Battlegrounds: Cycle of Self-Destruction

Haki_7 · February 18

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 38: Waiting 20 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/NA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kAH-g4B1s0

xylena_lazarow · February 18

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

You want to be able to parse on someone who you perceive as weaker without anyone getting in the way.

This is a bizarre and incorrect accusation.

I play to win the game. If I'm in 2nd place, and the 3rd place team jumps me while I'm trying to push 1st place, all they've done is help 1st place widen its lead. They have not advanced their own position. They have gained nothing as a team. Only the team already winning, who was not even part of the engagement, has advanced.

So yes, I would like to compete without opponents who shoot their own team in the foot just to troll.

Decimus · February 18

Fun Battlegrounds Chapter 10: Waiting 1 minutes 19 seconds for a fun match! (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/vErz7LHTq1k?si=SayYpSQ1m2ueU-yj

Thumbless_Bot · February 19

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

You want to be able to parse on someone who you perceive as weaker without anyone getting in the way.

This is a bizarre and incorrect accusation.

I play to win the game. If I'm in 2nd place, and the 3rd place team jumps me while I'm trying to push 1st place, all they've done is help 1st place widen its lead. They have not advanced their own position. They have gained nothing as a team. Only the team already winning, who was not even part of the engagement, has advanced.

So yes, I would like to compete without opponents who shoot their own team in the foot just to troll.

No it's not. Apologies if I offended you as that was and is not my intent. What i did was try summarize what you said. Literally word for word you wrote, "I enjoy going after them here without any seals to get in my way". This has nothing to do with first or second place. It has nothing to do with objectives. It has to do with you killing others who are trying to x and no one there to stop you. I think any reasonable person would agree. Even when viewed in context of your complete response it's still clear you want to go after the seal clubbers when no one is in the way and nothing else.

Maybe you meant something different... who knows.

Now you are saying something different. Thats cool.

Hopefully they let us have 3 sided back. That is all I care about.

xylena_lazarow · February 19

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

it's still clear you want to go after the seal clubbers

Going after the clubbers is the same as going after the seals to you? Huh?

Thumbless_Bot · February 19

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

it's still clear you want to go after the seal clubbers

Going after the clubbers is the same as going after the seals to you? Huh?

That's bgs now more than ever. Kill or be killed. You must have joined a match in flight where your team was getting clubbed that completely changed. Or maybe someone dropped and you went from losing to winning. Or vice versa. That is really one of my main issues with two teams. They are much more lopsided and the slight differences in skill and builds present themselves in a mucb more pronounced way. We all have different opinions on what equates to balance, but, for me, having one team get 60 kills and the other get 2 in a crazy king is not balanced. We just have to agree to disagree on these things. We've been at it for two months on this thread... or at least it feels like we have...

DaniimalsSF · February 19

Just give us 3 queues:
8v8 solo or group up to 4 objectives
4v4v4 solo or group objectives
16 player ffa solo deathmatch

Moonspawn · February 19

DaniimalsSF wrote: »

Just give us 3 queues:
8v8 solo or group up to 4 objectives
4v4v4 solo or group objectives
16 player ffa solo deathmatch

I'm gonna queue as a healer for 16 ffa solo deathmatch 😎
but seriously, something like this would already be included in the Custom Lobbies suggestion.

Haki_7 · February 19

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 39: Waiting 25 minutes for a lopsided match inactivity kick (Solo 8v8 PC/NA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL3GJV1Ht58

Desiato · February 20

I thought that during a PVP event, we should see a resolution of what are generally thought to be low pop queue issues in BGs.

Nope! I choose an 8v8 solo random, wait a few minutes to get in, wait a couple of minutes in the BG "waiting for players", and then we're all kicked because there weren't enough players!

Why does this game struggle so much with basic functions for years?

Haki_7 · February 21

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 40: Waiting 36 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/NA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyBaEwMTpJM

Chrisilis · February 21

.

Desiato wrote: »

I thought that during a PVP event, we should see a resolution of what are generally thought to be low pop queue issues in BGs.

Nope! I choose an 8v8 solo random, wait a few minutes to get in, wait a couple of minutes in the BG "waiting for players", and then we're all kicked because there weren't enough players!

Why does this game struggle so much with basic functions for years?

I got kicked for not enough players twice yesterday. While getting kicked for not enough players isn't super unusual it doesn't usually happen twice in one day or even every couple days. Its got to be a system issue and not a population issue. There's no way there weren't enough players on day one of a golden pursuit pvp event to fill an 8v8. Systems just wonky.

master_vanargand · February 21

The fun BG has been completely destroyed and turned into trash.
Maybe a spy from another company has become the game creator and is destroying ESO.
Do game creaters enjoy spreading sadness on the world with a BG downgrade that nobody wants?

Haki_7 · February 21

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 41: Waiting 25 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/NA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBU2GFS4SCE

Decimus · February 22

Fun Battlegrounds Chapter 11: Waiting 2 minutes 50 seconds for a fun match! (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/9KBmsP12kWY?si=UiQ7PPtiBRmuSgGO

Haki_7 · February 22

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 42: Waiting 23 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/NA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kAPl6Ygj70

Desiato · February 23

I can't understand why killing other players, what defines a game as pvp, contributes so little to scoring in most modes.

In so many matches, the actual mvps of the match score at the bottom it seems.

I wouldn't care if it wasn't a factor in rewards and quest completions.

Desiato · February 23

Imagine designing a ctf game in which the flag can be defended from the respawn area.... I can't even fathom how this happens.

jle30303 · February 24

Desiato wrote: »

I can't understand why killing other players, what defines a game as pvp, contributes so little to scoring in most modes.

In so many matches, the actual mvps of the match score at the bottom it seems.

I wouldn't care if it wasn't a factor in rewards and quest completions.

Because it is an encouragement to play the mechanics of the mode, not turn it into Deathmatch.

You get points for holding a capture point, attacking a capture point, killing players at a capture point, defending a capture point from enemy players. Killing outside that zone? Doesn't get you personal points because you're missing, quite literally, the POINT.

Chaosball? You get points from attacking a chaosball carrier, defending a chaosball carrier, BEING a chaosball carrier, kill people while carrying the chaosball, healing a chaosball carrier (including yourself). Fighting someone who's not near the chaosball (or one of them)? That's not the objective.

Capture the Relic? That's what you're supposed to do. Steal the enemy relic, support and heal your relic carrier or kill ther attackers, attack enemies who have stolen your relic, recover your relic if it's stolen, bring the enemy relic back home. All these things are the things that score points for your character. IT IS NOT DEATHMATCH.

VoxAdActa · February 24

jle30303 wrote: »

All these things are the things that score points for your character. IT IS NOT DEATHMATCH.

The number of times I've gotten yelled at for playing the game as described instead of "helping" my team deathmatch... and then reading this thread and seeing stuff like "The worst player has the most points! They only killed like 1 person!"; "Why did the worse team win this match [screenshot]?? They got stomped in kills!"; and "Three teams allows the worst team to win all the time just by getting points, like, ew! What even is that??"

I contend that the team that understands the game mode is better at that game mode than the team that is trying to turn it into a fake deathmatch, but that does not seem to be the prevailing opinion in BGs.

We definitely need an Endless Deathmatch mode so people who actually enjoy capture/domination games can play them without hearing about how they're so bad at BGs.

Calastir · February 24

One match my PUG got stomped as usual, so I tried to lift morale by saying we're good and it's not our fault these matches are lopsided, but my spying teammate felt the need to tell me we only lost because my gear was crap. (being max Spell Power Cure/Armor of the Trainee/Shadowrend as a Templar healer...)

Thumbless_Bot · February 24

jle30303 wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I can't understand why killing other players, what defines a game as pvp, contributes so little to scoring in most modes.

In so many matches, the actual mvps of the match score at the bottom it seems.

I wouldn't care if it wasn't a factor in rewards and quest completions.

Because it is an encouragement to play the mechanics of the mode, not turn it into Deathmatch.

You get points for holding a capture point, attacking a capture point, killing players at a capture point, defending a capture point from enemy players. Killing outside that zone? Doesn't get you personal points because you're missing, quite literally, the POINT.

Chaosball? You get points from attacking a chaosball carrier, defending a chaosball carrier, BEING a chaosball carrier, kill people while carrying the chaosball, healing a chaosball carrier (including yourself). Fighting someone who's not near the chaosball (or one of them)? That's not the objective.

Capture the Relic? That's what you're supposed to do. Steal the enemy relic, support and heal your relic carrier or kill ther attackers, attack enemies who have stolen your relic, recover your relic if it's stolen, bring the enemy relic back home. All these things are the things that score points for your character. IT IS NOT DEATHMATCH.

I defended my relic and can get 30 kills but still get zero points.

Scoring needs adjustments here.

Deathmatch is part of every format. Killing your enemy prevents them from taking objectives and makes it easier for your team to do the same.

Scoring needs adjustments here too.

Certain heals provide medal score. The same should be true for damage.

Scoring needs adjustment here three.

I am sure there are more examples but it's too early and I haven't had enough coffee.

Desiato · February 24

jle30303 wrote: »

Because it is an encouragement to play the mechanics of the mode, not turn it into Deathmatch.

Good luck completing any of your objectives without killing other players. The player who captures the relic is not doing more for the team than the players killing the opposition -- or otherwise occupying their time -- to allow them to do that.

The scoring is rubbish. It's a team game mode and the rewards should be team based. If there are individual rewards, the fraggers should be recognized for their very important contributions too.

VoxAdActa wrote: »

We definitely need an Endless Deathmatch mode so people who actually enjoy capture/domination games can play them without hearing about how they're so bad at BGs.

I dislike pure deathmatches and prefer objective based gameplay -- in general. Combat is boring to me without the context of objectives.

Regardless, pvp remains a foundational aspect of all BG modes and it's crazy the skilled combatants that actually dictate who wins and lose most matches don't get the credit they deserve.

Moonspawn · February 24

Desiato wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Because it is an encouragement to play the mechanics of the mode, not turn it into Deathmatch.

Good luck completing any of your objectives without killing other players. The player who captures the relic is not doing more for the team than the players killing the opposition -- or otherwise occupying their time -- to allow them to do that.

The scoring is rubbish. It's a team game mode and the rewards should be team based. If there are individual rewards, the fraggers should be recognized for their very important contributions too.

The scoring system we have now would work if all the fighting was centralized . I think the critical heal medal would be the only one in need of toning down, and then we'd have a functional MMR for the first time ever (if it is based on medal score).

VoxAdActa · February 24

Desiato wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Because it is an encouragement to play the mechanics of the mode, not turn it into Deathmatch.

Good luck completing any of your objectives without killing other players. The player who captures the relic is not doing more for the team than the players killing the opposition -- or otherwise occupying their time -- to allow them to do that.

The scoring is rubbish. It's a team game mode and the rewards should be team based. If there are individual rewards, the fraggers should be recognized for their very important contributions too.

VoxAdActa wrote: »

We definitely need an Endless Deathmatch mode so people who actually enjoy capture/domination games can play them without hearing about how they're so bad at BGs.

I dislike pure deathmatches and prefer objective based gameplay -- in general. Combat is boring to me without the context of objectives.

Regardless, pvp remains a foundational aspect of all BG modes and it's crazy the skilled combatants that actually dictate who wins and lose most matches don't get the credit they deserve.

If you start handing out points for non-objective-based kills/assists, you turn every mode into a de facto deathmatch. People already ignore the objectives; now they'll be incentivized to do so by getting point-based wins for it.

minnowfaun · February 24

radiostar wrote: »

The big problem so far for me is players leaving when they think their team is losing. It usually turns out the team could win if only they had stayed and fought. Your team CAN come from behind and win, if you stay and help. But if 3 players leave, ya, then it's over.

As a player who almost always stays til the end, no, it doesn't turn out that the team could win.

Desiato · February 24

VoxAdActa wrote: »

If you start handing out points for non-objective-based kills/assists, you turn every mode into a de facto deathmatch. People already ignore the objectives; now they'll be incentivized to do so by getting point-based wins for it.

ESO doesn't exist in a bubble. Lots of other games don't have such weird scoring yet players are engaged in the modes they.... CHOOSE.

So to start, stop ramming chaosball down everyone's throat and let people choose which modes they want to play. If some modes aren't popular enough to be sustainable, then perhaps they should be reevaluated.

Then make all rewards based on team performance. Sure, there are actual MVPs, but the current scoring system doesn't expose them, so eliminate that evaluation entirely.

VoxAdActa · February 24

Desiato wrote: »

VoxAdActa wrote: »

If you start handing out points for non-objective-based kills/assists, you turn every mode into a de facto deathmatch. People already ignore the objectives; now they'll be incentivized to do so by getting point-based wins for it.

ESO doesn't exist in a bubble. Lots of other games don't have such weird scoring yet players are engaged in the modes they.... CHOOSE.

So to start, stop ramming chaosball down everyone's throat and let people choose which modes they want to play. If some modes aren't popular enough to be sustainable, then perhaps they should be reevaluated.

Then make all rewards based on team performance. Sure, there are actual MVPs, but the current scoring system doesn't expose them, so eliminate that evaluation entirely.

Again, people already ignore the objectives without getting points for doing so. Not only that, people already chew out BGers who don't ignore the objectives in favor of getting a high kill count. It's happening repeatedly in this very thread (ref: the screenshots of the "worse" team winning because they played the objectives, which is treated like cheating for some reason). Other games may not have this issue, but ESO absolutely does.

Giving out points for getting kills with no regard for the objective removes all need to play the objective. The "ignore the objective in favor of deathmatching" will only get worse.

The players that want to be recognized for their great k/d ratio are the only people who will benefit from handing out points for not playing the objective. It's functionally identical to advocating for making deathmatch the only game mode.

Desiato · February 24

VoxAdActa wrote: »

Again, people already ignore the objectives without getting points for doing so. Not only that, people already chew out BGers who don't ignore the objectives in favor of getting a high kill count. It's happening repeatedly in this very thread (ref: the screenshots of the "worse" team winning because they played the objectives, which is treated like cheating for some reason). Other games may not have this issue, but ESO absolutely does.

The key word in my response was choice. Players won't buy into a mode they dislike and didn't choose.

When the event is over, and probably before, I won't step foot in BGs for a long time because I truly hate every minute I spend in a chaosball match. I don't want to be a ww or vamp and I don't want to avoid the enemy or be a healbot to get points.

I might just start leaving every chaosball match because it makes me question why I am even playing eso if I'm spending time doing something I hate.

Let players choose which modes they play and you won't have to twist their arms for them to play it properly.

Decimus · February 24

Desiato wrote: »

VoxAdActa wrote: »

Again, people already ignore the objectives without getting points for doing so. Not only that, people already chew out BGers who don't ignore the objectives in favor of getting a high kill count. It's happening repeatedly in this very thread (ref: the screenshots of the "worse" team winning because they played the objectives, which is treated like cheating for some reason). Other games may not have this issue, but ESO absolutely does.

The key word in my response was choice. Players won't buy into a mode they dislike and didn't choose.

When the event is over, and probably before, I won't step foot in BGs for a long time because I truly hate every minute I spend in a chaosball match. I don't want to be a ww or vamp and I don't want to avoid the enemy or be a healbot to get points.

I might just start leaving every chaosball match because it makes me question why I am even playing eso if I'm spending time doing something I hate.

Let players choose which modes they play and you won't have to twist their arms for them to play it properly.

Why play for points, they get you literally nothing in 8v8 - it's much more fun to play for win rate instead.

Ideally they'd revamp the points system entirely to reward things you do to win the match more, but until then I'd recommend ignoring the points and focusing on the win.

Lacking an official way to track BGs performance, there's an addon called "Impressive Stats" that you can use to track your BGs: you can see each individual BG & select between character, see your overall win rate, KDR, damage done/taken, healing done etc

When it comes to actually winning the Chaosball BGs, you can be very impactful beyond carrying the ball or playing a healer/tank: just focus down whoever picks it up on enemy team and let your team mates carry it.