And with these reworks changing everything about your Class, I think it's a valid concern.

Subclassing does not address the problem of people no longer liking how their Class functions or feels.

Jestir · March 29

I wouldn't say "drop the class system" but yes I would absolutely love a way to change a characters class

CatalinaWineMixer2 · March 30

I have to say this is a hard no. We lost half and in some cases more than half of our guild members and friends already because of Subclass. They quit the game. They will not come back either. The ones who did are even more upset their DK tanks are now WORSE after the refresh. It's so deeply deeply unpopular they have to rework all of our characters because they are broken and that is taking YEARS. People are still leaving because they don't want to wait YEARS to be their Necro again. I have said this before but they need to ELIMINATE Subclassing. It is a CHERRY PICKING SYSTEM that has broken this game. It is going to continue to break the game.
Any new classes they would add in the future are going to be instantly cherry picked and exploited. Because of this and other reasons, I hope they do not add new classes anymore. Its bad enough people are already trying to pick apart the new DK. I do not believe they can actually balance this. It really saddens me because I truly used to look forward to new classes in the past. The class Mastery for pure class MIGHT help with this, but again its already been a YEAR. Character refresh, YEARS. They could eliminate Subclassing TOMORROW. Im saying this as a ten year Eso vet. I used to love this game. It was my favorite game until Subclassing. It is currently not.

Vaqual · March 30

Sequential class reworks are really a massive test of patience for many players. I am not thrilled about waiting so long, when cosmetic changes and combat re-balancing could just as well be uncoupled. If the DK rework had not been so qualitatively good I'd probably be taking a long hiatus. I can see why the desire to swap classes on demand would be more desirable now that we basically have a system that could allow it. Especially if players find themselves having a very different experience than they did years ago. I think the ideas you had make sense. But at the same time it doesn't feel quite right. Choices without consequences just rarely feel good. What I would like to see is that such a class swap or even subclassing unlocks would somehow be tied to some form of in-game, lore-friendly effort.

In essence there are roughly two types of perspectives to consider, based on what I have seen on this forum:

1. "Why would I ever need alts if one character can do it all?"
2. "What is the value for me if I have to re-roll the same character on a different class?"

I have to say I don't care much about opinion #1, as I don't really need the company to figure out reasons to play other toons. I gravitate much more towards #2. If I no longer like my class, but I do like my character I would certainly not be thrilled to replay a load of boring content just to catch up with being the same guy on a different class again (I did it and I hated it). However, I do agree that there is some merit in having classes as overarching brackets for synergies. It allows the designers to add depth through mutually exclusive choices. To change that fully should come at a cost or at least with some measure of moderate inconvenience (not as much as repeating 20 zones worth of quests of course), to discourage players from just abandoning the roleplay aspect fully. Maybe something like re-leveling all 3 base skill lines of the class you swap to (not affecting subclassed lines).

AlienatedGoat · March 30

I'll just say that the devs need to either go all-in on this single player TES power fantasy or go back to the traditional MMO class-based system they created at launch. There's gotta be a full commitment one way or the other. This half-way compromise is creating more trouble than it's worth.

barney2525 · March 30

The One thing This, or Any game needs is one single Meta, all the time.

< that was sarcastic >

heavenelva · March 30

Nerf the power of other classes' skills by a third to a half, players will make their own choices.

mitchtheelder · March 30

nah we like classes man its nice and i apploud the new class specific skills incoming in u50 but nice view of yours. cheers

BXR_Lonestar · March 30

Nah. The game has added all these things to break down the class system, and the game has been worse off for it - in both PVE and PVP. Just as these steps were added piece by piece, its time to start undoing it piece by piece. Its time to accept that the classic Elder Scrolls model of character building that is present in the single player games does not work in a multi-player environment, and then do what must be done: completely undo these changes.

DestroyerPewnack · March 30

Hello. I am here to rip your head off. If you can kindly get comfortable in this guillotine...

o_Primate_o · March 30

why not get rid of races too?

edward_frigidhands · March 30

Casul wrote: »

If you’ve clicked this topic you either agree completely or are coming to rip my head off. Either way you are here so may as well drop a comment.

Hello Developers, I approach you with a simple statement. The class system of ESO is long past its prime. Hybridization and subclassing has opened the Pandora’s box of character freedom and cannot be closed. We can keep running in these circles of trying to find the happy medium between pure classes and subclasses but the reality remains.

Classes should be freely changed with subclassing.

I know there are some aspects that have been mentioned in the past as potentially conflicting with this stance so I give my opinions on the solutions.

Class Scripts: Require 2 skill lines in order to have the specific class script active. Otherwise generate another “jack of trades” style effect that would activate if you were using 1 line from 3 different classes. A simple example would be something akin to “Increase scribing skill damage by ?% for ? Seconds” but obviously there may be better options. Maybe someone can comment their solution below.

Class Sets: Simplest solution, just open these up completely. The freedom to mix sets is a staple of ESO and I see no reason class sets should be the exception.

Dialogue: This is the toughest, I would say just leave this as whatever your character was created as for simplicity and to avoid unnecessary coding. Otherwise there must be some form of character flag being used to indicate the class that was selected. Maybe you could add a selection in the character menu similar to the guild selection (could even require it to have the new class mastery titles unlocked)

This would also work great with the new class mastery system as it would let players try out the new passives as long as they have mastered all the skill lines. Which based on the achievements would be a requirement anyways since you need all 3 skill lines from that class.

Fully agreed.

Casul · March 30

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Hello. I am here to rip your head off. If you can kindly get comfortable in this guillotine...

*Casts Shadowy Disguise*

LadyGP · March 30

Trier_Sero wrote: »

Remove subclassing guys. It's still not too late.

This.

richo262 · March 30

I don't mind the idea of making a 'Nomad' that is classless and can chop and change sub classes at will.

How does the 'signature' script work? Unless that system is overhauled, you'll need to set your class somehow.

In order to make characters unique, they'd need to buff racial passives so the game focuses more on your race to make sure not every alt feels the same.

robwolf666 · March 30

Thread: Nope.

tauriel01 · March 30

I'm sure if ZOS COULD get rid of classes and stam/mag differentiation, they would have years ago. Almost certainly it's all hard baked into the code. That was obvious when they tried to change the jewelry enchants for max magic dam and max physical damage. they couldn't make just one rune for both, so they had to keep two and added a little bit of sustain. It's all hard baked into the code, they would have to rewrite 25million + Lines of code to get rid of all that entirely. So don't expect any of that to change. Too bad for those who want to get rid of it, little comfort to those who wish there was more to distinguish playing stam or mag or even different classes.

Wizhunter · March 30

I think you have choices, if you want to subclass then do it, if you don't then don't. It's not something you are forced to do so why let it spoil your enjoyment of the game. I thought Nightblades using Staffs was ridiculous when i first heard about it but now it's probably used more than Daggers. I say to each his own, play the game how you want to play. I have just returned so pretty new to some of the changes, i hate Scrying, mainly because i don't understand it properly. Every game has something not everyone is going to like, it's the nature of being a gamer.

El_Borracho · March 30

Classes are there to force players to make a decision that comes with advantages and drawbacks. That worked fine until subclassing. If anything, I'd rather scrap subclassing and go back to pure classes. Even better, get rid of hybridization, too.

Horace-Wimp · March 30

Then ESO would have no class.

robwolf666 · March 30

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

Then ESO would have no class.

Nice. 😏

xFocused · March 30

Trier_Sero wrote: »

Remove subclassing guys. It's still not too late.

This is all that really needs to be said.

Subclassing was a mistake and should've never been implemented. Who asked for it? I honestly can't recall ever seeing anyone in these forums, zone chat, game chat or even Reddit saying "Boy I wish we had sub/multi classing!"

And the fact that Zos did this without even gauging the community is what makes it so much worse. They could've released a poll, statement, literally anything to ask the community "How would you feel if we introduced this?" and instead just ran head first with it and now there's been more requests for Zos to get rid of it rather than asking for it.

I like the DK re-work, I think it's what all these classes need. A class re-fresh for their core skills. That's what should've happened over sub/multi classing. And if Zos wanted to introduce more "refreshing" skills for classes, why not introduce more scripts and scribing skills? Maybe do a re-fresh of other skill lines like Fighters Guild, Mages Guild, Etc...

It's honestly a shame to see how the subclassing update drove away as many players as it did. I've lost a lot of friends and acquaintances from the update and I can't really blame them. Class identity was such a big part of this game and by the time they get done releasing all these new class re-works it'll be too late