Official Stream Team Member Exploiting and Being Offensive Toward Viewers
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NoSoup✭✭✭✭✭Geez you kind of have to laugh at the silence from ZOS. I get the impression ZOS is going to completely ignore this and do nothing. But the reality is you can't use the kind of language this streamer has been, and not expect reprocussions in this day and age. Keeping them on the StreamTeam is not a good look for Zennimax, Bethesda or Microsoft. To be completely honest, you're probably wasting your time here trying to get ZOS to take action and you're much more likely to get somewhere by bringing it to microsoft's attention.Edited by NoSoup on February 16, 2025 12:46PMFormally SirDopey, lost forum account during the great reset.....7 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The fact that this involves Rushing Agony just makes it even more of a farce.
Why is that godawful piece of crap set still in the game?PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP ground oils12 -
TheAwesomeChimpanzee✭✭✭✭TheLoreMaster420 wrote: »This streamer is clearly violating both Twitch’s Code of Conduct and ESO’s Code of Conduct. In their stream, they repeatedly used the words “***” and “***” against community members while justifying it by saying, “If you come in here and act like a ***, I'm going to call you a ***. I don’t care if I’m not allowed to say it here or there or anywhere.”
Per ESO’s Code of Conduct:
Harassment & Hate Speech – Zenimax prohibits speech that promotes hatred or discrimination, including offensive slurs.
Per Twitch’s Community Guidelines:
Hateful Conduct – Twitch does not allow content that denigrates or insults a person or group based on disability or other protected characteristics.
This person is also an ESO Stream Team member, meaning they are meant to be a positive representation of the community. Their behavior directly contradicts that responsibility. The attached video provides clear evidence of these violations. This needs to be addressed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SMEXagOkuA
Completely agree. This behavior is disgusting, especially coming from someone on the ESO Stream Team. Being part of the Stream Team isn’t just about playing the game—it’s about representing the community in a way that reflects ESO’s values. Repeatedly using slurs and justifying them like this directly violates both Twitch’s and ESO’s Code of Conduct.
If someone can’t handle that responsibility and chooses to engage in hateful speech instead, they shouldn’t be in a position where they are officially recognized as a representative of the game. This isn’t just toxic behavior—it’s a blatant violation of the rules, and it absolutely needs to be addressed.
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sans-culottes✭✭✭✭✭This is one of the many reasons I don’t watch streamers—especially gaming streamers.5 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭[snip]
As far as "deplatforming", I do think people show grow some skin with regards to verbiage.
But I am also of the opinion that being endorsed by a company comes with a standard of decorum.
If that streamer can't reign in their own behavior and grow some skin as well (not letting getting killed get under their skin), it's kinda hypocritical. But it does ultimately come down to the standards the Stream Team try to adhere to (whatever they are). Twitch rulesets are another matter.
[edited for cheat/exploit]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2025 12:03PM5 -
manukartofanu✭✭✭✭✭
this is a massive over reaction. You cant silence everyone, everywhere. You have the forums where people can barely even criticize others without being actioned. You have the game itself, where AI will auto ban you for swearing, even in whispers. You cant have it all. You cant silence everyone.
If you dont like how someone talks then dont go on their stream. If this isnt the first time you've heard this from them, and you find it so terrible, why were you back on his stream? You can block people in game, you can avoid almost any confrontation on the forums, and you can avoid watching someone on twitch. Im not sure what the issue is here.
Also im not sure what you being a "young woman" has to do with it. Its not like he would know that. And does that mean its cool for him to say the same thing to a young man? Idk, pointing that out just makes me question this a bit.
This is a matter of interpretation. I've read through the topic and see that there are two main issues people are addressing. First, the person is part of the Stream Team, which means that ZOS essentially promotes him, providing additional exposure, trust, and views he wouldn’t get if he were just any streamer. Second, the issue you're writing about does seem to exist, and as a result, people prefer to avoid writing or saying anything extra, because it’s unclear what might cause a ban. Since the person is in the Stream Team, people expect that for the advantages he receives, he would at least adhere to some formal rules imposed by ZOS. Even the videos posted here show that he violates the rules far worse than what would get someone banned in the game, and he seems to not care at all. This gives me the impression that he is confident he won’t be banned under any circumstances. It's precisely this behavior, where a person feels they are in a clearly privileged position and immune to punishment, no matter what they do, that irritates people.
Indeed, if we were to consider his behavior in isolation, it wouldn’t be anything special; I wouldn’t have even noticed it if it were in CS, where I've never been banned despite also occasionally saying various things in chat. You see, people in those games don't face the same pressure as here, so they tend to take such matters more lightly.3 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheLoreMaster420 wrote: »
Per ESO’s Code of Conduct:
Harassment & Hate Speech – Zenimax prohibits speech that promotes hatred or discrimination, including offensive slurs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SMEXagOkuA
This streamer should be instantly removed from the Stream Team program.
He is clearly violating the Code of Conduct.
He even says he doesn't care if he can't say that, that he will still do it.
Edited by Dragonnord on February 16, 2025 2:03PMSERVER: NA | PLATFORM: PC | OS: Windows 10 | CLIENT: Steam | ESO PLUS: Yes11 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »[snip]
Swarm Mother actually doesn't respect collision either, it just doesn't have a delay - the pull is instant. You can notice this if you block a projectile with it while speed jumping into line of sight or with a very well timed Shade/Streak/Arcanist Portal etc etc, the game won't have time to calculate your position in game (positional desync).
The only time it'd have time to calculate for a collision check (which I don't think even exists, and if it does it's just wasted server resources) is if you've been behind LOS for 1-2s before that projectile lands, which is a very rare scenario.
Rush of Agony pulls everyone that was within 12m after a 0,8s delay, so you have much more time to get behind an object but not enough time to account for the positional desync. So even if they added one, game would still think you're out exactly where you were when you gap closed since the server delay for player position is more than 1s typically.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2025 12:07PM4 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
Swarm Mother actually doesn't respect collision either, it just doesn't have a delay - the pull is instant. You can notice this if you block a projectile with it while speed jumping into line of sight or with a very well timed Shade/Streak/Arcanist Portal etc etc, the game won't have time to calculate your position in game (positional desync).
The only time it'd have time to calculate for a collision check (which I don't think even exists, and if it does it's just wasted server resources) is if you've been behind LOS for 1-2s before that projectile lands, which is a very rare scenario.
Rush of Agony pulls everyone that was within 12m after a 0,8s delay, so you have much more time to get behind an object but not enough time to account for the positional desync. So even if they added one, game would still think you're out exactly where you were when you gap closed since the server delay for player position is more than 1s typically.
It isn't the .8 second delay, but the .2 second minimum travel time for the chains that causes people to get pulled from behind walls. Once the chains are coming for you they will continue coming no matter where the puller or the pullee has gone.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2025 12:09PM3 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Synapsis123 wrote: »
It isn't the .8 second delay, but the .2 second minimum travel time for the chains that causes people to get pulled from behind walls. Once the chains are coming for you they will continue coming no matter where the puller or the pullee has gone.
It is the 0,8s delay as well because of the positional desync - client side you can teleport out of the area you gap closed into, but the game still considers you to be where you were 1-2 seconds ago.
Same concept applies to line of sighting and so many other things: client side you can see someone right infront of you running around a pillar and it'll not let you land your melee spammable because the target is actually behind the pillar server side, you just cannot see it.
You can actually test the amount of positional desync happening by having a friend run in a straight line in Cyrodiil & aiming an Arcanist beam directly at them... and then start moving beam forward until you see damage ticks on your screen.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2025 12:12PM1 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
It is the 0,8s delay as well because of the positional desync - client side you can teleport out of the area you gap closed into, but the game still considers you to be where you were 1-2 seconds ago.
Same concept applies to line of sighting and so many other things: client side you can see someone right infront of you running around a pillar and it'll not let you land your melee spammable because the target is actually behind the pillar server side, you just cannot see it.
You can actually test the amount of positional desync happening by having a friend run in a straight line in Cyrodiil & aiming an Arcanist beam directly at them... and then start moving beam forward until you see damage ticks on your screen.
For that to be true the person would have to have 1000 to 2000 ms lag. That isn't ever the case in reality.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2025 12:14PM3 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Synapsis123 wrote: »
For that to be true the person would have to have 1000 to 2000 ms lag. That isn't ever the case in reality.
It's got nothing to do with client side latency, this is server side. I can have 50ms ping & still need to aim arcanist beam 2-3 character width ahead of where the opponent is on my screen to actually hit them.
Similarly your ping can be perfectly fine sometimes, but abilities are not firing or fire at a delay (especially around ball groups). This may not always be happening, but happens often enough - the positional desync however is always there since the game has always been extremely poorly optimized in that regard.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2025 12:19PM2 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭✭
It's got nothing to do with client side latency, this is server side. I can have 50ms ping & still need to aim arcanist beam 2-3 character width ahead of where the opponent is on my screen to actually hit them.
Similarly your ping can be perfectly fine sometimes, but abilities are not firing or fire at a delay (especially around ball groups). This may not always be happening, but happens often enough - the positional desync however is always there since the game has always been extremely poorly optimized in that regard.
That’s not the issue here. Yes, ESO has desync and server-side lag, but that doesn’t excuse intentionally using mechanics to pull players through solid objects or abusing a bugged spot where they can’t be attacked. This wasn’t just ‘lag being lag’—the streamer swapped to a setup specifically to take advantage of it. That’s the difference between an accident and an exploit.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2025 12:20PM10 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
It's got nothing to do with client side latency, this is server side. I can have 50ms ping & still need to aim arcanist beam 2-3 character width ahead of where the opponent is on my screen to actually hit them.
Similarly your ping can be perfectly fine sometimes, but abilities are not firing or fire at a delay (especially around ball groups). This may not always be happening, but happens often enough - the positional desync however is always there since the game has always been extremely poorly optimized in that regard.
This happens when the server and client have differing views of where players are. Even if you have a low ping, if the server updates positions at a slower rate or uses a delay-based system instead of a rollback system, you’ll see opponents slightly behind or ahead of their actual positions on the server. That’s why you need to aim ahead with the Arcanist beam—because the actual hitbox, according to the server, is further than where you visually see them.
Yes, high client-side latency makes things worse by amplifying the already existing server-side desync and delays. The worse your ping, the more you have to overcompensate your aim, reaction time, and positioning to account for both your own lag and the server’s poor synchronization.
It isn't just one thing. It is both.
In no world would you be able to pull someone who ported away during the first .7 seconds of the rush delay. The person would have to port away at .7 - .79 seconds into the rush pull to still get pulled in a way that seems unfair. Also kind of weird to think that a person would have the reaction time and presence of mind to port out of a rush, but not to hold block while doing so. Still a L2p issue.
Edit: I just want to point out that the streamer in question certainly didn't accidentally pull people through pillars because of lag. They put on the set and said "Want to see something really annoying?", proceeded to place the shade behind a pillar and then port after the .8 delay while the .2 travel time was happening multiple times. They attempted to do it many more times, but failed. There is no question about the intentionality of their actions.
The only question is whether this is considered an unintended use of game mechanics and an exploit. A similar issue was seen with the scribing dual wield skill. Someone made a video doing something very similar to this streamer and they were perma banned for it. I think ZOS's stance on this type of thing is pretty clear.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2025 12:22PM5 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭✭I didn't read through the whole thread so I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet or not, but this streamer is also super toxic in other ways.
This streamer teabags anyone and everyone on a near constant basis that puts up much of a fight. He's super toxic on other levels too, not just exploiting with RoA....a set that never should have been created and now that it has and we've seen how awful the set is, should be removed from PvP at the very least, and IMO from the game all together. Free pull sets should not exist.6 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Synapsis123 wrote: »
This happens when the server and client have differing views of where players are. Even if you have a low ping, if the server updates positions at a slower rate or uses a delay-based system instead of a rollback system, you’ll see opponents slightly behind or ahead of their actual positions on the server. That’s why you need to aim ahead with the Arcanist beam—because the actual hitbox, according to the server, is further than where you visually see them.
That is... literally what I just wrote. The issue with RoA is caused by the server side issues, aka positional desync.
Glad we're on the same page.Synapsis123 wrote: »Yes, high client-side latency makes things worse by amplifying the already existing server-side desync and delays. The worse your ping, the more you have to overcompensate your aim, reaction time, and positioning to account for both your own lag and the server’s poor synchronization.
It isn't just one thing. It is both.
Yes and no, once your gap closer actually finally goes off (which can be delayed further by client side latency), then the server side calculation takes the wheel & checks if there are targets within 12m to pull. Porting out at this point still pulls people because the server has no time to check what your position is 0,8 seconds later, it also has no time to check for collision etc - it just pulls targets to you because it thinks you're in range of targets. Client side latency doesn't really impact things here, not on the side of RoA user atleast - if anything it can make it harder to create that distance to do a mega pull after gap closing in.Synapsis123 wrote: »In no world would you be able to pull someone who ported away during the first .7 seconds of the rush delay. The person would have to port away at .7 - .79 seconds into the rush pull to seem like they got pulled. Also kind of weird to think that a person would have the reaction time and presence of mind to port out of a rush, but not to hold block while doing so. Still a L2p issue.
Edit: I just want to point out that the streamer in question certainly didn't accidentally pull people through pillars cause of lag. They put the set on said "Want to see something really annoying?", proceeded to place the shade behind a pillar and then port after the .8 delay while the .2 travel time was happening multiple times. They attempted to do it many more times, but failed.
You can, and that happens very often even if the target stands still after gap closing or moves as little as possible... you realize the pull is a 12m radius & max range Streak for example ports you 15m away? If you don't hold block while streaking I'd say there's an extremely high chance to get pulled back, and because of the positional desync you can not only get pulled back, but get pulled a mile away if the opponent moved the opposite direction.
As I've mentioned many times in this thread, I don't have an issue with Rush of Agony personally - been ages since I got pulled by it anywhere since I know how to block tap.
That said, I understand not everyone can play at that level and the set does have problematic interactions due to the positional desync - in an ideal world they'd fix the positional desync & along with that a whole lot of other issues as well... but as an alternative I think RoA should just pull to the location you gap closed into, not where the player is since a static location isn't prone to desyncing.
I don't think the streamer in question did anything wrong, to me it looks like he simply wanted to troll a ball group and now said ball group is very upset - it happens.
Now why would the streamer (or anyone for that matter) want to troll a ball group running after outnumbered players or solos? I wonder...
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2025 12:26PM2 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »I didn't read through the whole thread so I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet or not, but this streamer is also super toxic in other ways.
This streamer teabags anyone and everyone on a near constant basis that puts up much of a fight. He's super toxic on other levels too, not just exploiting with RoA....a set that never should have been created and now that it has and we've seen how awful the set is, should be removed from PvP at the very least, and IMO from the game all together. Free pull sets should not exist.
I can definitely agree that the streamer is toxic, especially with the constant teabagging and hate whispering. That alone speaks volumes about their attitude in PvP.10 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭✭Synapsis123 wrote: »
This happens when the server and client have differing views of where players are. Even if you have a low ping, if the server updates positions at a slower rate or uses a delay-based system instead of a rollback system, you’ll see opponents slightly behind or ahead of their actual positions on the server. That’s why you need to aim ahead with the Arcanist beam—because the actual hitbox, according to the server, is further than where you visually see them.
Yes, high client-side latency makes things worse by amplifying the already existing server-side desync and delays. The worse your ping, the more you have to overcompensate your aim, reaction time, and positioning to account for both your own lag and the server’s poor synchronization.
It isn't just one thing. It is both.
In no world would you be able to pull someone who ported away during the first .7 seconds of the rush delay. The person would have to port away at .7 - .79 seconds into the rush pull to still get pulled in a way that seems unfair. Also kind of weird to think that a person would have the reaction time and presence of mind to port out of a rush, but not to hold block while doing so. Still a L2p issue.
Edit: I just want to point out that the streamer in question certainly didn't accidentally pull people through pillars cause of lag. They put the set and said "Want to see something really annoying?", proceeded to place the shade behind a pillar and then port after the .8 delay while the .2 travel time was happening multiple times. They attempted to do it many more times, but failed. There is no question about the intentionality of their actions.
The only question is whether this is considered an unintended use of game mechanics and an exploit. A similar issue was seen with the scribing dual wield skill. Someone made a video doing something very similar to this streamer and they were perma banned for it. I think ZOS's stance on this type of thing is pretty clear.
Meaning that whether or not it's an exploit or toxic behavior depends on the individual engaging in the behavior? Because that's how it looks to many of us who have watched how these situations have been handled over the years. The pets are allowed to get away with almost anything. Meanwhile most of the rest of us just have to roll the dice and hope we don't do or say something that will result in action taken against us even for the most minor of offenses or something that is labeled as an offense even when it wasn't.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2025 12:23PM6 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭✭
That is... literally what I just wrote. The issue with RoA is caused by the server side issues, aka positional desync.
Glad we're on the same page.
Yes and no, once your gap closer actually finally goes off (which can be delayed further by client side latency), then the server side calculation takes the wheel & checks if there are targets within 12m to pull. Porting out at this point still pulls people because the server has no time to check what your position is 0,8 seconds later, it also has no time to check for collision etc - it just pulls targets to you because it thinks you're in range of targets. Client side latency doesn't really impact things here, not on the side of RoA user atleast - if anything it can make it harder to create that distance to do a mega pull after gap closing in.
You can, and that happens very often even if the target stands still after gap closing or moves as little as possible... you realize the pull is a 12m radius & max range Streak for example ports you 15m away? If you don't hold block while streaking I'd say there's an extremely high chance to get pulled back, and because of the positional desync you can not only get pulled back, but get pulled a mile away if the opponent moved the opposite direction.
As I've mentioned many times in this thread, I don't have an issue with Rush of Agony personally - been ages since I got pulled by it anywhere since I know how to block tap.
That said, I understand not everyone can play at that level and the set does have problematic interactions due to the positional desync - in an ideal world they'd fix the positional desync & along with that a whole lot of other issues as well... but as an alternative I think RoA should just pull to the location you gap closed into, not where the player is since a static location isn't prone to desyncing.
I don't think the streamer in question did anything wrong, to me it looks like he simply wanted to troll a ball group and now said ball group is very upset - it happens.
Now why would the streamer (or anyone for that matter) want to troll a ball group running after outnumbered players or solos? I wonder...
That is... literally what I just wrote. The issue with RoA is caused by the server side issues, aka positional desync.
Glad we're on the same page.
Yes and no, once your gap closer actually finally goes off (which can be delayed further by client side latency), then the server side calculation takes the wheel & checks if there are targets within 12m to pull. Porting out at this point still pulls people because the server has no time to check what your position is 0,8 seconds later, it also has no time to check for collision etc - it just pulls targets to you because it thinks you're in range of targets. Client side latency doesn't really impact things here, not on the side of RoA user atleast - if anything it can make it harder to create that distance to do a mega pull after gap closing in.
You can, and that happens very often even if the target stands still after gap closing or moves as little as possible... you realize the pull is a 12m radius & max range Streak for example ports you 15m away? If you don't hold block while streaking I'd say there's an extremely high chance to get pulled back, and because of the positional desync you can not only get pulled back, but get pulled a mile away if the opponent moved the opposite direction.
As I've mentioned many times in this thread, I don't have an issue with Rush of Agony personally - been ages since I got pulled by it anywhere since I know how to block tap.
That said, I understand not everyone can play at that level and the set does have problematic interactions due to the positional desync - in an ideal world they'd fix the positional desync & along with that a whole lot of other issues as well... but as an alternative I think RoA should just pull to the location you gap closed into, not where the player is since a static location isn't prone to desyncing.
I don't think the streamer in question did anything wrong, to me it looks like he simply wanted to troll a ball group and now said ball group is very upset - it happens.
Now why would the streamer (or anyone for that matter) want to troll a ball group running after outnumbered players or solos? I wonder...
It's funny how you try to frame it like the ball group was the one picking on outnumbered players, when in reality, the streamer exploiting Rush of Agony with Shade was literally zerg surfing and outnumbering the ball group. If anything, they were doing exactly what they're supposedly criticizing—except with an exploit on top of it.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 17, 2025 12:29PM10 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭I don't think the streamer in question did anything wrong, to me it looks like he simply wanted to troll a ball group and now said ball group is very upset - it happens.
Now why would the streamer (or anyone for that matter) want to troll a ball group running after outnumbered players or solos? I wonder...
The question is whether this "trolling" constitutes exploiting. Intentionally pulling people through walls is always considered a no-no from what I can tell. Engaging in acts of griefing is against TOS. They also violated the section of this code of conduct when they engaged with users in their chat by calling them r****ds.
At all times users will refrain from attacking age, race, color, disability, sexual orientation, national origin, religion, lifestyle, pregnancy, gender or any other personally identifying factors protected category under applicable law.
2.3 You may not harass, threaten, intentionally humiliate, “stream snipe”, “name and shame”, engage in acts of “griefing”, or cause distress to another user, guest, or ZeniMax staff member/teams using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks (both text and voice chat), unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another user’s experience. At all times users will refrain from attacking age, race, color, disability, sexual orientation, national origin, religion, lifestyle, pregnancy, gender or any other personally identifying factors protected category under applicable law. You may at no time share or refer to personal information of another person, account name, persona or avatar using ZeniMax or its affiliates. We encourage you to share feedback, suggestion, and requests with us, but we expect all of our users to refrain from abusive and disruptive behavior or resorting to demands or threats. Threats of real-life violence, in particular, are something we take very seriously and do not tolerate.
Edited by Teeba_Shei on February 16, 2025 5:59PM11 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Synapsis123 wrote: »
The question is whether this "trolling" constitutes exploiting. Intentionally pulling people through walls is always considered a no-no from what I can tell. Engaging in acts of griefing is against TOS.
2.3 You may not harass, threaten, intentionally humiliate, “stream snipe”, “name and shame”, engage in acts of “griefing”, or cause distress to another user, guest, or ZeniMax staff member/teams using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks (both text and voice chat), unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another user’s experience. At all times users will refrain from attacking age, race, color, disability, sexual orientation, national origin, religion, lifestyle, pregnancy, gender or any other personally identifying factors protected category under applicable law. You may at no time share or refer to personal information of another person, account name, persona or avatar using ZeniMax or its affiliates. We encourage you to share feedback, suggestion, and requests with us, but we expect all of our users to refrain from abusive and disruptive behavior or resorting to demands or threats. Threats of real-life violence, in particular, are something we take very seriously and do not tolerate.
No, I've never heard of anyone considering "being pulled through a wall" an act of exploiting... unless that is used to get into places where you shouldn't get to.
All I've seen on these video clips is the streamer cleverly porting to a Shadow Image behind a pillar (you know, something you can just walk around as well) and pulling people because there isn't a collision check on the skill and there's positional desync that everyone has in PvP.
Should I report the next person running around a pillar and causing abilities to not hit them because of constant failed LOS checks (since server side they're not where you see them client side)? Should I be reported for that? After all, it's "abusing" the same issues the game has had since 2014.
If we want to talk about actual griefing and harassment, how about targeting specific streamers and running after them with a huge ball group? In the video clips linked, I count 10 coordinated yellows and at most 4-5 EP players. I understand ball group players need these advantages to overcome other obstacles they have, but it's usually not very fun for the receiving end (whether they're a streamer or not) - I'd even argue it's less fun than being momentarily pulled behind a pillar, out of the safety of 18 buff sets and crossheals.Edited by Decimus on February 16, 2025 6:06PM5 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭✭
No, I've never heard of anyone considering "being pulled through a wall" an act of exploiting... unless that is used to get into places where you shouldn't get to.
All I've seen on these video clips is the streamer cleverly porting to a Shadow Image behind a pillar (you know, something you can just walk around as well) and pulling people because there isn't a collision check on the skill and there's positional desync that everyone has in PvP.
Should I report the next person running around a pillar and causing abilities to not hit them because of constant failed LOS checks (since server side they're not where you see them client side)? Should I be reported for that? After all, it's "abusing" the same issues the game has had since 2014.
If we want to talk about actual griefing and harassment, how about targeting specific streamers and running after them with a huge ball group? In the video clips linked, I count 10 coordinated yellows and at most 4-5 EP players. I understand ball group players need these advantages to overcome other obstacles they have, but it's usually not very fun for the receiving end (whether they're a streamer or not) - I'd even argue it's less fun than being momentarily pulled behind a pillar, out of the safety of 18 buff sets and crossheals.
Pulling players through a wall due to bad collision checks isn’t just "clever positioning"—it’s an exploit. The issue isn’t positional desync; it’s the fact that the game doesn’t properly check for line-of-sight when RoA pulls players, allowing them to be yanked through solid objects. Just because the game has had these issues for years doesn’t mean abusing them is fair play.
And let’s not pretend the streamer was some helpless victim—zerg surfing with RoA and Shade while exploiting bad collision interactions isn’t exactly the moral high ground. If anything, they were doing exactly what they’re accusing others of, just with an exploit in their back pocket.10 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
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Pulling players through a wall due to bad collision checks isn’t just "clever positioning"—it’s an exploit. The issue isn’t positional desync; it’s the fact that the game doesn’t properly check for line-of-sight when RoA pulls players, allowing them to be yanked through solid objects. Just because the game has had these issues for years doesn’t mean abusing them is fair play.
And let’s not pretend the streamer was some helpless victim—zerg surfing with RoA and Shade while exploiting bad collision interactions isn’t exactly the moral high ground. If anything, they were doing exactly what they’re accusing others of, just with an exploit in their back pocket.
And why do you think it can't properly check of line-of sight?
This might've been mentioned a few times in previous posts, but the game literally can't check for line-of-sight (i.e. collision) because the game still thinks you're pretty much where you gap closed into, next to (or close enough) to enemies... due to positional desync.
I can agree it is cheesy (unless done to ball groups), but it most definitely isn't exploiting any more so than running around a pillar and abusing that same desync is.
I can't speak to whether the streamer has zerged you or not (the opposite is clear on the clips provided), not really interested in that - what bothers me is the attempts of cancelling people over made up reasons & people trying to make a big deal out of streamers using gamer words.
Spoiler: half of Twitch uses these words - there's going to be an officially sponsored streamer on every big game that uses either the very same terms or worse... and that's perfectly fine, as long as they're not crossing the line and becoming a brand risk, which is the only thing companies care about.
Now people may have different takes on what "the line" should be, but calling someone the words mentioned in original post is something you see all around Twitch.2 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
No, I've never heard of anyone considering "being pulled through a wall" an act of exploiting... unless that is used to get into places where you shouldn't get to.
All I've seen on these video clips is the streamer cleverly porting to a Shadow Image behind a pillar (you know, something you can just walk around as well) and pulling people because there isn't a collision check on the skill and there's positional desync that everyone has in PvP.
Should I report the next person running around a pillar and causing abilities to not hit them because of constant failed LOS checks (since server side they're not where you see them client side)? Should I be reported for that? After all, it's "abusing" the same issues the game has had since 2014.
If we want to talk about actual griefing and harassment, how about targeting specific streamers and running after them with a huge ball group? In the video clips linked, I count 10 coordinated yellows and at most 4-5 EP players. I understand ball group players need these advantages to overcome other obstacles they have, but it's usually not very fun for the receiving end (whether they're a streamer or not) - I'd even argue it's less fun than being momentarily pulled behind a pillar, out of the safety of 18 buff sets and crossheals.
I see you didn't engage with the other part of my post. Do you agree that engaging with viewers of the chat by calling them r****ds is against the code of conduct?7 -
TheAwesomeChimpanzee✭✭✭✭
No, I've never heard of anyone considering "being pulled through a wall" an act of exploiting... unless that is used to get into places where you shouldn't get to.
All I've seen on these video clips is the streamer cleverly porting to a Shadow Image behind a pillar (you know, something you can just walk around as well) and pulling people because there isn't a collision check on the skill and there's positional desync that everyone has in PvP.
Should I report the next person running around a pillar and causing abilities to not hit them because of constant failed LOS checks (since server side they're not where you see them client side)? Should I be reported for that? After all, it's "abusing" the same issues the game has had since 2014.
If we want to talk about actual griefing and harassment, how about targeting specific streamers and running after them with a huge ball group? In the video clips linked, I count 10 coordinated yellows and at most 4-5 EP players. I understand ball group players need these advantages to overcome other obstacles they have, but it's usually not very fun for the receiving end (whether they're a streamer or not) - I'd even argue it's less fun than being momentarily pulled behind a pillar, out of the safety of 18 buff sets and crossheals.
It’s interesting how you contradict yourself here. You say that being pulled through a wall isn’t exploiting unless it’s used to get into places you shouldn’t be—yet in another page of the thread, you defended a streamer who was literally jumping over walls and into keeps, exactly what you claim is an exploit here. So which is it?
As for the “targeted harassment” claim, that’s just false. The clip doesn’t show anyone specifically targeting the streamer—he was on the frontline of an EP keep with even more EP inside. No one was “running after him with a ball group”; he was actively trying to pull people into a wall and mess with them using unintended mechanics. That’s not being hunted down—it’s getting called out for abusing the game.
Also, this isn’t a forum about whether playing against ball groups is fun or not. This is about exploiting and using unintended mechanics to disrupt legitimate gameplay. If your best defense is to deflect to ball groups being annoying, then you don’t actually have a defense.
Edited by TheAwesomeChimpanzee on February 16, 2025 6:33PM6 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Synapsis123 wrote: »
I see you didn't engage with the other part of my post. Do you agree that engaging with viewers of the chat by calling them r****ds is against the code of conduct?
No, I don't - I've called people much worse and so have most people streaming competitive PvP on Twitch.
It's not something that should be your base behaviour if you want to grow your Twitch channel and cultivate a good viewer base, but it's normal for people to get pissed off sometimes, especially at people trying to harass them.
What's important is to respect the Terms of Service in game & on Twitch and try to be your best self online as much as possible.Edited by Decimus on February 16, 2025 6:28PM3 -
sans-culottes✭✭✭✭✭It’s concerning that so many people have decided it’s cool to use ableist slurs again. This shouldn’t even be a discussion, given that it’s in ZOS’s Terms of Service. If you can accept that other forms of obvious hate speech are inappropriate, then slurs directed at persons with intellectual and genetic differences should 100% also be a no brainer.Edited by sans-culottes on February 16, 2025 6:31PM9
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VoxAdActa✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Kevin, could you please check age of topic starter person because I have all intentions to doubt them eligible to play the game since it is marked 18+ and it is described clearly in TOS, and they described themself as "young woman", so the real age is very unclear and their words and habits also lead to this conclusion. By the end of investigation, this user should be temporarily disabled, for the good intentions to fence off young person from mature content, as this game is 18+. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but to protect young users because this is a serious problem these days. Hope ZOS will not skip this request, as I am really concerned about the situation.
Maybe ZOS should investigate the ages of everyone using and defending the use of slurs and sexual comments, because they're much more likely to be teenage boys than the people who find that kind of emotional immaturity abhorrent.11 -
imPDA✭✭Fully agree with that. Is you spot such a behavior, please be sure to send a report, it will help a lot. ZOS already did great job moderated game chat tho!1
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Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »
It’s interesting how you contradict yourself here. You say that being pulled through a wall isn’t exploiting unless it’s used to get into places you shouldn’t be—yet in another thread, you defended a streamer who was literally jumping over walls and into keeps, exactly what you claim is an exploit here. So which is it?
Intent also matters - no harm, no foul. I test things all the time in game, I find many exploits and I report them... because I tested these exploits in game I technically also exploited -> ban? It doesn't work that way.
If a streamer mega jumps into a keep and somehow solo captures it and affects the campaign then yes, he's exploiting - if a streamer jumps into a keep just for fun and jumps back out then we're back in the "no harm no foul" part.
Similarly (hypotethically, there's a death barrier in place if the gate is closed nowadays) if someone with RoA intentionally pulls a person from opponent faction through the Scroll Gate and allows the person to capture the scroll, that'd be exploiting.
Pulling someone through a pillar that they could walk around anyway in 2 seconds is wildly different and this should be obvious.TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »As for the “targeted harassment” claim, that’s just false. The clip doesn’t show anyone specifically targeting the streamer—he was on the frontline of an EP keep with even more EP inside. No one was “running after him with a ball group”; he was actively trying to pull people into a wall and mess with them using unintended mechanics. That’s not being hunted down—it’s getting called out for abusing the game.
Also, this isn’t a forum about whether playing against ball groups is fun or not. This is about exploiting and using unintended mechanics to disrupt legitimate gameplay. If your best defense is to deflect to ball groups being annoying, then you don’t actually have a defense.
The clip doesn't, however the streamer has apparently from what I've learned reported these same people multiple times as they've been following him around for a long time now, and before him another person whose name these people used for the Youtube channel.
Your claim that he was "trying to pull people into a wall" is entirely speculative - I see no people being pulled into a wall, only through it.
A nice try though - I'm sorry your "legitimate gameplay" of running after outnumbered people was disrupted, maybe this gives an idea of how those outnumbered people feel like when they just try to play Cyrodiil and find good fights.5
This discussion has been closed.