Get rid of Rushing Agony from PvP right NOW please

xFocused · February 16

Iriidius wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

It is entirely possible to virtually never get pulled by Rush of Agony, you just have to learn the counterplay.
It can only be blocked, if you try to dodge, you will be pulled anyway.

There will be a gap closer on your position.
You now have 800 ms to block and get away from the Fear that is certain to follow. You absolutely can do this consistently.
If you don't block, you will be pulled into the bomb, if you don't move, you'll be feared. If you're pulled or feared you will die.
Both of these are avoidable.

When an organized group is running at you, you should know this is coming, be prepared to block the chains at a moments notice. A ballgroup isn't exactly a subtle telegraph.

If you die to Rush of Agony, it is because you made an avoidable mistake.
You died to lack of situational awareness (not paying attention to someone gap closing onto your position ahead of a group; stacking right on top of a bunch of other people), or a build issue (lacking self heals/damage shields/major evasion).

Now if the set should, or should not, apply it's own CC immunity is a separate issue, but the degree to which RoA gets blamed for issues that are actually caused by a lack of understanding of gameplay mechanics is unwarranted.

There are several flops on this. The set is primarily used in group bombing. The counterplay if you can even see the animation in the first place is to block it....... When a ball zerg ult dumps what is going to happen if you block? You will be hit with a cc that goes through block. So either you dont block and get pulled and stunned or you do block and get killed anyways.

The only counterplay is to either do not be in the 15m gap + 12m aoe area in the first place or use an immovable pot and sprint away. Keep in mind in 8s you will have to do this again or have made it 27m away in that time. If you do not have an immov pot the only other option is to hopefully be on a flat asset surface and do a sprint bunny hop away while blocking....which is not easy to do in 800ms for 99% of the playerbase.
Telegraph: what are good examples? Probably meteor or DC are the best examples for telegraphed nukes. Although now zos made valkyn, an inconsequential proc set, have the same animation as a nuke ultimate...... cmon design 101. The chains could be more pronounced or make the chains sound effect at the beginning of the proc. This is a greater design issue with the game where zos ran rampant with dlc proc sets and now there are 10000000 little animations that overlap and hide each other. There was no design control on releases for this stuff and now it has drastically hurt combat.

Timing: Is 800ms or 1gcd good enough? IMO it is close, but DC is 1s and meteor is about 2s. Somewhere inbetween is the sweetspot. I believe 1.2s is probably more ideal. This is at least 4-5 average human reactions which has always been somewhat fair for both sides in previous counterplay mechanics.

CC wise: the pull should apply a stun, meaning that if I get pulled I will be stuck crouched over upon landing. This also means at any point in the pull I can cc break and walk away.

Damage wise: the damage should be instantly applied to the defending party upon landing at the target location. Honestly an aoe pull is already strong enough that it doesn't need another 5 piece proc on top of itself. The current 2s delay damage was intended to offset the tooltip value..... which then didnt work because players would instinctively be panicked to escape and never get hit.....thus zos trying to solve a problem they just created in a roundabout way made the pull not apply cc immunity. So not only can you get your cake, but you get to eat it too.

Cooldown: seriously, 8s......cmon its a bomb set. At best most people only get dawnbreaker every 20s. Even acuity wardens built for ult gen have to wait 30s. Why give ball groups the most over powered tool every 8s? If this set was "designed to counter groups" like the dev note said, why is it set on a cooldown that is vastly unnecessary for solo and small teams, but enables ball group abuse?
IDK it just clearly fails on all 5 major components of its design.

How does rush matter at all in your argument? If you stand in the path of a ball group and get hit by a hard CC while they were ult dumping you were going to die anyway.

Most of the players would not have stood in the path of the ballgroup without getting pulled by rush of agony into it or speed reduction from blocking it.

This. Most players when they see a ball group they definitely try to avoid it, the problem with Rush is that the visual proc is so delayed that it’s hard to counter unlike Dark Con so you have no idea which direction to go because you have no idea which direction you’ll be pulled from, Rush is also stackable with such a small cooldown that even if you manage to block the first pull 2 more players are going to yank you back into the damage

necro_the_crafter · February 16

I suggest to everybody that still cares, to stack as much RoA-blades as you possibly can for the monday's test.
Also would be nice for everyone to run as much multi-target hot's as you can fit on your bars.
And also to wear snow traders + 3 swift jewelry.

Tonturri · February 16

Poking back in to complain more, since I've done 3 BGs this morning (all losses, all rather close, why is the daily BG reward designed like this...) and encountered rushing agony more. Every part of this set seems to break established rules somehow. A ridiculously low cooldown, a high damage proc, a CC that doesn't apply immunity so the target can be CC'd again immediately after, and a very difficult to see visual effect. And we know ZOS has an idea of proper limitations for these effects, since other sets exist with higher cooldowns, lower damage, soft CC instead of pulls, etc.

It's like a combination of everything everyone has hated for years combined into one set. At least sets like dark convergence have a very high cooldown that makes them less useful in 1v1 and smaller scale play alongside a more noticeable visual.

CatoUnchained · February 16

Cyrodiil has never been so toxic as it's been since RoA was introduced. It's absolutely baffling how a set with these traits made it past the dev team, and even more baffling that the set is still in the game unchanged given how many complaints with evidence have been submitted and discussed for so long. We know ZOS has seen the commentary. Why haven't they made any effort to fix their blunder?

sans-culottes · February 16

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Cyrodiil has never been so toxic as it's been since RoA was introduced. It's absolutely baffling how a set with these traits made it past the dev team, and even more baffling that the set is still in the game unchanged given how many complaints with evidence have been submitted and discussed for so long. We know ZOS has seen the commentary. Why haven't they made any effort to fix their blunder?

If ZOS’s response to Sacrificial Bones/Grave Lord’s Sacrifice’s overwhelmingly negative reception is any indication, then they will unfortunately ignore player feedback. This shouldn’t have made it past the idea phase.

CatoUnchained · February 16

sans-culottes wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Cyrodiil has never been so toxic as it's been since RoA was introduced. It's absolutely baffling how a set with these traits made it past the dev team, and even more baffling that the set is still in the game unchanged given how many complaints with evidence have been submitted and discussed for so long. We know ZOS has seen the commentary. Why haven't they made any effort to fix their blunder?

If ZOS’s response to the Sacrificial Bones/Grave Lord’a Sacrifice’s overwhelmingly negative reception, then they will unfortunately ignore player feedback. This shouldn’t have made it past the idea phase.

*cough* jabs animation

xFocused · February 16

sans-culottes wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Cyrodiil has never been so toxic as it's been since RoA was introduced. It's absolutely baffling how a set with these traits made it past the dev team, and even more baffling that the set is still in the game unchanged given how many complaints with evidence have been submitted and discussed for so long. We know ZOS has seen the commentary. Why haven't they made any effort to fix their blunder?

If ZOS’s response to the Sacrificial Bones/Grave Lord’a Sacrifice’s overwhelmingly negative reception, then they will unfortunately ignore player feedback. This shouldn’t have made it past the idea phase.

I'm still a Necro main in Cyro but I'd be lying if I said it's not depressing to try and make a Necro viable in the current meta, lol. I miss my Harmony bombs

Genfe · February 17

Remember that time we were told we could get better development communication

xylena_lazarow · February 17

Genfe wrote: »

Remember that time we were told we could get better development communication

I'm not feeling very inspired to help test Vengeance, to say the least. Rushing Agony still plagues Battlegrounds regardless of what they're doing with the Cyro ruleset.

necro_the_crafter · February 17

xFocused wrote: »

I'm still a Necro main in Cyro but I'd be lying if I said it's not depressing to try and make a Necro viable in the current meta, lol. I miss my Harmony bombs

A bit offtopic but I suggest you try corpsebuster.
Im using it on the frontbar with dualwield.
Generally you want to cast blightbones into thrive in caos into dazing soul (scribed stun), and then pop your blastbones with detonating siphon or you can place avid on top and countinue combo chain with self-synergy, only I found it a bit more tricky to pop a corpse with boneyard, since our blighted buddy sometimes goes for a stroll, and with det. siphon its easier to pop, since det siphon will become active only after our skeleton reaches its target.

Also after each rebuff, when you have up to 3 corpses lying around you can do triple-pop with detonating dealing massive AoE burst, but that works only against over-agressive players.

ketsparrowhawk · February 17

Just needs to follow the cc rules like everything else. It would still be a widely used set but not broken

TechMaybeHic · February 17

All it takes is running into countless groups running this set and friends drop, and they really have been the last reason for me to login, so there's no point me logging in, waiting in queue, to then have it cut short by all the issues this set causes when run in mass; so I don't. I'm sure this is the case with a lot of players.

xFocused · February 18

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

xFocused wrote: »

I'm still a Necro main in Cyro but I'd be lying if I said it's not depressing to try and make a Necro viable in the current meta, lol. I miss my Harmony bombs

A bit offtopic but I suggest you try corpsebuster.
Im using it on the frontbar with dualwield.
Generally you want to cast blightbones into thrive in caos into dazing soul (scribed stun), and then pop your blastbones with detonating siphon or you can place avid on top and countinue combo chain with self-synergy, only I found it a bit more tricky to pop a corpse with boneyard, since our blighted buddy sometimes goes for a stroll, and with det. siphon its easier to pop, since det siphon will become active only after our skeleton reaches its target.

Also after each rebuff, when you have up to 3 corpses lying around you can do triple-pop with detonating dealing massive AoE burst, but that works only against over-agressive players.

Thanks, I’ll have to give this a look.

StaticWave · February 19

Stole this clip from @Alchimiste1 showcasing how RoA can be abused with Shadow Image to extend the pull range well beyond 12 meters and through terrain. It can even force your character to receive damage from the RoA proc because you're unable to move while being pulled such a long distance.

https://youtu.be/7yjh1b6qZe0

Can you imagine a ball group doing this? Have 1 NB pull EVERYONE into your group far away from the actual battle to be ult bombed.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler you need to tell the Dev team to fix this right now. This is beyond ridiculous.

Major_Mangle · February 19

StaticWave wrote: »

Stole this clip from @Alchimiste1 showcasing how RoA can be abused with Shadow Image to extend the pull range well beyond 12 meters and through terrain. It can even force your character to receive damage from the RoA proc because you're unable to move while being pulled such a long distance.

https://youtu.be/7yjh1b6qZe0

Can you imagine a ball group doing this? Have 1 NB pull EVERYONE into your group far away from the actual battle to be ult bombed.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler you need to tell the Dev team to fix this right now. This is beyond ridiculous.

Gina responded in the other thread about this. Apparently they're looking at a "potential fix", but that it's not something you'll get banned for doing. I honestly hope people abuse this during the upcoming midyear so we once and for all can get rid of pull sets in PvP. The more "carry tools" (like RoA, snowthreaders, crosshielding etc) we can get balanced the better. Sad part is that the only way to get changes these days is to go to silly lenghts to make everyones PvP experience miserable before zos might act.

MincMincMinc · February 19

Doesn't the fact that we have made it to page 8 of a nerf thread without zos intervention signify how united people are on this issue? Even the people that have defended the set don't even commit to defending it, because they know it is designed so poorly.

Duhne · February 19

Why, why, why this set is still there ?

How can ZOS play deaf this long ! I can't imagine any reasonable explanation.

Genfe · February 19

Duhne wrote: »

Why, why, why this set is still there ?

How can ZOS play deaf this long ! I can't imagine any reasonable explanation.

It’s their great communication they promised every year

xFocused · February 19

Major_Mangle wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Stole this clip from @Alchimiste1 showcasing how RoA can be abused with Shadow Image to extend the pull range well beyond 12 meters and through terrain. It can even force your character to receive damage from the RoA proc because you're unable to move while being pulled such a long distance.

https://youtu.be/7yjh1b6qZe0

Can you imagine a ball group doing this? Have 1 NB pull EVERYONE into your group far away from the actual battle to be ult bombed.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler you need to tell the Dev team to fix this right now. This is beyond ridiculous.

Gina responded in the other thread about this. Apparently they're looking at a "potential fix", but that it's not something you'll get banned for doing. I honestly hope people abuse this during the upcoming midyear so we once and for all can get rid of pull sets in PvP. The more "carry tools" (like RoA, snowthreaders, crosshielding etc) we can get balanced the better. Sad part is that the only way to get changes these days is to go to silly lenghts to make everyones PvP experience miserable before zos might act.

I’ll be honest, I have all day tomorrow free to play Midyear and while I’m looking forward to it, I’m also dreading it because I know the Rush spamming groups are going to be out in full force pretty much killing any kind of big scale battles that Midyear used to be

Iriidius · February 19

StaticWave wrote: »

Rush of Agony and Dark Convergence were designed to kill large groups, yet ironically are best used by organized large groups lol.

It says large groups, not ballgroup, which in the second sentence is revealed to mean zergs .
(large groups even when not grouped in group tool)

The problem with killing a ballgroup is not to get them stacked(so you can hit all at once) which they already are but to get enaugh dmg to reduce the hp of the ones you hit to 0 with all their defenses after destroying their shields before they can get healed up by 12 echoing vigor and 6 healer/support. Rush of agony is definitely not what players wanting to kill ballgroups asked for and not even worth using.
Better to use a dmg set like (mechanical acuity) or even go single target(to avoid 36%mitigation from major+minor evasion and cp star) to kill at least the one(s) you hit.

This set was designed for ballgroups(or bombers) to bomb(punish for stacking) players that are not stacked and is not a failed ballgroupcounter more effectively used by ballgroups like ballgroups like to claim.

Iriidius · February 19

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

What’s funny to me personally is seasoned 1vXers and small scalers in this thread like @MincMincMinc and @Alchimiste1 are being called “lacking situational awareness” because they think RoA is broken. Keep in mind, these guys are SEASONED and have A LOT more awareness than your average player and also deal with RoA A LOT more. If RoA is that problematic for seasoned players to deal with, then I can’t imagine your average player being yanked around into a full group bomb, not knowing how they died.

No offense intended, but there's a serious undercurrent of "anything that kills me is broken and should be nerfed" and "I should be table to solo tank any group" from the 1vX crowd. So pardon me if I think those category of complaints about RoA are more than a little bad-faith. It's the exact same category of illigitimate complaint as those made about Azureblight.

Dying to RoA is very much an issue with situational awareness, just like Azureblight.

For the record, I was also vocally against the Azureblight nerf as well.

Incredible how you want to trivialize rush of agony as undercurrent of "anything that kills me is broken and should be nerfed" like some random set killing a random player when it is the most broken and hated set in the entire game that almost everyone not abusing it wants to get nerfed.
These complains must be illegitime and bad faith as nobody can really consider a set op that is responsible only for majority of organized group kills(also kills on the one complaining).

Nobody here thinks nor says "I should be table to solo tank any group" even from the 1vX crowd, we are too far away from that too even think about that when the whole faction is often not enaugh to kill a ballgroup and skilled 1vXers having to zerg to counter ballgroup get snacked inbetween (despite active defense). Static only mentioned them because by you they „

StaticWave wrote: »

are being called “lacking situational awareness” because they think RoA is broken

“ when 1vXer need very much situational awareness to 1vX.

xFocused · February 19

Iriidius wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

What’s funny to me personally is seasoned 1vXers and small scalers in this thread like @MincMincMinc and @Alchimiste1 are being called “lacking situational awareness” because they think RoA is broken. Keep in mind, these guys are SEASONED and have A LOT more awareness than your average player and also deal with RoA A LOT more. If RoA is that problematic for seasoned players to deal with, then I can’t imagine your average player being yanked around into a full group bomb, not knowing how they died.

No offense intended, but there's a serious undercurrent of "anything that kills me is broken and should be nerfed" and "I should be table to solo tank any group" from the 1vX crowd. So pardon me if I think those category of complaints about RoA are more than a little bad-faith. It's the exact same category of illigitimate complaint as those made about Azureblight.

Dying to RoA is very much an issue with situational awareness, just like Azureblight.

For the record, I was also vocally against the Azureblight nerf as well.

Incredible how you want to trivialize rush of agony as undercurrent of "anything that kills me is broken and should be nerfed" like some random set killing a random player when it is the most broken and hated set in the entire game that almost everyone not abusing it wants to get nerfed.
These complains must be illegitime and bad faith as nobody can really consider a set op that is responsible only for majority of organized group kills(also kills on the one complaining).

Nobody here thinks nor says "I should be table to solo tank any group" even from the 1vX crowd, we are too far away from that too even think about that when the whole faction is often not enaugh to kill a ballgroup and skilled 1vXers having to zerg to counter ballgroup get snacked inbetween (despite active defense). Static only mentioned them because by you they „

StaticWave wrote: »

are being called “lacking situational awareness” because they think RoA is broken

“ when 1vXer need very much situational awareness to 1vX.

All of this. Solo players aren’t asking for Rush to be nerfed because they can’t kill a ball group solo, they want it nerfed because it is genuinely broken and way too overpowering. Read this thread through again and you’ll see what we’re talking about when we say you can’t tell which direction you’re going to get yanked from because there’s a delay on the proc animation, the set can be stacked so if you don’t get get yanked by the first pull from a BG then the other 2 people running it will he sure to yank you since apparently there’s no cooldown either not to mention NB’s can hit you with Rush while in cloak making it even more difficult to counter. While dark con might be annoying at least there’s a cooldown, you definitely can’t miss the visual proc on that set and it’s way easier to block and walk out of the aoe unlike rush

Just_Attivi · February 19

Pretty sure anyone who has interacted with the set in any meaningful capacity knows its overpowered, even more so after its 'nerf' (thanks ZOS, /s). People still defending it either:

A) Genuinely barely used it but think its cool (I agree, it is really cool! just way too OP)

Crutch on it but claim it isnt even that strong (you know who you are)
C) Are the ones abusing it to intentionally disrupt gameplay using exploits mentioned (and you know exactly what youre doing, dont lie, its very obviously not its intended behavior. Yes, I agree ball groups are disrupting gameplay too blah blah blah this conversation isnt about ball groups specifically, as much as a problematic set empowering them as well as people intentionally abusing the set. ... that said Gina has now stated you wont get banned for using this in shady ways, so... *sigh* How anyone at ZOS can see this and think "This is fine" is insane to me. Maybe theyre hoping this mayhem is extra offputting so that vengeance looks even more appealing, but my tinfoil hat is on pretty tight, and I know it.)

IMO easiest fixes:
1- Monsters only. Id hate this, as I think its a cool tool, and I like variety and diversity in builds, its just overperforming (and broken).
2- Longer cooldown (maybe match Dark convergence), apply CC immunity, improved telegraph. Chain pulls to location of initiating the chains, not to player.
3- Same cooldown, significantly less damage (or maybe even just apply a damaging status effect, like sunder or concussion) instead of straight damage) Apply CC immunity, improve telegraph. chain pulls to location of initiation, not player.

Seriously Apply CC immunity and improve the telegraph and 95% of people wouldnt entirely despise this set. you cant do anything while being pulled, much like a DK chain, which is in fact a CC, and applies CC immunity. getting yanked around by this set constantly causes so much desync and is beyond disorienting when youre getting pulled through tower walls or up stairs or through an entire corn field, at least give it the appropriate CC application like it should have. Making it pull to the point of initiating (like dark convergence)just helps avoid people getting pulled into walls and things (and I agree, skills that knock you into the air likely need to be addressed to so we can help mitigate people getting stuck in walls and such.) If the telegraph was improved (think of Tarnished Nightmares new telegraph, imagine that but big red chains (flashier than anyones cosmetics please) going to the affected players, people could better understand whats happening and have a chance at counterplay.

xFocused · February 20

First day of Midyear. The rush pull groups are pretty bad right now but that was expected. Even if you manage to block the first pull and walk out of it, you're instantly yanked back by 2 more rush pulls, lol

LadyGP · February 20

MincMincMinc wrote: »

This is why it seems the current combat team isnt talking with whatever team is making new sets.

Rushing fails on three fronts
There is no clear telegraph that you are about to be pulled. Why dont chains shoot out from the target and then pull after 1s. It should be a clear so enemies who get chained can react and block the chain.

When pulled it doesnt apply immunity which none of us should have to tell the combat team why this is a bad thing.

After those two get fixed we then have to ask the question why this set even does damage? You do the strongest effect in the game just to also do damage equivalent to an aoe burst skill that is a delayed timeable skill.

You can tell when you're about to get pulled and you have 2 seconds I believe to block it. There is a visual indicator that you're about to get pulled.

The problem is this set doesn't, IMO, work as the devs intended due to the clients/servers sometimes getting out of sync. That paired with the increased range (12m I think it got bumped up to..I could be wrong).. makes it a very big area that you can get pulled from.

Example, you passed through the area I clicked on to pull someone. On your screen you're past that spot, lets say X and are... 15m away (or some distance just making a point here). I land on X and the visual indicator goes off. Because of lag the 2 seconds is really like... 1s at best and because you've already passed through spot X and have your back to it you don't see the indicator. The server or your/my client think you're still within the 12m even though you're not so you get pulled in.

To your point about lack of cc immunity... I agree. When I was running in a ball group i would be the second puller (in case my lead choked on a pull). There were MANY times when he would pull and then I would pull just to the right/left of him and pull a whole second group into the bomb spot. Some of those people were ones that just got pulled by him.

I've been on the other side of this MANY times and it's such a pain in the butt. It's frustrating for sure. I don't think the set needs to be removed from cyro or the game as it adds an interesting dynamic to play styles but I do think it's not working as they intened and it's really hard to fix it due to it being a more of a networking issue.

This is just speculation on my part after using the set for... months and months and months in game.

xylena_lazarow · February 20

xFocused wrote: »

if you manage to block the first pull and walk out of it, you're instantly yanked back by 2 more rush pulls, lol

Where's the "just block bro" crowd to tell us how easy this is to counter?

xFocused · February 20

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

xFocused wrote: »

if you manage to block the first pull and walk out of it, you're instantly yanked back by 2 more rush pulls, lol

Where's the "just block bro" crowd to tell us how easy this is to counter?

Lol right, even most of our ZC was talking about how they were getting yanked all over the place, down stairs, off of walls, it’s a mess.

Avran_Sylt · February 20

Iriidius wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Rush of Agony and Dark Convergence were designed to kill large groups, yet ironically are best used by organized large groups lol.

StaticWave wrote: »

Rush of Agony and Dark Convergence were designed to kill large groups, yet ironically are best used by organized large groups lol.

It says large groups, not ballgroup, which in the second sentence is revealed to mean zergs .
(large groups even when not grouped in group tool)

The problem with killing a ballgroup is not to get them stacked(so you can hit all at once) which they already are but to get enaugh dmg to reduce the hp of the ones you hit to 0 with all their defenses after destroying their shields before they can get healed up by 12 echoing vigor and 6 healer/support. Rush of agony is definitely not what players wanting to kill ballgroups asked for and not even worth using.
Better to use a dmg set like (mechanical acuity) or even go single target(to avoid 36%mitigation from major+minor evasion and cp star) to kill at least the one(s) you hit.

This set was designed for ballgroups(or bombers) to bomb(punish for stacking) players that are not stacked and is not a failed ballgroupcounter more effectively used by ballgroups like ballgroups like to claim.

I really don't get this take.

VD/RoA/DC aren't meant to kill zergs, they're meant to kill bad/undergeared players.

Basically sets to punch down on the underdog, because it requires a chain reaction from a kill happening in the first place, which are typically scrubs.

It's more or less a streamers set: take advantage of those you don't play as much as you/aren't as good as you, and leverage that to kill even more people.

lol, not only is that scrub a bad player, but they're actively throwing by participating and killing their team as a result.

xylena_lazarow · February 20

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Basically sets to punch down on the underdog, because it requires a chain reaction from a kill happening in the first place, which are typically scrubs.

"lol, not only is that scrub a bad player, but they're actively throwing by participating and killing their team as a result."

This is a good summary of how Rushing Agony drives away new and casual players. They're punished just for trying to participate at all, and then mocked for not knowing or executing esoteric metagame counterplay. No wonder players don't bother coming back, who would want to when that's their first impression of this PvP?

TechMaybeHic · February 20

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Rush of Agony and Dark Convergence were designed to kill large groups, yet ironically are best used by organized large groups lol.

StaticWave wrote: »

Rush of Agony and Dark Convergence were designed to kill large groups, yet ironically are best used by organized large groups lol.

It says large groups, not ballgroup, which in the second sentence is revealed to mean zergs .
(large groups even when not grouped in group tool)

The problem with killing a ballgroup is not to get them stacked(so you can hit all at once) which they already are but to get enaugh dmg to reduce the hp of the ones you hit to 0 with all their defenses after destroying their shields before they can get healed up by 12 echoing vigor and 6 healer/support. Rush of agony is definitely not what players wanting to kill ballgroups asked for and not even worth using.
Better to use a dmg set like (mechanical acuity) or even go single target(to avoid 36%mitigation from major+minor evasion and cp star) to kill at least the one(s) you hit.

This set was designed for ballgroups(or bombers) to bomb(punish for stacking) players that are not stacked and is not a failed ballgroupcounter more effectively used by ballgroups like ballgroups like to claim.

I really don't get this take.

VD/RoA/DC aren't meant to kill zergs, they're meant to kill bad/undergeared players.

Basically sets to punch down on the underdog, because it requires a chain reaction from a kill happening in the first place, which are typically scrubs.

It's more or less a streamers set: take advantage of those you don't play as much as you/aren't as good as you, and leverage that to kill even more people.

lol, not only is that scrub a bad player, but they're actively throwing by participating and killing their team as a result.

Those sets do tend to punish newer and more casuals directly. But it also makes it to where experienced groups don't want to pick up new PvPers as much. The ones that do, risk getting their entire group blown up in stead of just having to rez the weaker links all the time.

I get tge reasoning and desire to break up zergs; but the cost of a higher entry point is too much