Get rid of Rushing Agony from PvP right NOW please

xylena_lazarow · January 13

There is no defending this absolute garbage set. It has run its course. Please make it "monsters only" or something. I'm now just going to copy paste what I wrote in the PvP Combat forum.

No it's not literally uncounterable or unbeatable. But it brings absolutely nothing positive to the game. It's worthless against ball groups, while punishing randoms just for existing. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. It doesn't enable solo bomber as a playstyle, sorry, you're not doing anything by killing afk'ers. It enables the sweatiest of tryhard organized groups, those who need absolutely zero help, to automate their bombs. Disgusting.

It breaks the game's own rules regarding pulls and disabling effects in general. Being yanked across the battlefield is even worse than a hard stun in most cases, yet zero immunity into a consecutive hard stun (or additional pulls). DK chain and Silver Leash are expensive active single target skills, yet they apply immunity. Rushing Agony is a passive free braindead proc, yet it's AoE and doesn't apply immunity? Huh?

MincMincMinc · January 13

This is why it seems the current combat team isnt talking with whatever team is making new sets.

Rushing fails on three fronts

There is no clear telegraph that you are about to be pulled. Why dont chains shoot out from the target and then pull after 1s. It should be a clear so enemies who get chained can react and block the chain.
When pulled it doesnt apply immunity which none of us should have to tell the combat team why this is a bad thing.
After those two get fixed we then have to ask the question why this set even does damage? You do the strongest effect in the game just to also do damage equivalent to an aoe burst skill that is a delayed timeable skill.

katorga · January 13

hahaha...nerfed way of fire in U45 instead.

xylena_lazarow · January 13

katorga wrote: »

hahaha...nerfed way of fire in U45 instead.

LOL yeah incredible. WoF wasn't even meta anymore, now it's on the trash heap. If they're so worried about "free" effects how about, I don't know, free AoE mega pull that ignores immunity and does free burst damage?

Markytous · January 14

At the very minimum Rush of Agony should interact with CC Immunity and thus should not pull a CC Immune player or monster.

katorga · January 14

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

hahaha...nerfed way of fire in U45 instead.

LOL yeah incredible. WoF wasn't even meta anymore, now it's on the trash heap. If they're so worried about "free" effects how about, I don't know, free AoE mega pull that ignores immunity and does free burst damage?

The only meta I've seen this month...ball groups of wardens using northern storm, fissure and whirling blades and a few running rush of agony (the only proc set showing up in my recaps in these encounters). You might see the occasional proc blade, classic mag sorc, or pug players who missed the memo on the tarnished nerf, but mostly wardens.

MincMincMinc · January 14

katorga wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

hahaha...nerfed way of fire in U45 instead.

LOL yeah incredible. WoF wasn't even meta anymore, now it's on the trash heap. If they're so worried about "free" effects how about, I don't know, free AoE mega pull that ignores immunity and does free burst damage?

The only meta I've seen this month...ball groups of wardens using northern storm, fissure and whirling blades and a few running rush of agony (the only proc set showing up in my recaps in these encounters). You might see the occasional proc blade, classic mag sorc, or pug players who missed the memo on the tarnished nerf, but mostly wardens.

Always love that vamp lost bat swarm and warden essentially got a better bat swarm.

dark_hunterxmg · January 14

If we're going to chenge Rush of Agony for not obeying CC rules, we need to change Dragon Leap for the same reason.

Just_Attivi · January 14

MincMincMinc wrote: »

This is why it seems the current combat team isnt talking with whatever team is making new sets.

Rushing fails on three fronts
When pulled it doesnt apply immunity which none of us should have to tell the combat team why this is a bad thing.

I think you might need to spell it out why its a bad thing, and I need to leave this sentence at that, lest I get moderated shudder

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

If we're going to chenge Rush of Agony for not obeying CC rules, we need to change Dragon Leap for the same reason.

At least that is an ultimate... a player needs to dump their burst there(and also must be a DK) , vs having a free no-CC pull into a CC burst every 8 seconds on any class. Though I can agree that unavoidable movement hinderances are obnoxious. Alternatively perhaps DK could just have a bigger AOE impact to help it always land, instead of the 99% snare. But I don't want to derail a thread beyond this, so I'll just agree that yes, CC rule breaking sets/skills should be looked at.

xylena_lazarow · January 14

Just_Attivi wrote: »

I think you might need to spell it out why its a bad thing

They don't need to spell it out because I spelled it out in my OP, and my post I copied my OP from.

Joy_Division · January 14

That the devs have allowed this nonsense night after night, year after year, just shows how out of touch they are.

xylena_lazarow · January 14

Joy_Division wrote: »

That the devs have allowed this nonsense night after night, year after year, just shows how out of touch they are.

Yeah but after 6 months and 2000 posts, they did in fact nerf Hardened Ward. So let's do this.

Thumbless_Bot · January 14

Zos should eliminate all items/sets that break rules or deviate from standards.

Roa
Wrath of elements dot tic per second
I think there is a nb heal not impacted by battle spirit... I forget tbh

I am sure there are others.

There is a reason these sets/items/skills are used so frequently in pvp... they create imbalance because they break the rules.

Kartalin · January 14

Markytous wrote: »

At the very minimum Rush of Agony should interact with CC Immunity and thus should not pull a CC Immune player or monster.

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

If we're going to chenge Rush of Agony for not obeying CC rules, we need to change Dragon Leap for the same reason.

It doesn't ignore CC immunity though. This is why I'll drink an immovable pot when another ball group is on an offensive push against our group, so i'll have a few seconds where I don't have to block cast to avoid being pulled while healing.

Not saying it isn't OP, just not broken in that specific way.

Thumbless_Bot · January 14

Kartalin wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

At the very minimum Rush of Agony should interact with CC Immunity and thus should not pull a CC Immune player or monster.

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

If we're going to chenge Rush of Agony for not obeying CC rules, we need to change Dragon Leap for the same reason.

It doesn't ignore CC immunity though. This is why I'll drink an immovable pot when another ball group is on an offensive push against our group, so i'll have a few seconds where I don't have to block cast to avoid being pulled while healing.

Not saying it isn't OP, just not broken in that specific way.

Doesn't ignore it, just doesn't apply cc immunity, meaning you can become a pinball. No bueno.

I can still hear the music playing and the sounds of hitting the bumpers... memories...

xylena_lazarow · January 14

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Doesn't ignore it, just doesn't apply cc immunity, meaning you can become a pinball. No bueno.

It shouldn't ignore immunity, but then you introduce lag on top of everything else cracked about RoA...

Aldoss · January 14

As stated before, this set in its current working order, only further fuels the current stale tank meta.

You sit on back bar and turtle, spam heals, and build ult. Then, once every 20-30sec, you or a group member charges, pulls, hard ccs, and dumps a balorgh buffed ult. Didn't work? Turtle up. Rinse. Repeat.

Boring.

Jak3Bartez · January 14

I don't think any pull set should exist in Pvp, you're just punishing melee players who want to brawl in big fights, but cant especially if they have slower reaction times they're just constantly pulled in and blown up, it's one reason why most people just sit on the walls light attacking from range so they can actually feel like they're doing something.

Soraka · January 14

It's so buggy it's not even the kind of thing that can be argued is a get good issue. It's a mess.

Nathanbreakfast · January 14

All they have to do is make Rush of Agony proc behave like every other CC in the game and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Thumbless_Bot · January 15

Nathanbreakfast wrote: »

All they have to do is make Rush of Agony proc behave like every other CC in the game and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

So, you're saying zos should make this set... any set, follow the rules... that they created.

sounds legit.

Skoomah · January 15

The same crowd that wanted Azureblight nerfed. But also want ball groups nerfed.

Interesting…

Fun is next on the list probably

katorga · January 15

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Doesn't ignore it, just doesn't apply cc immunity, meaning you can become a pinball. No bueno.

It shouldn't ignore immunity, but then you introduce lag on top of everything else cracked about RoA...

Ya, I've noticed the ball groups not running any CC other than Rush of Agony to maximize the pinball effect.

Balorgh, mech acuity, RoA, warden...it is so bad at this point I was running into balls last night made up entirely of level 18-20 wardens in Greyhost. Obvious that they are power leveling to the point were they have northern storm, whirling blades, fissure...exploiting the meta.

xylena_lazarow · January 15

Skoomah wrote: »

The same crowd that wanted Azureblight nerfed. But also want ball groups nerfed.

Not even the ball groups are bothering to defend Rushing Agony. Every ball group player I've talked to agrees that it's terrible design, and Cyro ball groups keep having to consolidate guilds because they're bleeding players.

I've written that by nerfing Azure but not RoA, ZOS was sending a clear message that this PvP is for sweaty organized groups only, that nobody else should even bother showing up. I don't think that's the message they intend, but that was it.

xylena_lazarow · January 21

10.3.1 still not nerfed, Rushing Agony ruins BGs as well as Cyro combat.

Tinkerhorn · January 21

At this point I would just like an explanation from ZoS as to why they believe the set is fine. Clearly they see no problem in spite of the almost unanimous disdain for the set.

sarahthes · January 21

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

10.3.1 still not nerfed, Rushing Agony ruins BGs as well as Cyro combat.

There were almost no adjustments to anything in this week's pts. They are focusing on Vengeance campaign at this time.

xylena_lazarow · January 21

sarahthes wrote: »

There were almost no adjustments to anything in this week's pts. They are focusing on Vengeance campaign at this time.

I'm aware, which is why I mentioned BGs, which won't be affected by Vengeance rules. I'm still enjoying the 8v8 solo queue, the only glaring mechanical outlier I'm noticing is the pull proc nonsense. Sorcs are more manageable now.

Thumbless_Bot · January 22

I'm in a 4v4 DM, where there is ( or, ostensibly, should be) no lag. I get pulled by ROA past two pillars, two times into burst damage that I can't block or do anything to mitigate because I get desynched... in a BG... so it's hitting me before I get there. My ping is 80 the entire time. Two pillars means it's going WAY past 12 meters.

So the suggestion that this trash set is only a problem in laggy cyro is wrong.

ZOS, you have created a set that your own code can't handle and that is completely broken from a balance perspective. unless your ultimate goal is to get people to stop playing pvp in this game, of any kind, please remove this set from all aspects of pvp.

Let's examine why this set is broken. When ESO was first created we had DK Chains... a single target ability that pulls one person and gives them CC immunity. Chains costs roughly 3700 magicka. This set can pull any number of people and doesn't apply immunity. As a straw man, let's say it's a 4v4 BG...

If the wearer pulls all four people, they get 3700*4 worth of magicka, at the cost of 3700 (because they used chains), so 11,100 free magicka (3*3700 free pulls) and causing all 4 opponents to lose at least one if not two gcd from the pull.

They get a delayed burst damage to everyone, so its aoe and hits harder

The pull does not obey the 12m range (why in the world the pull is that wide and is not limited to pve is absolutely ridiculous to begin with)

They can apply damage to you while you are en route to their location

This proc is guaranteed every 8 seconds, which is completely ridiculous. If this was an ultimate, then maybe it would be balanced, but it's not... it's every 8 seconds.

While en route you are likely desynched from doing damage and have to reorient yourself.

last, but certainly not least, the set doesn't even obey the rules of the game that ZOS created.

These new BGs are bad enough and this set is only making it worse.

Please remove.

@ZOS_Kevin please send this one of your numerophiles who crunch numbers looking at balance. It's broken regardless, but having hard data that supports a change is always good.

Just_Attivi · January 22

Yea, I was gonna write a whole rant about this set, but honestly, it really boils down to this set needs to apply CC immunity. I think the range is busted, I think the telegraph stinks and needs improvement (no, Holding block and slowly walking out shouldnt be the solution every time anyone gap closes), and I think the damage scaling could be dialed back a little or the cooldown could be increased a little, but the big note here is THE SET APPLIES A CROWD CONTROL, WHICH REMOVES YOUR ABILITY TO CONTROL YOUR CHARACTER, THEREFORE IT NEEDS TO APPLY CC IMMUNITY, LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE THAT CC'S IN THE GAME.

Remember when you were a kid, playing Monopoly, or maybe battleship, and that one friend had house rules that basically always gave them an advantage and went clearly against the rulebook? Or it was a rule they didn't tell you about but 'oh its just how we always played, by the way, I win" you know? Rush of Agony is that friend.

the1andonlyskwex · January 22

This may seem like a silly question, but is "Rushing Agony" a non-English translation thing? I see it on these forums a lot, even though the set is called "Rush of Agony" in-game.