Get rid of Rushing Agony from PvP right NOW please

OutLaw_Nynx

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Tested Rush yesterday and can say that it is now much better.

Who would have guessed having a clear telegraph with opportunity for counterplay against the strongest form of CC that doesn't apply immunity would be a good idea?

@MincMincMinc

Are you able to post a photo or video of it?

MincMincMinc

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Tested Rush yesterday and can say that it is now much better.

Who would have guessed having a clear telegraph with opportunity for counterplay against the strongest form of CC that doesn't apply immunity would be a good idea?

@MincMincMinc

Are you able to post a photo or video of it?

Oh sorry forum notifications dont work, so i didnt see this. I may be able to tomorrow.

• The animation looks much cooler tbh and is easily seen.
• Once seen you have 2-3 average human reaction times to respond by blocking
• It pulls players panic rolling
• Radius seems fine
• I have not tested how it interacts with streak as a counterplay. Because streak may not "move" your character hitbox quick enough.

RaidingTraiding

not holding my breath that these changes are any good until we see it in a lag heavy environment. Even then, we shouldn't be satisfied with such a half ass attempt at balance. as long as this set doesn't obey immunity rules and has an 8 second cool down it's still obscenely overpowered. Don't have any hope they will address those issues. It's been this broken for years and this is all they can come up with? This set is one of the main contributing factors on the population decline. That and shield and hot stacking which they addressed with another half assed bandaid fix. That's a whole other post.

YandereGirlfriend

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

not holding my breath that these changes are any good until we see it in a lag heavy environment. Even then, we shouldn't be satisfied with such a half ass attempt at balance. as long as this set doesn't obey immunity rules and has an 8 second cool down it's still obscenely overpowered. Don't have any hope they will address those issues. It's been this broken for years and this is all they can come up with? This set is one of the main contributing factors on the population decline. That and shield and hot stacking which they addressed with another half assed bandaid fix. That's a whole other post.

You can't balance anything on the assumption of lag. In lag, the entire game doesn't work as intended. You can't Break Free, Block doesn't register, you die out of thin air due to de-syncs, you can't execute precision combos or counterplays, etc.

The change does exactly what it says on the box. The visual cue is very clear. Anyone not reacting to it is squarely in the column of skill issue. Even huge detractors of the set agree on this now.

CameraBeardThePirate

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

not holding my breath that these changes are any good until we see it in a lag heavy environment. Even then, we shouldn't be satisfied with such a half ass attempt at balance. as long as this set doesn't obey immunity rules and has an 8 second cool down it's still obscenely overpowered. Don't have any hope they will address those issues. It's been this broken for years and this is all they can come up with? This set is one of the main contributing factors on the population decline. That and shield and hot stacking which they addressed with another half assed bandaid fix. That's a whole other post.

You can't balance anything on the assumption of lag. In lag, the entire game doesn't work as intended. You can't Break Free, Block doesn't register, you die out of thin air due to de-syncs, you can't execute precision combos or counterplays, etc.

The change does exactly what it says on the box. The visual cue is very clear. Anyone not reacting to it is squarely in the column of skill issue. Even huge detractors of the set agree on this now.

I agree with everything you said, but it should still apply CC immunity. Being the only thing in the game that breaks a core rule of combat is silly.

MincMincMinc

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

not holding my breath that these changes are any good until we see it in a lag heavy environment. Even then, we shouldn't be satisfied with such a half ass attempt at balance. as long as this set doesn't obey immunity rules and has an 8 second cool down it's still obscenely overpowered. Don't have any hope they will address those issues. It's been this broken for years and this is all they can come up with? This set is one of the main contributing factors on the population decline. That and shield and hot stacking which they addressed with another half assed bandaid fix. That's a whole other post.

You can't balance anything on the assumption of lag. In lag, the entire game doesn't work as intended. You can't Break Free, Block doesn't register, you die out of thin air due to de-syncs, you can't execute precision combos or counterplays, etc.

The change does exactly what it says on the box. The visual cue is very clear. Anyone not reacting to it is squarely in the column of skill issue. Even huge detractors of the set agree on this now.

I agree with everything you said, but it should still apply CC immunity. Being the only thing in the game that breaks a core rule of combat is silly.

IMO it should just apply a stun, but needs a clear telegraph before hand. The danger of no immunity means failing one counterplay GUARANTEES you can fall for second one. For instance warden charm has the only counterplay of not being in an area. Conveniently RoA can pull you into an area. So now you are given only 1 chance to counterplay, but 2 punishments.

This is probably how I would have done the skill

• So after the proc condition, chains should shoot to the targets preventing them from moving 10m away from the center, this is your telegraph
• Then when chained, a delay of 1s in which you have to block the pull or cc break the chain for immunity
• Failure to do so results in being stunned and pulled. At which any point you could cc break

Honestly I would have done dk chains in a similar way, locking the players together until the pull.

silentxthreat

this set needs to be removed from the game. the changes are ok but this is the dingle most asked for change and the devs should really at least entertain the idea of removing it.

that and remove snow threads from pvp. being immune to roots and using rush of agony was the downfall of pvp

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

silentxthreat wrote: »

this set needs to be removed from the game. the changes are ok but this is the dingle most asked for change and the devs should really at least entertain the idea of removing it.

that and remove snow threads from pvp. being immune to roots and using rush of agony was the downfall of pvp

groups were mostly immune from roots and snares before boots came into the game, boots just made it easier to be 100% uptime and removed the requirement for certain support roles. But I agree that they are not well balanced.

Snow treaders should make it so that you can still sprint but you cannot gain major and minor expedition. It would be an interesting choice whether or not to use them then.

Similarly Rush would be fine if it applied CC immunity like all other sets in PVP - Its fine to not apply cc immunity in PVE because mobs don't break free anyway but PVP needs to observe standard combat rules on all sets @ZOS_Gilliam.

The new change to rush just means people will be pulled into the circle and then charmed by the warden class script trying to escape, ground based pulls are actually often easier for 'pug farming' because you often do not want to go into the location ahead of time due to oils and damage taken. Placing a circle on the ground (in this case via pulling someone) is often safer for groups - its why purely vs pugs Dark Con was generally better than rush (you'd use both - Rush for the short cooldown, Dark con for the unsafe pushes like back flag to front flag)

MincMincMinc

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Snow treaders should make it so that you can still sprint but you cannot gain major and minor expedition. It would be an interesting choice whether or not to use them then.

Just goes to show how power crept the movement system is in the game. You can essentially reach cap without sprint these days without losing viability as a build. I still remember making a scroll running build in the first two years..... You literally had to be useless for everything else.

Now a days in pvp you can hit the caps for Speed, pen, critchance, crit damage and even resists on the same build if you want.

silentxthreat

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Kevin please take a solid look at this thread for feedback. these changes are very important if we want pvp to be good again for anything but ball groups

Joy_Division

With the continuing discussion, am I to assume this set still is a problem even after these changes? I dont have the pts so I cant tell. Does anyone have a video?

MincMincMinc

Joy_Division wrote: »

With the continuing discussion, am I to assume this set still is a problem even after these changes? I dont have the pts so I cant tell. Does anyone have a video?

MashmalloMan and I tested it on pts for PvP issues and it is fine now. I was too lazy to make a vid for it. Thought a youtuber would do it......but they are just as lazy and just commentate on things without actually showcasing the changes.

The animation looks cooler and is more visible creating a clear telegraph. There is enough delay for you to make a decision and block to counter the set. The set works how it should have from the start.

Decimus

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

not holding my breath that these changes are any good until we see it in a lag heavy environment. Even then, we shouldn't be satisfied with such a half ass attempt at balance. as long as this set doesn't obey immunity rules and has an 8 second cool down it's still obscenely overpowered. Don't have any hope they will address those issues. It's been this broken for years and this is all they can come up with? This set is one of the main contributing factors on the population decline. That and shield and hot stacking which they addressed with another half assed bandaid fix. That's a whole other post.

You can't balance anything on the assumption of lag. In lag, the entire game doesn't work as intended. You can't Break Free, Block doesn't register, you die out of thin air due to de-syncs, you can't execute precision combos or counterplays, etc.

The change does exactly what it says on the box. The visual cue is very clear. Anyone not reacting to it is squarely in the column of skill issue. Even huge detractors of the set agree on this now.

I agree with everything you said, but it should still apply CC immunity. Being the only thing in the game that breaks a core rule of combat is silly.

I have a different take on this: I think there should be more sets like Rush of Agony that do something special and transform your gameplay... as long as they're properly balanced and fun to utilize/play against.

Being eternally constrained by arbitrary "rules" placed upon sets just keeps the diversity of potential sets as small as possible and you wind up with a lot of sets that basically all do the same thing.


That said, very good changes on the PTS - glad they listened to feedback! Feels like it punishes people who misplay now rather than providing pulls outside of your FOV and a whole lot of other nonsense, but can still be utilized to provide a mechanic your opponent(s) need to play around.

For those wondering, the damage still happens around your character - just the problematic pull is a lot... less problematic now.

MincMincMinc

Decimus wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

not holding my breath that these changes are any good until we see it in a lag heavy environment. Even then, we shouldn't be satisfied with such a half ass attempt at balance. as long as this set doesn't obey immunity rules and has an 8 second cool down it's still obscenely overpowered. Don't have any hope they will address those issues. It's been this broken for years and this is all they can come up with? This set is one of the main contributing factors on the population decline. That and shield and hot stacking which they addressed with another half assed bandaid fix. That's a whole other post.

You can't balance anything on the assumption of lag. In lag, the entire game doesn't work as intended. You can't Break Free, Block doesn't register, you die out of thin air due to de-syncs, you can't execute precision combos or counterplays, etc.

The change does exactly what it says on the box. The visual cue is very clear. Anyone not reacting to it is squarely in the column of skill issue. Even huge detractors of the set agree on this now.

I agree with everything you said, but it should still apply CC immunity. Being the only thing in the game that breaks a core rule of combat is silly.

I have a different take on this: I think there should be more sets like Rush of Agony that do something special and transform your gameplay... as long as they're properly balanced and fun to utilize/play against.

My problem with this thought process is that ACTIVE skills that the player uses are getting dumber and dumber to the point where you choose half your bar for the passive portion of the ACTIVE skill. In turn people find the combat boring because all of the active parts of the skills have been gutted by comparison to the rest of the game.

At a certain point combat just turns into a pokemon battle where we just watch our slotted latest dlc sets compete with each other.