Fun Battlegrounds Chapter 8: Waiting 2 minutes 27 seconds for a fun match! (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)https://youtu.be/iq-B58ts_CE?si=T6MESudnjHdc_Xtc
So I went to Youtube and watched some of the videos in your Bg's playlist. Looks like you've spent a lot of time in battlegrounds over the years and have put together some impressive builds. Of the 47 vidoes in your bg playlist seven of them are in the new two team format and the rest are three team (I skimmed them, I'm at work and cant watch 15 hours of Youtube so if I got something wrong I apologize). Far as I can tell you took a two year break from posting bg vids and only started posting again with the format change. Did the two team format inspire you to get back into ESO? Or to start posting to YT again? That's great. Since you've seen fit to share your new two team bg vids with us I thought I'd go check them out and read the comments. All 10 of them. I was interested in gauging how your audience felt about the format change but unfortunately there were no comments pertaining to format preference. My favorite comments were the ones that asked "what game is this?" but the one guy who asked if it was WoW was pretty funny. I am glad to see the game being promoted in a positive light, I'm gonna have to take a closer look at your vids and see if theres a warden build in there...been thinking of making one you see.
In regards to your post on page nine of this thread, the poll you cited showing format preference, could you post a link to that please? I'd be interested in seeing that post/vid/poll in context, if you don't mind.
And lastly, a genuine question. You've been a vocal advocate for two team bg's in this thread and several others. You've given some clear and concise breakdowns of gameplay and how, in your opinion, two team gameplay is superior to that of three team. Maybe you're even right, I don't know, I'm not a bg guru. What I do know is, subjectively, you like two team and I like three team. I want you to be able to play the way you want. Why don't you want us to be able to play the way we want? We want everybody to get what they're asking for. You seem dead set against the return of three team. Why is that? And before you cite population/participation as the reason, that the population wont support that many queues please note that this thread has been viewed 13.8K times. That's a lot of views for a subject nobody's interested in, for a part of the game nobody plays. So if participation is there, why don't you want everyone to be able to play the way they want?
I'm not really that active on Youtube as I've been mostly focusing on Twitch these past 5 or so years... I might do some multistreaming on both platforms in the future though as they've somewhat recently relaxed the Twitch terms of service in that regard.
That's really the main reasoning behind not posting too many videos over the last few years, but of course it's much easier to get good videos in the new format compared to previous one.
My builds I usually put up on my website and keep up to date there - not sure how the forum rules are on linking websites, but you can find a link to it in description of my videos - got my magden & melee/ranged stamden builds there (melee stamden is featured in BG video #44).
Regarding your other question, it's mostly about the limited development resources and how they're spent. You might have noticed that there is very little BG or balance changes in the upcoming Update 45 - this is because they have very limited resources and those are all spent on working on the upcoming Cyrodiil changes. This is from the recent Q&A posted on the forums:https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672867/cyrodiil-champions-live-test-community-q-a/p1Q. Will these Cyrodiil tests, whether they go well or poorly, have any implications for other PvP content such as Imperial City or Battlegrounds? – ParalyzerT9
A. In terms of the test, the team working on Cyrodiil Champions is the same team that would be working on other PVP content, so their focus is on the test for the time being. Anything beyond that, we need to see how the test goes.
In other words, if we want them to keep meaningfully supporting and improving the existing battlegrounds, first of all we have to pray these Cyrodiil tests are over soon... and secondly they cannot introduce different battlegrounds (even if they were already developed) because these battlegrounds will require maintenance, updated rewards, improvements based on feedback... and most importantly: player base. Spending the very limited development time and resources into reintroducing something that's just going to be ridiculously long queues is development time and resources taken away from the team vs team battlegrounds, which do need a lot of changes, additions and improvements (they're also far from perfect).
This thread has been viewed a lot because it's on the front page of the forums... as a result of being bumped up by some random "Destruction of Battlegrounds" video being posted the moment the thread dips into the second or third page. And it's being bumped up right now by me posting this reply, but this is how public spaces work... if you're not there, other people will fill the void with their own agenda.
I do wish everyone could have a fun game mode for themselves, but there's a cost to everything. Towards the end of the 3-way BG era there were very few people left playing battlegrounds - I know this first hand from playing daily on the most populated megaserver. They decided to change the format and there's now a bigger player base... if they keep building on that maybe the player base might be big enough eventually to support new (or returning) game modes, but right now I think it'd just take away from the existing one both in player base & development resources without providing anything new due to the aforementioned population issues and queue times.
Let me translate that for you @Chrisilishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isFIv3-aHPY
The streamer hive mind is permanently fixed on one unifying goal: to keep the seal farm going for as long as possible by any means necessary.
It would burn the future of Battlegrounds and PVP itself for youtube videos.
Understanding that the vast majority would choose the 3-teams format has caused it to be beset by panic.
I don't BG very often...it's not super fun for me and I'm not very good at it. That said, at the core, 4x4 is now pretty binary...one winning team, one losing team..that's it. 4 people are going to have to do this all over again.
4x4x4 on the other hand...2 winning teams ( as I recall, 1st and 2nd place get the daily goody yes?), one losing team. It's a different, less boring dynamic. You can pretty much tell which team will win...not always...like when the teams are pretty even, but usually. A 3rd team was the wildcard....made it much more variable, not static like 2.
Please....bring back an additional 4x4x4 and 8x8x8.
what about disable group healing? No more healers.
and group shield and all buffs. Wouldn't that fix ball groups in Cyro as well?
I don't think he was either - more so in just inflating his score with the Critical Heal medals
This was one of the better BGs. Game usually places me on the winning team, where I don't get to do anything. My plan is to start posting scoreboards after the queue times problem is resolved.and then once again complaining the battleground is "lopsided" when his team loses... just another Monday.
@Decimus, thanks for your prompt and thoughtful response. I do wonder about the limited resources issue. I get there's only so many people on the ESO team, that like any business, the staff can only do so much with what time and resources they have but... this is a multi billion dollar game. A game that supposedly incorporates its player feedback into its operations. I understand it may take time to implement change especially on the heels of other changes. But I find it hard to credit the idea they're on a shoestring with no wiggle room. Or that reimplementing a single pre-existing Bg queue at the request of its players is beyond them or would stretch them so thin its impossible. Or that a 12 person queue would make that big a difference in the overall queue experience. The population would surely be past the point of recovery if 12 people could make or break it. In any case, thanks again for your response. I'll let ya know how that stamden works out.
Joy_Division wrote: »@Decimus, thanks for your prompt and thoughtful response. I do wonder about the limited resources issue. I get there's only so many people on the ESO team, that like any business, the staff can only do so much with what time and resources they have but... this is a multi billion dollar game. A game that supposedly incorporates its player feedback into its operations. I understand it may take time to implement change especially on the heels of other changes. But I find it hard to credit the idea they're on a shoestring with no wiggle room. Or that reimplementing a single pre-existing Bg queue at the request of its players is beyond them or would stretch them so thin its impossible. Or that a 12 person queue would make that big a difference in the overall queue experience. The population would surely be past the point of recovery if 12 people could make or break it. In any case, thanks again for your response. I'll let ya know how that stamden works out.
I am genuinely surprised that anyone who has played ESO can find it hard to believe ZOS has a shoestring budget.
Shocked.
Their changes/updates to combat have been glacial, projects like hybridization incomplete, Cyrodiil has been unchanged since 2019, nee PVE zones far less developed, more emphasis on crown store than content, the list goes on.
Since 2018 they have pretended the same person in charge of PvP (all modes) is somehow also in charge of combat (all modes).
I went to Zos as a class rep back in 2019, when they still were delivering 4 actuall content releases per month, my biggest impression was the actual devs who work on nuts and bolts on things like combat or say PvP (as oppoaed to animators, writers, pve stuff, etc) was tiny, and every suggestion we gave them was met by, "that's a good idea, but we've got to prioritize". Yeah, with same same guy in charge of pvp and combat, there's quite a long list of ideas that will never see the light of day.
The people who want to return to the old 4v4v4 modes are asking Zos to devote those stretched reources to bring back a system that was unpopular such that they went 5 years without ever bothering to add to it or even give us a new map. It seems so easy for them to do, but then again it seems so easy for zos to finish necro blastbones, so easy to just raise cyrodiils pop cap, so easy to update awful guild tabbard, so easy to recognize mag sorc is broken, so easy to see stacking Hots is busted, so easy to complete hybridization so i can chug a weapon damage pot as a templar, etc. All of this stuff is so easy yet has not been done for years becuase zos has a shoestring reources when it comes to development and updating ESO
How does the MMR actually work? To me, it doesn't work at all unless ZOS is making it easy for one team to slaughter the other side.
I don't think he was either - more so in just inflating his score with the Critical Heal medals
Yes. Which is why I want to reduce the critical heal medals score by 80%. Reverse psychology.This was one of the better BGs. Game usually places me on the winning team, where I don't get to do anything. My plan is to start posting scoreboards after the queue times problem is resolved.and then once again complaining the battleground is "lopsided" when his team loses... just another Monday.
When you did this with the match I posted, you stacked three S tier players on exactly one of the teams, two top DDs and a top healer, whose combined 2 deaths were both to the 9-0 player on this team. Why yes, I will dream of rolling a bunch of mid to very good players with a god tier random group, while 2nd and 3rd fight each other instead of us...There are multiple ways to distribute these players in a 4v4v4 that would be fun for everyone. All we can do now is dream of what could have been 😢
xylena_lazarow wrote: »When you did this with the match I posted, you stacked three S tier players on exactly one of the teams, two top DDs and a top healer, whose combined 2 deaths were both to the 9-0 player on this team. Why yes, I will dream of rolling a bunch of mid to very good players with a god tier random group, while 2nd and 3rd fight each other instead of us...There are multiple ways to distribute these players in a 4v4v4 that would be fun for everyone. All we can do now is dream of what could have been 😢
Avran_Sylt wrote: »
I don't think he was either - more so in just inflating his score with the Critical Heal medals
Yes. Which is why I want to reduce the critical heal medals score by 80%. Reverse psychology.This was one of the better BGs. Game usually places me on the winning team, where I don't get to do anything. My plan is to start posting scoreboards after the queue times problem is resolved.and then once again complaining the battleground is "lopsided" when his team loses... just another Monday.
You should post them now, given so far as we know MMR is calculated off of scoreboard score and getting too high of a score via being a dedicated healer just inflates it and causes you to have horrid queue times...
Whinging about bad queue times and saying the matches are lopsided without any evidence to the latter helps few.
Were you a healer? What was your medal score?
What gamemode were you playing at the time? maybe there are certain game-modes that would better suit a random audience?
Even if you've provided insight into those topics somewhere in these 11 pages, it's kinda hard to justify searching through all the video posts for any actually constructive criticism given the deluge of negative fluff.
Avran_Sylt wrote: »
I don't think he was either - more so in just inflating his score with the Critical Heal medals
Yes. Which is why I want to reduce the critical heal medals score by 80%. Reverse psychology.This was one of the better BGs. Game usually places me on the winning team, where I don't get to do anything. My plan is to start posting scoreboards after the queue times problem is resolved.and then once again complaining the battleground is "lopsided" when his team loses... just another Monday.
You should post them now, given so far as we know MMR is calculated off of scoreboard score and getting too high of a score via being a dedicated healer just inflates it and causes you to have horrid queue times...
Whinging about bad queue times and saying the matches are lopsided without any evidence to the latter helps few.
Were you a healer? What was your medal score?
What gamemode were you playing at the time? maybe there are certain game-modes that would better suit a random audience?
Even if you've provided insight into those topics somewhere in these 11 pages, it's kinda hard to justify searching through all the video posts for any actually constructive criticism given the deluge of negative fluff.
Everything goes back to the original post:
''Balanced matches are the one thing that could draw in newcomers to become interested in PVP itself (not just the daily). Unfortunately what we have right now is the complete opposite. Even with the increased rewards, we're currently experiencing a cycle of self-destruction that starts with lopsided matches, leading to fewer players and increased queue times.''
I'm providing evidence that the queue times are enormous even in the most populated queue (8v8 solo), and Decimus is providing evidence that the matches are lopsided.
Avran_Sylt wrote: »
I don't think he was either - more so in just inflating his score with the Critical Heal medals
Yes. Which is why I want to reduce the critical heal medals score by 80%. Reverse psychology.This was one of the better BGs. Game usually places me on the winning team, where I don't get to do anything. My plan is to start posting scoreboards after the queue times problem is resolved.and then once again complaining the battleground is "lopsided" when his team loses... just another Monday.
You should post them now, given so far as we know MMR is calculated off of scoreboard score and getting too high of a score via being a dedicated healer just inflates it and causes you to have horrid queue times...
Whinging about bad queue times and saying the matches are lopsided without any evidence to the latter helps few.
Were you a healer? What was your medal score?
What gamemode were you playing at the time? maybe there are certain game-modes that would better suit a random audience?
Even if you've provided insight into those topics somewhere in these 11 pages, it's kinda hard to justify searching through all the video posts for any actually constructive criticism given the deluge of negative fluff.
Everything goes back to the original post:
''Balanced matches are the one thing that could draw in newcomers to become interested in PVP itself (not just the daily). Unfortunately what we have right now is the complete opposite. Even with the increased rewards, we're currently experiencing a cycle of self-destruction that starts with lopsided matches, leading to fewer players and increased queue times.''
I'm providing evidence that the queue times are enormous even in the most populated queue (8v8 solo), and Decimus is providing evidence that the matches are lopsided.
Except that all of my queue times across 20 characters are less than 10 minutes 99% of the time since I don't try to queue in middle of the night after playing one character and one character only abusing critical healing medals and inflating my scores, and then post some weeks old video complaining about a long queue time.
As for matches being lopsided... that's always been the case? It's just that some of us are not only good at 3rd partying, but also fighting equal numbers.
Just the stamblade stats from back when old PvpMeter worked:
Look how different compared to current BGs! /s
I'm sorry your sorc healer/killstealer feels less efficient this patch Haki, having to heal 4 additional targets with heals affecting 1-2 people at a time has that effect... as does not having a 3rd team do the damage for your Mage's Wrath to steal the kill.
It is what it is, it's a lot easier to adapt than spam a forum thread with some irrelevant videos and try create some impression most people don't like the Team vs Team format when the opposite is the case.
I think this is new. Sure, no one is denying that some of the old BGs were lopsided, but it has already been formally demonstrated multiple times HOW the three-teams BGs could have been balanced. The issue is that we have been unable to identify a way to do the same for two-teams BGs.As for matches being lopsided... that's always been the case?