Hardened Ward heal making it to live is a mistake and needs to be changed

Meurto · August 19

How long have we been talking about this now? Since March? That means for 5 months now we have been dealing with with this without so much as an acknowledgement? They always say go for the low hanging fruit and in this case the fruit is hanging so low it is on the ground. If they can't bend over and pick it up I don't have a lot of faith that any of the more onerous issues will ever be addressed.

TechMaybeHic · August 19

We should be kind to the devs. I am starting to think they do not get the needed resources to support them but who knows. Feels like there is limited human bandwidth

Afterip · August 19

I think ZOS will start doing something if WardSorc will start breaking pve content. Until then WardSorc is fine and ZOS cant see anything that deserve nerf.

StaticWave · August 20

Considering this thread has consistently stayed at the top of this section of the forums, I have no doubt ZOS knows about Ward's overperformance.

I think Ward is getting the Corrosive Armor treatment. It's a combat balance issue for sure, but it's not as much of an issue in a long list of issues they need to address. It took Corrosive Armor 2 years to receive a nerf, so I'm thinking it may take another year for Ward to be addressed.

Bushido2513 · August 20

StaticWave wrote: »

Considering this thread has consistently stayed at the top of this section of the forums, I have no doubt ZOS knows about Ward's overperformance.

I think Ward is getting the Corrosive Armor treatment. It's a combat balance issue for sure, but it's not as much of an issue in a long list of issues they need to address. It took Corrosive Armor 2 years to receive a nerf, so I'm thinking it may take another year for Ward to be addressed.

Honestly I think most people have just adjusted and moved on. While I can technically agree it needs a review I can say from that I see in pvp after time has passed on my platform, it's not much of a big deal.

I say that because for me I see a healthy population of templar's, wardens, and nbs with the Arcanist and necros coming in after that. I can only speak of what I see when I'm on and what I run into. I do of course see sorcs but not so many that I want to not even play the class because it's boring to fight the same skills.

I used to see comments in chat about sorc shields and even from friends but now not much.

I personally don't use ward at the highest level because a toned down version works well for me and I don't want to have to adjust much whenever they get around to it.

That being said I'm still curious to see how things go with the new vamp and how much more damage players will be taking including sorcs

xylena_lazarow · August 20

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Honestly I think most people have just adjusted and moved on.

Considering this thread has been going half a year, no they haven't. The Undeath change is awesome, u43 is so far one of the best PvP patches in a while, which makes Hardened Ward even more of an obvious outlier.

TechMaybeHic · August 20

Undeath nerf has made mages wrath worth slotting for me as well. That and AOE curses are pretty sweet

TBH; makes me want to get the plar out and see what RO looks like. RO with VD from a zerg?

Bushido2513 · August 20

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Honestly I think most people have just adjusted and moved on.

Considering this thread has been going half a year, no they haven't. The Undeath change is awesome, u43 is so far one of the best PvP patches in a while, which makes Hardened Ward even more of an obvious outlier.

There's people talking in the forum and people playing the game. This thread is just a few people talking and not really a good sampling of the larger population. That's why I said most and not everyone and even then that's just a guess based on my own experiences and what I see people playing when I'm on the game. Others might be in an echo chamber of ward hate for all I know 😂.

Bushido2513 · August 20

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Undeath nerf has made mages wrath worth slotting for me as well. That and AOE curses are pretty sweet

TBH; makes me want to get the plar out and see what RO looks like. RO with VD from a zerg?

I can never figure out what to leave on the table for wrath? Would be nice to not always have to burst people with just combos and spam when get low and won't die

TechMaybeHic · August 20

Bushido2513 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Undeath nerf has made mages wrath worth slotting for me as well. That and AOE curses are pretty sweet

TBH; makes me want to get the plar out and see what RO looks like. RO with VD from a zerg?

I can never figure out what to leave on the table for wrath? Would be nice to not always have to burst people with just combos and spam when get low and won't die

I took of mage light. My shield dipped like 500-1k in Cyrodii from it.

PudraSekeri · August 21

I have to use hardened ward to survive, but I have a stamsorc and this skill is magicka based and it doesn't make sense to use it. Another option is scribbing, but I don't have this dlc. Why doesn't the game offer me flexible options?

Bushido2513 · August 21

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Undeath nerf has made mages wrath worth slotting for me as well. That and AOE curses are pretty sweet

TBH; makes me want to get the plar out and see what RO looks like. RO with VD from a zerg?

I can never figure out what to leave on the table for wrath? Would be nice to not always have to burst people with just combos and spam when get low and won't die

I took of mage light. My shield dipped like 500-1k in Cyrodii from it.

Yeah that's the one i always consider and really I don't care much about that minimal shield loss but then you either lose crit, or have you use pots but then switch as needed just to get a limited time reveal from a detect pot. Inner light is really a limited backup reveal but still the whole thing just seems to get clunky on those if you drop that skill. Still you have an execute so I go back and forth on that one.

Bushido2513 · August 21

PudraSekeri wrote: »

I have to use hardened ward to survive, but I have a stamsorc and this skill is magicka based and it doesn't make sense to use it. Another option is scribbing, but I don't have this dlc. Why doesn't the game offer me flexible options?

You don't exactly have to use ward since crit surge is a bit more viable in melee in my opinion but yeah you'd need it to be spamable and that's just really not easy with the cost and no dedicated mag pool or regen which both cost you damage.

Tcholl · August 21

The way players adapted is ignoring sorcs, at least in Cyro. They receive the same treatment as tanks and no one wants to lose time with them or get stuck in combat.

StaticWave · August 21

I adapted by building tankier and ignoring them in a fight. I’ll still take hella dmg from them though, but I usually kill them last or catch them off guard when their shield is down.

Navaac223 · August 21

PudraSekeri wrote: »

I have to use hardened ward to survive, but I have a stamsorc and this skill is magicka based and it doesn't make sense to use it. Another option is scribbing, but I don't have this dlc. Why doesn't the game offer me flexible options?

The reason you don't get defensive options on a sorc is that this would be OP since sorcs have the best damage and mobility in pvp (wich is exactly why people want a nerf for hardened ward).

Here's how to survive without spamming ward : just don't get hit lol.

This is serious : you need to go behind walls with streak when you take too much damage. You don't "have to use hardened ward to survive". I guess critical surge can help survivability but the core of stamsorc is to go too fast for others to kill you. If you're still struggling, use something like pariah or trial by fire

TechMaybeHic · August 21

Bushido2513 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Undeath nerf has made mages wrath worth slotting for me as well. That and AOE curses are pretty sweet

TBH; makes me want to get the plar out and see what RO looks like. RO with VD from a zerg?

I can never figure out what to leave on the table for wrath? Would be nice to not always have to burst people with just combos and spam when get low and won't die

I took of mage light. My shield dipped like 500-1k in Cyrodii from it.

Yeah that's the one i always consider and really I don't care much about that minimal shield loss but then you either lose crit, or have you use pots but then switch as needed just to get a limited time reveal from a detect pot. Inner light is really a limited backup reveal but still the whole thing just seems to get clunky on those if you drop that skill. Still you have an execute so I go back and forth on that one.

There are a few options to make room. Ironically; sorc used to be crowded for bar space but I find it might be the easiest now. Maybe after NB. Can run wield soul as a spammable, still can do chudan for major resolve. Just slotting a kill gives minor protection and resolve and stats both bars, so no need for resolving vigor. You could even do soul burst gor a burst heal and HOT if you wanted, which is really effective if you have tgat big shield precast. Or just use Vibrant shroud which will also buff your shield size, always hit you and any friendly in front of you.

Bushido2513 · August 21

StaticWave wrote: »

I adapted by building tankier and ignoring them in a fight. I’ll still take hella dmg from them though, but I usually kill them last or catch them off guard when their shield is down.

Again ward needs a look but I feel like this applies to multiple classes and builds just for different reasons. I had a tanky warden and NB the other day easily trading blows to the point where I'm like come on, same with templar's, Arcanist not as much as before but they can easily tank and drain you.

Just saying that there's a lot of things we still want changed but that we've also just decided to play past. This is where we are with sorc being that ZOS hasn't rolled back or commented on the change since it was put in.

Bushido2513 · August 21

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Undeath nerf has made mages wrath worth slotting for me as well. That and AOE curses are pretty sweet

TBH; makes me want to get the plar out and see what RO looks like. RO with VD from a zerg?

I can never figure out what to leave on the table for wrath? Would be nice to not always have to burst people with just combos and spam when get low and won't die

I took of mage light. My shield dipped like 500-1k in Cyrodii from it.

Yeah that's the one i always consider and really I don't care much about that minimal shield loss but then you either lose crit, or have you use pots but then switch as needed just to get a limited time reveal from a detect pot. Inner light is really a limited backup reveal but still the whole thing just seems to get clunky on those if you drop that skill. Still you have an execute so I go back and forth on that one.

There are a few options to make room. Ironically; sorc used to be crowded for bar space but I find it might be the easiest now. Maybe after NB. Can run wield soul as a spammable, still can do chudan for major resolve. Just slotting a kill gives minor protection and resolve and stats both bars, so no need for resolving vigor. You could even do soul burst gor a burst heal and HOT if you wanted, which is really effective if you have tgat big shield precast. Or just use Vibrant shroud which will also buff your shield size, always hit you and any friendly in front of you.

Problem is that I don't use chudan or have the new chapter. So yes you're correct and I'm glad you mentioned that. This is how others have space for it when I don't but my build works as I like it for my style and if I want an execute I'll have you play more of a meta build which just kills the fun for me. Anyways thanks for the explanation!

TechMaybeHic · August 21

Bushido2513 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Undeath nerf has made mages wrath worth slotting for me as well. That and AOE curses are pretty sweet

TBH; makes me want to get the plar out and see what RO looks like. RO with VD from a zerg?

I can never figure out what to leave on the table for wrath? Would be nice to not always have to burst people with just combos and spam when get low and won't die

I took of mage light. My shield dipped like 500-1k in Cyrodii from it.

Yeah that's the one i always consider and really I don't care much about that minimal shield loss but then you either lose crit, or have you use pots but then switch as needed just to get a limited time reveal from a detect pot. Inner light is really a limited backup reveal but still the whole thing just seems to get clunky on those if you drop that skill. Still you have an execute so I go back and forth on that one.

There are a few options to make room. Ironically; sorc used to be crowded for bar space but I find it might be the easiest now. Maybe after NB. Can run wield soul as a spammable, still can do chudan for major resolve. Just slotting a kill gives minor protection and resolve and stats both bars, so no need for resolving vigor. You could even do soul burst gor a burst heal and HOT if you wanted, which is really effective if you have tgat big shield precast. Or just use Vibrant shroud which will also buff your shield size, always hit you and any friendly in front of you.

Problem is that I don't use chudan or have the new chapter. So yes you're correct and I'm glad you mentioned that. This is how others have space for it when I don't but my build works as I like it for my style and if I want an execute I'll have you play more of a meta build which just kills the fun for me. Anyways thanks for the explanation!

There is a lot of flexibility between where you likely are at, and meta. I do my own build but at some point in variations; you're gimping yourself too much for the sake of identity

Bushido2513 · August 21

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Undeath nerf has made mages wrath worth slotting for me as well. That and AOE curses are pretty sweet

TBH; makes me want to get the plar out and see what RO looks like. RO with VD from a zerg?

I can never figure out what to leave on the table for wrath? Would be nice to not always have to burst people with just combos and spam when get low and won't die

I took of mage light. My shield dipped like 500-1k in Cyrodii from it.

Yeah that's the one i always consider and really I don't care much about that minimal shield loss but then you either lose crit, or have you use pots but then switch as needed just to get a limited time reveal from a detect pot. Inner light is really a limited backup reveal but still the whole thing just seems to get clunky on those if you drop that skill. Still you have an execute so I go back and forth on that one.

There are a few options to make room. Ironically; sorc used to be crowded for bar space but I find it might be the easiest now. Maybe after NB. Can run wield soul as a spammable, still can do chudan for major resolve. Just slotting a kill gives minor protection and resolve and stats both bars, so no need for resolving vigor. You could even do soul burst gor a burst heal and HOT if you wanted, which is really effective if you have tgat big shield precast. Or just use Vibrant shroud which will also buff your shield size, always hit you and any friendly in front of you.

Problem is that I don't use chudan or have the new chapter. So yes you're correct and I'm glad you mentioned that. This is how others have space for it when I don't but my build works as I like it for my style and if I want an execute I'll have you play more of a meta build which just kills the fun for me. Anyways thanks for the explanation!

There is a lot of flexibility between where you likely are at, and meta. I do my own build but at some point in variations; you're gimping yourself too much for the sake of identity

Oh yeah totally, I'm definitely not very underpowered and do fairly well dealing with solo fights and outnumbered. Other more optimized sorcs have more damage and mitigation than me but not to a point where I have to run from them or anything like that. My build favors more relaxed gameplay with flexibility to be competitive so it just comes at a bar space cost.

Turtle_Bot · August 22

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Problem is that I don't use chudan or have the new chapter. So yes you're correct and I'm glad you mentioned that. This is how others have space for it when I don't but my build works as I like it for my style and if I want an execute I'll have you play more of a meta build which just kills the fun for me. Anyways thanks for the explanation!

The new chapter is a big difference maker in terms of flexibility imo. Not having Chudan can be built around (I still run it, but I have tested other things), but scribing just opens up so much bar flexibility that was not available to sorc before (still behind NB, but no class is even remotely close to NB for bar space flexibility).

For example, I currently run a sword and board/ice staff sorc (not stacking mag) with S+B front bar for shield throw as my spammable allowing me to run heal soul as my burst heal instead of ward and with major prophecy/savagery now on shield throw (as of this patch), I am able to completely drop inner light for something else without losing such an important (and basic) buff and as a bonus I also get to keep vitality on heal soul. (Currently running frags for front bar minor prophecy, but mages wrath has been tempting to try out, especially now that undeath has been rightfully nerfed).

I'd ideally prefer to run a shock damage AoE travelling knife (DW scribed skill), but that skill is currently still stam locked and fairly costly to use, so is too awkward to run on a magicka sorc, despite being a more fun ability to use (for me) than either shield throw or shocking soul (both of which are still fun).

Bushido2513 · August 22

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Problem is that I don't use chudan or have the new chapter. So yes you're correct and I'm glad you mentioned that. This is how others have space for it when I don't but my build works as I like it for my style and if I want an execute I'll have you play more of a meta build which just kills the fun for me. Anyways thanks for the explanation!

The new chapter is a big difference maker in terms of flexibility imo. Not having Chudan can be built around (I still run it, but I have tested other things), but scribing just opens up so much bar flexibility that was not available to sorc before (still behind NB, but no class is even remotely close to NB for bar space flexibility).

For example, I currently run a sword and board/ice staff sorc (not stacking mag) with S+B front bar for shield throw as my spammable allowing me to run heal soul as my burst heal instead of ward and with major prophecy/savagery now on shield throw (as of this patch), I am able to completely drop inner light for something else without losing such an important (and basic) buff and as a bonus I also get to keep vitality on heal soul. (Currently running frags for front bar minor prophecy, but mages wrath has been tempting to try out, especially now that undeath has been rightfully nerfed).

I'd ideally prefer to run a shock damage AoE travelling knife (DW scribed skill), but that skill is currently still stam locked and fairly costly to use, so is too awkward to run on a magicka sorc, despite being a more fun ability to use (for me) than either shield throw or shocking soul (both of which are still fun).

So what you're saying is get with the times, get out my wallet, and get my scribe grind on 😂.

Kidding, I know scribing could easily fix some holes but I'm not really up for paying for a grind opportunity. This does really highlight for people just how scribing can make life easier if you're into it. Thankfully ZOS didn't make it a case where I feel at all like a sorc with scribing is that much more competitive than my own. Well other than they have an execute or maybe a bigger shield or healing but at this point that's not a concern for me

TechMaybeHic · August 22

I'm patiently waiting for class script scraps. Was going well with EP snatching up scrolls and them getting brought back prime time to get 4 without having to pve but it seems there is at least occasional effort to focus EP as soon as enough DC and AD show up where it gas not happened for a few days

xylena_lazarow · August 22

Navaac223 wrote: »

just don't get hit lol. This is serious : you need to go behind walls with streak when you take too much damage. You don't "have to use hardened ward to survive". I guess critical surge can help survivability but the core of stamsorc is to go too fast for others to kill you. If you're still struggling, use something like pariah or trial by fire

Very good Sorc advice. Pretty sure the common thread of Ward apologists is an inability to use Streak.

Turtle_Bot · August 23

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Problem is that I don't use chudan or have the new chapter. So yes you're correct and I'm glad you mentioned that. This is how others have space for it when I don't but my build works as I like it for my style and if I want an execute I'll have you play more of a meta build which just kills the fun for me. Anyways thanks for the explanation!

The new chapter is a big difference maker in terms of flexibility imo. Not having Chudan can be built around (I still run it, but I have tested other things), but scribing just opens up so much bar flexibility that was not available to sorc before (still behind NB, but no class is even remotely close to NB for bar space flexibility).

For example, I currently run a sword and board/ice staff sorc (not stacking mag) with S+B front bar for shield throw as my spammable allowing me to run heal soul as my burst heal instead of ward and with major prophecy/savagery now on shield throw (as of this patch), I am able to completely drop inner light for something else without losing such an important (and basic) buff and as a bonus I also get to keep vitality on heal soul. (Currently running frags for front bar minor prophecy, but mages wrath has been tempting to try out, especially now that undeath has been rightfully nerfed).

I'd ideally prefer to run a shock damage AoE travelling knife (DW scribed skill), but that skill is currently still stam locked and fairly costly to use, so is too awkward to run on a magicka sorc, despite being a more fun ability to use (for me) than either shield throw or shocking soul (both of which are still fun).

So what you're saying is get with the times, get out my wallet, and get my scribe grind on 😂.

Kidding, I know scribing could easily fix some holes but I'm not really up for paying for a grind opportunity. This does really highlight for people just how scribing can make life easier if you're into it. Thankfully ZOS didn't make it a case where I feel at all like a sorc with scribing is that much more competitive than my own. Well other than they have an execute or maybe a bigger shield or healing but at this point that's not a concern for me

lol, everyone knows every chapter is just there to be p2w. 😂 /s

In all honesty, for the current "optimal" build of mag stacking for ward, scribing is also not needed (crushing shock or crushing weapon fills the spammable role just fine and inner light provides prophecy/savagery).

What scribing does do though is allow for off meta (non mag-stacking) builds (like my build above) to finally have true flexibility in bar space by adding some of the many missing buffs (savagery/prophecy, courage, cowardice, breach, etc) that sorc lacks inherently compared to other classes (except necro) onto actually useful abilities that are worth slotting (spammable, burst heal, AoE, etc) to allow other more niche abilities to be slotted. Ele sus is still BiS for breach, but that's because ele sus is just so strong now.

Scribing technically does this for other classes as well, but sorc has been the biggest benefiter of scribing since sorc seems to be designed to require other classes (or non-class abilities) to provide the majority of the major buffs/debuffs for it outside of 2/3 of the basics (brutality/sorcery and resolve) and scribing allows sorc to easily fill those gaps, especially the basic major prophecy/savagery buff.

StaticWave · August 23

For the first time since hybridization, I’m able to use stam pots on a stam sorc lol

Bushido2513 · August 23

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Problem is that I don't use chudan or have the new chapter. So yes you're correct and I'm glad you mentioned that. This is how others have space for it when I don't but my build works as I like it for my style and if I want an execute I'll have you play more of a meta build which just kills the fun for me. Anyways thanks for the explanation!

The new chapter is a big difference maker in terms of flexibility imo. Not having Chudan can be built around (I still run it, but I have tested other things), but scribing just opens up so much bar flexibility that was not available to sorc before (still behind NB, but no class is even remotely close to NB for bar space flexibility).

For example, I currently run a sword and board/ice staff sorc (not stacking mag) with S+B front bar for shield throw as my spammable allowing me to run heal soul as my burst heal instead of ward and with major prophecy/savagery now on shield throw (as of this patch), I am able to completely drop inner light for something else without losing such an important (and basic) buff and as a bonus I also get to keep vitality on heal soul. (Currently running frags for front bar minor prophecy, but mages wrath has been tempting to try out, especially now that undeath has been rightfully nerfed).

I'd ideally prefer to run a shock damage AoE travelling knife (DW scribed skill), but that skill is currently still stam locked and fairly costly to use, so is too awkward to run on a magicka sorc, despite being a more fun ability to use (for me) than either shield throw or shocking soul (both of which are still fun).

So what you're saying is get with the times, get out my wallet, and get my scribe grind on 😂.

Kidding, I know scribing could easily fix some holes but I'm not really up for paying for a grind opportunity. This does really highlight for people just how scribing can make life easier if you're into it. Thankfully ZOS didn't make it a case where I feel at all like a sorc with scribing is that much more competitive than my own. Well other than they have an execute or maybe a bigger shield or healing but at this point that's not a concern for me

lol, everyone knows every chapter is just there to be p2w. 😂 /s

In all honesty, for the current "optimal" build of mag stacking for ward, scribing is also not needed (crushing shock or crushing weapon fills the spammable role just fine and inner light provides prophecy/savagery).

What scribing does do though is allow for off meta (non mag-stacking) builds (like my build above) to finally have true flexibility in bar space by adding some of the many missing buffs (savagery/prophecy, courage, cowardice, breach, etc) that sorc lacks inherently compared to other classes (except necro) onto actually useful abilities that are worth slotting (spammable, burst heal, AoE, etc) to allow other more niche abilities to be slotted. Ele sus is still BiS for breach, but that's because ele sus is just so strong now.

Scribing technically does this for other classes as well, but sorc has been the biggest benefiter of scribing since sorc seems to be designed to require other classes (or non-class abilities) to provide the majority of the major buffs/debuffs for it outside of 2/3 of the basics (brutality/sorcery and resolve) and scribing allows sorc to easily fill those gaps, especially the basic major prophecy/savagery buff.

Ngl looked at the spamable and definitely want it because I'd enjoy a weavable with fracture on it or some of the other combinations but yeah not going to pay for it or do the grind if I don't have to. Also I just don't want to change up my bars again after getting a rotation down after much recent practice. I might get into it once it's cheap when they reduce the price to sell the next thing and get all and any nerfs done lol.

Also I didn't realize people might be getting vitality and thus having even more benefit from a min maxed ward!

TechMaybeHic · August 23

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Problem is that I don't use chudan or have the new chapter. So yes you're correct and I'm glad you mentioned that. This is how others have space for it when I don't but my build works as I like it for my style and if I want an execute I'll have you play more of a meta build which just kills the fun for me. Anyways thanks for the explanation!

The new chapter is a big difference maker in terms of flexibility imo. Not having Chudan can be built around (I still run it, but I have tested other things), but scribing just opens up so much bar flexibility that was not available to sorc before (still behind NB, but no class is even remotely close to NB for bar space flexibility).

For example, I currently run a sword and board/ice staff sorc (not stacking mag) with S+B front bar for shield throw as my spammable allowing me to run heal soul as my burst heal instead of ward and with major prophecy/savagery now on shield throw (as of this patch), I am able to completely drop inner light for something else without losing such an important (and basic) buff and as a bonus I also get to keep vitality on heal soul. (Currently running frags for front bar minor prophecy, but mages wrath has been tempting to try out, especially now that undeath has been rightfully nerfed).

I'd ideally prefer to run a shock damage AoE travelling knife (DW scribed skill), but that skill is currently still stam locked and fairly costly to use, so is too awkward to run on a magicka sorc, despite being a more fun ability to use (for me) than either shield throw or shocking soul (both of which are still fun).

So what you're saying is get with the times, get out my wallet, and get my scribe grind on 😂.

Kidding, I know scribing could easily fix some holes but I'm not really up for paying for a grind opportunity. This does really highlight for people just how scribing can make life easier if you're into it. Thankfully ZOS didn't make it a case where I feel at all like a sorc with scribing is that much more competitive than my own. Well other than they have an execute or maybe a bigger shield or healing but at this point that's not a concern for me

lol, everyone knows every chapter is just there to be p2w. 😂 /s

In all honesty, for the current "optimal" build of mag stacking for ward, scribing is also not needed (crushing shock or crushing weapon fills the spammable role just fine and inner light provides prophecy/savagery).

What scribing does do though is allow for off meta (non mag-stacking) builds (like my build above) to finally have true flexibility in bar space by adding some of the many missing buffs (savagery/prophecy, courage, cowardice, breach, etc) that sorc lacks inherently compared to other classes (except necro) onto actually useful abilities that are worth slotting (spammable, burst heal, AoE, etc) to allow other more niche abilities to be slotted. Ele sus is still BiS for breach, but that's because ele sus is just so strong now.

Scribing technically does this for other classes as well, but sorc has been the biggest benefiter of scribing since sorc seems to be designed to require other classes (or non-class abilities) to provide the majority of the major buffs/debuffs for it outside of 2/3 of the basics (brutality/sorcery and resolve) and scribing allows sorc to easily fill those gaps, especially the basic major prophecy/savagery buff.

Ngl looked at the spamable and definitely want it because I'd enjoy a weavable with fracture on it or some of the other combinations but yeah not going to pay for it or do the grind if I don't have to. Also I just don't want to change up my bars again after getting a rotation down after much recent practice. I might get into it once it's cheap when they reduce the price to sell the next thing and get all and any nerfs done lol.

Also I didn't realize people might be getting vitality and thus having even more benefit from a min maxed ward!

It's a double edged sword, IMO. It's nice to fill in gaps and sometimes feels necessary, yet some classes it feels like the gaps needing filled are not there, and if it is; it feels so homoginized and awful, IMO. Regardless of how awful it feels, you rob yourself of the options not having it

Ren_TheRedFox · August 23

@Turtle_Bot scribing literally took away every aspect of “class identity” in this game, to be honest. All you see now is everyone using “Wield Soul” in any kind of aspect, be it a dps skill, a heal skill, or even a shield skill, whatever... that skill just needs to go .... and the Sorc shields need to be nerfed so badly... I see no reason to put a heal on an already broken skill when they literally have another burst AoE heal that is way better than any other AoE heal in the game, considering it puts major maim and minor vitality on enemies and allies ... just why? I can comfortably say that sorcs and nightblades are currently the favorite children of ZoS ... I bet they'll be buffed again in the next patch xD This time they'll probably make crystal frags an AoE skill that can't be blocked and is a guaranteed kill xD