Kikazaru wrote: »

ummm we did "play and use tactics". But the gap between 2 bars vs pop lock in this mode is a significant advantage towards ep no matter how you spin it.

sorry but I don't think this is true, when EP has lower pop the tactics help us still to defeat AD and DC. Sometimes it helps to tell people in world chat about siege placement, then you can teach the newer players

Kikazaru wrote: »

sure, every faction has their moments of winning against all odds, but from my experience with this faction, it does not happen often and makes for an unpleasant experience.

And yes, ppl in zone tries to guide the new player about "proper siege placements". And yes, we still get bulldozed with overwhelming numbers in the end.

More tools to counter a larger opposing force. All I ask for.

Having only one of each siege type in vengeance campaign is a detriment for successful defense of keeps for sure. I like to run either two or three oils depending on how much space is available. Siege helps even the odds.

Kikazaru wrote: »

they should also remove the aoe caps in future tests.

it just has no place in a pvp environment like cyrodiil. Especially with the overall increase to the faction population.

Still puzzled to why those even needed balance wise whilst they've admitted years ago they don't work as they intend and bring lag along the way. Healing abilities caps are fine, more should be targeted instead of random etc. but caps on damaging aoes need to go asap from those tests.

Desiato wrote: »

Know that you've probably been farming PVE players who barely even try because they are just grinding end of campaign rewards on their alts for transmutes. This hasn't been good PVP for YEARS.

Well yeah, how else am I supposed to roleplay that I'm a PvP god? /s

amiiegee wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

amiiegee wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

To be fair, the player numbers say everything. Saturday EVening, Primetime PC EU not even poplocked. The number of players diminished. The first 3 days were poplock and 100+ queues even outside of primetime

Of cause the numbers go down. Vengeance is stale, boring and bad pvp overall.

On PS EU the bars went from 2 2 2 on the first day to 0 0 0 at prime time, on a saturday.
Nobody wants to play this nonsense.

According to your earlier post PS EU never had 2 2 2 bar(equal to 3 3 3 in PC view and 9 9 9 Grey Host bars) so how can it drop from population numbers it never had to zero.
Did you maybe fake population numbers or time using screenshots from offhours in these earlier posts and forget or did you fake population numbers in this post?

PS EU had 2 2 2 bars at first day of vengeance and now today had 0 0 0 bars during prime time.

I dont know whats wrong about this in your opinion.
Next time you get a time stamp no problem.

Otherwise maybe @Major_Soulless who also plays on the server, can confirm, if he was online.

It's 0 0 0 every time I'm on no matter the time on the server.

By comparison grey host is at peak time 2 bars every alliance sometimes 3 bars

Kikazaru wrote: »

sure, every faction has their moments of winning against all odds, but from my experience with this faction, it does not happen often and makes for an unpleasant experience.

And yes, ppl in zone tries to guide the new player about "proper siege placements". And yes, we still get bulldozed with overwhelming numbers in the end.

More tools to counter a larger opposing force. All I ask for.

So I'm going to go all over the place here. I'll start by saying that though I am highly supportive of Vengeance, its goals and its conceptual approach, Vengeance as it currently exists isn't a great game on many levels.

With that said, the overwhelming numbers you described *should* win in a well-balanced game. In what good PVP game can single players and small groups fight more than 4-5x outnumbered against average, competent players in an objective fight on a regular basis? LIke if you get zerged down by a few guys who aren't total noobs in a decent FPS, good luck.

We saw this all the time in Cyrodiil of the past when the pop caps were higher. Remember Chuck Norris? I was in one of the better ball groups at the time, but we couldn't fight 4 CN groups + pugs with FCs forever. Eventually they would overwhelm us. We could get our own wins by kiting them endlessly, but we'd lose the objective.

The actual problem here are:

1. the AP rewards system
2. the players

The AP rewards system is broken because that 150 player zerg is incentivized to zerg down keeps for the guaranteed otick. If a beefy otick didn't exist, would they bother? Furthermore, countless players who don't care about Cyrodiil are in Vengeance for the Golden Pursuit. The AP rewards are highly useful for levelling Alliance War skill lines on alts. That's what I did with my gp AP rewards.

The players are ESO players. ZOS has two main approaches for appeasing them: offering ever escalating rewards and making things easy. The gift box culture in this game is dominant. These are players who generally engage in extremely basic gameplay for constant rewards through their play sessions. That's what motivates them. In most combat in eso, one can win by pressing any combination of offensive abilities or even just light or heavy attacking with no gear.

That's why I keep coming back to the notion for Vengeance to progress and for ESO PVP to ever have any merit, ZOS needs to expand the PVP audience by drawing in players who don't currently play. And why would a PVP enthusiast want to get into eso in the first place? The ESO that originally drew us in was much different.

With all that said, there is SO MUCH they can do with the AP rewards system to spread players out. The key to making it unattractive to zerg is removing all reward motivations to do so. Make is so if players want a decent AP income, they have to find decent fights in which they don't completely overwhelm their opponents.

But again, I don't support this iteration of Vengeance as a final product. I want to see customization and build diversity. I want to see a lower ttk. I want to see a higher skill cap. But at the same time, I want those things to be balanced.

ESO's combat system was intentionally designed to have a short gcd and no cooldowns, but not with the idea that players would be constantly executing abilities on cooldown. That is a side effect of how easy they've made the PVE side of the game.

Here is what a highly skilled player does to trial mechs. Keep in mind this is U45 before the power boost from Subclassing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CguWxrC9hAY

LOOK AT HIS RESOURCE BARS!!! And he's wearing a support set!

It's not so easy in PVP because fighting decent human opponents isn't so procedural, but it demonstrates my point. Gameplay in ESO is not currently conducive to good pvp. Good PVP should require thoughtful read and react gameplay with good resource management and tactics, not executing proactive routines on a gcd of slightly less than 1 second endlessly without ever running out of resources.

My personal dream would be Vengeance performance with IC era (eso 2.1 in Sept 2015) gameplay. OMG, would I ever nolife that game. I say that understanding it is a fantasy that isn't possible, but I hope ZOS can iterate Vengeance in that direction.

Played Vengeance I and now II, actually was able to find some time to check things out.

- Vengeance Test, regardless of the data involved, from a participation standpoint, was a complete success because it drew the people in and kept them gaming. I know Veng was the only Cyrodiil server however most of the time I was on it was full. We didn't always have a really lengthy login Q but usually there was a wait to get in. So, there was a ton of people there.

- With that in mind, I look at it this way. Ball groups and bombers and um well subclassing and alot of changes ZOS has made... hasn't brought people back to PvP and kept them engaged like Vengeance has. Like we're not all waiting to stare down a ball group, or two, or more and get killed over and over again while the rules don't apply to them. You know, people are not giddy with anticipation for that experience. Ball Groups aren't brining people back ok. We talked about it in zone, some people got really ugly with me about it but they're not. Ok so if you really care the problem is, we are not all taking the same test. Ok. Ball groupers and casuals and solos like me umm it's like we're playing different games. I've been in organized groups and none of us stand a chance to a ball group that just heals and uses the same set and exploitive tactics to win and dominate in an unfriendly manner. I think regardless of numbers, the fact that a group could not just pool buffs, let the machine play the game for them, actually made it easier to fight larger groups. Because you're in my world now... so to speak. Its two or more people with will and wits fighting not um 5/10/15 spamming heals, buffs so 1 person can kill 2 factions, and they can also troll a scroll for AP.

About Scrolls. So, fighting for a scroll in Vengeance was not just a group effort it was a faction effort. And I really liked how the faction, no matter who it was, treated the matter with respect. I just think it's really rude and almost kind of hostile for us all to go thru a difficult Siege in order to get to a scroll, especially the 'home' scrolls and then a ball group just takes it, for as long as they want earning AP with it. You know, you guys are stealing from everyone else when you do that. It's really very selfish and again it makes me not want to go to Cyrodiil, outside of things like Vengeance. Cause I'm not there to enable someone else to force me to engage in a conflict of interest, while we all sit on the outside looking in as you guys 'be seen on your live streams' and make loads of AP. Uh-uh I'm not going along with that anymore, either. Done.

Not to mention, a personal grievance of mine, is several situations where 'the wrong person' that being another player or myself, picked up the scroll or Ham and you guys just stood there and let us get what was coming to us. I lost all respect for ball groups, not the 1st time, nor the 2nd, but the 3rd time you guys did this either to me or someone I know and every one of you should have received at least some kind of warning or a ban for doing that crap. PvP Guild leader too on another occasion. That's a very mean-spirited thing to do and it makes us hate the game when it's not ZOS fault you guys do this stuff to people. Including when we play by YOUR RULES and ask for help. Which I know you wouldn't help but sometimes I like to see just how evil people can be, so I'm reminded who I'm dealing with, and not who I hope they will be.

About Call Outs. So, I am not going to sit here and demand anything of anyone alright. But here's my thing, in Vengeance like if there was a call out in zone, people showed up. Yes, even if it was wrong, they showed up. Rarely do I ever see a Ball Group show up to a call out in zone. Now again, there's no expectation. You don't have to do anything but it's like the Ball Groups with all your power... don't support or coordinate with zone. Perhaps some of you do but many nights I've been logged in and practically no one is working together. In fact, I was told several times not to attempt to contact the ball group. Ok. But why are you guys there if you aren't there to be part of the solution. Maybe some of you are but many times the ball groups don't coordinate, they don't rez, they don't give us info... in other words you guys only really seem to serve yourselves. Just like New World companies and other things like that. I mean, couldn't other players login instead and actually do something to help us out? Instead of their sole purpose being to help themselves? Isn't that what BGs and IC are for?

That said, it was wonderful not to have to deal with ball groups or worry about bombers. Everyone I met in there was great, for the most part but ok that's alright. I've enjoyed many years PvPing with this game and I'm staying with ESO. But unless something changes in Cyrodiil I really don't see any place for me there anymore. Literally because again, why bother logging in when again 5/10/15 people are wiping 2 factions, w/ a scroll sometimes, that they either took themselves or others fought for it and they just took it, and these cats are there for 30m/40m/1 Hour or more NOT DYING, just repetition heals, Rush of Agony + Bombs and Ults just essentially playing the game for them and everyone else just dies. We all have to lose so -you folks- can have your FUN.

I know this is lengthy, I know it won't be well received. But you know what, the way things are Cyrodiil isn't fun anymore and something has to change. Lots of people have come here on their own and posted about this stuff, not necessarily in agreement with me but also not far off the line either. And nothing is getting done. So if its gonna be a couple people on a pedestal and the rest of just dying, with no chance of engaging in actual PvP, then I think that PvP in this game is pretty much dead in Cyrodiil.

amiiegee wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

amiiegee wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

To be fair, the player numbers say everything. Saturday EVening, Primetime PC EU not even poplocked. The number of players diminished. The first 3 days were poplock and 100+ queues even outside of primetime

Of cause the numbers go down. Vengeance is stale, boring and bad pvp overall.

On PS EU the bars went from 2 2 2 on the first day to 0 0 0 at prime time, on a saturday.
Nobody wants to play this nonsense.

According to your earlier post PS EU never had 2 2 2 bar(equal to 3 3 3 in PC view and 9 9 9 Grey Host bars) so how can it drop from population numbers it never had to zero.
Did you maybe fake population numbers or time using screenshots from offhours in these earlier posts and forget or did you fake population numbers in this post?

PS EU had 2 2 2 bars at first day of vengeance and now today had 0 0 0 bars during prime time.

I dont know whats wrong about this in your opinion.
Next time you get a time stamp no problem.

Otherwise maybe @Major_Soulless who also plays on the server, can confirm, if he was online.

amiiegee wrote: »

Tonights sunday Vengeance bars of that really populated test + Time stamp top right since i was accused before.

Problem is not missing timestamp but that you claimed on day 1 and page 1 that Vengeance at prime time had 0 or 1 bars on every alliance only to yesterday claim it decreased from 2 2 2 which according to your earlier posts it never has to 0 0 0 to make decline bigger.
But maybe 2 2 2 was true number and others fake.

amiiegee wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

It’s a test again…to get raw data they could never get on the PTS. I assume they want data off console too now, hence it being on there now too. It’s not the end-all-be-all new way of PVP. It’s for a week. I think everyone will survive.

What data they wanna get? The data how dead this server is?

People will get their pursuit and leave this & not play pvp till this is over.

As ZOS claimed population cap in Vengeance is 3* population cap in standart campaign(3*≈80=≈240) 1(2 in pc view)bar in vengeance is more than a pop locked standart campaign.

amiiegee wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

'Nobody would play it' .

I have been in the queue for 30+ minutes.

And I don't think there are thousand PvE players queuing for 30K gold and some AP points.

its 1 bar each ps eu.

LadyGP wrote: »

amiiegee wrote: »

PLAYSTATION HERE, so its the first time Vengeance.

First of all the positive : The Sky looks pretty. Ah yes and another good thing about it; it will end in a few days. Thought i wont play the game at all in these days.


Well now to the rest. I have played this now for almost 1 hour and its the worst pvp experience i had in ages.
It literally was better, when we still had the old servers and the game was a slide show & skills worked like in round based games.

You have NO own sets, no skill morphes, I have leveled Subclassing in the past days FOR NOTHING, because i cant use it now. The scribing skills i farmed together in the past, i cant use.
Youre slow, you have no ressources at most of the time, it feels like youre not doing anything most of the time.

Its a pure numbers game, the bigger zergs wins.
Not the better player, not the better strategy.

Every pvp battle has the same scheme wich i take time to describe now;



Zerg X with 50 people pushes to Keep 1 fighting Zerg Y with 40 people. Zerg Y gets pushed back , till they are close to the Keep 1 where they are able to respawn, then Zerg Y is Pushing back Zerg X to their own Keep 2.
Till it switches arround again and the scheme repeats.

THIS IS IT. Everyone fighting each other with solo target skills but just in big zerges.

This campaign is OP if youre just the type of pvp player who likes to beam people at full health, while they are getting zerged.

On the PS server im playing on EVERYONE in the chat is complaining.
In the psn party im in, EVERYONE is complaining.

I think its even worse.

I dont know if PC players are suffering sooo much off ball groups and proc sets, they rather prefere this Nonsense ( thats the tenor i read a lot in this forum, when vengeance happened first on PC).
But this is horrible, i wont support playing this test further & as a pure pvp player, if this ever becomes a permanent thing, this was the nail in the coffin for me.

Sigh...

This is a test. Think about it from their perspective. IF your boss came to you with a problem and told you to come up with a solution. Would you spend a year on the solution with a "hunch" it might solve the problem but ZERO data backing up that hunch?

Or, would you do whatever you can as quick as possible to get data to verify if this hunch is legit or not?

Myself, as a developer, and I think anyone that follows even the most basic agile practices would do the quicker/not fully implemented solution to prove the concept. Once proven then you put all your time and energy into the whole final solution.

This is a test, proving if their theory is correct. We would be much more upset if they spent a year of work on PvP only to be back at the drawing board (this has happened... 2... 3 times? over the years FWIW).

They have said many times this is a performance test and to not evaluate the overall combat/skill of the test - strictly the server stability.

I don't understand why people can't grasp this. They have said it on so many streams, social media posts, forum posts, like... forehead meet brick wall.

amiiegee wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

It’s a test again…to get raw data they could never get on the PTS. I assume they want data off console too now, hence it being on there now too. It’s not the end-all-be-all new way of PVP. It’s for a week. I think everyone will survive.

What data they wanna get? The data how dead this server is?

People will get their pursuit and leave this & not play pvp till this is over.

You do realize the vast majority of players are at work right now - right? Just wait till prime time tonight - the fights will be insane. The amount of people on the map will be like it was back on release. They will know with like 90% certainty by the end of the night if the overall theory was a fluke or if "this is legit lets keep going in this direction".

Bookmark it.

Mate this server is PS EU , its 7pm - this is prime time.

Isnt that the campaign where regularly at primetime not even grey host is getting full? There were some Discussions about this.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665783/pvp-is-dead-and-empty-on-playstation-eu-please-enable-crossplay-betwen-consoles
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8326041#Comment_8326041

Can't wait until Vengeance ends and the skill ceiling is lifted.

Iriidius wrote: »

amiiegee wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

amiiegee wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

To be fair, the player numbers say everything. Saturday EVening, Primetime PC EU not even poplocked. The number of players diminished. The first 3 days were poplock and 100+ queues even outside of primetime

Of cause the numbers go down. Vengeance is stale, boring and bad pvp overall.

On PS EU the bars went from 2 2 2 on the first day to 0 0 0 at prime time, on a saturday.
Nobody wants to play this nonsense.

According to your earlier post PS EU never had 2 2 2 bar(equal to 3 3 3 in PC view and 9 9 9 Grey Host bars) so how can it drop from population numbers it never had to zero.
Did you maybe fake population numbers or time using screenshots from offhours in these earlier posts and forget or did you fake population numbers in this post?

PS EU had 2 2 2 bars at first day of vengeance and now today had 0 0 0 bars during prime time.

I dont know whats wrong about this in your opinion.
Next time you get a time stamp no problem.

Otherwise maybe @Major_Soulless who also plays on the server, can confirm, if he was online.

amiiegee wrote: »

Tonights sunday Vengeance bars of that really populated test + Time stamp top right since i was accused before.

Problem is not missing timestamp but that you claimed on day 1 and page 1 that Vengeance at prime time had 0 or 1 bars on every alliance only to yesterday claim it decreased from 2 2 2 which according to your earlier posts it never has to 0 0 0 to make decline bigger.
But maybe 2 2 2 was true number and others fake.

amiiegee wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

It’s a test again…to get raw data they could never get on the PTS. I assume they want data off console too now, hence it being on there now too. It’s not the end-all-be-all new way of PVP. It’s for a week. I think everyone will survive.

What data they wanna get? The data how dead this server is?

People will get their pursuit and leave this & not play pvp till this is over.

As ZOS claimed population cap in Vengeance is 3* population cap in standart campaign(3*≈80=≈240) 1(2 in pc view)bar in vengeance is more than a pop locked standart campaign.

amiiegee wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

'Nobody would play it' .

I have been in the queue for 30+ minutes.

And I don't think there are thousand PvE players queuing for 30K gold and some AP points.

its 1 bar each ps eu.

LadyGP wrote: »

amiiegee wrote: »

PLAYSTATION HERE, so its the first time Vengeance.

First of all the positive : The Sky looks pretty. Ah yes and another good thing about it; it will end in a few days. Thought i wont play the game at all in these days.


Well now to the rest. I have played this now for almost 1 hour and its the worst pvp experience i had in ages.
It literally was better, when we still had the old servers and the game was a slide show & skills worked like in round based games.

You have NO own sets, no skill morphes, I have leveled Subclassing in the past days FOR NOTHING, because i cant use it now. The scribing skills i farmed together in the past, i cant use.
Youre slow, you have no ressources at most of the time, it feels like youre not doing anything most of the time.

Its a pure numbers game, the bigger zergs wins.
Not the better player, not the better strategy.

Every pvp battle has the same scheme wich i take time to describe now;



Zerg X with 50 people pushes to Keep 1 fighting Zerg Y with 40 people. Zerg Y gets pushed back , till they are close to the Keep 1 where they are able to respawn, then Zerg Y is Pushing back Zerg X to their own Keep 2.
Till it switches arround again and the scheme repeats.

THIS IS IT. Everyone fighting each other with solo target skills but just in big zerges.

This campaign is OP if youre just the type of pvp player who likes to beam people at full health, while they are getting zerged.

On the PS server im playing on EVERYONE in the chat is complaining.
In the psn party im in, EVERYONE is complaining.

I think its even worse.

I dont know if PC players are suffering sooo much off ball groups and proc sets, they rather prefere this Nonsense ( thats the tenor i read a lot in this forum, when vengeance happened first on PC).
But this is horrible, i wont support playing this test further & as a pure pvp player, if this ever becomes a permanent thing, this was the nail in the coffin for me.

Sigh...

This is a test. Think about it from their perspective. IF your boss came to you with a problem and told you to come up with a solution. Would you spend a year on the solution with a "hunch" it might solve the problem but ZERO data backing up that hunch?

Or, would you do whatever you can as quick as possible to get data to verify if this hunch is legit or not?

Myself, as a developer, and I think anyone that follows even the most basic agile practices would do the quicker/not fully implemented solution to prove the concept. Once proven then you put all your time and energy into the whole final solution.

This is a test, proving if their theory is correct. We would be much more upset if they spent a year of work on PvP only to be back at the drawing board (this has happened... 2... 3 times? over the years FWIW).

They have said many times this is a performance test and to not evaluate the overall combat/skill of the test - strictly the server stability.

I don't understand why people can't grasp this. They have said it on so many streams, social media posts, forum posts, like... forehead meet brick wall.

amiiegee wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

It’s a test again…to get raw data they could never get on the PTS. I assume they want data off console too now, hence it being on there now too. It’s not the end-all-be-all new way of PVP. It’s for a week. I think everyone will survive.

What data they wanna get? The data how dead this server is?

People will get their pursuit and leave this & not play pvp till this is over.

You do realize the vast majority of players are at work right now - right? Just wait till prime time tonight - the fights will be insane. The amount of people on the map will be like it was back on release. They will know with like 90% certainty by the end of the night if the overall theory was a fluke or if "this is legit lets keep going in this direction".

Bookmark it.

Mate this server is PS EU , its 7pm - this is prime time.

Isnt that the campaign where regularly at primetime not even grey host is getting full? There were some Discussions about this.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665783/pvp-is-dead-and-empty-on-playstation-eu-please-enable-crossplay-betwen-consoles
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8326041#Comment_8326041

I dont know if you missunderstand or i wrote it missunderstandable. I looked back at my writings and im not seeing anything wrong thought.

At the time, of the screenshots i sent, the bars were like in the screenshots i sent.
So if these were 0 to 1 at the screenshot, they were 0-1 at this time.
This doesnt mean the bars were never ever higher thought?
I also have not claimed the bars were never higher? If i did please quote me.

Again:
The maximum bars Vengeance had, were 2 2 2 on the first day of Vengeance.

After that only went lower, wich i reported with screenshots!

I dont know what the fake is, indeed tho - i didnt visual report the 2 2 2 with screenshots, but i mentioned it here text wise in all fairness.

I felt like reporting the decline with screenshots when bars went downhill but since i couldnt know before that the bars will go downhill, i didnt make screenshots in my really first thread inventing post.

I can only make screenshots of bars when im online and i will only do it if i notice something worth to screenshot.

Idk what we are discussing here either, youre not sherlocking something shady but more twisting my words arround, as if i said bars were never higher then 0-1 , wich i did not (again, feel free to quote me and ill apologise).

And now meanwhile indeed 0 bars at prime time, wich is embaressing for a playstation server in a pvp related event.

The bars are a useless metric to compare populations in vengeance. In vengeance 1 the population caps increased throughout the trial. It could well be the case that 0 bars is still bigger than 2 of the normal campaign. Only ZoS have the numbers. In vengeance 1 they dialled it up to 4x the pop caps going by the presentation they did.

My biggest gripe personally about the Vengeance is the imbalance with healing


They raised health to 70k but the skills don't seem to mesh with this which is driving me mad as in normal PvP a heal can nearly fill my whole health bar if it crit heals. Also if you fall you basically die even if you have full health again not the same as normal PvP.

If vengeance is tested again the balance on healing needs to be looked at.

GloatingSwine wrote: »

My dudes, the thing that's being tested with Vengeance is not the balance of Vengeance*. The thing that's being tested is "what happens to the servers when we have hundreds of players in the same place all spamming skills and siege engines at each other".



* Which would not produce a sustainable game mode no matter how you fiddled the numbers, because it's all about giant doomtrains knocking over forts which are too far apart from each other for another doomtrain to respond unless it is already adjacent is fun for a while but wouldn't sustain long term interest because it gets samey.

The logic for their test is flawed if you're right. It can't give accurate data if you're talking away so much that adds to server pressure etc.

Major_Soulless wrote: »

My biggest gripe personally about the Vengeance is the imbalance with healing


They raised health to 70k but the skills don't seem to mesh with this which is driving me mad as in normal PvP a heal can nearly fill my whole health bar if it crit heals. Also if you fall you basically die even if you have full health again not the same as normal PvP.

If vengeance is tested again the balance on healing needs to be looked at.

The healing for the Vengeance 2 test was definitely much stronger than test 1.

The healing for the Vengeance 2 test was definitely much stronger and revealed/confirmed core issues plaguing PvP performance on Live. We discovered early in the test it was rather easy to become almost unkillable, similar to live, and the sequence provided to test was incredibly simple. I removed the second ability for the remainder of the test after the first few hours.

The speed at which veteran PvPers discovered the healing was interesting to watch, some player types and classes definitely moved into discovery much faster than others. Day 5-6 was when I felt the most impact. More comments when the official Feedback Request thread posts from the devs.