Official Stream Team Member Exploiting and Being Offensive Toward Viewers

Orbital78 · February 15

darvaria · February 15

IIILaaLaaIII wrote: »

Instead of addressing the issue professionally, they became extremely offensive towards me. As a young woman, I was shocked when they told me to “suck my d***” and called me “ret*rded.” This kind of behaviour is completely unacceptable, especially from someone representing the game and the community.

The only action I would find acceptable would be a PERM ban. You find a single case where the words "Suck my ***" would NOT be defined as "sexual harassment". It has even been extended to be "implied sexual assault" (yes please look this up)

I find the continued support of what I am sure would be considered as "sexual harassment" to be outright appalling. I no longer get on discord or watch any steams or twitch because I have literally been stalked in this game. I have been given a solution but it is time this stops for everyone. The act of 'tbagging' is insulting to a lot of women and to some gay men as well. I have seen this specifically stated from those 2 groups. I'm not sure how other groups feel about it specifically. You can ask players to stop but they will do it again in a matter of weeks. Just last night this occurred from a player I had specifically told NOT to do it. I reported and took screen shots. I'm not sure if anything is ever done.

Crouch should be changed to a dark shadow with NO movement. Push ups should be removed from the game. I am sickened by the implied sexual contact and harassment as is shown by these actions. I challenge to find ANY legal avenue that would not agree that this "sexual harassment" and implied "sexual assault". ZOS: you need to FIX this now. And these warnings are not enough when with 3 lines of code, this could be removed from the game.

WORD: Whatever you do, do NOT have SKYPE even connected to your computer. In a recent personal event, my husband hired a computer consultant who said the stalkers got my IP from Skype. I never answered but by calling they were able to get this information. I have also removed my discord account. I play offline 100% of the time. But this still stop these creeps from sending in game mails and even mails to my forum account. If I send you a hate tell and I am offline I do NOT want a response of any type. You do not have the right to send mails because someone is offline. AND if you do not want tells, go OFFLINE yourself.

Decimus · February 15

forum_gpt wrote: »

show previous quotes

Decimus wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I'm so, so, so disappointed other streamers, even Stream Members, come here to defend the exploiter instead or rejecting what he did.

Well, the problem is that people are being asked to blindly believe that another streamer was exploiting... without any proof of it. How is this any different from all the times someone randomly calls you a "macro cheater" & "exploiter" because you killed them in PvP?

Serious accusations require serious evidence to be taken seriously.

Besides the usual PvP salt, there's very often also a misunderstanding a person might have of a game mechanic or why something that happens, happens. Worst thing about blind accusations is that no one can really even tell what happened or clear potential misunderstandings.

Easiest course of action would be to just report this to ZOS and let them deal with it.

Personally as a streamer what bothers me about this thread is the attempt to control peoples' language usage outside of the game (e.g. on Twitch), that is not ok in my books if mild swear words on another platform are suddenly something worth cancelling people over.

Obviously I'd never condone any exploiting or cheating in any video game.

The claim that there’s “no proof” or that people are being asked to “blindly believe” this is completely false. There is actual evidence of what happened, and funnily enough, one of the streamers who jumped into this thread to defend the behavior has a very recent history of being penalized for doing something similar.

This isn’t just PvP salt or random accusations—something did happen. There’s a pattern here, and people aren’t making things up out of nowhere. It’s interesting that certain individuals are quick to dismiss any criticism as “misunderstandings” or “blind accusations” while conveniently ignoring that some of the most vocal defenders here have already been caught engaging in this kind of behavior before.

Trying to reframe this as people attempting to “control language” or “cancel someone for mild swearing” is also completely misleading. The issue isn’t just words—it’s harassment, exploiting, and then attempting to cover it up. If someone wants to argue that nothing happened, they might want to take a closer look at the company they’re defending.

Ah, see... this is what I mean. Since there's been one other streamer posting on this thread I know whom you're talking about, and I know of the... incident.

This is where the line of "is this exploiting or just using obscure game mechanics" comes into play. I would argue that doing the mega jump to catapult yourself in the air isn't really an exploit any more so than something like let's say doing speed jumps to gain a momentum advantage. Either way, better not do that anymore (for anyone) just to be on the safe side, despite people doing it for years before this... incident.

And that suspension was very unfortunate, probably more so a result of mass reports and people disliking the streamer in question than anything game breaking happening.

...and here we are, at a very similar situation. This is why it's important to know exactly what happened, because anything an average player can't do themselves can be considered an exploit by them and it needs to be explained and investigated before jumping into conclusions.

And people most certainly are making things up out of nowhere. I'm not saying whether it is or isn't the case here, but there are people who you can even normally kill in PvP and they will immediately accuse you of the wildest things, despite all of it happening on stream and there being nothing out of the ordinary, apart from the better gameplay.

Regarding the language... since I know which streamer we're talking about I checked the logs - it seems like chatter in question was banned - how can the chatter be harassed by the streamer? This seems like an interaction that went poorly - harassment is something that happens over a long period of time.

Using swear words and banning a viewer isn't harassment.

An individual spending hours (or even days/weeks/years in some cases) following someone around, making sure they can't play the game normally etc... that'd be harassment.

Someone using swear words daily about someone in a public discord, photoshopping pictures of them, trying to find out where they live and so on... that'd be harassment.

It's very important to know the distinction here.

I appreciate your input but can we please stay on topic?

I am - it was implied that the streamer is "harassing people", I'm merely pointing out how using a few swear words and banning a chatter isn't exactly what anyone should consider "harassment"...

I also pointed out how ball group players that aren't known to be very good at understanding game mechanics might confuse obscure game mechanics like the mega jump or even speed jumping as "exploits", it was a good example & I'm glad to be of assistance here explaining how the game works.

Orbital78 · February 15

<s>The internet is a dangerous place, you should pull out your ethernet cable asap.</s>

You could always try avoiding those players, if emotes cause you personal distress that is a you problem. As a long time gamer, these things are nothing compared to what we used to do to goad each other for fun. It is a game, take a break if you need to.

Complaining about these things on the forum without proof is kind of pointless, I hope anyone seriously worried filed reports with Bethesda and Twitch with actual proof and not hearsay.

From what I gather it seems to highlight more the need to address rush of agony in Cyrodiil, it is cheesed/exploited quite often. I'm sure it will be all over the place with 20-30m pulls during Whitestrakes.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · February 15

Decimus wrote: »

show previous quotes

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I'm so, so, so disappointed other streamers, even Stream Members, come here to defend the exploiter instead or rejecting what he did.

Well, the problem is that people are being asked to blindly believe that another streamer was exploiting... without any proof of it. How is this any different from all the times someone randomly calls you a "macro cheater" & "exploiter" because you killed them in PvP?

Serious accusations require serious evidence to be taken seriously.

Besides the usual PvP salt, there's very often also a misunderstanding a person might have of a game mechanic or why something that happens, happens. Worst thing about blind accusations is that no one can really even tell what happened or clear potential misunderstandings.

Easiest course of action would be to just report this to ZOS and let them deal with it.

Personally as a streamer what bothers me about this thread is the attempt to control peoples' language usage outside of the game (e.g. on Twitch), that is not ok in my books if mild swear words on another platform are suddenly something worth cancelling people over.

Obviously I'd never condone any exploiting or cheating in any video game.

The claim that there’s “no proof” or that people are being asked to “blindly believe” this is completely false. There is actual evidence of what happened, and funnily enough, one of the streamers who jumped into this thread to defend the behavior has a very recent history of being penalized for doing something similar.

This isn’t just PvP salt or random accusations—something did happen. There’s a pattern here, and people aren’t making things up out of nowhere. It’s interesting that certain individuals are quick to dismiss any criticism as “misunderstandings” or “blind accusations” while conveniently ignoring that some of the most vocal defenders here have already been caught engaging in this kind of behavior before.

Trying to reframe this as people attempting to “control language” or “cancel someone for mild swearing” is also completely misleading. The issue isn’t just words—it’s harassment, exploiting, and then attempting to cover it up. If someone wants to argue that nothing happened, they might want to take a closer look at the company they’re defending.

Ah, see... this is what I mean. Since there's been one other streamer posting on this thread I know whom you're talking about, and I know of the... incident.

This is where the line of "is this exploiting or just using obscure game mechanics" comes into play. I would argue that doing the mega jump to catapult yourself in the air isn't really an exploit any more so than something like let's say doing speed jumps to gain a momentum advantage. Either way, better not do that anymore (for anyone) just to be on the safe side, despite people doing it for years before this... incident.

And that suspension was very unfortunate, probably more so a result of mass reports and people disliking the streamer in question than anything game breaking happening.

...and here we are, at a very similar situation. This is why it's important to know exactly what happened, because anything an average player can't do themselves can be considered an exploit by them and it needs to be explained and investigated before jumping into conclusions.

And people most certainly are making things up out of nowhere. I'm not saying whether it is or isn't the case here, but there are people who you can even normally kill in PvP and they will immediately accuse you of the wildest things, despite all of it happening on stream and there being nothing out of the ordinary, apart from the better gameplay.

Regarding the language... since I know which streamer we're talking about I checked the logs - it seems like chatter in question was banned - how can the chatter be harassed by the streamer? This seems like an interaction that went poorly - harassment is something that happens over a long period of time.

Using swear words and banning a viewer isn't harassment.

An individual spending hours (or even days/weeks/years in some cases) following someone around, making sure they can't play the game normally etc... that'd be harassment.

Someone using swear words daily about someone in a public discord, photoshopping pictures of them, trying to find out where they live and so on... that'd be harassment.

It's very important to know the distinction here.

If you think jumping into a keep and showcasing it on stream—something that can cause massive unintended flag flipping advantages and directly impact the campaign score—isn’t an exploit, then I really don’t know what to tell you. That’s not some harmless movement trick; it has clear, game-altering consequences that affect everyone playing in the campaign just like the one abused by the steamer being questioned in this post.

Also, just because a chatter was banned doesn’t mean they weren’t harassed first. Moderating chat isn’t a get-out-of-jail-free card; it’s just an easy way to silence people pointing out something the streamer doesn’t want public. Abusing an exploit, insulting those who call it out, and then banning them doesn’t erase what happened—it just hides the evidence.

This isn’t about people blindly accusing others or failing to understand obscure mechanics. It’s about someone on an official platform knowingly using a broken mechanic for an advantage, responding with hostility when questioned, and then covering it up. That’s the actual issue here.

Kittytravel · February 15

Honestly I think this entire thread highlights a more pertinent problem with the game being 18+ than it does with a streamers behavior.

It's odd that, no matter where you go, you cannot find an actual 'ban-list' of words or phrases that ZOS considers 'over the line' with exception to a singular word, and I'm sure every adult here knows which word that is.

It's more frustrating that, for both players and stream team members, ZOS will not take a public stance on "Hello, this is an 18+ game. Below you'll find a VERY short list of absolutely unacceptable words in our game. However as this is an 18+ game anything not on this list is not a reportable behavior and you will simply have to accept the consequences of playing in a MMORPG that is rated 18+."

This has been a long time problem mind you; it feels like when the games rating was forcibly changed with the introduction of the Justice System and the murder of innocents the mod team's purpose was never reviewed on what is/isn't allowed. I've seen people play for long periods of time with sexual character names and never bat an eye, and then one day they get banned. Yes it's technically against TOS but when I see someone walking around with the name "Lusty-Argonian-Hole" or "Lifts-His-Tail" I don't even have a slight wince of surprise; these are themes in the game with stories in the game about these themes. Hell Lifts-Her-Tail has been in the game since 2015! Incredible that it can be allowed in the game but people can't have the name "Takes-Large-Men" the moment a mod decides it's too over the line for their adult focused audience.

So yes, while the streamers behavior of using exploits are unacceptable I'd argue ZOS's cloudy and uncertain stance on what words, phrases, names, etc are unacceptable is a far more prominent problem in his choice of name-calling on his Stream. Twitch is also in the same boat with what is and isn't acceptable when it comes to 18+ streams.

Stamicka · February 15

forum_gpt wrote: »

show previous quotes

Stamicka wrote: »

I have read the thread and now I’ve seen the video. You guys are using the word “exploiting” pretty loosely. We all know ESO doesn’t work properly a lot of the time, especially when it comes to location desyncs. Calling this an exploit is a stretch… you should really save that word for people using software to manipulate the game’s memory or those who purposefully abuse something major.

Which video did you see? The deleted VOD? Or the one I submitted to ZOS?

Do you think you’re the only person that watched who can save stuff?

Dragonnord wrote: »

So you think the only way to exploit is using sofware to manipulate? God!

Let me add some bold since there seems to be some reading difficulties

Stamicka wrote: »

you should really save that word (exploit) for people using software to manipulate the game’s memory or those who purposefully abuse something major.

Abusing something major is exploiting too, but this isn’t major. ESO used to let you use Ambush to get into keeps and knock people off of Sejanus top floor with certain abilities. They left that in the game for so long that I didn’t even see it as an exploit. It’s not always clear whether or not something was designed a certain way by intent.

Decimus · February 15

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

show previous quotes

Decimus wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I'm so, so, so disappointed other streamers, even Stream Members, come here to defend the exploiter instead or rejecting what he did.

Well, the problem is that people are being asked to blindly believe that another streamer was exploiting... without any proof of it. How is this any different from all the times someone randomly calls you a "macro cheater" & "exploiter" because you killed them in PvP?

Serious accusations require serious evidence to be taken seriously.

Besides the usual PvP salt, there's very often also a misunderstanding a person might have of a game mechanic or why something that happens, happens. Worst thing about blind accusations is that no one can really even tell what happened or clear potential misunderstandings.

Easiest course of action would be to just report this to ZOS and let them deal with it.

Personally as a streamer what bothers me about this thread is the attempt to control peoples' language usage outside of the game (e.g. on Twitch), that is not ok in my books if mild swear words on another platform are suddenly something worth cancelling people over.

Obviously I'd never condone any exploiting or cheating in any video game.

The claim that there’s “no proof” or that people are being asked to “blindly believe” this is completely false. There is actual evidence of what happened, and funnily enough, one of the streamers who jumped into this thread to defend the behavior has a very recent history of being penalized for doing something similar.

This isn’t just PvP salt or random accusations—something did happen. There’s a pattern here, and people aren’t making things up out of nowhere. It’s interesting that certain individuals are quick to dismiss any criticism as “misunderstandings” or “blind accusations” while conveniently ignoring that some of the most vocal defenders here have already been caught engaging in this kind of behavior before.

Trying to reframe this as people attempting to “control language” or “cancel someone for mild swearing” is also completely misleading. The issue isn’t just words—it’s harassment, exploiting, and then attempting to cover it up. If someone wants to argue that nothing happened, they might want to take a closer look at the company they’re defending.

Ah, see... this is what I mean. Since there's been one other streamer posting on this thread I know whom you're talking about, and I know of the... incident.

This is where the line of "is this exploiting or just using obscure game mechanics" comes into play. I would argue that doing the mega jump to catapult yourself in the air isn't really an exploit any more so than something like let's say doing speed jumps to gain a momentum advantage. Either way, better not do that anymore (for anyone) just to be on the safe side, despite people doing it for years before this... incident.

And that suspension was very unfortunate, probably more so a result of mass reports and people disliking the streamer in question than anything game breaking happening.

...and here we are, at a very similar situation. This is why it's important to know exactly what happened, because anything an average player can't do themselves can be considered an exploit by them and it needs to be explained and investigated before jumping into conclusions.

And people most certainly are making things up out of nowhere. I'm not saying whether it is or isn't the case here, but there are people who you can even normally kill in PvP and they will immediately accuse you of the wildest things, despite all of it happening on stream and there being nothing out of the ordinary, apart from the better gameplay.

Regarding the language... since I know which streamer we're talking about I checked the logs - it seems like chatter in question was banned - how can the chatter be harassed by the streamer? This seems like an interaction that went poorly - harassment is something that happens over a long period of time.

Using swear words and banning a viewer isn't harassment.

An individual spending hours (or even days/weeks/years in some cases) following someone around, making sure they can't play the game normally etc... that'd be harassment.

Someone using swear words daily about someone in a public discord, photoshopping pictures of them, trying to find out where they live and so on... that'd be harassment.

It's very important to know the distinction here.

If you think jumping into a keep and showcasing it on stream—something that can cause massive unintended flag flipping advantages and directly impact the campaign score—isn’t an exploit, then I really don’t know what to tell you. That’s not some harmless movement trick; it has clear, game-altering consequences that affect everyone playing in the campaign just like the one abused by the steamer being questioned in this post.

Also, just because a chatter was banned doesn’t mean they weren’t harassed first. Moderating chat isn’t a get-out-of-jail-free card; it’s just an easy way to silence people pointing out something the streamer doesn’t want public. Abusing an exploit, insulting those who call it out, and then banning them doesn’t erase what happened—it just hides the evidence.

This isn’t about people blindly accusing others or failing to understand obscure mechanics. It’s about someone on an official platform knowingly using a broken mechanic for an advantage, responding with hostility when questioned, and then covering it up. That’s the actual issue here.

The knowledge of how to do the jump has been out there for years and years, yet I would bet all my in game gold less than 0,1% of ESO's population is actually capable of doing it. The people utilizing that trick were usually very experienced solo PvPers, you won't find entire zergs jumping into keeps with that.

Either way, there is a precedent of it being a bannable offense now so as I said, better not do it to be on the safe side.

Also, you want to know what's ironic? The thing the streamer is accused of "abusing" is something most ball groups are doing. Ever been pulled from a mile away by the set in question? It's because of the very same functionality and there's multiple ways to make it pull long distances.

This is due to the design of the set, not because of an exploit - an easy fix for ZOS would be to simply have it pull to a static location instead of the player and people can stop trying to cancel each other.

Also if you are being harassed on a streamer's chat, you can leave at any point. Based on my experience it's usually the other way around though; people disliking the streamer show up in chat to harass streamer and then play victim afterwards when they get banned and can't harass the streamer anymore on their chat.

You know, harass as in actively, over a longer period of time, causing a discomfort to someone else - not snap at someone, use some swear words, ban them and then move on.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · February 15

Decimus wrote: »

show previous quotes

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I'm so, so, so disappointed other streamers, even Stream Members, come here to defend the exploiter instead or rejecting what he did.

Well, the problem is that people are being asked to blindly believe that another streamer was exploiting... without any proof of it. How is this any different from all the times someone randomly calls you a "macro cheater" & "exploiter" because you killed them in PvP?

Serious accusations require serious evidence to be taken seriously.

Besides the usual PvP salt, there's very often also a misunderstanding a person might have of a game mechanic or why something that happens, happens. Worst thing about blind accusations is that no one can really even tell what happened or clear potential misunderstandings.

Easiest course of action would be to just report this to ZOS and let them deal with it.

Personally as a streamer what bothers me about this thread is the attempt to control peoples' language usage outside of the game (e.g. on Twitch), that is not ok in my books if mild swear words on another platform are suddenly something worth cancelling people over.

Obviously I'd never condone any exploiting or cheating in any video game.

The claim that there’s “no proof” or that people are being asked to “blindly believe” this is completely false. There is actual evidence of what happened, and funnily enough, one of the streamers who jumped into this thread to defend the behavior has a very recent history of being penalized for doing something similar.

This isn’t just PvP salt or random accusations—something did happen. There’s a pattern here, and people aren’t making things up out of nowhere. It’s interesting that certain individuals are quick to dismiss any criticism as “misunderstandings” or “blind accusations” while conveniently ignoring that some of the most vocal defenders here have already been caught engaging in this kind of behavior before.

Trying to reframe this as people attempting to “control language” or “cancel someone for mild swearing” is also completely misleading. The issue isn’t just words—it’s harassment, exploiting, and then attempting to cover it up. If someone wants to argue that nothing happened, they might want to take a closer look at the company they’re defending.

Ah, see... this is what I mean. Since there's been one other streamer posting on this thread I know whom you're talking about, and I know of the... incident.

This is where the line of "is this exploiting or just using obscure game mechanics" comes into play. I would argue that doing the mega jump to catapult yourself in the air isn't really an exploit any more so than something like let's say doing speed jumps to gain a momentum advantage. Either way, better not do that anymore (for anyone) just to be on the safe side, despite people doing it for years before this... incident.

And that suspension was very unfortunate, probably more so a result of mass reports and people disliking the streamer in question than anything game breaking happening.

...and here we are, at a very similar situation. This is why it's important to know exactly what happened, because anything an average player can't do themselves can be considered an exploit by them and it needs to be explained and investigated before jumping into conclusions.

And people most certainly are making things up out of nowhere. I'm not saying whether it is or isn't the case here, but there are people who you can even normally kill in PvP and they will immediately accuse you of the wildest things, despite all of it happening on stream and there being nothing out of the ordinary, apart from the better gameplay.

Regarding the language... since I know which streamer we're talking about I checked the logs - it seems like chatter in question was banned - how can the chatter be harassed by the streamer? This seems like an interaction that went poorly - harassment is something that happens over a long period of time.

Using swear words and banning a viewer isn't harassment.

An individual spending hours (or even days/weeks/years in some cases) following someone around, making sure they can't play the game normally etc... that'd be harassment.

Someone using swear words daily about someone in a public discord, photoshopping pictures of them, trying to find out where they live and so on... that'd be harassment.

It's very important to know the distinction here.

If you think jumping into a keep and showcasing it on stream—something that can cause massive unintended flag flipping advantages and directly impact the campaign score—isn’t an exploit, then I really don’t know what to tell you. That’s not some harmless movement trick; it has clear, game-altering consequences that affect everyone playing in the campaign just like the one abused by the steamer being questioned in this post.

Also, just because a chatter was banned doesn’t mean they weren’t harassed first. Moderating chat isn’t a get-out-of-jail-free card; it’s just an easy way to silence people pointing out something the streamer doesn’t want public. Abusing an exploit, insulting those who call it out, and then banning them doesn’t erase what happened—it just hides the evidence.

This isn’t about people blindly accusing others or failing to understand obscure mechanics. It’s about someone on an official platform knowingly using a broken mechanic for an advantage, responding with hostility when questioned, and then covering it up. That’s the actual issue here.

The knowledge of how to do the jump has been out there for years and years, yet I would bet all my in game gold less than 0,1% of ESO's population is actually capable of doing it. The people utilizing that trick were usually very experienced solo PvPers, you won't find entire zergs jumping into keeps with that.

Either way, there is a precedent of it being a bannable offense now so as I said, better not do it to be on the safe side.

Also, you want to know what's ironic? The thing the streamer is accused of "abusing" is something most ball groups are doing. Ever been pulled from a mile away by the set in question? It's because of the very same functionality and there's multiple ways to make it pull long distances.

This is due to the design of the set, not because of an exploit - an easy fix for ZOS would be to simply have it pull to a static location instead of the player and people can stop trying to cancel each other.

Also if you are being harassed on a streamer's chat, you can leave at any point. Based on my experience it's usually the other way around though; people disliking the streamer show up in chat to harass streamer and then play victim afterwards when they get banned and can't harass the streamer anymore on their chat.

You know, harass as in actively, over a longer period of time, causing a discomfort to someone else - not snap at someone, use some swear words, ban them and then move on.

The knowledge of an exploit should remain hidden and reported, not actively abused—especially by streamers. Just because something has existed for years doesn’t make it legitimate. There were precedents of players getting penalized for jumping into keeps without using the intended siege mechanics years before certain streamers started abusing it. The fact that ZOS eventually patched it should be a pretty obvious clue that it was never intended in the first place.

As for ball groups pulling from long distances, that typically happens because of server lag rather than intentional abuse. Yes, it can be exploited, but most of the time, it’s just the game struggling to keep up. That being said, if you see someone deliberately abusing it, I absolutely agree that they should be reported.

However, abusing desync mechanics on purpose to pull people through walls and eject them from keeps without being knocked out or killed is a completely different story. This isn’t just a bad server tick—it’s a deliberate attempt to break the game’s intended mechanics for an unfair advantage. If someone is actively trying to make this happen, then yes, it is without a doubt an exploit just like jumping into a keep.

TheLoreMaster420 · February 15

This is the video of the streamer NOT being stream sniped, attempting to pull a group through solid objects which crashes people from the game and is a known exploit, and then harassing viewers afterward, telling them to "suck my d***" for kindly pointing out that he should avoid doing that as it is an exploit. This would result in an immediate forum ban, but is instead publicized as a stream team member.

https://youtu.be/Li73-at126Q

spartaxoxo · February 15

Stamicka wrote: »

I have read the thread and now I’ve seen the video. You guys are using the word “exploiting” pretty loosely. We all know ESO doesn’t work properly a lot of the time, especially when it comes to location desyncs. Calling this an exploit is a stretch… you should really save that word for people using software to manipulate the game’s memory or those who purposefully abuse something major.

An exploit is taking advantage of unintended bugs and mechs in a game to gain an unfair advantage though?

If you're using software that's just cheating.

Decimus · February 15

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

show previous quotes

Decimus wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I'm so, so, so disappointed other streamers, even Stream Members, come here to defend the exploiter instead or rejecting what he did.

Well, the problem is that people are being asked to blindly believe that another streamer was exploiting... without any proof of it. How is this any different from all the times someone randomly calls you a "macro cheater" & "exploiter" because you killed them in PvP?

Serious accusations require serious evidence to be taken seriously.

Besides the usual PvP salt, there's very often also a misunderstanding a person might have of a game mechanic or why something that happens, happens. Worst thing about blind accusations is that no one can really even tell what happened or clear potential misunderstandings.

Easiest course of action would be to just report this to ZOS and let them deal with it.

Personally as a streamer what bothers me about this thread is the attempt to control peoples' language usage outside of the game (e.g. on Twitch), that is not ok in my books if mild swear words on another platform are suddenly something worth cancelling people over.

Obviously I'd never condone any exploiting or cheating in any video game.

The claim that there’s “no proof” or that people are being asked to “blindly believe” this is completely false. There is actual evidence of what happened, and funnily enough, one of the streamers who jumped into this thread to defend the behavior has a very recent history of being penalized for doing something similar.

This isn’t just PvP salt or random accusations—something did happen. There’s a pattern here, and people aren’t making things up out of nowhere. It’s interesting that certain individuals are quick to dismiss any criticism as “misunderstandings” or “blind accusations” while conveniently ignoring that some of the most vocal defenders here have already been caught engaging in this kind of behavior before.

Trying to reframe this as people attempting to “control language” or “cancel someone for mild swearing” is also completely misleading. The issue isn’t just words—it’s harassment, exploiting, and then attempting to cover it up. If someone wants to argue that nothing happened, they might want to take a closer look at the company they’re defending.

Ah, see... this is what I mean. Since there's been one other streamer posting on this thread I know whom you're talking about, and I know of the... incident.

This is where the line of "is this exploiting or just using obscure game mechanics" comes into play. I would argue that doing the mega jump to catapult yourself in the air isn't really an exploit any more so than something like let's say doing speed jumps to gain a momentum advantage. Either way, better not do that anymore (for anyone) just to be on the safe side, despite people doing it for years before this... incident.

And that suspension was very unfortunate, probably more so a result of mass reports and people disliking the streamer in question than anything game breaking happening.

...and here we are, at a very similar situation. This is why it's important to know exactly what happened, because anything an average player can't do themselves can be considered an exploit by them and it needs to be explained and investigated before jumping into conclusions.

And people most certainly are making things up out of nowhere. I'm not saying whether it is or isn't the case here, but there are people who you can even normally kill in PvP and they will immediately accuse you of the wildest things, despite all of it happening on stream and there being nothing out of the ordinary, apart from the better gameplay.

Regarding the language... since I know which streamer we're talking about I checked the logs - it seems like chatter in question was banned - how can the chatter be harassed by the streamer? This seems like an interaction that went poorly - harassment is something that happens over a long period of time.

Using swear words and banning a viewer isn't harassment.

An individual spending hours (or even days/weeks/years in some cases) following someone around, making sure they can't play the game normally etc... that'd be harassment.

Someone using swear words daily about someone in a public discord, photoshopping pictures of them, trying to find out where they live and so on... that'd be harassment.

It's very important to know the distinction here.

If you think jumping into a keep and showcasing it on stream—something that can cause massive unintended flag flipping advantages and directly impact the campaign score—isn’t an exploit, then I really don’t know what to tell you. That’s not some harmless movement trick; it has clear, game-altering consequences that affect everyone playing in the campaign just like the one abused by the steamer being questioned in this post.

Also, just because a chatter was banned doesn’t mean they weren’t harassed first. Moderating chat isn’t a get-out-of-jail-free card; it’s just an easy way to silence people pointing out something the streamer doesn’t want public. Abusing an exploit, insulting those who call it out, and then banning them doesn’t erase what happened—it just hides the evidence.

This isn’t about people blindly accusing others or failing to understand obscure mechanics. It’s about someone on an official platform knowingly using a broken mechanic for an advantage, responding with hostility when questioned, and then covering it up. That’s the actual issue here.

The knowledge of how to do the jump has been out there for years and years, yet I would bet all my in game gold less than 0,1% of ESO's population is actually capable of doing it. The people utilizing that trick were usually very experienced solo PvPers, you won't find entire zergs jumping into keeps with that.

Either way, there is a precedent of it being a bannable offense now so as I said, better not do it to be on the safe side.

Also, you want to know what's ironic? The thing the streamer is accused of "abusing" is something most ball groups are doing. Ever been pulled from a mile away by the set in question? It's because of the very same functionality and there's multiple ways to make it pull long distances.

This is due to the design of the set, not because of an exploit - an easy fix for ZOS would be to simply have it pull to a static location instead of the player and people can stop trying to cancel each other.

Also if you are being harassed on a streamer's chat, you can leave at any point. Based on my experience it's usually the other way around though; people disliking the streamer show up in chat to harass streamer and then play victim afterwards when they get banned and can't harass the streamer anymore on their chat.

You know, harass as in actively, over a longer period of time, causing a discomfort to someone else - not snap at someone, use some swear words, ban them and then move on.

The knowledge of an exploit should remain hidden and reported, not actively abused—especially by streamers. Just because something has existed for years doesn’t make it legitimate. There were precedents of players getting penalized for jumping into keeps without using the intended siege mechanics years before certain streamers started abusing it. The fact that ZOS eventually patched it should be a pretty obvious clue that it was never intended in the first place.

When you can exercise common sense and think "oh, ok this is probably an exploit" then yes - if it's something that actually ruins the game and makes it unplayable for other people because something isn't working as intended... it's probably an exploit.

I fail to see how a streamer utilizing their game knowledge and jumping into a keep to have a good 1vX fight for his/her viewers and promoting the game in a positive way is "ruining the game" - I'm not a Cyrodiil player, but I've watched people do that for years. Similarly, should I stop taking advantage of things like speed jumps that make the game more fun and skill based without ruining it for others? Things that have existed in the game since the beginning and that other experienced players also know how to utilize?

What is an exploit then? Well, let's say utilizing that certain set to pull people into death barriers in Imperial City or BGs - this actually made the game unfun for others and had a negative impact, and people abusing that were banned. Safeguards were placed around death barriers to prevent that from happening again.

I recently reported two "exploits" (sets not working as intended) because one of them in particular has/had the potential to ruin the game due to people literally getting one shot by 3-6x procs from the same set landing at the same time.

This is an actual exploit that has an actual impact, I'd recommend just block tapping the RoA pull after you see a gap close.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

As for ball groups pulling from long distances, that typically happens because of server lag rather than intentional abuse. Yes, it can be exploited, but most of the time, it’s just the game struggling to keep up. That being said, if you see someone deliberately abusing it, I absolutely agree that they should be reported.

However, abusing desync mechanics on purpose to pull people through walls and eject them from keeps without being knocked out or killed is a completely different story. This isn’t just a bad server tick—it’s a deliberate attempt to break the game’s intended mechanics for an unfair advantage. If someone is actively trying to make this happen, then yes, it is without a doubt an exploit just like jumping into a keep.

Why do you think so? I can also just jump off a keep & pull someone with a DK chain, they'll be outside of the keep & there'll be one less ball group person chasing some solo player. The set in question allows the same, just in AoE format - your problem is with the set design and functionality here & I do agree with a lot of the issues people have with it, it should pull to a static location instead.

IIILaaLaaIII · February 15

As you can all now see it was clearly intentional use of the exploit.
I raised it as he was streaming to a decent number of the players of the game, essentially teaching them how to do it. I was trying to limit the use and demonstration of it.

Major_Toughness · February 15

TheLoreMaster420 wrote: »

This is the video of the streamer NOT being stream sniped, attempting to pull a group through solid objects which crashes people from the game and is a known exploit, and then harassing viewers afterward, telling them to "suck my d***" for kindly pointing out that he should avoid doing that as it is an exploit. This would result in an immediate forum ban, but is instead publicized as a stream team member.

https://youtu.be/Li73-at126Q

Pulling people through solid objects does not cause people to crash.
If you believe it does, please provide evidence.

Also, people have been using Meteor and mages rune for years which gets people stuck in walls/ceilings.
Mages rune you can even purposefully place it in a doorway to get people stuck in the doorframe.
All of those people should be banned too for exploiting.
Report anyone using meteor & mages rune.

MeridiaFavorsMe · February 15

I watched that video posted by loremaster. I was shocked by the language. Is this person actually a stream team member?

spartaxoxo · February 15

darvaria wrote: »

. If I send you a hate tell and I am offline I do NOT want a response of any type. You do not have the right to send mails because someone is offline. AND if you do not want tells, go OFFLINE yourself.

If you send someone a hate tell, they absolutely have a right to respond. Don't send hate tells. Depending on what you're saying, that is in and of itself against the rules.

Decimus · February 15

IIILaaLaaIII wrote: »

As you can all now see it was clearly intentional use of the exploit.
I raised it as he was streaming to a decent number of the players of the game, essentially teaching them how to do it. I was trying to limit the use and demonstration of it.

Having watched the video... this is not an exploit, it's literally how the set works - your problem is with the way the set's functionality as it pulls opponents to the player after the delay, regardless of where the player is. You do not even need this specific NB ability to have this to happen, you can just play a speed capped character or utilize something like Ball of Lightning, arcanist portal, mist form, Bursting Wines on warden etc.

Is this a fun experience? No, it isn't - not anymore so than being run over by a ball group.

I'd say both need to be resolved, fortunately this one is quite simple: set just needs to pull to a static location instead of the player.

Exactly as I said earlier, a lot of these "exploiter" accusations stem either from PvP tilt or from misunderstanding of game mechanics.

sulima · February 15

TheLoreMaster420 wrote: »

This is the video of the streamer NOT being stream sniped, attempting to pull a group through solid objects which crashes people from the game and is a known exploit, and then harassing viewers afterward, telling them to "suck my d***" for kindly pointing out that he should avoid doing that as it is an exploit. This would result in an immediate forum ban, but is instead publicized as a stream team member.

https://youtu.be/Li73-at126Q

Cancelling my monthly sub, is this person actually an ambassador for ESO? Can’t we do better?

forum_gpt · February 15

TheLoreMaster420 wrote: »

This is the video of the streamer NOT being stream sniped, attempting to pull a group through solid objects which crashes people from the game and is a known exploit, and then harassing viewers afterward, telling them to "suck my d***" for kindly pointing out that he should avoid doing that as it is an exploit. This would result in an immediate forum ban, but is instead publicized as a stream team member.

https://youtu.be/Li73-at126Q

Yeah there it is, this is just part of it, I've seen the whole VOD he goes crazy.

Daniel_Sinclaire · February 15

I remember seeing a thread long ago, it went along the lines of a ZoS employee saying streamers are allowed to exploit because they bring in viewers or something

Teeba_Shei · February 15

TheLoreMaster420 wrote: »

This is the video of the streamer NOT being stream sniped, attempting to pull a group through solid objects which crashes people from the game and is a known exploit, and then harassing viewers afterward, telling them to "suck my d***" for kindly pointing out that he should avoid doing that as it is an exploit. This would result in an immediate forum ban, but is instead publicized as a stream team member.

https://youtu.be/Li73-at126Q

This is absolute gross behavior. I have to believe this person isn't a stream team member because if they were ZOS would've already acted on it.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · February 15

Decimus wrote: »

show previous quotes

IIILaaLaaIII wrote: »

As you can all now see it was clearly intentional use of the exploit.
I raised it as he was streaming to a decent number of the players of the game, essentially teaching them how to do it. I was trying to limit the use and demonstration of it.

Having watched the video... this is not an exploit, it's literally how the set works - your problem is with the way the set's functionality as it pulls opponents to the player after the delay, regardless of where the player is. You do not even need this specific NB ability to have this to happen, you can just play a speed capped character or utilize something like Ball of Lightning, arcanist portal, mist form, Bursting Wines on warden etc.

Is this a fun experience? No, it isn't - not anymore so than being run over by a ball group.

I'd say both need to be resolved, fortunately this one is quite simple: set just needs to pull to a static location instead of the player.

Exactly as I said earlier, a lot of these "exploiter" accusations stem either from PvP tilt or from misunderstanding of game mechanics.

Ah yes, because pulling people through walls and into structures, potentially crashing them, or pulling them out of keeps where they should be safe is just how the set works and totally intended. Brilliant analysis.

This is obviously an exploit—the fact that it can be repeatedly abused to ignore game mechanics and force unnatural interactions proves that. Sets are designed to function within the intended constraints of the game world, not to bypass physical barriers and allow players to be forcibly moved into areas they should never reach.

Sure, the set might need a fix, but actively abusing its broken functionality instead of reporting it is what makes it an exploit. The idea that this is just a misunderstanding of mechanics is laughable—it’s a blatant abuse of unintended interactions.

Decimus · February 15

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

show previous quotes

Decimus wrote: »

IIILaaLaaIII wrote: »

As you can all now see it was clearly intentional use of the exploit.
I raised it as he was streaming to a decent number of the players of the game, essentially teaching them how to do it. I was trying to limit the use and demonstration of it.

Having watched the video... this is not an exploit, it's literally how the set works - your problem is with the way the set's functionality as it pulls opponents to the player after the delay, regardless of where the player is. You do not even need this specific NB ability to have this to happen, you can just play a speed capped character or utilize something like Ball of Lightning, arcanist portal, mist form, Bursting Wines on warden etc.

Is this a fun experience? No, it isn't - not anymore so than being run over by a ball group.

I'd say both need to be resolved, fortunately this one is quite simple: set just needs to pull to a static location instead of the player.

Exactly as I said earlier, a lot of these "exploiter" accusations stem either from PvP tilt or from misunderstanding of game mechanics.

Ah yes, because pulling people through walls and into structures, potentially crashing them, or pulling them out of keeps where they should be safe is just how the set works and totally intended. Brilliant analysis.

This is obviously an exploit—the fact that it can be repeatedly abused to ignore game mechanics and force unnatural interactions proves that. Sets are designed to function within the intended constraints of the game world, not to bypass physical barriers and allow players to be forcibly moved into areas they should never reach.

Sure, the set might need a fix, but actively abusing its broken functionality instead of reporting it is what makes it an exploit. The idea that this is just a misunderstanding of mechanics is laughable—it’s a blatant abuse of unintended interactions.

The set pulls everyone who was within 12m to you after a delay, what is not working as intended? I'd recommend not stacking that close to the ball group running around or block tapping after you see the gap close - I very rarely get pulled by this set when I PvP.

Also there is nothing unnatural about pulling people out of keeps... this can be done manually with in game abilities as well like I mentioned earlier - there's even an AoE one I forgot (pull DW scribe) which has a travel time you can utilize to make it pull even further with abovementioned tricks, but if you just want to pull one person outside the keep the DK chain is undodgeable - pretty sure I've done that myself in the past in Cyrodiil to troll people.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · February 15

Decimus wrote: »

show previous quotes

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

IIILaaLaaIII wrote: »

As you can all now see it was clearly intentional use of the exploit.
I raised it as he was streaming to a decent number of the players of the game, essentially teaching them how to do it. I was trying to limit the use and demonstration of it.

Having watched the video... this is not an exploit, it's literally how the set works - your problem is with the way the set's functionality as it pulls opponents to the player after the delay, regardless of where the player is. You do not even need this specific NB ability to have this to happen, you can just play a speed capped character or utilize something like Ball of Lightning, arcanist portal, mist form, Bursting Wines on warden etc.

Is this a fun experience? No, it isn't - not anymore so than being run over by a ball group.

I'd say both need to be resolved, fortunately this one is quite simple: set just needs to pull to a static location instead of the player.

Exactly as I said earlier, a lot of these "exploiter" accusations stem either from PvP tilt or from misunderstanding of game mechanics.

Ah yes, because pulling people through walls and into structures, potentially crashing them, or pulling them out of keeps where they should be safe is just how the set works and totally intended. Brilliant analysis.

This is obviously an exploit—the fact that it can be repeatedly abused to ignore game mechanics and force unnatural interactions proves that. Sets are designed to function within the intended constraints of the game world, not to bypass physical barriers and allow players to be forcibly moved into areas they should never reach.

Sure, the set might need a fix, but actively abusing its broken functionality instead of reporting it is what makes it an exploit. The idea that this is just a misunderstanding of mechanics is laughable—it’s a blatant abuse of unintended interactions.

The set pulls everyone who was within 12m to you after a delay, what is not working as intended? I'd recommend not stacking that close to the ball group running around or block tapping after you see the gap close - I very rarely get pulled by this set when I PvP.

Also there is nothing unnatural about pulling people out of keeps... this can be done manually with in game abilities as well like I mentioned earlier - there's even an AoE one I forgot (pull DW scribe) which has a travel time you can utilize to make it pull even further with abovementioned tricks, but if you just want to pull one person outside the keep the DK chain is undodgeable - pretty sure I've done that myself in the past in Cyrodiil to troll people.

If you genuinely believe that pulling someone through a wall and out of a keep is just normal gameplay, then there’s really not much else to say. Some arguments just speak for themselves. Not worth continuing this discussion.

Decimus · February 16

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

show previous quotes

Decimus wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

IIILaaLaaIII wrote: »

As you can all now see it was clearly intentional use of the exploit.
I raised it as he was streaming to a decent number of the players of the game, essentially teaching them how to do it. I was trying to limit the use and demonstration of it.

Having watched the video... this is not an exploit, it's literally how the set works - your problem is with the way the set's functionality as it pulls opponents to the player after the delay, regardless of where the player is. You do not even need this specific NB ability to have this to happen, you can just play a speed capped character or utilize something like Ball of Lightning, arcanist portal, mist form, Bursting Wines on warden etc.

Is this a fun experience? No, it isn't - not anymore so than being run over by a ball group.

I'd say both need to be resolved, fortunately this one is quite simple: set just needs to pull to a static location instead of the player.

Exactly as I said earlier, a lot of these "exploiter" accusations stem either from PvP tilt or from misunderstanding of game mechanics.

Ah yes, because pulling people through walls and into structures, potentially crashing them, or pulling them out of keeps where they should be safe is just how the set works and totally intended. Brilliant analysis.

This is obviously an exploit—the fact that it can be repeatedly abused to ignore game mechanics and force unnatural interactions proves that. Sets are designed to function within the intended constraints of the game world, not to bypass physical barriers and allow players to be forcibly moved into areas they should never reach.

Sure, the set might need a fix, but actively abusing its broken functionality instead of reporting it is what makes it an exploit. The idea that this is just a misunderstanding of mechanics is laughable—it’s a blatant abuse of unintended interactions.

The set pulls everyone who was within 12m to you after a delay, what is not working as intended? I'd recommend not stacking that close to the ball group running around or block tapping after you see the gap close - I very rarely get pulled by this set when I PvP.

Also there is nothing unnatural about pulling people out of keeps... this can be done manually with in game abilities as well like I mentioned earlier - there's even an AoE one I forgot (pull DW scribe) which has a travel time you can utilize to make it pull even further with abovementioned tricks, but if you just want to pull one person outside the keep the DK chain is undodgeable - pretty sure I've done that myself in the past in Cyrodiil to troll people.

If you genuinely believe that pulling someone through a wall and out of a keep is just normal gameplay, then there’s really not much else to say. Some arguments just speak for themselves. Not worth continuing this discussion.

It is, because the game literally has no alternatives - you cannot implement a collision check based on player position when there's a second or two of positional desync in the game anyway - this is also the cause behind "target out of range" when you're right next to someone & arcanist beams and other cone AoEs requiring you to lead the target to have any hope of landing them, why dawnbreakers miss point blank range etc.

The set is working exactly as intended, based on the limitations set on it by the game. Is it good design or not is a different question.

This issue would be significantly alleviated by ball groups not causing the lag and large part of the positional desyncing, which could allow a thing such as collision check to be a feasible solution. In absence of that however, the set should pull people to a static location as a good workaround to avoid these types of incidents caused by the set working exactly as intended at the moment.

Dragonnord · February 16

I'm filling a report sending every single clip, time stamped, where he calls players FU**ING R*T*RDS and DOG SH*T R*T*RDS.

Orbital78 · February 16

There have been posts about rush of agony quite a few times, at this point I assume ZoS considers it a feature now. I haven't seen them post anywhere that it is not working as intended. A simple monster only flag would nullify the issue, but they did that with heavy attack builds and still couldn't manage to fix it without gutting the passives instead.

Nomadic_Atmoran · February 16

Decimus wrote: »

show previous quotes

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

IIILaaLaaIII wrote: »

As you can all now see it was clearly intentional use of the exploit.
I raised it as he was streaming to a decent number of the players of the game, essentially teaching them how to do it. I was trying to limit the use and demonstration of it.

Having watched the video... this is not an exploit, it's literally how the set works - your problem is with the way the set's functionality as it pulls opponents to the player after the delay, regardless of where the player is. You do not even need this specific NB ability to have this to happen, you can just play a speed capped character or utilize something like Ball of Lightning, arcanist portal, mist form, Bursting Wines on warden etc.

Is this a fun experience? No, it isn't - not anymore so than being run over by a ball group.

I'd say both need to be resolved, fortunately this one is quite simple: set just needs to pull to a static location instead of the player.

Exactly as I said earlier, a lot of these "exploiter" accusations stem either from PvP tilt or from misunderstanding of game mechanics.

Ah yes, because pulling people through walls and into structures, potentially crashing them, or pulling them out of keeps where they should be safe is just how the set works and totally intended. Brilliant analysis.

This is obviously an exploit—the fact that it can be repeatedly abused to ignore game mechanics and force unnatural interactions proves that. Sets are designed to function within the intended constraints of the game world, not to bypass physical barriers and allow players to be forcibly moved into areas they should never reach.

Sure, the set might need a fix, but actively abusing its broken functionality instead of reporting it is what makes it an exploit. The idea that this is just a misunderstanding of mechanics is laughable—it’s a blatant abuse of unintended interactions.

The set pulls everyone who was within 12m to you after a delay, what is not working as intended? I'd recommend not stacking that close to the ball group running around or block tapping after you see the gap close - I very rarely get pulled by this set when I PvP.

Also there is nothing unnatural about pulling people out of keeps... this can be done manually with in game abilities as well like I mentioned earlier - there's even an AoE one I forgot (pull DW scribe) which has a travel time you can utilize to make it pull even further with abovementioned tricks, but if you just want to pull one person outside the keep the DK chain is undodgeable - pretty sure I've done that myself in the past in Cyrodiil to troll people.

If you genuinely believe that pulling someone through a wall and out of a keep is just normal gameplay, then there’s really not much else to say. Some arguments just speak for themselves. Not worth continuing this discussion.

It is, because the game literally has no alternatives - you cannot implement a collision check based on player position when there's a second or two of positional desync in the game anyway - this is also the cause behind "target out of range" when you're right next to someone & arcanist beams and other cone AoEs requiring you to lead the target to have any hope of landing them, why dawnbreakers miss point blank range etc.

The set is working exactly as intended, based on the limitations set on it by the game. Is it good design or not is a different question.

This issue would be significantly alleviated by ball groups not causing the lag and large part of the positional desyncing, which could allow a thing such as collision check to be a feasible solution. In absence of that however, the set should pull people to a static location as a good workaround to avoid these types of incidents caused by the set working exactly as intended at the moment.

The video is pretty clear. The streamer knows where the pillar is and intentionally steps behind it to pull. This isn't a case of accidently doing something due to desync. You're either looking for someone to get upset enough with you to cross a line here on the forums and get themselves tapped by the moderators or you're defending something that you're guilty of doing in game.

Decimus · February 16

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

show previous quotes

Decimus wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

IIILaaLaaIII wrote: »

As you can all now see it was clearly intentional use of the exploit.
I raised it as he was streaming to a decent number of the players of the game, essentially teaching them how to do it. I was trying to limit the use and demonstration of it.

Having watched the video... this is not an exploit, it's literally how the set works - your problem is with the way the set's functionality as it pulls opponents to the player after the delay, regardless of where the player is. You do not even need this specific NB ability to have this to happen, you can just play a speed capped character or utilize something like Ball of Lightning, arcanist portal, mist form, Bursting Wines on warden etc.

Is this a fun experience? No, it isn't - not anymore so than being run over by a ball group.

I'd say both need to be resolved, fortunately this one is quite simple: set just needs to pull to a static location instead of the player.

Exactly as I said earlier, a lot of these "exploiter" accusations stem either from PvP tilt or from misunderstanding of game mechanics.

Ah yes, because pulling people through walls and into structures, potentially crashing them, or pulling them out of keeps where they should be safe is just how the set works and totally intended. Brilliant analysis.

This is obviously an exploit—the fact that it can be repeatedly abused to ignore game mechanics and force unnatural interactions proves that. Sets are designed to function within the intended constraints of the game world, not to bypass physical barriers and allow players to be forcibly moved into areas they should never reach.

Sure, the set might need a fix, but actively abusing its broken functionality instead of reporting it is what makes it an exploit. The idea that this is just a misunderstanding of mechanics is laughable—it’s a blatant abuse of unintended interactions.

The set pulls everyone who was within 12m to you after a delay, what is not working as intended? I'd recommend not stacking that close to the ball group running around or block tapping after you see the gap close - I very rarely get pulled by this set when I PvP.

Also there is nothing unnatural about pulling people out of keeps... this can be done manually with in game abilities as well like I mentioned earlier - there's even an AoE one I forgot (pull DW scribe) which has a travel time you can utilize to make it pull even further with abovementioned tricks, but if you just want to pull one person outside the keep the DK chain is undodgeable - pretty sure I've done that myself in the past in Cyrodiil to troll people.

If you genuinely believe that pulling someone through a wall and out of a keep is just normal gameplay, then there’s really not much else to say. Some arguments just speak for themselves. Not worth continuing this discussion.

It is, because the game literally has no alternatives - you cannot implement a collision check based on player position when there's a second or two of positional desync in the game anyway - this is also the cause behind "target out of range" when you're right next to someone & arcanist beams and other cone AoEs requiring you to lead the target to have any hope of landing them, why dawnbreakers miss point blank range etc.

The set is working exactly as intended, based on the limitations set on it by the game. Is it good design or not is a different question.

This issue would be significantly alleviated by ball groups not causing the lag and large part of the positional desyncing, which could allow a thing such as collision check to be a feasible solution. In absence of that however, the set should pull people to a static location as a good workaround to avoid these types of incidents caused by the set working exactly as intended at the moment.

The video is pretty clear. The streamer knows where the pillar is and intentionally steps behind it to pull. This isn't a case of accidently doing something due to desync. You're either looking for someone to get upset enough with you to cross a line here on the forums and get themselves tapped by the moderators or you're defending something that you're guilty of doing in game.

Cool theory, but no.

Streamer is doing that because he can do it, because it's how the set works - is there something in game saying it shouldn't pull targets that were within 12m at the moment of the gap closer landing to where he is after the delay?

I explained quite clearly how the set works in my post and why there cannot be a collision check due to technical reasons.

I think the reason people are upset is because he is disrupting a ball groups gameplay, "ruining their gameplay" by playing in a clever way to try and fight back against what seems like... 10 people in what I can only expect is fully coordinated buff sets running after outnumbered players of his faction. Surely these ball group players are not... "ruining the gameplay" of anyone else doing this?

The difference is that people don't advocate for de-platforming (if any happen to be streaming), canceling and banning ball group players... people ask for fixes because they're playing the game exactly as it can be played.

Nomadic_Atmoran · February 16

Decimus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

IIILaaLaaIII wrote: »

As you can all now see it was clearly intentional use of the exploit.
I raised it as he was streaming to a decent number of the players of the game, essentially teaching them how to do it. I was trying to limit the use and demonstration of it.

Having watched the video... this is not an exploit, it's literally how the set works - your problem is with the way the set's functionality as it pulls opponents to the player after the delay, regardless of where the player is. You do not even need this specific NB ability to have this to happen, you can just play a speed capped character or utilize something like Ball of Lightning, arcanist portal, mist form, Bursting Wines on warden etc.

Is this a fun experience? No, it isn't - not anymore so than being run over by a ball group.

I'd say both need to be resolved, fortunately this one is quite simple: set just needs to pull to a static location instead of the player.

Exactly as I said earlier, a lot of these "exploiter" accusations stem either from PvP tilt or from misunderstanding of game mechanics.

Ah yes, because pulling people through walls and into structures, potentially crashing them, or pulling them out of keeps where they should be safe is just how the set works and totally intended. Brilliant analysis.

This is obviously an exploit—the fact that it can be repeatedly abused to ignore game mechanics and force unnatural interactions proves that. Sets are designed to function within the intended constraints of the game world, not to bypass physical barriers and allow players to be forcibly moved into areas they should never reach.

Sure, the set might need a fix, but actively abusing its broken functionality instead of reporting it is what makes it an exploit. The idea that this is just a misunderstanding of mechanics is laughable—it’s a blatant abuse of unintended interactions.

The set pulls everyone who was within 12m to you after a delay, what is not working as intended? I'd recommend not stacking that close to the ball group running around or block tapping after you see the gap close - I very rarely get pulled by this set when I PvP.

Also there is nothing unnatural about pulling people out of keeps... this can be done manually with in game abilities as well like I mentioned earlier - there's even an AoE one I forgot (pull DW scribe) which has a travel time you can utilize to make it pull even further with abovementioned tricks, but if you just want to pull one person outside the keep the DK chain is undodgeable - pretty sure I've done that myself in the past in Cyrodiil to troll people.

If you genuinely believe that pulling someone through a wall and out of a keep is just normal gameplay, then there’s really not much else to say. Some arguments just speak for themselves. Not worth continuing this discussion.

It is, because the game literally has no alternatives - you cannot implement a collision check based on player position when there's a second or two of positional desync in the game anyway - this is also the cause behind "target out of range" when you're right next to someone & arcanist beams and other cone AoEs requiring you to lead the target to have any hope of landing them, why dawnbreakers miss point blank range etc.

The set is working exactly as intended, based on the limitations set on it by the game. Is it good design or not is a different question.

This issue would be significantly alleviated by ball groups not causing the lag and large part of the positional desyncing, which could allow a thing such as collision check to be a feasible solution. In absence of that however, the set should pull people to a static location as a good workaround to avoid these types of incidents caused by the set working exactly as intended at the moment.

The video is pretty clear. The streamer knows where the pillar is and intentionally steps behind it to pull. This isn't a case of accidently doing something due to desync. You're either looking for someone to get upset enough with you to cross a line here on the forums and get themselves tapped by the moderators or you're defending something that you're guilty of doing in game.

Cool theory, but no.

Streamer is doing that because he can do it, because it's how the set works - is there something in game saying it shouldn't pull targets that were within 12m at the moment of the gap closer landing to where he is after the delay?

I explained quite clearly how the set works in my post and why there cannot be a collision check due to technical reasons.

I think the reason people are upset is because he is disrupting a ball groups gameplay, "ruining their gameplay" by playing in a clever way to try and fight back against what seems like... 10 people in what I can only expect is fully coordinated buff sets running after outnumbered players of his faction. Surely these ball group players are not... "ruining the gameplay" of anyone else doing this?

The difference is that people don't advocate for de-platforming (if any happen to be streaming), canceling and banning ball group players... people ask for fixes because they're playing the game exactly as it can be played.

Give me a break. People are advocating for deplatforming because the Streamer was verbally abusive to someone they disagreed with and that Streamer, whether they are paid or not, are a representative of ZOS. Maybe if that Streamer wants to lead a life as a public figure where they are making money off of others engagement. They should maybe not cheat or be abusive to the playerbase/viewers.

I'm convinced now that you and the Streamer, if they arent actually you, should probably be looked a little more closely at by ZOS. Seems your business policies and attitudes towards TOS do not align.