Get rid of Rushing Agony from PvP right NOW please

StaticWave · February 12

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Look at this clip for example:

https://youtu.be/9fdzoRCqowk

That NB literally APPEARED OUT OF THIN AIR. I never saw it coming because there was no visible animation of a gap closer from him so nobody would have expected him to be using RoA. At first I thought he was just gonna Incap the teammate behind me so I didn’t hold block, but a short moment later RoA procced and pulled me into a Soul Tether burst and I died from the Vicious Death proc (the other teammate died proccing it).

Not only that, the chain animation from RoA was way too quick and not visible enough for me to have noticed it, especially during that fight when I was focusing on the dude in the corner. It's not like DC or Meteor where there's a huge circle on the ground or under your feet and the delay timer ticks while the animation plays out. With RoA, the delay timer ticks FIRST, then the animation plays out. This basically means by the time you do notice the chains shooting towards you, it’s already too late to block. Most of the time you don’t even know whether the opponent has RoA or not either lol. Even if you assumed he did have RoA, then he could just as easily hide his Ambush animation by Cloaking and appear out of thin air like in the video lol.

That clip isn't quite as compelling as you think, yes you got pulled but you're tunnelvisioning on a single low health opponent while fighting near an ally that doesn't seem to know how to heal themself or properly react to a NB (before the pull at all). If that teammate had reacted properly to being gap closed to and having their health chunked (way more than it should've been if they were built or buffed properly) then they wouldn't have died and they wouldn't have killed you. Yes RoA pulled you into the VD, but any other pull would've done the same, it isn't a RoA issue. Poor positioning, tunnel vision, and a poor ally VDing you is what cased this, not RoA. Mistkes were made, no one should have died in this clip.

Edit: also you absolutely can see the NB appear at the end of their gap closer right at the bottom of the frame (right before you charge your camera headfirst into a wall)

Fine, I'll show an extended clip of that fight:

https://youtu.be/27s0IjTXxJA

- I had already scanned the area before attacking. You can even see the RoA NB dead on the ground (because we killed him). Nobody was posing any threat to me within the vicinity
- That NB revived and Ambushed from the base. The Ambush animation was so fast and instant, it might as well have been an attack from stealth.
- I don't control how my teammates play, only myself, especially in a casual BG match with PvErs. Heck, even Cyrodiil is full of casual players like this. That is why I don't follow the zerg closely.

Here's another clip of my POV watching him bomb 2 people:

https://youtu.be/IHdoKXQ0yUg

Zero visible animation from an outsider PoV. All I saw was 2 people getting pulled into that NB.

RoA not giving any proper animation while the timer is ticking is problematic. I've used RoA in groups before, and I know exactly how broken it is, so don't tell me that it's a skill issue lol. Your entire post is shifting the blame towards me and my teammate, while ignoring the issues with RoA. This is clearly a biased opinion on your part and I'm not surprised if you are either a ball group player or are using the set and don't want it nerfed.

I remember being one of the few people testing Ward DAY ONE on PTS. After creating the Ward nerf thread, so many people on the forums said I was overreacting and that it's a skill issue on my part. People were telling me to "build more damage", or "learn how to fight a Sorc", or "block their attacks", or "use oblivion damage", or whatever reasons they thought could convince others that Ward was fine. Look what happens now. Everybody is complaining about Ward and Sorc being OP. You don't think I haven't tried doing all of that stuff on PTS to counter Ward lol? It didn't take nearly a year for me to realize that. It took 1 hour of DAY ONE PTS testing to see why Ward was problematic.

Like @Alchimiste1 said, when you're experienced enough with the game, you just know when something is clearly overperforming. RoA is one of those things.

acastanza_ESO · February 12

StaticWave wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Look at this clip for example:

https://youtu.be/9fdzoRCqowk

That NB literally APPEARED OUT OF THIN AIR. I never saw it coming because there was no visible animation of a gap closer from him so nobody would have expected him to be using RoA. At first I thought he was just gonna Incap the teammate behind me so I didn’t hold block, but a short moment later RoA procced and pulled me into a Soul Tether burst and I died from the Vicious Death proc (the other teammate died proccing it).

Not only that, the chain animation from RoA was way too quick and not visible enough for me to have noticed it, especially during that fight when I was focusing on the dude in the corner. It's not like DC or Meteor where there's a huge circle on the ground or under your feet and the delay timer ticks while the animation plays out. With RoA, the delay timer ticks FIRST, then the animation plays out. This basically means by the time you do notice the chains shooting towards you, it’s already too late to block. Most of the time you don’t even know whether the opponent has RoA or not either lol. Even if you assumed he did have RoA, then he could just as easily hide his Ambush animation by Cloaking and appear out of thin air like in the video lol.

That clip isn't quite as compelling as you think, yes you got pulled but you're tunnelvisioning on a single low health opponent while fighting near an ally that doesn't seem to know how to heal themself or properly react to a NB (before the pull at all). If that teammate had reacted properly to being gap closed to and having their health chunked (way more than it should've been if they were built or buffed properly) then they wouldn't have died and they wouldn't have killed you. Yes RoA pulled you into the VD, but any other pull would've done the same, it isn't a RoA issue. Poor positioning, tunnel vision, and a poor ally VDing you is what cased this, not RoA. Mistkes were made, no one should have died in this clip.

Edit: also you absolutely can see the NB appear at the end of their gap closer right at the bottom of the frame (right before you charge your camera headfirst into a wall)

Fine, I'll show an extended clip of that fight:

https://youtu.be/27s0IjTXxJA

- I had already scanned the area before attacking. You can even see the RoA NB dead on the ground (because we killed him). Nobody was posing any threat to me within the vicinity
- That NB revived and Ambushed from the base. The Ambush animation was so fast and instant, it might as well have been an attack from stealth.
- I don't control how my teammates play, only myself, especially in a casual BG match with PvErs. Heck, even Cyrodiil is full of casual players like this. That is why I don't follow the zerg closely.

Here's another clip of my POV watching him bomb 2 people:

https://youtu.be/IHdoKXQ0yUg

Zero visible animation from an outsider PoV. All I saw was 2 people getting pulled into that NB.

RoA not giving any proper animation while the timer is ticking is problematic. I've used RoA in groups before, and I know exactly how broken it is, so don't tell me that it's a skill issue lol. Your entire post is shifting the blame towards me and my teammate, while ignoring the issues with RoA. This is clearly a biased opinion on your part and I'm not surprised if you are either a ball group player or are using the set and don't want it nerfed.

I remember being one of the few people testing Ward DAY ONE on PTS. After creating the Ward nerf thread, so many people on the forums said I was overreacting and that it's a skill issue on my part. People were telling me to "build more damage", or "learn how to fight a Sorc", or "block their attacks", or "use oblivion damage", or whatever reasons they thought could convince others that Ward was fine. Look what happens now. Everybody is complaining about Ward and Sorc being OP. You don't think I haven't tried doing all of that stuff on PTS to counter Ward lol? It didn't take nearly a year for me to realize that. It took 1 hour of DAY ONE PTS testing to see why Ward was problematic.

Like @Alchimiste1 said, when you're experienced enough with the game, you just know when something is clearly overperforming. RoA is one of those things.

So you're saying you both knew there was a bomber nightblade around and knew you were fighting by that enemies spawn while you knew he was waiting to revive and you took zero precautions.... Uh... okay then.

And cool story about Ward, wrong thread?

YandereGirlfriend · February 12

Joy_Division wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The only undercurrent and bad faith I see are people making excuses for a set that plays the game for them.

Had this argument with one of the comp group guys in zone chat. He did acknowledge that his group doesn't need Rushing Agony, but he thinks that players "should" have developed enough skill to counter it.

So I told him that pugs find it unfun and it makes them quit PvP, and asked who he's gonna farm when all the pugs are gone. Doors? NPCs? Seeing as how we were in zone chat because the server was empty and no PvP was going on...

Argument over, we agreeably moved to new topics. Might as well chat until when/if players log on.

Most pugs just want to low-effort Xv1 and win with numbers. Which is not a playstyle that we should be overly concerned with catering to.

There are some pretty reasonable takes in this thread but also a fair bit of ill-informed histrionics.

The broadly satisfactory middle ground for this is likely something on the order of:

1. Greatly improve visual/audio telegraph
2. Fix LOS/height behavior (though this is likely just a symptom of positional desync and overall bad game performance)
3. Strip the damage proc

And then simply clone the Dark Convergence mechanic of:

If successfully blocked -> pull does nothing
Else -> pull and automatically stun (which then invokes traditional CC immunity -> meaning no repeat pulls from multiple wearers)

Viola.

The set now has better counterplay opportunity, deals zero damage, and no longer allows the annoying behavior of repeated "ping-pong" pulls (as well as being pulled from ledges, corners, etc.) from multiple wearers. It also preserves a clearly differentiated use case vs. Dark Convergence, where each set has distinct relative strengths and weaknesses. And is much more balanced vs. other potential options like Void Bash and the Scribing pull.

This isn't a middle ground. It is maintaining the worst part of the set (not granting CC immunity), which happens to be what enables the very low effort ball group pug farming you say the game shoild not cater to.

Except that it is. You're advocating for an extremist position.

If the set has an even more obvious visual/audio cue, like Dark Convergence does, then it becomes strictly a skill issue if you are affected by the set. Just like how getting stacked by DC in the year 2025 is strictly a skill issue. Nobody but the puggiest of pugs complains about Dark Convergence and the change that I proposed in literally taken directly from it.

StaticWave · February 12

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Look at this clip for example:

https://youtu.be/9fdzoRCqowk

That NB literally APPEARED OUT OF THIN AIR. I never saw it coming because there was no visible animation of a gap closer from him so nobody would have expected him to be using RoA. At first I thought he was just gonna Incap the teammate behind me so I didn’t hold block, but a short moment later RoA procced and pulled me into a Soul Tether burst and I died from the Vicious Death proc (the other teammate died proccing it).

Not only that, the chain animation from RoA was way too quick and not visible enough for me to have noticed it, especially during that fight when I was focusing on the dude in the corner. It's not like DC or Meteor where there's a huge circle on the ground or under your feet and the delay timer ticks while the animation plays out. With RoA, the delay timer ticks FIRST, then the animation plays out. This basically means by the time you do notice the chains shooting towards you, it’s already too late to block. Most of the time you don’t even know whether the opponent has RoA or not either lol. Even if you assumed he did have RoA, then he could just as easily hide his Ambush animation by Cloaking and appear out of thin air like in the video lol.

That clip isn't quite as compelling as you think, yes you got pulled but you're tunnelvisioning on a single low health opponent while fighting near an ally that doesn't seem to know how to heal themself or properly react to a NB (before the pull at all). If that teammate had reacted properly to being gap closed to and having their health chunked (way more than it should've been if they were built or buffed properly) then they wouldn't have died and they wouldn't have killed you. Yes RoA pulled you into the VD, but any other pull would've done the same, it isn't a RoA issue. Poor positioning, tunnel vision, and a poor ally VDing you is what cased this, not RoA. Mistkes were made, no one should have died in this clip.

Edit: also you absolutely can see the NB appear at the end of their gap closer right at the bottom of the frame (right before you charge your camera headfirst into a wall)

Fine, I'll show an extended clip of that fight:

https://youtu.be/27s0IjTXxJA

- I had already scanned the area before attacking. You can even see the RoA NB dead on the ground (because we killed him). Nobody was posing any threat to me within the vicinity
- That NB revived and Ambushed from the base. The Ambush animation was so fast and instant, it might as well have been an attack from stealth.
- I don't control how my teammates play, only myself, especially in a casual BG match with PvErs. Heck, even Cyrodiil is full of casual players like this. That is why I don't follow the zerg closely.

Here's another clip of my POV watching him bomb 2 people:

https://youtu.be/IHdoKXQ0yUg

Zero visible animation from an outsider PoV. All I saw was 2 people getting pulled into that NB.

RoA not giving any proper animation while the timer is ticking is problematic. I've used RoA in groups before, and I know exactly how broken it is, so don't tell me that it's a skill issue lol. Your entire post is shifting the blame towards me and my teammate, while ignoring the issues with RoA. This is clearly a biased opinion on your part and I'm not surprised if you are either a ball group player or are using the set and don't want it nerfed.

I remember being one of the few people testing Ward DAY ONE on PTS. After creating the Ward nerf thread, so many people on the forums said I was overreacting and that it's a skill issue on my part. People were telling me to "build more damage", or "learn how to fight a Sorc", or "block their attacks", or "use oblivion damage", or whatever reasons they thought could convince others that Ward was fine. Look what happens now. Everybody is complaining about Ward and Sorc being OP. You don't think I haven't tried doing all of that stuff on PTS to counter Ward lol? It didn't take nearly a year for me to realize that. It took 1 hour of DAY ONE PTS testing to see why Ward was problematic.

Like @Alchimiste1 said, when you're experienced enough with the game, you just know when something is clearly overperforming. RoA is one of those things.

So you're saying you both knew there was a bomber nightblade around and knew you were fighting by that enemies spawn while you knew he was waiting to revive and you took zero precautions.... Uh... okay then.

And cool story about Ward, wrong thread?

You are literally just nitpicking at this point. Everybody could have made an analogy that the NB respawning from base is equivalent to a NB running towards me in stealth, then ambushing with RoA. I would have had zero idea that he was there. RoA still does not have a clear animation and applies a timer before the animation starts. Instead of nitpicking, can you actually focus on the set being poorly designed for PvP?

xylena_lazarow · February 12

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

You're advocating for an extremist position.

Is this a bad translation or something? Disagree if you must, but I can't fathom how "pull procs should follow normal crowd control rules" constitutes any sort of extremism.

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

There used to be groups that tried to be ball groups and were not very good about positioning and coordination and could be wiped by decent groups of players who saw the choke point and would not fall for it.

That's called "balance" when bad groups wipe instead of being carried by proc set automation.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · February 12

@ZOS_Kevin

Is ZOS aware of the feedback around this set, has the team any plans to review the set and reconsider it's 'rule breaking' mechanics in PVP environments?

xFocused · February 12

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

Is ZOS aware of the feedback around this set, has the team any plans to review the set and reconsider it's 'rule breaking' mechanics in PVP environments?

It caught a rather small nerf that honestly didn’t solve anything a little while back so they probably assume it’s fine but other than that they’ve been pretty quiet on the issue.

Major_Mangle · February 12

xFocused wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

Is ZOS aware of the feedback around this set, has the team any plans to review the set and reconsider it's 'rule breaking' mechanics in PVP environments?

It caught a rather small nerf that honestly didn’t solve anything a little while back so they probably assume it’s fine but other than that they’ve been pretty quiet on the issue.

It honestly wasn't a nerf. The delay makes it much easier to setup for delayed burst compared to before and the increased radius for the set was a massive buff.

xFocused · February 12

Major_Mangle wrote: »

xFocused wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

Is ZOS aware of the feedback around this set, has the team any plans to review the set and reconsider it's 'rule breaking' mechanics in PVP environments?

It caught a rather small nerf that honestly didn’t solve anything a little while back so they probably assume it’s fine but other than that they’ve been pretty quiet on the issue.

It honestly wasn't a nerf. The delay makes it much easier to setup for delayed burst compared to before and the increased radius for the set was a massive buff.

Oh I agree, lol. I only worded it as a “nerf” since that’s what Zos considered it to be, it’s still incredibly broken and outperforming at the moment

DeadlySerious · February 12

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

Is ZOS aware of the feedback around this set, has the team any plans to review the set and reconsider it's 'rule breaking' mechanics in PVP environments?

Good question. As bad as this set is for PvP and as many have spoken out about it, it seems like we should hear from ZOS about this.

There have been some pretty significant balance breaking sets in PvP before, but nothing even comes close to as bad as RoA is. Free pull sets just shouldn't exist in the first place, let alone a set with a virtually invisible pull and that doesn't apply CC immunity. Everything about RoA is just bad. Add the "for monsters only" condition or get rid of the set. It's toxic.

MincMincMinc · February 12

Just remember that people used to be in uproar about proc sets that were just flat damage with a long cooldown

Now people are trying to justify a set that has a delayed timed burst damage aoe while also doing a near uncounterable cc which undermines the cc mechanics in the game on a short cooldown.

xFocused · February 12

I feel like if you’re going to put a pull set in the game it needs to have some sort of visual proc like dark con. I understand Rush has the chains but as others have stated here, half the time you either don’t see the chains or they are super delayed. There should be a longer cooldown on it as well like there is Dark con. Also, you can’t stack dark con as far as I know so how come you can stack rush?

Theignson · February 13

RoA is broken on so many levels.

Aside from the points made in this thread (No CC immunity, no visual indication at all that you are affected (I've tested this. The chain that attaches to you from this pull ONLY occurs after the delay and you cannot break free at that point), the incredible pull radius needs to be mentioned:

TWELVE METERS!!

Afaik NO other set or ability in the game has anywhere near this reach.
Whirling blades : 6M. Impulse: 6M. Ice comet 5M. Elemental Storm (an ULtimate!) : 8m Northern storm (An Ultimate!): 10M
RoA is not an ability, is not an ultimate, but a PROC, and it is an AoE pull that extends over 12M!

Really this set is a joke. Whoever designed this must have been laughing the whole time.

ZOS has ignored over 1000 posts about this. Someone important must really love this set.

necro_the_crafter · February 13

To ZoS and everyone defending this set:

new set - I WIN

1-4 piece bonus : doesn't matter
5 piece bonus : dealing damage with gap-closers or pull abilities places "I WIN" mark on targets in 12m area. After 5 sec delay enemy player character permanently deletes from their account unless they consume a food piece that have max stam and magicka recovery bonus on them, enter stealth, and then perform /danceorc.

Nice perfectly balanced set with clear counterplay, add it next patch.

Alchimiste1 · February 13

@ZOS_BrianWheeler despite a few outliers I think the general consensus on how the community feels about this set is evident.

Looking forward to seeing how you respond to the community feedback.

Genfe · February 13

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler despite a few outliers I think the generous consensus on how the community feels about this set is evident.

Looking forward to seeing how you respond to the community feedback.

He’s the one using the set. Good luck

JustLovely · February 13

Genfe wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler despite a few outliers I think the generous consensus on how the community feels about this set is evident.

Looking forward to seeing how you respond to the community feedback.

He’s the one using the set. Good luck

I don't think he's using the set. Go back and watch the PvP reveal stream they did with SypherPK. When Sypher asked what was pulling him around like crazy Mr. Wheeler did not have an answer. It was as if he didn't know. I suppose it's possible he didn't hear the question, but it looked like he did and just didn't know the answer. (it was RoA)

All in all I'd recommend anyone who enjoys PvP in ESO to watch that entire PvP reveal stream for BG's from a few months back at least a couple times. It's very enlightening. Pay close attention to what build Mr. Wheeler says he's running for the BG live stream. Those of us that have been keeping up on PvP builds were pretty surprised by that as well.

xFocused · February 13

JustLovely wrote: »

Genfe wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler despite a few outliers I think the generous consensus on how the community feels about this set is evident.

Looking forward to seeing how you respond to the community feedback.

He’s the one using the set. Good luck

I don't think he's using the set. Go back and watch the PvP reveal stream they did with SypherPK. When Sypher asked what was pulling him around like crazy Mr. Wheeler did not have an answer. It was as if he didn't know. I suppose it's possible he didn't hear the question, but it looked like he did and just didn't know the answer. (it was RoA)

All in all I'd recommend anyone who enjoys PvP in ESO to watch that entire PvP reveal stream for BG's from a few months back at least a couple times. It's very enlightening. Pay close attention to what build Mr. Wheeler says he's running for the BG live stream. Those of us that have been keeping up on PvP builds were pretty surprised by that as well.

The fact that Zos did a PvP reveal stream with a primary Fortnite player tells you all that you need to know about the current state of PvP, lmao.

xylena_lazarow · February 13

Genfe wrote: »

He’s the one using the set. Good luck

They probably originally intended for the set to make it easier for randoms to kill the organized stacked groups they complain about, but in practice it was the opposite, and for some reason we aren't being heard on this.

Zallion · February 14

ZOS, you’ve got such a quick win here by adjusting this set. A show of good faith and that you hear your community, restore some trust in your player base for once. The community has spoken up about this set being broken for a long time. The vast majority agree the set needs to be toned down or removed. The vocal minority are the same ball group players that abuse the set in the first place that make your game a miserable experience for the majority of players. There is overwhelming support to adjust this set and enough recommendations on this very thread most people would be happy with, or at the very least to have an attempt at balance with. Do ANYTHING, but don’t do nothing. You’ve stated you want feedback, show us you mean it.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · February 14

Zallion wrote: »

ZOS, you’ve got such a quick win here by adjusting this set. A show of good faith and that you hear your community, restore some trust in your player base for once. The community has spoken up about this set being broken for a long time. The vast majority agree the set needs to be toned down or removed. The vocal minority are the same ball group players that abuse the set in the first place that make your game a miserable experience for the majority of players. There is overwhelming support to adjust this set and enough recommendations on this very thread most people would be happy with, or at the very least to have an attempt at balance with. Do ANYTHING, but don’t do nothing. You’ve stated you want feedback, show us you mean it.

Over the years the thing which has been most frustrating is when the playerbase thinks it's communicated an issue by making such threads / talking about an issue in multiple places and then ZOS responds that its the first time they have heard about the issue a year later.

this is why a simple 'we've seen this and will consider it' helps in such cases @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno

Soraka · February 14

Some response would be great, even if it's an explanation of why they want it to stay.

silky_soft · February 15

I just got pulled through a pillar in a bg. I was already standing there even before the players came up the stairs. I was never at any stage inside thier field of view.

StaticWave · February 15

Remember when ZOS adjusted skills during live patches instead of waiting for PTS patches to change them?

How hard is it to change a couple values or add CC immunity to this set? We don’t need to wait another year..

xFocused · February 15

Finally logged into Cyro last night after taking a break and it’s just so unplayable for solos. Everywhere you look it’s BG’s or smaller comped groups and every single one of them are using Rush stacked, lol. It definitely feels like ZOS wants to kill the solo gameplay and just let organized groups be the main focus

xylena_lazarow · February 16

xFocused wrote: »

It definitely feels like ZOS wants to kill the solo gameplay and just let organized groups be the main focus

That's why Cyro died. Square peg into a round hole.

Zallion · February 16

The funny thing is, adjusting this set would likely improve performance. Ball groups needing to create actual choke point strats would mean less frequent ulti dumps, less calcs bursting in all in unison. Tackle heal and shield stacking next and you probably fixed half the problems with performance and balance in cyro without needing to rebuild it from the ground up and add cooldowns

xFocused · February 16

Zallion wrote: »

The funny thing is, adjusting this set would likely improve performance. Ball groups needing to create actual choke point strats would mean less frequent ulti dumps, less calcs bursting in all in unison. Tackle heal and shield stacking next and you probably fixed half the problems with performance and balance in cyro without needing to rebuild it from the ground up and add cooldowns

I can agree to these points. There's definitely no balance at the moment. Solo players tend to suffer while comped groups with meta sets and builds reign supreme. It's just become stale. Most fights are now comped groups with 40-50k health ult dumping with stacked Rush pulls with hardly any counter to it

Iriidius · February 16

Synapsis123 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

It is entirely possible to virtually never get pulled by Rush of Agony, you just have to learn the counterplay.
It can only be blocked, if you try to dodge, you will be pulled anyway.

There will be a gap closer on your position.
You now have 800 ms to block and get away from the Fear that is certain to follow. You absolutely can do this consistently.
If you don't block, you will be pulled into the bomb, if you don't move, you'll be feared. If you're pulled or feared you will die.
Both of these are avoidable.

When an organized group is running at you, you should know this is coming, be prepared to block the chains at a moments notice. A ballgroup isn't exactly a subtle telegraph.

If you die to Rush of Agony, it is because you made an avoidable mistake.
You died to lack of situational awareness (not paying attention to someone gap closing onto your position ahead of a group; stacking right on top of a bunch of other people), or a build issue (lacking self heals/damage shields/major evasion).

Now if the set should, or should not, apply it's own CC immunity is a separate issue, but the degree to which RoA gets blamed for issues that are actually caused by a lack of understanding of gameplay mechanics is unwarranted.

There are several flops on this. The set is primarily used in group bombing. The counterplay if you can even see the animation in the first place is to block it....... When a ball zerg ult dumps what is going to happen if you block? You will be hit with a cc that goes through block. So either you dont block and get pulled and stunned or you do block and get killed anyways.

The only counterplay is to either do not be in the 15m gap + 12m aoe area in the first place or use an immovable pot and sprint away. Keep in mind in 8s you will have to do this again or have made it 27m away in that time. If you do not have an immov pot the only other option is to hopefully be on a flat asset surface and do a sprint bunny hop away while blocking....which is not easy to do in 800ms for 99% of the playerbase.
Telegraph: what are good examples? Probably meteor or DC are the best examples for telegraphed nukes. Although now zos made valkyn, an inconsequential proc set, have the same animation as a nuke ultimate...... cmon design 101. The chains could be more pronounced or make the chains sound effect at the beginning of the proc. This is a greater design issue with the game where zos ran rampant with dlc proc sets and now there are 10000000 little animations that overlap and hide each other. There was no design control on releases for this stuff and now it has drastically hurt combat.

Timing: Is 800ms or 1gcd good enough? IMO it is close, but DC is 1s and meteor is about 2s. Somewhere inbetween is the sweetspot. I believe 1.2s is probably more ideal. This is at least 4-5 average human reactions which has always been somewhat fair for both sides in previous counterplay mechanics.

CC wise: the pull should apply a stun, meaning that if I get pulled I will be stuck crouched over upon landing. This also means at any point in the pull I can cc break and walk away.

Damage wise: the damage should be instantly applied to the defending party upon landing at the target location. Honestly an aoe pull is already strong enough that it doesn't need another 5 piece proc on top of itself. The current 2s delay damage was intended to offset the tooltip value..... which then didnt work because players would instinctively be panicked to escape and never get hit.....thus zos trying to solve a problem they just created in a roundabout way made the pull not apply cc immunity. So not only can you get your cake, but you get to eat it too.

Cooldown: seriously, 8s......cmon its a bomb set. At best most people only get dawnbreaker every 20s. Even acuity wardens built for ult gen have to wait 30s. Why give ball groups the most over powered tool every 8s? If this set was "designed to counter groups" like the dev note said, why is it set on a cooldown that is vastly unnecessary for solo and small teams, but enables ball group abuse?
IDK it just clearly fails on all 5 major components of its design.

How does rush matter at all in your argument? If you stand in the path of a ball group and get hit by a hard CC while they were ult dumping you were going to die anyway.

Most of the players would not have stood in the path of the ballgroup without getting pulled by rush of agony into it or speed reduction from blocking it.

Iriidius · February 16

Synapsis123 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

It is entirely possible to virtually never get pulled by Rush of Agony, you just have to learn the counterplay.
It can only be blocked, if you try to dodge, you will be pulled anyway.

There will be a gap closer on your position.
You now have 800 ms to block and get away from the Fear that is certain to follow. You absolutely can do this consistently.
If you don't block, you will be pulled into the bomb, if you don't move, you'll be feared. If you're pulled or feared you will die.
Both of these are avoidable.

When an organized group is running at you, you should know this is coming, be prepared to block the chains at a moments notice. A ballgroup isn't exactly a subtle telegraph.

If you die to Rush of Agony, it is because you made an avoidable mistake.
You died to lack of situational awareness (not paying attention to someone gap closing onto your position ahead of a group; stacking right on top of a bunch of other people), or a build issue (lacking self heals/damage shields/major evasion).

Now if the set should, or should not, apply it's own CC immunity is a separate issue, but the degree to which RoA gets blamed for issues that are actually caused by a lack of understanding of gameplay mechanics is unwarranted.

There are several flops on this. The set is primarily used in group bombing. The counterplay if you can even see the animation in the first place is to block it....... When a ball zerg ult dumps what is going to happen if you block? You will be hit with a cc that goes through block. So either you dont block and get pulled and stunned or you do block and get killed anyways.

The only counterplay is to either do not be in the 15m gap + 12m aoe area in the first place or use an immovable pot and sprint away. Keep in mind in 8s you will have to do this again or have made it 27m away in that time. If you do not have an immov pot the only other option is to hopefully be on a flat asset surface and do a sprint bunny hop away while blocking....which is not easy to do in 800ms for 99% of the playerbase.
Telegraph: what are good examples? Probably meteor or DC are the best examples for telegraphed nukes. Although now zos made valkyn, an inconsequential proc set, have the same animation as a nuke ultimate...... cmon design 101. The chains could be more pronounced or make the chains sound effect at the beginning of the proc. This is a greater design issue with the game where zos ran rampant with dlc proc sets and now there are 10000000 little animations that overlap and hide each other. There was no design control on releases for this stuff and now it has drastically hurt combat.

Timing: Is 800ms or 1gcd good enough? IMO it is close, but DC is 1s and meteor is about 2s. Somewhere inbetween is the sweetspot. I believe 1.2s is probably more ideal. This is at least 4-5 average human reactions which has always been somewhat fair for both sides in previous counterplay mechanics.

CC wise: the pull should apply a stun, meaning that if I get pulled I will be stuck crouched over upon landing. This also means at any point in the pull I can cc break and walk away.

Damage wise: the damage should be instantly applied to the defending party upon landing at the target location. Honestly an aoe pull is already strong enough that it doesn't need another 5 piece proc on top of itself. The current 2s delay damage was intended to offset the tooltip value..... which then didnt work because players would instinctively be panicked to escape and never get hit.....thus zos trying to solve a problem they just created in a roundabout way made the pull not apply cc immunity. So not only can you get your cake, but you get to eat it too.

Cooldown: seriously, 8s......cmon its a bomb set. At best most people only get dawnbreaker every 20s. Even acuity wardens built for ult gen have to wait 30s. Why give ball groups the most over powered tool every 8s? If this set was "designed to counter groups" like the dev note said, why is it set on a cooldown that is vastly unnecessary for solo and small teams, but enables ball group abuse?
IDK it just clearly fails on all 5 major components of its design.

How does rush matter at all in your argument? If you stand in the path of a ball group and get hit by a hard CC while they were ult dumping you were going to die anyway.

The whole argument of Minc was about rush of agony.
If all the players killed using rush of agony would have died anyway why do you even use it?
Probably because they would not have died without rush of agony.