Losing Tel Var Stones Dumb

PhxOldGamer68 · January 25

If you don’t lose Alliance Points in Cyrodiil, then you shouldn’t lose Tel Var stones in IC. This is the worst idea in the history of the game. IC is such a cool place to roam, quest and PVP. But losing stones is the main reason why the population is never a lot.

coop500 · January 25

*Grabs popcorn*
Prepare OP, prepare yourself...

kargen27 · January 25

The chance of losing stones is what makes Imperial City unique and fun. It is the only zone where a death has an actual consequence. I think the popularity of Imperial City began dropping when flags were added. Flags created a mechanic where one faction would have advantage over the other factions. That almost completely put a stop to large sustained battles that could last a couple of hours.

ShadowPaladin · January 25

kargen27 wrote: »

The chance of losing stones is what makes Imperial City disliked and no fun. It is the only zone where a death has an actual consequence. I think the popularity of Imperial City began dropping when flags were added Telvars and their loss were introduced and lags during large scale fights became ridiculous. Flags created a mechanic where one faction would have advantage over the other factions. That almost completely put a stop to large sustained battles that could last a couple of hours.

I corrected it for you

.

Ilumia · January 25

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

The chance of losing stones is what makes Imperial City disliked and no fun. It is the only zone where a death has an actual consequence. I think the popularity of Imperial City began dropping when flags were added Telvars and their loss were introduced and lags during large scale fights became ridiculous. Flags created a mechanic where one faction would have advantage over the other factions. That almost completely put a stop to large sustained battles that could last a couple of hours.

I corrected it for you .

This question is incredibly inept considering I've played eso since the beta, but was IC not always like that - I mean, wasn't tel var always lost upon death?

JavaRen · January 25

Bank your telvar often, you only stand to lose your most recent acquisitions, problem solved?

robertlabrie · January 25

You used to be able to port out any time you wanted by queueing for Cyrodiil but that's getting "fixed" in U49. Losing TV is fine and outside of the event you can farm the sewers around your base for hours and be unbothered.

LittleLionLeone · January 25

You have to be able to lose them, otherwise they would also have to remove the multiplier that applies when you have certain amounts. If you could safely stack 10k stones at all times then you would end up with hundreds of thousands of tel var from the 4x multiplier.

The population in IC is low because it's just old outdated content that hasn't been touched in forever and will probably get worse once they make it to where you have to go through the sewers to get out (or use retreat stone or die.)

code65536 · January 25

kargen27 wrote: »

I think the popularity of Imperial City began dropping when flags were added.

I think the popularity of Imperial City dropped when it no longer had a monopoly on max-level gear. Remember the days when the only way to get VR15/16 gear was the IC DLC? Remember the days the way to get Ancestor Silk was to buy it using Tel-Var, and that crafting a white item was multiple times more expensive than upgrading it to gold?

The only time IC was popular was back in the day when people were effectively forced into IC.

Hapexamendios · January 26

If there wasn't a Tel Var loss, I would go in more often. Far too steep a penalty for me to stay interested in the content.

JinKC98 · January 26

Agreed. Losing half the Tel Var to some unemployed gankers in Invisibility hiding outside near home Base is just BS... Granted I'm impressed by the dedication, still...

Lekjih · January 26

I enjoy Imp city as is. It's fun to have stakes in the fight, and I am saying this as someone who dies and loses tv more often than not. It's a different type of game play. I agree that if tv isn't lost, then the multiplier has to go and every mob should drop no more than 1-5 tv. It's supposed to be valuable, it's the stones off of the white gold tower and even the daedra want it, which is why they rummage through our pockets for it.

Malyore · January 26

It's funny to me because both sides are right imo. I almost never partake in IC unless it's to get a mythic lead, and I play very cautiously and am so protective of whatever smattering of Tel Var I can get. Since losing rewards makes a lot of the effort there feel wasted, I don't play there as much as I would Cyrodiil.

And yet being so on edge in IC makes it very fun. Nowhere else in the game am I checking over my shoulder and hiding in corners and using reveal spells on chests and corridors to watch out for ambushes.

Through its punitiveness, it makes it the most lively and focused gameplay for me. And yet, I make a mad dash back to base rather than engage in the combat due to not wanting to lose my tel var.

SilverBride · January 26

I've played games where players lost all their gear and potions etc. when another player defeated them.

Vulkunne · January 26

PhxOldGamer68 wrote: »

If you don’t lose Alliance Points in Cyrodiil, then you shouldn’t lose Tel Var stones in IC. This is the worst idea in the history of the game. IC is such a cool place to roam, quest and PVP. But losing stones is the main reason why the population is never a lot.

AP to me is like another way of handing out 'participation points', it's a way of rewarding those who accomplish goals. The goal conditions were met; the reward gets doled out. Telvars are similar but those are more for personal goals, although a Team could certainly win them as well. You fight in battles you can win personally, and you are rewarded.

You know, I think the real issue here is prevention. I don't visit IC like every day but can get in and at a bare minimum make 10k in Telvars, without getting caught and leave. It can be done. If you have like military training or a killer instinct or really good situational awareness, hunting skills, stuff like that then you'll do just fine.

TheMajority · January 26

Vulkunne wrote: »

You know, I think the real issue here is prevention. I don't visit IC like every day but can get in and at a bare minimum make 10k in Telvars, without getting caught and leave. It can be done. If you have like military training or a killer instinct or really good situational awareness, hunting skills, stuff like that then you'll do just fine.

lol you don't need any of that, u just need to memorize counter attacks and know how to block. situational awareness sure but military training? that's taking it far for a game lol. my mom is 50 and she do great in IC. she just memorized what to do and likes it. otherwise she spend her time making baby blankets for her grandkids lol IC aint that complex

Vulkunne · January 26

TheMajority wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

You know, I think the real issue here is prevention. I don't visit IC like every day but can get in and at a bare minimum make 10k in Telvars, without getting caught and leave. It can be done. If you have like military training or a killer instinct or really good situational awareness, hunting skills, stuff like that then you'll do just fine.

lol you don't need any of that, u just need to memorize counter attacks and know how to block. situational awareness sure but military training? that's taking it far for a game lol. my mom is 50 and she do great in IC. she just memorized what to do and likes it. otherwise she spend her time making baby blankets for her grandkids lol IC aint that complex

Ok well here's the thing. There's no shame in what I said.

Regardless of whatever others think of me or what I have said two things are going to happen here:

1) People are not going to change.
2) I will continue to increase.

That's it. Feel free to say what ya like.

But know... these two things are for certain.

Attorneyatlawl · January 26

Ilumia wrote: »

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

The chance of losing stones is what makes Imperial City disliked and no fun. It is the only zone where a death has an actual consequence. I think the popularity of Imperial City began dropping when flags were added Telvars and their loss were introduced and lags during large scale fights became ridiculous. Flags created a mechanic where one faction would have advantage over the other factions. That almost completely put a stop to large sustained battles that could last a couple of hours.

I corrected it for you .

This question is incredibly inept considering I've played eso since the beta, but was IC not always like that - I mean, wasn't tel var always lost upon death?

Yes, imperial city was added in mid-late 2025, and even on pts had a tel var loss for dying. It started as 80% but was reduced later to 50% as a result of player feedback.

It's a good design and makes for a unique zone.

Attorneyatlawl · January 26

OP: tel var loss is the thing that makes the zone fun and exciting. It's a different gameplay mode.

spartaxoxo · January 26

I sometimes think wonder how busy IC would be if they had made it 40% instead back then. I feel like there's just something that's more appealing to "you keep most of your Tel-Var," than "you lose half your Tel-Var," even if the difference isn't that crazy in amounts. Like how people buy more stuff if it's 1.99 instead of 2.00 bucks. Nobody who's hard paying attention to the price is going "oh, well, it's 1 penny more! No way," but if you're not then it's easy to read 1.99 as a buck and some change.

Feels like that ship has sailed though because nobody is going to be impressed with a 10% difference at this point and the zone is inherently not very new player friendly.

katanagirl1 · January 26

I can never get a lot of tel var because I head back to bank it when I hit about 5000, I start feeling nervous at that point.

In Cyrodiil you can slot revealing flare and use it at doors when repairing or when you see an enemy not respawn and stay where he is, hoping for one of his invisible buddies to revive him. The rest of the time you are pretty safe. IC, however, is riddled with invisible guys waiting just about anywhere, you can’t drop flares everywhere there could be someone hiding. You can also get steamrolled by a Zerg out of nowhere.

It’s just a frustrating experience for even this veteran PvPer. Only the best of the best players enjoy it.

ApoAlaia · January 26

I have always advocated for IC being an actual PvPvE zone.

As it stands, the way I see it, it isn't.

PvE content is trivial (in terms of challenge) for both PvE and PvP players.

Furthermore actual PvE players are trivial for PvP players.

Therefore if everything other than PvP players is trivial is not a PvPvE zone. Is just a PvP zone with very minor and scattered PvE inconveniences.

It used to be a bit more 'inconvenient' before the change to destro staves and HAs - at least PvP players had to have a modicum of situational awareness around PvE 'hazards' - but for some reason ZOS changed that.

What I'd like to see is, in line with the upcoming - and much requested mind you - changes to dungeons, a 'normal' IC where no tel var drops other than the scripted rewards from the zone quests so people can enjoy the story content - which might be tainted by nostalgia but I remember as quite decent - in peace and a 'vet' IC.

In 'vet' IC PvE trash/bosses would be comparable to modern (RG and beyond) vet trial enemies in terms of health/damage/mechanics etc and of course there would be tel var rewards and one would lose tel var on death.

Keep the bosses 'unleashed' as they are now rather than confining them to an area like trial bosses.

This way if one jumped into IC as a PvE player with one's group one would have a good time doing the PvE content but there would always be the risk of PvP players joining the fray and making one's day interesting.

Conversely 'lone' PvP sneaky players would have a much more challenging (so better right? aren't we all here for the challenge?) time farming 'PvE piñatas' or other PvP players as they would have the PvE 'hazard' to consider.

If one is fully geared and grouped for PvP (or solo even with one of those 'give people the runaround' 1vX builds) one might make short work of the PvE group currently engaged in combat but the moment one/one's group catches a whiff of aggro from the relevant boss and its minions one's day would become a lot more interesting.

Of course keep the upcoming change in U49 about 'jumping to cyro' (although I'd rather a less punitive change; make it so it is still possible if one is 'out of combat' rather than a 'blanket ban' as is currently proposed) and make it so one cannot interact with doors/sewer manholes etc for as long as one 'has aggro'.

No wiping the floor with the PvE group and bailing, now one has to either take care of the boss/trash or... well, die.

Not sure what the 'rules' currently are - never tried to do this actually - but ofc logging out while having aggro = death. As mentioned above, no bailing.

That would be an actual PvPvE zone the way I see it.

The casualty ofc would be the solo PvE player (that would be me currently) alas I think it would be worth it.

It would also encourage a more diverse and 'hybrid' arrangement when it comes to builds, group composition etc. I think.

IMO worth a shot because as it is currently IC is PvPvE only in name.

Necrotech_Master · January 26

Ilumia wrote: »

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

The chance of losing stones is what makes Imperial City disliked and no fun. It is the only zone where a death has an actual consequence. I think the popularity of Imperial City began dropping when flags were added Telvars and their loss were introduced and lags during large scale fights became ridiculous. Flags created a mechanic where one faction would have advantage over the other factions. That almost completely put a stop to large sustained battles that could last a couple of hours.

I corrected it for you .

This question is incredibly inept considering I've played eso since the beta, but was IC not always like that - I mean, wasn't tel var always lost upon death?

originally it was you lost 80% dying to a player, and 20% dying to an NPC

so if you knew you were going to die, it was better to have the NPC get the killing blow

i would agree with kargen that IC lost a lot of its value when they added the flags and killing the respawns on the surface, personally i dont mind the flags, i just hate that respawning is tied to flag ownership

opethmaniac · January 26

IC is the only zone in ESO that can generate thrills and tension, creating an atmosphere similar to that of successful extraction shooters.

Without the high-risk, high-reward mechanic, IC would be just as boring and stale as the rest of the game, with trivial content enjoyed by players with a biased PvE perspective, while once again slapping PvP players in the face.

xylena · January 26

opethmaniac wrote: »

Without the high-risk, high-reward mechanic

LOL WHAT RISK? Go in with 0 stones, get 1 lucky kill, leave with thousands even if the rest of the target's group immediately jumps me. Zero risk, all reward, even if I die.

If you want there to be actual risk: players must bet X telvars to enter the zone. Winnings/losses are calculated based on players' entry bets and the size of the pot.

robwolf666 · January 26

PhxOldGamer68 wrote: »

If you don’t lose Alliance Points in Cyrodiil, then you shouldn’t lose Tel Var stones in IC. This is the worst idea in the history of the game. IC is such a cool place to roam, quest and PVP. But losing stones is the main reason why the population is never a lot.

Just carry the minimal amount possible and make sure you bank them regularly. It's what I used to do back in the day.

ApoAlaia · January 26

xylena wrote: »

opethmaniac wrote: »

Without the high-risk, high-reward mechanic

LOL WHAT RISK? Go in with 0 stones, get 1 lucky kill, leave with thousands even if the rest of the target's group immediately jumps me. Zero risk, all reward, even if I die.

If you want there to be actual risk: players must bet X telvars to enter the zone. Winnings/losses are calculated based on players' entry bets and the size of the pot.

Negligible risk in most cases in my experience with IC (outside Mayhem) as everyone is in it for minor risk-minor challenge/max reward kills.

The only 'risk' is when is a 1vX player vs a ganker (for either of them, at this point I am usually already dead). I can't remember the last time I actually saw PvP groups in IC - again outside Mayhem - doing PvP.

Mind you might be that I am there in the AM in PC/EU. Other times/server YMMV I guess.

opethmaniac · January 26

LOL WHAT RISK? Go in with 0 stones, get 1 lucky kill, leave with thousands even if the rest of the target's group immediately jumps me. Zero risk, all reward, even if I die.

Everyone bears the risk. To stick with your example: If I take 2K Telvar from a poor guy, I still have the problem (from update 49 onwards) of getting out.

If you want there to be actual risk: players must bet X telvars to enter the zone. Winnings/losses are calculated based on players' entry bets and the size of the pot.

Cool idea (really!). Count me in.

CalamityCat · January 26

I've played games where death in PvP meant all your gear and current inventory fell into your corpse and could be looted by other players. Losing a bit of tel var just adds the tiniest bit of risk and excitement and for me it's a tax on starting fights I can't finish lol.

I have a really basic strategy for IC... I bank all my tel var before I start. I then accept all the quests and see how quiet/crazy it seems. Then I fight. I have the mindset that it's not my tel var unless it's banked. On quiet sessions I'll try to bank more tel var. Mayhem sessions I'll never be left holding more than 200 tel var anyway because I suck at PvP! So I'll get stuck in there and focus on getting better at PvP and if I win fights, I'm happy with whatever I take away.

If I notice I'm over 2k or get a large amount from a single kill, I'll bank it. Anything below 2k I don't care. Whatever I take out at the end is still more than I started with. If I want to recoup my losses, I just wait until I see a group from my guild/alliance and tag along. Safety in numbers usually means I have a silly amount of tel var in very little time.

Also seriously, learn to be sneaky, stealthy and use terrain/buildings to conceal yourself from enemies you can't beat. Get good at staying out of sight and making a getaway and you'll bank far more tel var. IC is hilarious when you get good at hide and seek!

xylena · January 26

opethmaniac wrote: »

If I take 2K Telvar from a poor guy, I still have the problem (from update 49 onwards) of getting out.

If I start with 0 stones and steal 2k off some unlucky PvE farmer, the worst case scenario at that point is going home with 1k profit. Literally zero risk of a net loss.

Glad you like the betting pot idea, maybe that could be something to advocate for to revitalize the IC mode. I like the currency gambling too, but the system they have is busted.

Veinblood1965 · January 26

robertlabrie wrote: »

You used to be able to port out any time you wanted by queueing for Cyrodiil but that's getting "fixed" in U49. Losing TV is fine and outside of the event you can farm the sewers around your base for hours and be unbothered.

NC.