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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Official Stream Team Member Exploiting and Being Offensive Toward Viewers
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Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The ToS and Code of Conduct you agree to applies to any platforms controlled by Zenimax Online Studios, it does not apply to platforms such as Twitch or Discord, to what you say outside to your friends etc etc.
You are completely wrong. It does apply. That's why players get banned for showing how to exploit in YouTube, Twitch and so.
If it wouldn't apply, they would't be banned because they are not doing it in-game.
Try it, go to your Discord and show people how to do an exploit, or insult or aggravate someone from ZOS, Gina, Rich, etc. Go, do it in your Discord (not in-game) and let me know how that goes for you.
Edited by Dragonnord on February 16, 2025 8:25PM8 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭✭Deci - You cannot reason with the unreasonable.
These "people" in here brigading. None of them are sincere in their positions.
I wouldn't waste your energy on them. Should ZOS listen to this nonsense it would only be a direct reflection of weaponized reporting systems.
Shame on these people for Virtue Signaling. But given that I know who some of them are it is done with malice and ill intent. If they can get ZOS to remove/ban/act on such a fickle thing as this. You can bet they will be targeting and attacking the remaining people who stream.
Regardless of anyone’s intent, the fact remains that multiple rules were broken here by an ESO Stream Team member. This isn’t some ‘brigade’ or ‘virtue signaling’—it’s holding an official representative of the game accountable for exploiting and toxic behavior. If ZOS actually enforced their own standards, this wouldn’t even be a debate.
Where in the rules does it say you cannot place a shade here while using Agony?
Where in the rules does it say you cannot use a specific word on a Public Video Service that is 100% voluntary.?
If this is the case, I am willing to bet all of us have once spoken a bad word while playing. Might as well delete accounts. You start i'll follow.
They don’t list every single exploit because they can’t foresee every possible way people will abuse mechanics. The rule is simple—don’t exploit. And the streamer in question isn’t just a random player; they’re an ESO Stream Team member, meaning they represent the game and are held to a higher standard. Yes, it’s a public video service, but when you’re officially affiliated with ZOS, what you say and do reflects on them. That’s the difference.11 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also as a side note using your example, you think those football players don't swear and curse and punch things after a bad game? Because I can guarantee you a lot of them do.
I think you're massively underestimating the number of adults who have learned emotional regulation skills, and who don't feel the need or the desire to verbally abuse other people with slurs and sexual harassment when they get frustrated or mad.
I take my job much more seriously than anyone (should) take non-professional gaming, and I don't throw staplers or shout sexual threats at my coworkers when a freelancer messes up and makes me re-edit an entire page of copy. I think anyone who has ever held a job in the real world knows how important it is to not do that.
It's abuse. And the fact that you believe it's perfectly fine to verbally abuse people for any reason, much less such a trivial and silly reason as gaming, makes me very concerned.
Where did I say one should verbally abuse people for any reason? Also, while you might consider something trivial and silly, it might not be for other people... For me working is irrelevant and trivial, it doesn't bring me joy or a sense of success while gaming does.
I also would consider playing any game at the very top level as "professional gaming", especially if you make money out of doing so - this is the case for a lot of streamers.
Back to the point though, if you randomly walk up to your coworkers for example and start insulting them then yes, you're in the wrong here - but if you're for example bullied at your school and you start throwing fists at or insulting people bullying you, are you in the wrong here? I don't think so.
Context matters, the intent of the other party matters. Coworker messing up by accident isn't being malicious, some random guy walking up to your office and thrashing it is - and I'd be swearing at that person for sure with zero regrets afterwards.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Even if someone was being annoying in chat, that doesn’t justify an ESO Stream Team member breaking the rules, exploiting, and throwing out slurs. If they can’t handle criticism without resorting to that, maybe they shouldn’t be in a position that represents the game. Context matters, sure—but so do professionalism and accountability.
Actually, it does - on literally every other game category on Twitch. How you react to people being obnoxious on your stream is up to you and Twitch's Terms of Service, nothing else.
Not going to name drop people, but just one good example: there is a certain person with thousands of viewers on a much more popular MMO called World of Warcraft who is part of their streamer program and even casts official tournaments for them who frequently calls people all kinds of names if they're being obnoxious towards him or trying to mess with him.
This is just one example, in one category - you'll find thousands of others.
My question to you is, why do you think Elder Scrolls Online/ZOS needs to be different from literally everyone else and outside of their jurisdiction moderate language usage of their streamers?Edited by Decimus on February 16, 2025 8:30PM2 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭✭Also as a side note using your example, you think those football players don't swear and curse and punch things after a bad game? Because I can guarantee you a lot of them do.
I think you're massively underestimating the number of adults who have learned emotional regulation skills, and who don't feel the need or the desire to verbally abuse other people with slurs and sexual harassment when they get frustrated or mad.
I take my job much more seriously than anyone (should) take non-professional gaming, and I don't throw staplers or shout sexual threats at my coworkers when a freelancer messes up and makes me re-edit an entire page of copy. I think anyone who has ever held a job in the real world knows how important it is to not do that.
It's abuse. And the fact that you believe it's perfectly fine to verbally abuse people for any reason, much less such a trivial and silly reason as gaming, makes me very concerned.
Where did I say one should verbally abuse people for any reason? Also, while you might consider something trivial and silly, it might not be for other people... For me working is irrelevant and trivial, it doesn't bring me joy or a sense of success while gaming does.
I also would consider playing any game at the very top level as "professional gaming", especially if you make money out of doing so - this is the case for a lot of streamers.
Back to the point though, if you randomly walk up to your coworkers for example and start insulting them then yes, you're in the wrong here - but if you're for example bullied at your school and you start throwing fists at or insulting people bullying you, are you in the wrong here? I don't think so.
Context matters, the intent of the other party matters. Coworker messing up by accident isn't being malicious, some random guy walking up to your office and thrashing it is - and I'd be swearing at that person for sure with zero regrets afterwards.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Even if someone was being annoying in chat, that doesn’t justify an ESO Stream Team member breaking the rules, exploiting, and throwing out slurs. If they can’t handle criticism without resorting to that, maybe they shouldn’t be in a position that represents the game. Context matters, sure—but so do professionalism and accountability.
Actually, it does - on literally every other game category on Twitch. How you react to people being obnoxious on your stream is up to you and Twitch's Terms of Service, nothing else.
Not going to name drop people, but just one good example: there is a certain person with thousands of viewers on a much more popular MMO called World of Warcraft who is part of their streamer program and even casts official tournaments for them who frequently calls people all kinds of names if they're being obnoxious towards him or trying to mess with him.
This is just one example, in one category - you'll find thousands of others.
My question to you is, why do you think Elder Scrolls Online/ZOS needs to be different from literally everyone else and outside of their jurisdiction moderate language usage of their streamers?
Just because other games allow it doesn’t mean ESO/ZOS should. Every game and company sets its own standards, and ESO has an official Stream Team—a group that represents the game. That’s the key difference. Being toxic and exploiting while in an official program isn’t the same as a random streamer mouthing off. If ZOS wants to maintain any credibility, their Stream Team members should actually follow the rules, not get a free pass because ‘other games do it.’11 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dragonnord wrote: »The ToS and Code of Conduct you agree to applies to any platforms controlled by Zenimax Online Studios, it does not apply to platforms such as Twitch or Discord, to what you say outside to your friends etc etc.
You are completely wrong. It does apply. That's why players get banned for showing how to exploit in YouTube, Twitch and so.
If it wouldn't apply, they would't be banned because they are not doing it in-game.
Try it, go to your Discord and show people how to do an exploit, or insult or aggravate someone from ZOS, Gina, Rich, etc. Go, do it in your Discord (not in-game) and let me know how that goes for you.
They are literally doing the exploits in game, and showcasing them on Twitch/Youtube is what turns it from no harm no foul into malicious and harmful for the game. It becomes ZOS's best interest to ban these people. These Twitch/Youtube videos are also just the proof of people exploiting - a lot of people get banned for exploits even without videos if their actions are detected or recorded by someone else.
If the language used by streamers isn't typed in game, on the forums or anywhere Zenimax affiliated, then the "offense" isn't happening on their platform.
Also encouraging people to exploit is also a bit... on the grey side of things - I'd probably edit out the last part of your post.2 -
Gizit✭✭✭Deci - You cannot reason with the unreasonable.
These "people" in here brigading. None of them are sincere in their positions.
I wouldn't waste your energy on them. Should ZOS listen to this nonsense it would only be a direct reflection of weaponized reporting systems.
Shame on these people for Virtue Signaling. But given that I know who some of them are it is done with malice and ill intent. If they can get ZOS to remove/ban/act on such a fickle thing as this. You can bet they will be targeting and attacking the remaining people who stream.
I am very sincere in my position that sexually abusive language and slurs are bad things and cannot be excused with "everyone does it" (false) or "it's just PvPers being PvPers." I am extremely sincere in my position that such people should not be officially representing this game through officially promoted streams. I am also quite sincere in my position that the set in question was not intentionally designed to pull people through/into walls.
I am not thrilled to be referred to as "people" (with quotation marks), as if anyone who thinks this behavior is abhorrent isn't actually a real person. Ever think that maybe dehumanizing people may be part of the issue?
I'm also not thrilled with how caring about concepts like professionalism, respect, and empathy is being derogatorily referred to as "virtue signaling." Just because someone can't comprehend caring even a little bit about anyone other than themselves or their friends doesn't mean everyone else is lying when they say they do.
So you were watching when it happened or are you second hand offended?I do the things! for the team, score points! win the day by *** the stuff! HELL yeah!5 -
VoxAdActa✭✭✭✭✭
Where did I say one should verbally abuse people for any reason?
Emphasis added to original comment for clarity. There is no reason to verbally abuse people.Also, while you might consider something trivial and silly, it might not be for other people...
It is trivial and silly, full stop. It's a game. It's a hobby. A past-time. This is like saying it's fine to shout abuse at people if an anime series ends in a way you don't like, or if your front lawn has a weed in it. It's utterly meaningless in any context except the individual's emotional investment; if you believe that emotional investment entitles you to verbally abuse people, you are wrong.
Those who think like you are intentionally driving people away from PvP with their behavior, then acting confused as to why the population is rapidly shrinking and the issues with that part of the game are at the very bottom of the devs' to-do list. Congratulations; your behavior has successfully gate-kept your favorite activity from people with adult levels of emotional regulation and sense of perspective. If we're not willing to pretend that there's nothing more important in life than playing a video game, and that importance justifies abusive and sexually derogatory behavior, then we're not worthy of playing your precious game mode, as it's meant only for the hardest of the hard-core edgelords.For me working is irrelevant and trivial, it doesn't bring me joy or a sense of success while gaming does.
Yes, I can tell by your opinions on the concept of "professionalism."
Some people take the activities that prevent them from becoming destitute and homeless far more seriously than they take silly cartoons teabagging each other, but I suspect a lot of PvPers lack the appropriate frame of reference to understand that.but if you're for example bullied at your school and you start throwing fists at or insulting people bullying you, are you in the wrong here? I don't think so.
Since I've been out of school for longer than I was in it, I can't say I have the frame of reference to understand your analogy. I haven't had to "throw fists" at a "bully" in more than 20 years. I haven't even encountered a physically abusive bully in my normal comings-and-goings in the adult professional world, even when paychecks and mortgages were at stake.
So I guess I'll take your word for it, given that you're temporally much closer to "school bullies" than "micromanagers" or "unreasonable clients."Coworker messing up by accident isn't being malicious, some random guy walking up to your office and thrashing it is - and I'd be swearing at that person for sure with zero regrets afterwards.
Some random guy walking up to my office and thrashing it would be tackled by security and arrested. I wouldn't have to swear at that person. But again, I feel like you lack a frame of reference for how things work when you've reached a different life stage.Edited by VoxAdActa on February 16, 2025 8:38PM9 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »[snip]
If this is an "exploit" as some people (including yourself) are saying, why are you sharing the specifics of how to do it?
If ZOS considers this to be an "exploit," they can ban players for using it, as they've done in the past for other things players were doing to take advantage of bugs and unintended game behavior.
Personally, as someone who mainly PvEs but who usually has a lot of fun participating in PvP in Cyrodiil, I strongly dislike the sets and abilities that a lot of PvPers use to make themselves nearly unkillable, or kill dozens of enemy players in one move, or pull or push enemy players in ways that those enemy players can't control, etc.
But that is essentially what certain gear sets or active skills were designed to do.
And that is what many players do-- find ways to use or combine things in a game in ways that create some "cool" or "broken" outcome. I personally don't play that way, but I'm either in the minority or the "silent majority" in that respect.
But if a game company isn't banning players for doing something that other players claim is an "exploit," yet have banned players for doing other things that the company did classify as "exploits," then the thing that players are doing in this case are evidently not classified as an "exploit" by the company, no matter how much you or I may hate whatever they're doing.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2025 12:08PMI've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!0 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭✭Deci - You cannot reason with the unreasonable.
These "people" in here brigading. None of them are sincere in their positions.
I wouldn't waste your energy on them. Should ZOS listen to this nonsense it would only be a direct reflection of weaponized reporting systems.
Shame on these people for Virtue Signaling. But given that I know who some of them are it is done with malice and ill intent. If they can get ZOS to remove/ban/act on such a fickle thing as this. You can bet they will be targeting and attacking the remaining people who stream.
I am very sincere in my position that sexually abusive language and slurs are bad things and cannot be excused with "everyone does it" (false) or "it's just PvPers being PvPers." I am extremely sincere in my position that such people should not be officially representing this game through officially promoted streams. I am also quite sincere in my position that the set in question was not intentionally designed to pull people through/into walls.
I am not thrilled to be referred to as "people" (with quotation marks), as if anyone who thinks this behavior is abhorrent isn't actually a real person. Ever think that maybe dehumanizing people may be part of the issue?
I'm also not thrilled with how caring about concepts like professionalism, respect, and empathy is being derogatorily referred to as "virtue signaling." Just because someone can't comprehend caring even a little bit about anyone other than themselves or their friends doesn't mean everyone else is lying when they say they do.
So you were watching when it happened or are you second hand offended?
The clips are in this thread.
9 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also as a side note using your example, you think those football players don't swear and curse and punch things after a bad game? Because I can guarantee you a lot of them do.
I think you're massively underestimating the number of adults who have learned emotional regulation skills, and who don't feel the need or the desire to verbally abuse other people with slurs and sexual harassment when they get frustrated or mad.
I take my job much more seriously than anyone (should) take non-professional gaming, and I don't throw staplers or shout sexual threats at my coworkers when a freelancer messes up and makes me re-edit an entire page of copy. I think anyone who has ever held a job in the real world knows how important it is to not do that.
It's abuse. And the fact that you believe it's perfectly fine to verbally abuse people for any reason, much less such a trivial and silly reason as gaming, makes me very concerned.
Where did I say one should verbally abuse people for any reason? Also, while you might consider something trivial and silly, it might not be for other people... For me working is irrelevant and trivial, it doesn't bring me joy or a sense of success while gaming does.
I also would consider playing any game at the very top level as "professional gaming", especially if you make money out of doing so - this is the case for a lot of streamers.
Back to the point though, if you randomly walk up to your coworkers for example and start insulting them then yes, you're in the wrong here - but if you're for example bullied at your school and you start throwing fists at or insulting people bullying you, are you in the wrong here? I don't think so.
Context matters, the intent of the other party matters. Coworker messing up by accident isn't being malicious, some random guy walking up to your office and thrashing it is - and I'd be swearing at that person for sure with zero regrets afterwards.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Even if someone was being annoying in chat, that doesn’t justify an ESO Stream Team member breaking the rules, exploiting, and throwing out slurs. If they can’t handle criticism without resorting to that, maybe they shouldn’t be in a position that represents the game. Context matters, sure—but so do professionalism and accountability.
Actually, it does - on literally every other game category on Twitch. How you react to people being obnoxious on your stream is up to you and Twitch's Terms of Service, nothing else.
Not going to name drop people, but just one good example: there is a certain person with thousands of viewers on a much more popular MMO called World of Warcraft who is part of their streamer program and even casts official tournaments for them who frequently calls people all kinds of names if they're being obnoxious towards him or trying to mess with him.
This is just one example, in one category - you'll find thousands of others.
My question to you is, why do you think Elder Scrolls Online/ZOS needs to be different from literally everyone else and outside of their jurisdiction moderate language usage of their streamers?
Just because other games allow it doesn’t mean ESO/ZOS should. Every game and company sets its own standards, and ESO has an official Stream Team—a group that represents the game. That’s the key difference. Being toxic and exploiting while in an official program isn’t the same as a random streamer mouthing off. If ZOS wants to maintain any credibility, their Stream Team members should actually follow the rules, not get a free pass because ‘other games do it.’
Other games also have official Stream Teams, and members of those Stream Teams get into arguments, get heated and use swear words - it's human nature.
I asked you why ZOS should do things different from literally every other game on the Twitch category (especially when it's already struggling to compete with other MMOs there), you didn't answer.
Why would anyone want to join ZOS's Stream Team if the moment you have some <snip> try to duel you for attention/clout an entire battleground and you call them <snip> you're out of the program? You don't seem to understand how competitive PvP works and what happens to human brain when you're competing.3 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭✭Also as a side note using your example, you think those football players don't swear and curse and punch things after a bad game? Because I can guarantee you a lot of them do.
I think you're massively underestimating the number of adults who have learned emotional regulation skills, and who don't feel the need or the desire to verbally abuse other people with slurs and sexual harassment when they get frustrated or mad.
I take my job much more seriously than anyone (should) take non-professional gaming, and I don't throw staplers or shout sexual threats at my coworkers when a freelancer messes up and makes me re-edit an entire page of copy. I think anyone who has ever held a job in the real world knows how important it is to not do that.
It's abuse. And the fact that you believe it's perfectly fine to verbally abuse people for any reason, much less such a trivial and silly reason as gaming, makes me very concerned.
Where did I say one should verbally abuse people for any reason? Also, while you might consider something trivial and silly, it might not be for other people... For me working is irrelevant and trivial, it doesn't bring me joy or a sense of success while gaming does.
I also would consider playing any game at the very top level as "professional gaming", especially if you make money out of doing so - this is the case for a lot of streamers.
Back to the point though, if you randomly walk up to your coworkers for example and start insulting them then yes, you're in the wrong here - but if you're for example bullied at your school and you start throwing fists at or insulting people bullying you, are you in the wrong here? I don't think so.
Context matters, the intent of the other party matters. Coworker messing up by accident isn't being malicious, some random guy walking up to your office and thrashing it is - and I'd be swearing at that person for sure with zero regrets afterwards.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Even if someone was being annoying in chat, that doesn’t justify an ESO Stream Team member breaking the rules, exploiting, and throwing out slurs. If they can’t handle criticism without resorting to that, maybe they shouldn’t be in a position that represents the game. Context matters, sure—but so do professionalism and accountability.
Actually, it does - on literally every other game category on Twitch. How you react to people being obnoxious on your stream is up to you and Twitch's Terms of Service, nothing else.
Not going to name drop people, but just one good example: there is a certain person with thousands of viewers on a much more popular MMO called World of Warcraft who is part of their streamer program and even casts official tournaments for them who frequently calls people all kinds of names if they're being obnoxious towards him or trying to mess with him.
This is just one example, in one category - you'll find thousands of others.
My question to you is, why do you think Elder Scrolls Online/ZOS needs to be different from literally everyone else and outside of their jurisdiction moderate language usage of their streamers?
Just because other games allow it doesn’t mean ESO/ZOS should. Every game and company sets its own standards, and ESO has an official Stream Team—a group that represents the game. That’s the key difference. Being toxic and exploiting while in an official program isn’t the same as a random streamer mouthing off. If ZOS wants to maintain any credibility, their Stream Team members should actually follow the rules, not get a free pass because ‘other games do it.’
Other games also have official Stream Teams, and members of those Stream Teams get into arguments, get heated and use swear words - it's human nature.
I asked you why ZOS should do things different from literally every other game on the Twitch category (especially when it's already struggling to compete with other MMOs there), you didn't answer.
Why would anyone want to join ZOS's Stream Team if the moment you have some <snip> try to duel you for attention/clout an entire battleground and you call them <snip> you're out of the program? You don't seem to understand how competitive PvP works and what happens to human brain when you're competing.
ZOS should do things differently because they set the standards for their own game and community. Just because other games tolerate certain behavior doesn’t mean ESO has to. The moment you agree to be on the ESO Stream Team, you’re agreeing to uphold a certain level of professionalism—you represent the game. If someone can’t handle PvP without breaking rules, exploiting, or throwing out slurs, then maybe they shouldn’t be on the Stream Team in the first place. ‘Competitive mindset’ isn’t an excuse for unprofessional behavior, especially when you’re officially affiliated with the game.11 -
Gizit✭✭✭Deci - You cannot reason with the unreasonable.
These "people" in here brigading. None of them are sincere in their positions.
I wouldn't waste your energy on them. Should ZOS listen to this nonsense it would only be a direct reflection of weaponized reporting systems.
Shame on these people for Virtue Signaling. But given that I know who some of them are it is done with malice and ill intent. If they can get ZOS to remove/ban/act on such a fickle thing as this. You can bet they will be targeting and attacking the remaining people who stream.
Regardless of anyone’s intent, the fact remains that multiple rules were broken here by an ESO Stream Team member. This isn’t some ‘brigade’ or ‘virtue signaling’—it’s holding an official representative of the game accountable for exploiting and toxic behavior. If ZOS actually enforced their own standards, this wouldn’t even be a debate.
Where in the rules does it say you cannot place a shade here while using Agony?
Where in the rules does it say you cannot use a specific word on a Public Video Service that is 100% voluntary.?
If this is the case, I am willing to bet all of us have once spoken a bad word while playing. Might as well delete accounts. You start i'll follow.
They don’t list every single exploit because they can’t foresee every possible way people will abuse mechanics. The rule is simple—don’t exploit. And the streamer in question isn’t just a random player; they’re an ESO Stream Team member, meaning they represent the game and are held to a higher standard. Yes, it’s a public video service, but when you’re officially affiliated with ZOS, what you say and do reflects on them. That’s the difference.
So your saying you cannot prove that its an exploit? But are stating it is? Will you now create a thread about how Leap can knock players through walls. Those players are intentionally using leap, sounds crazy right...I do the things! for the team, score points! win the day by *** the stuff! HELL yeah!2 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Dragonnord wrote: »The ToS and Code of Conduct you agree to applies to any platforms controlled by Zenimax Online Studios, it does not apply to platforms such as Twitch or Discord, to what you say outside to your friends etc etc.
You are completely wrong. It does apply. That's why players get banned for showing how to exploit in YouTube, Twitch and so.
If it wouldn't apply, they would't be banned because they are not doing it in-game.
Try it, go to your Discord and show people how to do an exploit, or insult or aggravate someone from ZOS, Gina, Rich, etc. Go, do it in your Discord (not in-game) and let me know how that goes for you.
They are literally doing the exploits in game, and showcasing them on Twitch/Youtube is what turns it from no harm no foul into malicious and harmful for the game. It becomes ZOS's best interest to ban these people. These Twitch/Youtube videos are also just the proof of people exploiting - a lot of people get banned for exploits even without videos if their actions are detected or recorded by someone else.
If the language used by streamers isn't typed in game, on the forums or anywhere Zenimax affiliated, then the "offense" isn't happening on their platform.
Also encouraging people to exploit is also a bit... on the grey side of things - I'd probably edit out the last part of your post.
Again, try it, go to your Discord and show people how to do an exploit (even if you didn't do it in-game, ever), or insult or aggravate someone from ZOS, Gina, Rich, etc. Go, do it in your Discord (not in-game) and let me know how that goes for you.
If you are so sure it doesn't apply I dare you. Come on. Go! Let's see if you dare. Do it and then tell me the outcome.4 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭Also as a side note using your example, you think those football players don't swear and curse and punch things after a bad game? Because I can guarantee you a lot of them do.
I think you're massively underestimating the number of adults who have learned emotional regulation skills, and who don't feel the need or the desire to verbally abuse other people with slurs and sexual harassment when they get frustrated or mad.
I take my job much more seriously than anyone (should) take non-professional gaming, and I don't throw staplers or shout sexual threats at my coworkers when a freelancer messes up and makes me re-edit an entire page of copy. I think anyone who has ever held a job in the real world knows how important it is to not do that.
It's abuse. And the fact that you believe it's perfectly fine to verbally abuse people for any reason, much less such a trivial and silly reason as gaming, makes me very concerned.
Where did I say one should verbally abuse people for any reason? Also, while you might consider something trivial and silly, it might not be for other people... For me working is irrelevant and trivial, it doesn't bring me joy or a sense of success while gaming does.
I also would consider playing any game at the very top level as "professional gaming", especially if you make money out of doing so - this is the case for a lot of streamers.
Back to the point though, if you randomly walk up to your coworkers for example and start insulting them then yes, you're in the wrong here - but if you're for example bullied at your school and you start throwing fists at or insulting people bullying you, are you in the wrong here? I don't think so.
Context matters, the intent of the other party matters. Coworker messing up by accident isn't being malicious, some random guy walking up to your office and thrashing it is - and I'd be swearing at that person for sure with zero regrets afterwards.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Even if someone was being annoying in chat, that doesn’t justify an ESO Stream Team member breaking the rules, exploiting, and throwing out slurs. If they can’t handle criticism without resorting to that, maybe they shouldn’t be in a position that represents the game. Context matters, sure—but so do professionalism and accountability.
Actually, it does - on literally every other game category on Twitch. How you react to people being obnoxious on your stream is up to you and Twitch's Terms of Service, nothing else.
Not going to name drop people, but just one good example: there is a certain person with thousands of viewers on a much more popular MMO called World of Warcraft who is part of their streamer program and even casts official tournaments for them who frequently calls people all kinds of names if they're being obnoxious towards him or trying to mess with him.
This is just one example, in one category - you'll find thousands of others.
My question to you is, why do you think Elder Scrolls Online/ZOS needs to be different from literally everyone else and outside of their jurisdiction moderate language usage of their streamers?
Just because other games allow it doesn’t mean ESO/ZOS should. Every game and company sets its own standards, and ESO has an official Stream Team—a group that represents the game. That’s the key difference. Being toxic and exploiting while in an official program isn’t the same as a random streamer mouthing off. If ZOS wants to maintain any credibility, their Stream Team members should actually follow the rules, not get a free pass because ‘other games do it.’
Other games also have official Stream Teams, and members of those Stream Teams get into arguments, get heated and use swear words - it's human nature.
I asked you why ZOS should do things different from literally every other game on the Twitch category (especially when it's already struggling to compete with other MMOs there), you didn't answer.
Why would anyone want to join ZOS's Stream Team if the moment you have some <snip> try to duel you for attention/clout an entire battleground and you call them <snip> you're out of the program? You don't seem to understand how competitive PvP works and what happens to human brain when you're competing.
It’s one thing to swear in the heat of the moment—everyone gets frustrated—but it’s completely different when someone starts using ableist slurs against members of the community, especially as a representative of the community. The fact that this person is a Stream Team member makes it even worse.
Other games may have official Stream Teams, and yes, heated moments happen, but that doesn’t mean every game should tolerate slurs just because others do. Holding Stream Team members to a higher standard isn’t some outlandish expectation—it’s basic community management.
If someone can’t handle competitive PvP without resorting to slurs, that’s on them, not the program enforcing reasonable standards. No one is saying people can’t get frustrated, but being part of an official team means representing the game professionally, not just playing it.11 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Where did I say one should verbally abuse people for any reason?
Emphasis added to original comment for clarity. There is no reason to verbally abuse people.Also, while you might consider something trivial and silly, it might not be for other people...
It is trivial and silly, full stop. It's a game. It's a hobby. A past-time. This is like saying it's fine to shout abuse at people if an anime series ends in a way you don't like, or if your front lawn has a weed in it. It's utterly meaningless in any context except the individual's emotional investment; if you believe that emotional investment entitles you to verbally abuse people, you are wrong.
Those who think like you are intentionally driving people away from PvP with their behavior, then acting confused as to why the population is rapidly shrinking and the issues with that part of the game are at the very bottom of the devs' to-do list. Congratulations; your behavior has successfully gate-kept your favorite activity from people with adult levels of emotional regulation and sense of perspective. If we're not willing to pretend that there's nothing more important in life than playing a video game, and that importance justifies abusive and sexually derogatory behavior, then we're not worthy of playing your precious game mode, as it's meant only for the hardest of the hard-core edgelords.For me working is irrelevant and trivial, it doesn't bring me joy or a sense of success while gaming does.
Yes, I can tell by your opinions on the concept of "professionalism."
Some people take the activities that prevent them from becoming destitute and homeless far more seriously than they take silly cartoons teabagging each other, but I suspect a lot of PvPers lack the appropriate frame of reference to understand that.but if you're for example bullied at your school and you start throwing fists at or insulting people bullying you, are you in the wrong here? I don't think so.
Since I've been out of school for longer than I was in it, I can't say I have the frame of reference to understand your analogy. I haven't had to "throw fists" at a "bully" in more than 20 years. I haven't even encountered a physically abusive bully in my normal comings-and-goings in the adult professional world, even when paychecks and mortgages were at stake.
So I guess I'll take your word for it, given that you're temporally much closer to "school bullies" than "micromanagers" or "unreasonable clients."Coworker messing up by accident isn't being malicious, some random guy walking up to your office and thrashing it is - and I'd be swearing at that person for sure with zero regrets afterwards.
Some random guy walking up to my office and thrashing it would be tackled by security and arrested. I wouldn't have to swear at that person. But again, I feel like you lack a frame of reference for how things work when you've reached a different life stage.
Ah the classic "what I do is more important than what you do", denigrating people who play video games while posting on a video game forum... and you wonder why people swear at others.
I can tell you are not familiar with competitive mindset or even the concept of being exceptionally good at anything and that's ok, we all have our ways of looking at life. It does make this whole conversation completely pointless though since you've already convinced yourself you're a better human being than whomever you're conversing with.
Just do whatever makes you happy I guess - good luck.5 -
IncultaWolf✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dozens of people were abusing frozen gate to pull players off their spawn in IC and yoink people into the kill zone on cyrodiil bridge fights and they never got banned or warned. Dozens of people abused the tarnished proc and proxy detonation bug to insta kill ballgroups and those players never got banned and I still see them in cyrodiil to this day. Zos might just not classify this unintended interaction with rush and shade as an "exploit" that warrants a ban.3 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also as a side note using your example, you think those football players don't swear and curse and punch things after a bad game? Because I can guarantee you a lot of them do.
I think you're massively underestimating the number of adults who have learned emotional regulation skills, and who don't feel the need or the desire to verbally abuse other people with slurs and sexual harassment when they get frustrated or mad.
I take my job much more seriously than anyone (should) take non-professional gaming, and I don't throw staplers or shout sexual threats at my coworkers when a freelancer messes up and makes me re-edit an entire page of copy. I think anyone who has ever held a job in the real world knows how important it is to not do that.
It's abuse. And the fact that you believe it's perfectly fine to verbally abuse people for any reason, much less such a trivial and silly reason as gaming, makes me very concerned.
Where did I say one should verbally abuse people for any reason? Also, while you might consider something trivial and silly, it might not be for other people... For me working is irrelevant and trivial, it doesn't bring me joy or a sense of success while gaming does.
I also would consider playing any game at the very top level as "professional gaming", especially if you make money out of doing so - this is the case for a lot of streamers.
Back to the point though, if you randomly walk up to your coworkers for example and start insulting them then yes, you're in the wrong here - but if you're for example bullied at your school and you start throwing fists at or insulting people bullying you, are you in the wrong here? I don't think so.
Context matters, the intent of the other party matters. Coworker messing up by accident isn't being malicious, some random guy walking up to your office and thrashing it is - and I'd be swearing at that person for sure with zero regrets afterwards.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Even if someone was being annoying in chat, that doesn’t justify an ESO Stream Team member breaking the rules, exploiting, and throwing out slurs. If they can’t handle criticism without resorting to that, maybe they shouldn’t be in a position that represents the game. Context matters, sure—but so do professionalism and accountability.
Actually, it does - on literally every other game category on Twitch. How you react to people being obnoxious on your stream is up to you and Twitch's Terms of Service, nothing else.
Not going to name drop people, but just one good example: there is a certain person with thousands of viewers on a much more popular MMO called World of Warcraft who is part of their streamer program and even casts official tournaments for them who frequently calls people all kinds of names if they're being obnoxious towards him or trying to mess with him.
This is just one example, in one category - you'll find thousands of others.
My question to you is, why do you think Elder Scrolls Online/ZOS needs to be different from literally everyone else and outside of their jurisdiction moderate language usage of their streamers?
Just because other games allow it doesn’t mean ESO/ZOS should. Every game and company sets its own standards, and ESO has an official Stream Team—a group that represents the game. That’s the key difference. Being toxic and exploiting while in an official program isn’t the same as a random streamer mouthing off. If ZOS wants to maintain any credibility, their Stream Team members should actually follow the rules, not get a free pass because ‘other games do it.’
Other games also have official Stream Teams, and members of those Stream Teams get into arguments, get heated and use swear words - it's human nature.
I asked you why ZOS should do things different from literally every other game on the Twitch category (especially when it's already struggling to compete with other MMOs there), you didn't answer.
Why would anyone want to join ZOS's Stream Team if the moment you have some <snip> try to duel you for attention/clout an entire battleground and you call them <snip> you're out of the program? You don't seem to understand how competitive PvP works and what happens to human brain when you're competing.
ZOS should do things differently because they set the standards for their own game and community. Just because other games tolerate certain behavior doesn’t mean ESO has to. The moment you agree to be on the ESO Stream Team, you’re agreeing to uphold a certain level of professionalism—you represent the game. If someone can’t handle PvP without breaking rules, exploiting, or throwing out slurs, then maybe they shouldn’t be on the Stream Team in the first place. ‘Competitive mindset’ isn’t an excuse for unprofessional behavior, especially when you’re officially affiliated with the game.
Ah, so you just want ZOS to moderate their streamers like you want them to be moderated and not according to the standard on Twitch... because you and others here seem like such big fans of streamers. Makes sense.
Good thing I'm here to explain how stupid that is.
The more restraints you put on streamers, the more you limit their personalities and their content. Elder Scrolls Online is already very far down in the Twitch category and isn't exactly filled of PvP streamers currently - if you expect them to keep streaming ESO while having to watch every word they say on stream... I don't know what to tell you.
Whether you like the streamers or not, they're providing content people enjoy watching and promoting the game to people looking to get into the game.
Less streamers->less viewers in ESO category->less players in ESO->less solo players for your ball group to run after.
Make sense?5 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭✭Also as a side note using your example, you think those football players don't swear and curse and punch things after a bad game? Because I can guarantee you a lot of them do.
I think you're massively underestimating the number of adults who have learned emotional regulation skills, and who don't feel the need or the desire to verbally abuse other people with slurs and sexual harassment when they get frustrated or mad.
I take my job much more seriously than anyone (should) take non-professional gaming, and I don't throw staplers or shout sexual threats at my coworkers when a freelancer messes up and makes me re-edit an entire page of copy. I think anyone who has ever held a job in the real world knows how important it is to not do that.
It's abuse. And the fact that you believe it's perfectly fine to verbally abuse people for any reason, much less such a trivial and silly reason as gaming, makes me very concerned.
Where did I say one should verbally abuse people for any reason? Also, while you might consider something trivial and silly, it might not be for other people... For me working is irrelevant and trivial, it doesn't bring me joy or a sense of success while gaming does.
I also would consider playing any game at the very top level as "professional gaming", especially if you make money out of doing so - this is the case for a lot of streamers.
Back to the point though, if you randomly walk up to your coworkers for example and start insulting them then yes, you're in the wrong here - but if you're for example bullied at your school and you start throwing fists at or insulting people bullying you, are you in the wrong here? I don't think so.
Context matters, the intent of the other party matters. Coworker messing up by accident isn't being malicious, some random guy walking up to your office and thrashing it is - and I'd be swearing at that person for sure with zero regrets afterwards.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Even if someone was being annoying in chat, that doesn’t justify an ESO Stream Team member breaking the rules, exploiting, and throwing out slurs. If they can’t handle criticism without resorting to that, maybe they shouldn’t be in a position that represents the game. Context matters, sure—but so do professionalism and accountability.
Actually, it does - on literally every other game category on Twitch. How you react to people being obnoxious on your stream is up to you and Twitch's Terms of Service, nothing else.
Not going to name drop people, but just one good example: there is a certain person with thousands of viewers on a much more popular MMO called World of Warcraft who is part of their streamer program and even casts official tournaments for them who frequently calls people all kinds of names if they're being obnoxious towards him or trying to mess with him.
This is just one example, in one category - you'll find thousands of others.
My question to you is, why do you think Elder Scrolls Online/ZOS needs to be different from literally everyone else and outside of their jurisdiction moderate language usage of their streamers?
Just because other games allow it doesn’t mean ESO/ZOS should. Every game and company sets its own standards, and ESO has an official Stream Team—a group that represents the game. That’s the key difference. Being toxic and exploiting while in an official program isn’t the same as a random streamer mouthing off. If ZOS wants to maintain any credibility, their Stream Team members should actually follow the rules, not get a free pass because ‘other games do it.’
Other games also have official Stream Teams, and members of those Stream Teams get into arguments, get heated and use swear words - it's human nature.
I asked you why ZOS should do things different from literally every other game on the Twitch category (especially when it's already struggling to compete with other MMOs there), you didn't answer.
Why would anyone want to join ZOS's Stream Team if the moment you have some <snip> try to duel you for attention/clout an entire battleground and you call them <snip> you're out of the program? You don't seem to understand how competitive PvP works and what happens to human brain when you're competing.
ZOS should do things differently because they set the standards for their own game and community. Just because other games tolerate certain behavior doesn’t mean ESO has to. The moment you agree to be on the ESO Stream Team, you’re agreeing to uphold a certain level of professionalism—you represent the game. If someone can’t handle PvP without breaking rules, exploiting, or throwing out slurs, then maybe they shouldn’t be on the Stream Team in the first place. ‘Competitive mindset’ isn’t an excuse for unprofessional behavior, especially when you’re officially affiliated with the game.
Ah, so you just want ZOS to moderate their streamers like you want them to be moderated and not according to the standard on Twitch... because you and others here seem like such big fans of streamers. Makes sense.
Good thing I'm here to explain how stupid that is.
The more restraints you put on streamers, the more you limit their personalities and their content. Elder Scrolls Online is already very far down in the Twitch category and isn't exactly filled of PvP streamers currently - if you expect them to keep streaming ESO while having to watch every word they say on stream... I don't know what to tell you.
Whether you like the streamers or not, they're providing content people enjoy watching and promoting the game to people looking to get into the game.
Less streamers->less viewers in ESO category->less players in ESO->less solo players for your ball group to run after.
Make sense?
Do you understand that he's part of the ESO Stream Team? I'm done debating with you because you clearly have nothing to contribute to the conversation and are also spewing misinformation.15 -
Deci - You cannot reason with the unreasonable.
These "people" in here brigading. None of them are sincere in their positions.
I wouldn't waste your energy on them. Should ZOS listen to this nonsense it would only be a direct reflection of weaponized reporting systems.
Shame on these people for Virtue Signaling. But given that I know who some of them are it is done with malice and ill intent. If they can get ZOS to remove/ban/act on such a fickle thing as this. You can bet they will be targeting and attacking the remaining people who stream.
Regardless of anyone’s intent, the fact remains that multiple rules were broken here by an ESO Stream Team member. This isn’t some ‘brigade’ or ‘virtue signaling’—it’s holding an official representative of the game accountable for exploiting and toxic behavior. If ZOS actually enforced their own standards, this wouldn’t even be a debate.
Where in the rules does it say you cannot place a shade here while using Agony?
Where in the rules does it say you cannot use a specific word on a Public Video Service that is 100% voluntary.?
If this is the case, I am willing to bet all of us have once spoken a bad word while playing. Might as well delete accounts. You start i'll follow.
They don’t list every single exploit because they can’t foresee every possible way people will abuse mechanics. The rule is simple—don’t exploit. And the streamer in question isn’t just a random player; they’re an ESO Stream Team member, meaning they represent the game and are held to a higher standard. Yes, it’s a public video service, but when you’re officially affiliated with ZOS, what you say and do reflects on them. That’s the difference.
So your saying you cannot prove that its an exploit? But are stating it is? Will you now create a thread about how Leap can knock players through walls. Those players are intentionally using leap, sounds crazy right...
When the scribing skills were released traveling knife with a pull focus script could be used in combination with the nb shade teleport to displace players much farther than intended. Zos fixed that unintended combination of game mechanics and several players were punished for abusing it. There are small differences between that situation and this one, but their similarity cannot be missed.
In this instance it is the unintended interaction between nb shade teleport and rush of agony causing players to be displaced far further than zos intended the set to be capable of. Intentional use of this unintended mechanic would fairly be labeled as "exploiting" and I believe the two videos posted to this thread demonstrate the streamer in question was exploiting. I would struggle to understand how another would reach a different conclusion unless they were being deliberately obtuse.10 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You don't have to throw slurs to be competitive. That's not necessary for a competitive mindset. It's poor sportsmanship.
The person performed an exploit others have been banned for and engaged in conduct explicitly against ZOS TOS while being a part of the stream team. Being part of the Stream Team is a privilege. They don't need to kick him off but a temporary suspension from the game seems appropriate to me. I'd also think a private talking to about Stream Team conduct would also be appropriate. 🤷🏿♀️
Edited by spartaxoxo on February 16, 2025 9:01PM15 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also as a side note using your example, you think those football players don't swear and curse and punch things after a bad game? Because I can guarantee you a lot of them do.
I think you're massively underestimating the number of adults who have learned emotional regulation skills, and who don't feel the need or the desire to verbally abuse other people with slurs and sexual harassment when they get frustrated or mad.
I take my job much more seriously than anyone (should) take non-professional gaming, and I don't throw staplers or shout sexual threats at my coworkers when a freelancer messes up and makes me re-edit an entire page of copy. I think anyone who has ever held a job in the real world knows how important it is to not do that.
It's abuse. And the fact that you believe it's perfectly fine to verbally abuse people for any reason, much less such a trivial and silly reason as gaming, makes me very concerned.
Where did I say one should verbally abuse people for any reason? Also, while you might consider something trivial and silly, it might not be for other people... For me working is irrelevant and trivial, it doesn't bring me joy or a sense of success while gaming does.
I also would consider playing any game at the very top level as "professional gaming", especially if you make money out of doing so - this is the case for a lot of streamers.
Back to the point though, if you randomly walk up to your coworkers for example and start insulting them then yes, you're in the wrong here - but if you're for example bullied at your school and you start throwing fists at or insulting people bullying you, are you in the wrong here? I don't think so.
Context matters, the intent of the other party matters. Coworker messing up by accident isn't being malicious, some random guy walking up to your office and thrashing it is - and I'd be swearing at that person for sure with zero regrets afterwards.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Even if someone was being annoying in chat, that doesn’t justify an ESO Stream Team member breaking the rules, exploiting, and throwing out slurs. If they can’t handle criticism without resorting to that, maybe they shouldn’t be in a position that represents the game. Context matters, sure—but so do professionalism and accountability.
Actually, it does - on literally every other game category on Twitch. How you react to people being obnoxious on your stream is up to you and Twitch's Terms of Service, nothing else.
Not going to name drop people, but just one good example: there is a certain person with thousands of viewers on a much more popular MMO called World of Warcraft who is part of their streamer program and even casts official tournaments for them who frequently calls people all kinds of names if they're being obnoxious towards him or trying to mess with him.
This is just one example, in one category - you'll find thousands of others.
My question to you is, why do you think Elder Scrolls Online/ZOS needs to be different from literally everyone else and outside of their jurisdiction moderate language usage of their streamers?
Just because other games allow it doesn’t mean ESO/ZOS should. Every game and company sets its own standards, and ESO has an official Stream Team—a group that represents the game. That’s the key difference. Being toxic and exploiting while in an official program isn’t the same as a random streamer mouthing off. If ZOS wants to maintain any credibility, their Stream Team members should actually follow the rules, not get a free pass because ‘other games do it.’
Other games also have official Stream Teams, and members of those Stream Teams get into arguments, get heated and use swear words - it's human nature.
I asked you why ZOS should do things different from literally every other game on the Twitch category (especially when it's already struggling to compete with other MMOs there), you didn't answer.
Why would anyone want to join ZOS's Stream Team if the moment you have some <snip> try to duel you for attention/clout an entire battleground and you call them <snip> you're out of the program? You don't seem to understand how competitive PvP works and what happens to human brain when you're competing.
ZOS should do things differently because they set the standards for their own game and community. Just because other games tolerate certain behavior doesn’t mean ESO has to. The moment you agree to be on the ESO Stream Team, you’re agreeing to uphold a certain level of professionalism—you represent the game. If someone can’t handle PvP without breaking rules, exploiting, or throwing out slurs, then maybe they shouldn’t be on the Stream Team in the first place. ‘Competitive mindset’ isn’t an excuse for unprofessional behavior, especially when you’re officially affiliated with the game.
Ah, so you just want ZOS to moderate their streamers like you want them to be moderated and not according to the standard on Twitch... because you and others here seem like such big fans of streamers. Makes sense.
Good thing I'm here to explain how stupid that is.
The more restraints you put on streamers, the more you limit their personalities and their content. Elder Scrolls Online is already very far down in the Twitch category and isn't exactly filled of PvP streamers currently - if you expect them to keep streaming ESO while having to watch every word they say on stream... I don't know what to tell you.
Whether you like the streamers or not, they're providing content people enjoy watching and promoting the game to people looking to get into the game.
Less streamers->less viewers in ESO category->less players in ESO->less solo players for your ball group to run after.
Make sense?
Do you understand that he's part of the ESO Stream Team? I'm done debating with you because you clearly have nothing to contribute to the conversation and are also spewing misinformation.
Of course, why shouldn't he be? Should the stream team only represent the housing aspect of the game, is there a problem having good PvPers on the program showing people alternative ways of how the game can be played?
A reminder that you'll find official stream teams in other games as well with sweaty (and sometimes swearing) PvPers.2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The poll was directed to this thread, so YES I think this player should be removed from the Stream Team.PCNA14 -
VoxAdActa✭✭✭✭✭"what I do is more important than what you do",
Maybe I should ask how many people you're supporting on your gaming? My job keeps three people housed, fed, and warm, preventing them from living in a tent in a city alleyway. How many people does your video game do that for? If the number isn't at least 1, then yes, providing the basic support necessary for sustaining multiple human lives is more important than video games.
Edited by VoxAdActa on February 16, 2025 9:21PM5 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭Also as a side note using your example, you think those football players don't swear and curse and punch things after a bad game? Because I can guarantee you a lot of them do.
I think you're massively underestimating the number of adults who have learned emotional regulation skills, and who don't feel the need or the desire to verbally abuse other people with slurs and sexual harassment when they get frustrated or mad.
I take my job much more seriously than anyone (should) take non-professional gaming, and I don't throw staplers or shout sexual threats at my coworkers when a freelancer messes up and makes me re-edit an entire page of copy. I think anyone who has ever held a job in the real world knows how important it is to not do that.
It's abuse. And the fact that you believe it's perfectly fine to verbally abuse people for any reason, much less such a trivial and silly reason as gaming, makes me very concerned.
Where did I say one should verbally abuse people for any reason? Also, while you might consider something trivial and silly, it might not be for other people... For me working is irrelevant and trivial, it doesn't bring me joy or a sense of success while gaming does.
I also would consider playing any game at the very top level as "professional gaming", especially if you make money out of doing so - this is the case for a lot of streamers.
Back to the point though, if you randomly walk up to your coworkers for example and start insulting them then yes, you're in the wrong here - but if you're for example bullied at your school and you start throwing fists at or insulting people bullying you, are you in the wrong here? I don't think so.
Context matters, the intent of the other party matters. Coworker messing up by accident isn't being malicious, some random guy walking up to your office and thrashing it is - and I'd be swearing at that person for sure with zero regrets afterwards.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Even if someone was being annoying in chat, that doesn’t justify an ESO Stream Team member breaking the rules, exploiting, and throwing out slurs. If they can’t handle criticism without resorting to that, maybe they shouldn’t be in a position that represents the game. Context matters, sure—but so do professionalism and accountability.
Actually, it does - on literally every other game category on Twitch. How you react to people being obnoxious on your stream is up to you and Twitch's Terms of Service, nothing else.
Not going to name drop people, but just one good example: there is a certain person with thousands of viewers on a much more popular MMO called World of Warcraft who is part of their streamer program and even casts official tournaments for them who frequently calls people all kinds of names if they're being obnoxious towards him or trying to mess with him.
This is just one example, in one category - you'll find thousands of others.
My question to you is, why do you think Elder Scrolls Online/ZOS needs to be different from literally everyone else and outside of their jurisdiction moderate language usage of their streamers?
Just because other games allow it doesn’t mean ESO/ZOS should. Every game and company sets its own standards, and ESO has an official Stream Team—a group that represents the game. That’s the key difference. Being toxic and exploiting while in an official program isn’t the same as a random streamer mouthing off. If ZOS wants to maintain any credibility, their Stream Team members should actually follow the rules, not get a free pass because ‘other games do it.’
Other games also have official Stream Teams, and members of those Stream Teams get into arguments, get heated and use swear words - it's human nature.
I asked you why ZOS should do things different from literally every other game on the Twitch category (especially when it's already struggling to compete with other MMOs there), you didn't answer.
Why would anyone want to join ZOS's Stream Team if the moment you have some <snip> try to duel you for attention/clout an entire battleground and you call them <snip> you're out of the program? You don't seem to understand how competitive PvP works and what happens to human brain when you're competing.
ZOS should do things differently because they set the standards for their own game and community. Just because other games tolerate certain behavior doesn’t mean ESO has to. The moment you agree to be on the ESO Stream Team, you’re agreeing to uphold a certain level of professionalism—you represent the game. If someone can’t handle PvP without breaking rules, exploiting, or throwing out slurs, then maybe they shouldn’t be on the Stream Team in the first place. ‘Competitive mindset’ isn’t an excuse for unprofessional behavior, especially when you’re officially affiliated with the game.
Ah, so you just want ZOS to moderate their streamers like you want them to be moderated and not according to the standard on Twitch... because you and others here seem like such big fans of streamers. Makes sense.
Good thing I'm here to explain how stupid that is.
The more restraints you put on streamers, the more you limit their personalities and their content. Elder Scrolls Online is already very far down in the Twitch category and isn't exactly filled of PvP streamers currently - if you expect them to keep streaming ESO while having to watch every word they say on stream... I don't know what to tell you.
Whether you like the streamers or not, they're providing content people enjoy watching and promoting the game to people looking to get into the game.
Less streamers->less viewers in ESO category->less players in ESO->less solo players for your ball group to run after.
Make sense?
Do you understand that he's part of the ESO Stream Team? I'm done debating with you because you clearly have nothing to contribute to the conversation and are also spewing misinformation.
Of course, why shouldn't he be? Should the stream team only represent the housing aspect of the game, is there a problem having good PvPers on the program showing people alternative ways of how the game can be played?
A reminder that you'll find official stream teams in other games as well with sweaty (and sometimes swearing) PvPers.
A stream team can absolutely include PvPers—there’s nothing wrong with showcasing different aspects of the game, including competitive play. However, being part of an official program comes with the responsibility to uphold community standards and represent the game in a positive way.
Using ableist slurs, insulting viewers, or making inappropriate comments isn’t about being a “sweaty PvPer”—it’s about failing to meet the expectations of respectful conduct. A stream team member should be able to compete, express strong opinions, and even get passionate without resorting to personal attacks or harmful language. Other games may have competitive players in their stream teams, but that doesn’t mean they get a free pass to be toxic.
This isn’t about whether PvPers belong on the team—it’s about whether someone who disregards community standards does.13 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Synapsis123 wrote: »Also as a side note using your example, you think those football players don't swear and curse and punch things after a bad game? Because I can guarantee you a lot of them do.
I think you're massively underestimating the number of adults who have learned emotional regulation skills, and who don't feel the need or the desire to verbally abuse other people with slurs and sexual harassment when they get frustrated or mad.
I take my job much more seriously than anyone (should) take non-professional gaming, and I don't throw staplers or shout sexual threats at my coworkers when a freelancer messes up and makes me re-edit an entire page of copy. I think anyone who has ever held a job in the real world knows how important it is to not do that.
It's abuse. And the fact that you believe it's perfectly fine to verbally abuse people for any reason, much less such a trivial and silly reason as gaming, makes me very concerned.
Where did I say one should verbally abuse people for any reason? Also, while you might consider something trivial and silly, it might not be for other people... For me working is irrelevant and trivial, it doesn't bring me joy or a sense of success while gaming does.
I also would consider playing any game at the very top level as "professional gaming", especially if you make money out of doing so - this is the case for a lot of streamers.
Back to the point though, if you randomly walk up to your coworkers for example and start insulting them then yes, you're in the wrong here - but if you're for example bullied at your school and you start throwing fists at or insulting people bullying you, are you in the wrong here? I don't think so.
Context matters, the intent of the other party matters. Coworker messing up by accident isn't being malicious, some random guy walking up to your office and thrashing it is - and I'd be swearing at that person for sure with zero regrets afterwards.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Even if someone was being annoying in chat, that doesn’t justify an ESO Stream Team member breaking the rules, exploiting, and throwing out slurs. If they can’t handle criticism without resorting to that, maybe they shouldn’t be in a position that represents the game. Context matters, sure—but so do professionalism and accountability.
Actually, it does - on literally every other game category on Twitch. How you react to people being obnoxious on your stream is up to you and Twitch's Terms of Service, nothing else.
Not going to name drop people, but just one good example: there is a certain person with thousands of viewers on a much more popular MMO called World of Warcraft who is part of their streamer program and even casts official tournaments for them who frequently calls people all kinds of names if they're being obnoxious towards him or trying to mess with him.
This is just one example, in one category - you'll find thousands of others.
My question to you is, why do you think Elder Scrolls Online/ZOS needs to be different from literally everyone else and outside of their jurisdiction moderate language usage of their streamers?
Just because other games allow it doesn’t mean ESO/ZOS should. Every game and company sets its own standards, and ESO has an official Stream Team—a group that represents the game. That’s the key difference. Being toxic and exploiting while in an official program isn’t the same as a random streamer mouthing off. If ZOS wants to maintain any credibility, their Stream Team members should actually follow the rules, not get a free pass because ‘other games do it.’
Other games also have official Stream Teams, and members of those Stream Teams get into arguments, get heated and use swear words - it's human nature.
I asked you why ZOS should do things different from literally every other game on the Twitch category (especially when it's already struggling to compete with other MMOs there), you didn't answer.
Why would anyone want to join ZOS's Stream Team if the moment you have some <snip> try to duel you for attention/clout an entire battleground and you call them <snip> you're out of the program? You don't seem to understand how competitive PvP works and what happens to human brain when you're competing.
ZOS should do things differently because they set the standards for their own game and community. Just because other games tolerate certain behavior doesn’t mean ESO has to. The moment you agree to be on the ESO Stream Team, you’re agreeing to uphold a certain level of professionalism—you represent the game. If someone can’t handle PvP without breaking rules, exploiting, or throwing out slurs, then maybe they shouldn’t be on the Stream Team in the first place. ‘Competitive mindset’ isn’t an excuse for unprofessional behavior, especially when you’re officially affiliated with the game.
Ah, so you just want ZOS to moderate their streamers like you want them to be moderated and not according to the standard on Twitch... because you and others here seem like such big fans of streamers. Makes sense.
Good thing I'm here to explain how stupid that is.
The more restraints you put on streamers, the more you limit their personalities and their content. Elder Scrolls Online is already very far down in the Twitch category and isn't exactly filled of PvP streamers currently - if you expect them to keep streaming ESO while having to watch every word they say on stream... I don't know what to tell you.
Whether you like the streamers or not, they're providing content people enjoy watching and promoting the game to people looking to get into the game.
Less streamers->less viewers in ESO category->less players in ESO->less solo players for your ball group to run after.
Make sense?
Do you understand that he's part of the ESO Stream Team? I'm done debating with you because you clearly have nothing to contribute to the conversation and are also spewing misinformation.
Of course, why shouldn't he be? Should the stream team only represent the housing aspect of the game, is there a problem having good PvPers on the program showing people alternative ways of how the game can be played?
A reminder that you'll find official stream teams in other games as well with sweaty (and sometimes swearing) PvPers.
A stream team can absolutely include PvPers—there’s nothing wrong with showcasing different aspects of the game, including competitive play. However, being part of an official program comes with the responsibility to uphold community standards and represent the game in a positive way.
Using ableist slurs, insulting viewers, or making inappropriate comments isn’t about being a “sweaty PvPer”—it’s about failing to meet the expectations of respectful conduct. A stream team member should be able to compete, express strong opinions, and even get passionate without resorting to personal attacks or harmful language. Other games may have competitive players in their stream teams, but that doesn’t mean they get a free pass to be toxic.
This isn’t about whether PvPers belong on the team—it’s about whether someone who disregards community standards does.
If being a streamer and/or doing PvP requires hate speech and sexual harassment, then it's gotta go. Good thing for the game and its community that it absolutely doesn't, as many people out there prove daily. I watch several streamers who have come nowhere close to either type of language.
This was a choice, and a poor one.13 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭"what I do is more important than what you do",
Maybe I should ask how many people you're supporting on your gaming? My job keeps three people housed, fed, and warm, preventing them from living in a tent in a city alleyway. How many people does your video game do that for? If the number isn't at least 1, then yes, providing the basic support necessary for sustaining multiple humans lives is more important than video games.
For you it is - for me it is a lot more important to be the best at what I do and pushing the limits of what is possible on my field.
Ideological differences - doesn't make me a better person than anyone, just someone who has different priorities in life.
You won't find me trying to make fun of or try to ego over people dedicating their lives to something else than gaming.
Best of luck with the normal life, as long as you enjoy it it is worth it.3 -
AaronMB✭✭✭Deci - You cannot reason with the unreasonable.
These "people" in here brigading. None of them are sincere in their positions.
I wouldn't waste your energy on them. Should ZOS listen to this nonsense it would only be a direct reflection of weaponized reporting systems.
Shame on these people for Virtue Signaling. But given that I know who some of them are it is done with malice and ill intent. If they can get ZOS to remove/ban/act on such a fickle thing as this. You can bet they will be targeting and attacking the remaining people who stream.
I am very sincere in my position that sexually abusive language and slurs are bad things and cannot be excused with "everyone does it" (false) or "it's just PvPers being PvPers." I am extremely sincere in my position that such people should not be officially representing this game through officially promoted streams. I am also quite sincere in my position that the set in question was not intentionally designed to pull people through/into walls.
I am not thrilled to be referred to as "people" (with quotation marks), as if anyone who thinks this behavior is abhorrent isn't actually a real person. Ever think that maybe dehumanizing people may be part of the issue?
I'm also not thrilled with how caring about concepts like professionalism, respect, and empathy is being derogatorily referred to as "virtue signaling." Just because someone can't comprehend caring even a little bit about anyone other than themselves or their friends doesn't mean everyone else is lying when they say they do.
So you were watching when it happened or are you second hand offended?
The clips are in this thread.
But you stated on page one that you were watching the stream at the time. Convenient.Edited by AaronMB on February 16, 2025 9:26PM3 -
VoxAdActa✭✭✭✭✭If being a streamer and/or doing PvP requires hate speech and sexual harassment, then it's gotta go. Good thing for the game and its community that it absolutely doesn't, as many people out there prove daily. I watch several streamers who have come nowhere close to either type of language.
This was a choice, and a poor one.
It apparently does require hate speech and sexual harassment, or at least the normalization of hate speech and sexual harassment, as per at least one commenter on this thread. It is also apparently more important than even IRL human lives, again, as per that commenter.
That mindset makes the community beyond "toxic." Language is my whole job, and I'm having trouble coming up with a harsh enough word to describe it. Even "abhorrent" doesn't feel strong enough.
But you can't argue with kids, I guess.
10 -
Katheriah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's kind of interesting, but also frustrating, to see a conversation go on so long on mismatching frequencies. It makes it so some posts seem like they belong in a different (more generic) subject.
It's not about the fact that he streams. It's about the fact that he's a Stream Team Member. It's in the title. We're talking about an Official Stream Team Member. Not Old Bob from around the corner that decides to stream & curse on Twitch. But someone who's expected to kind of be what ZOS expects to be a good example for the community?
Because... He's a Stream Team Member!
Is it clear now that the point is that he's a Stream Team Member???
I can repeat it once more if needed. Or twice.15 -
Grec1a✭✭✭✭The poll never should have been closed and directed to this thread, where there discussion is much broader than the very specific question in the poll. Very poor moderation decision by ZOS.
The thread may have been closed, but it looks like you can still vote in the poll.It's a tradition, or an old charter, or something...2
This discussion has been closed.