tomofhyrule wrote: »

A lot of people keep arguing that ZOS isn't doing crossplay because of the economies or the addons or whatever. It's actually a lot simpler than that:

It's physically impossible with the current server architecture

ESO, unlike other MMOs, runs on a megaserver architecture. That means that any player on a megaserver will be able to play with any other character on a megaserver, but that also means that server transfers are not possible.

I'm sure if this was easy, ZOS would have done it by now. However, we know that they can only copy data from one server to a blank server like they did when the consoles first appeared. Even the PTS every cycle will wipe the data clear and copy a server over from scratch.

If ZOS were to add something like that, they'd need to essentially make a brand new "crossplay" megaserver and then copy and merge all of the data, which would require the creation of a new tool specifically to do so. That definitely would be rife with conflicts and bugs - see what happened with the PTS debacle from last year. It's not impossible to do so, but it would take a lot of work.

One of the first things they could do to help though would be to create a "server transfer" service where only one data set is transferred from one megaserver to another. That of course would require a heavy investment and likely result in the transferred account losing some or all character names due to conflicts. But if they could get that to work smoothly, then they could possibly start to consider making a way to merge megaservers in the future.

Of course, this is implying that there would be no legalese as well. We know that PC and XBox servers would play nice since they both are under Microsoft, but I'm sure Sony's lawyers would not be happy about a way for people to stop playing on a Sony console and start playing on a competitor's system...

But Rich said it's not "impossible" and they are looking into it. It's not high on their priority list yes but it's not an absolute NO, so no it's not Impossible, just probably too complex and will require a lot of work to be done with a lot of debugging like that PTS chars leaked to PCNA.

https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/eso-creative-director-says-his-answer-to-crossplay-has-changed-2483443/

Bokila wrote: »

Since all platforms received new servers, are there any intentions to implement any kind of crossplay/crosssave feature in the game? I know this has been brought alot and mainly the reason why it was not possible was "that is not how the servers are structured". Well, now that we have new servers across all platforms, will it be possible to implement any type of crossplay? Did they have that in mind when they added the new servers?
Eso EU Xbox PVP is dead for example and it would benefit from such a change, even if it would be done to PVP only since they are instanced based and i suppose it would be easier to be done.

EI Xbox PVP isnt dead. most of the weekend its been at least 2 bar and quite a lot 3 for AD/EP

its also 3 bar most evenings.

also, theyll never do x platform.

When warframe was implementing their cross-play, they did one very important distinction that I don't see anyone in this thread making, they separated cross-play and cross-save as two separate features.

Alot of issues I see people raising in here, sounds like assuming that cross-play requires cross-save to also be a thing.
Following by Warframe example... it is not a requirement. Warframe started doing cross-play before they have finished figuring cross-save, and even afterwards, they released cross-save in waves where you had to sign into it.

While obviously there are architectural differences between games there, implementing cross-play functionality, without cross-save, and with between-platform trading disabled, sounds like a possibility that could sidestep and preserve all of the economical differences between the platforms. The only requirement there would be to start sync the updates between platforms, so all the platforms in the cross-play actually play on he same version of the game at all times.

That being said as far as external observer can tell, it would appear that the infrastructure itself and game engines has a number of quirks that possibly would have higher priority being addressed by the engineers than any form of cross-play, so here is that.

It's been 24 hours. Has Zenimax implemented cross-play yet?

KekwLord3000 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

A lot of people keep arguing that ZOS isn't doing crossplay because of the economies or the addons or whatever. It's actually a lot simpler than that:

It's physically impossible with the current server architecture

ESO, unlike other MMOs, runs on a megaserver architecture. That means that any player on a megaserver will be able to play with any other character on a megaserver, but that also means that server transfers are not possible.

I'm sure if this was easy, ZOS would have done it by now. However, we know that they can only copy data from one server to a blank server like they did when the consoles first appeared. Even the PTS every cycle will wipe the data clear and copy a server over from scratch.

If ZOS were to add something like that, they'd need to essentially make a brand new "crossplay" megaserver and then copy and merge all of the data, which would require the creation of a new tool specifically to do so. That definitely would be rife with conflicts and bugs - see what happened with the PTS debacle from last year. It's not impossible to do so, but it would take a lot of work.

One of the first things they could do to help though would be to create a "server transfer" service where only one data set is transferred from one megaserver to another. That of course would require a heavy investment and likely result in the transferred account losing some or all character names due to conflicts. But if they could get that to work smoothly, then they could possibly start to consider making a way to merge megaservers in the future.

Of course, this is implying that there would be no legalese as well. We know that PC and XBox servers would play nice since they both are under Microsoft, but I'm sure Sony's lawyers would not be happy about a way for people to stop playing on a Sony console and start playing on a competitor's system...

But Rich said it's not "impossible" and they are looking into it. It's not high on their priority list yes but it's not an absolute NO, so no it's not Impossible, just probably too complex and will require a lot of work to be done with a lot of debugging like that PTS chars leaked to PCNA.

https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/eso-creative-director-says-his-answer-to-crossplay-has-changed-2483443/

As a full-stack software engineer of 30 years, I can confirm pecheckler gets it. It's software. Anything is possible given enough time and money, and since time *is* money, you could rephrase it as "anything is possible given enough money squared." But that's what's missing in all of this discussion. Money.

I don't give a crap about the name collisions. That's the "big" concern that always comes up. Who cares? Only the people impacted. The relative few that collide can haggle amongst themselves. If I got an email saying I need to edit my name to re-enable my account in a new cross-play server, I'd do so immediately and without complaint. That would be well-worth the tradeoff.

I also don't give a crap about people's speculations on Sony's this, that, or the other. I get so tired of everyone crapping on Sony, when I've been mad at Microsoft for 30 years now. We can all imagine any company's legal concerns all day long, but pretending that Sony is standing in the way of cross-play is just plain stupid. Again, it comes down to money. If there's enough money involved, Sony would play along, *just like any other company.*

The real question is whether the game would make enough money to recoup the investment to make the game cross-play. Do you think enough *new* people would start playing the game *because of cross-play*, within some reasonable payback schedule to offset the development costs (and palm-greasing), such that ZOS starts making enough *extra* money to justify it? It's a direct, calculated decision, based on a company's own time-value of money, using facts and figures none of us here on this forum have access to.

Does anyone asking for cross play imagine that it would improve player count by 10%? 20%? 50%? 100%!? I mean, what's the expectation? My feeling is that the player counts are much more about the game itself rather than cross play, and I don't think there'd be much of a bump. For what I think most of us understand would be an *enormous* investment and tear up, I don't think anyone could make a compelling *financial* argument for it.

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Bokila wrote: »

I gave up guys. I got an xbox.
Main reason is im travelling alot lately and i needed a travel friendly gaming machine. Might build a mini itx when they decide to make it crossplay so i guess within the next 10 years or so.
I just hope i can adapt my eyes back to 60fps..

... have you considered a gaming laptop?

I would have if i could transfer all my items to pc. I havent invested an euro into my pc account and i refuse to do so. Getting an xbox just to get back to my goodies. Not buying anything else either till they make it crossplay.

If they're not working on a brand new ESO 2 game then they should have a team working on porting ESO to a new engine with newer graphics and that can support Crossplay.

A lot of "its impossible" comments really need to learn that there really no reason things like cross platform cannot be done.

Data is data, it doesn't care what runs it, and it can be moved from system to system. The Oblivion remake run what is functionally the old code in UE5 rendering software and there would have been people claiming such a thing was "impossible" 10 years ago.

If something is "impossible" in programming, you simply write new programming. It is always possible to convert old data to a new structure.. Its been done so many times before at this point there really is no excusing the "its impossible" excuse.

"all platforms received new servers" doesn't mean the servers are improved or remained the same. In many cases, company simply change the servers to reduce the cost on servers.
Don't expect too much.

FF14 has cross-play between Playstation and PC. I wish ESO had the same.

amiiegee wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Of course it can be done. Not impossible at all.

That being said, just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done. I for one am against crossplay. Siimply because in every instance of crossplay that I've seen, Consoles always get the short end of the stick. That's why many games that now support crossplay also ensure that there's a Consoles Only capability.

PC gear simplyi cannot be regulated, whereas Consoles equipment is heavily regulated. This gives PC users a huge advantage due to the opportunity for cheating, and 9 times out of, well.. 9, that's exactly what happens. Console users getting pummeled in every direction.

Not to mention the impact it would have on Console server ecosystems. PSNA has a much better economical ecosystem than PC servers. Go crossplay and console server ecosystems get wrecked, because the PC ecosystem has exponentially more gold floating around, and as a result console players will see their gold value flush down the drain. Not to mention that you'd then see the number of Guilds triple, yet the number of Trader Kiosks remains the same. Not a single console guild will be able to outbid the PC guilds resulting in the PC guilds having instant control over every trader, leaving consoles out in the cold. I for one would hate to see the guilds I'm a part of get ground into the turf as a result.

Crossplay just should not be done when only one group reaps a recognizes an overall improvement while the other groups recognize a defecit. Crossplay should only be considered when it's good for everybody.

Though I wouldn't be opposed to an Xbox/PS crossplay.

I can’t help but giggle when people bring up “the economy.” Most of the folks sitting on mountains of gold got it from flipping in-game items, not from buying crowns anyway.

It’s just… weird. Oh no, the economy! Meanwhile, most stuff is ridiculously overpriced. Honestly, I care way more about the game’s long-term health and the community than someone losing out on a few extra gold coins. That’s a them problem.

<snipped for brevity>

Which is why I very intentionally chose to use the term Economic Ecosystem instead of a blanket economy. And for all your derision at the concept, it does actually apply in this instance. If you really believe everything is overpriced and should come down, guess what... it's the Console servers that have a much healthier buyers market than the PC servers. Crossplay would result in the PC market infecting the Console market.

So you can giggle all you want if you're in favor of Crossplay, all the while everything you dislike about the supposed "economy" brings everything you deem as "the problem" to the subset of players who thankfully aren't yet hit by it.

Draconerus wrote: »

Crossplay would re-vitalize the game and help fix the player base issues. I know several people personally who played on console but quit and would play again with me if they could use their characters.

But would the extra people that crossplay might bring in (or back) be enough to offset the ENORMOUS investment of money it would take to enable it? I don't think anyone would seriously say yes.

At the end of the day, it's a very simple question, and it's one that that ZOS has answered, consistently, for 11 years: no. They've answered it by NOT doing it, despite thread after thread after thread begging for it.