CP5 wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

X

Aurielle wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

A little off topic, but I'd like a title for accumulating the 500 ink. It's be interesting how long it takes to see someone with it

Less than a month
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8139855/#Comment_8139855

90 minutes of farming nodes this morning, with a plug in to help. No ink drops. Lord above, something is so broken with this RNG. Until the increase the drop rates, or fix those of us whom have broken RNG, I doubt I could finish that achievement in my lifetime.

90 minutes doesn't really say anything. How many nodes was that? We had people here who barely do 100 nodes in an hour and consider that farming.

It was non stop farming, node to node, using the plugin that makes giant neon signs above every plant. It was waaaay over 100 nodes. This is also after 80+ hours of play since Gold Road was released and finding 2 inks in Imp City in all that time.

For some of us, clearly not all of us, either for character or account, the RNG is broken for ink drops.

Precisely. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: the consistency of the poor luck versus good luck we’re seeing reported here in the forums has all the hallmark signs of an RNG bug. If static character or account IDs are used as part of the calculation, that could explain it.

Until we learn more about the issue, the most helpful thing those of you with good luck can do is simply empathize with us. A simple “that really sucks, it’s not right that you’re farming for an hour and getting 1-2 ink or even nothing, while I often get 12 or more in the same amount of time” helps. Just put yourself in other people’s shoes. I strongly suspect that those of you with 300-400+ ink at this point in time would be pretty darn frustrated if you’d been as unlucky as some of us have been with this system, through no fault of our own.

This. And I emphasized what I feel is the crux of the matter.

It's not about what time X you spent on location Y, it's about what you actually did. If you're not doing it the same way as people who have lots of ink you're not doing it efficently.

Why should the system only be readily accessible to those who do this kind of farming? Anyone who doesn't have their face planted against resource nodes grinding away is heavily barred from this system, and even those who do grind can have horrible luck and get nothing. Twice so far in a few minutes waiting for friends for our dungeon runs I've gotten 2 ink from different resource nodes, but in the thousands of things I've killed since Gold Road I've gotten at least 1, maybe 2 ink from enemies, with an additional 1 or 2 from bosses. Is it good design that the only way to get ink is by heavily grinding, by grinding the 'right' way with a large amount of time committed, with no guarantee that your time will result in any gains?

OsUfi wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

meekmiko wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

Scribing makes PVP P2Win. Shouldn't be allowed in PVP.

Honestly I think Scribing should've been a base game update as it literally changes how existing skill lines work. 🤔
I could understand the Expansion being about like Alternate Skill Animations, Alternate Skill Colors, Alternate Skins for Class Pets and all that jazz (all of which have been requested numerous times over the years), but when it changes how the base skills work there's definitely an unfair advantage cropping up. I mean the newer Classes (like Warden/Necro/Arcanist) and added skill lines (like Psijic and Antiquities for Mythics) have already been skirting P2W for the longest time now, but to full on change how basic core skills work (that have been in the game available to everyone for the last decade) and still lock it behind a paywall is really climbing over the edge in my opinion. 🤷‍♀️

*Edited to add: /rant
Lawl

About the pay-to-win nature... Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't the scribing quest line send you to a lot of DLC locations?
I mean... You can't even just buy Gold Road and hope to be able to complete the quest line, if you don't own other DLCs too or you are not subscribed to ESOPlus.

Surprised no one commented on this yet.

You don't need the DLCs to visit the mini areas of the quest. They're all enclosed and none require purchases beyond base game and Gold Road.

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

You guys do not get it. Your not suppose to just be visiting th

OsUfi wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

meekmiko wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

Scribing makes PVP P2Win. Shouldn't be allowed in PVP.

Honestly I think Scribing should've been a base game update as it literally changes how existing skill lines work. 🤔
I could understand the Expansion being about like Alternate Skill Animations, Alternate Skill Colors, Alternate Skins for Class Pets and all that jazz (all of which have been requested numerous times over the years), but when it changes how the base skills work there's definitely an unfair advantage cropping up. I mean the newer Classes (like Warden/Necro/Arcanist) and added skill lines (like Psijic and Antiquities for Mythics) have already been skirting P2W for the longest time now, but to full on change how basic core skills work (that have been in the game available to everyone for the last decade) and still lock it behind a paywall is really climbing over the edge in my opinion. 🤷‍♀️

*Edited to add: /rant
Lawl

About the pay-to-win nature... Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't the scribing quest line send you to a lot of DLC locations?
I mean... You can't even just buy Gold Road and hope to be able to complete the quest line, if you don't own other DLCs too or you are not subscribed to ESOPlus.

Surprised no one commented on this yet.

You don't need the DLCs to visit the mini areas of the quest. They're all enclosed and none require purchases beyond base game and Gold Road.

The net quests take you to vvardenfell so if you don't own vvardenfell then you can't play. Is vvardenfell basegame now?

CP5 wrote: »

Why should the system only be readily accessible to those who do this kind of farming? Anyone who doesn't have their face planted against resource nodes grinding away is heavily barred from this system, and even those who do grind can have horrible luck and get nothing.

Aurielle wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Why should the system only be readily accessible to those who do this kind of farming? Anyone who doesn't have their face planted against resource nodes grinding away is heavily barred from this system, and even those who do grind can have horrible luck and get nothing.

It's not.

People continue to talk about ink like it's account bound. It's a tradable commodity.

I'm not into harvesting, so I haven't harvested a single ink. NP though, I can do things I enjoy and sell the items I get to buy ink like I do for the vast majority of my crafting resources, motifs, recipes, etc...

It’s a tradable commodity, but it should be acquirable at comparable rates for everyone who grinds crafting nodes in this game — not just the lucky minority who are currently profiting off it. I won’t pay other players for ink until I, too, get to consistently enjoy lucky streaks of 12-20 ink per hour like they do.

Desiato wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Why should the system only be readily accessible to those who do this kind of farming? Anyone who doesn't have their face planted against resource nodes grinding away is heavily barred from this system, and even those who do grind can have horrible luck and get nothing.

It's not.

People continue to talk about ink like it's account bound. It's a tradable commodity.

I'm not into harvesting, so I haven't harvested a single ink. NP though, I can do things I enjoy and sell the items I get to buy ink like I do for the vast majority of my crafting resources, motifs, recipes, etc...

It’s a tradable commodity, but it should be acquirable at comparable rates for everyone who grinds crafting nodes in this game — not just the lucky minority who are currently profiting off it. I won’t pay other players for ink until I, too, get to consistently enjoy lucky streaks of 12-20 ink per hour like they do.

It's not a primary resource, so that's to be expected. Its price is in line with many other crafting mats and isn't at all prohibitive. Anyone who sells items in the player economy can easily afford ink.

It's your choice, but please stop talking about it like the only way to get it is to grind resource nodes.

Kisakee wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Why should the system only be readily accessible to those who do this kind of farming? Anyone who doesn't have their face planted against resource nodes grinding away is heavily barred from this system, and even those who do grind can have horrible luck and get nothing.

It's not.

People continue to talk about ink like it's account bound. It's a tradable commodity.

I'm not into harvesting, so I haven't harvested a single ink. NP though, I can do things I enjoy and sell the items I get to buy ink like I do for the vast majority of my crafting resources, motifs, recipes, etc...

It’s a tradable commodity, but it should be acquirable at comparable rates for everyone who grinds crafting nodes in this game — not just the lucky minority who are currently profiting off it. I won’t pay other players for ink until I, too, get to consistently enjoy lucky streaks of 12-20 ink per hour like they do.

I already mentioned how to farm efficiently and your video shows you're not following it. 75% of ink drops from regular ore nodes, let there be 2 or 3 per hour coming from other nodes.

LaintalAy wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

RNG is supposed to be random. If the drop rate is consistent for everyone and the random number generator is functioning as intended, players engaging in the same kind of activity (i.e. grinding crafting nodes in densely clustered starter areas) should expect to see a comparable average rate of acquisition over time. Some players shouldn’t be consistently luckier than others, and vice versa.

Players are not consistently luckier than others; their game play is different, however subtle.

For 8 years my game play results in getting Aetherial Dust every 2-3 months. Other players see one in 8 years or none.

There is no luck. RNG is more than applying a pre-defined percentage drop rate.

Kisakee wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Why should the system only be readily accessible to those who do this kind of farming? Anyone who doesn't have their face planted against resource nodes grinding away is heavily barred from this system, and even those who do grind can have horrible luck and get nothing.

It's not.

People continue to talk about ink like it's account bound. It's a tradable commodity.

I'm not into harvesting, so I haven't harvested a single ink. NP though, I can do things I enjoy and sell the items I get to buy ink like I do for the vast majority of my crafting resources, motifs, recipes, etc...

It’s a tradable commodity, but it should be acquirable at comparable rates for everyone who grinds crafting nodes in this game — not just the lucky minority who are currently profiting off it. I won’t pay other players for ink until I, too, get to consistently enjoy lucky streaks of 12-20 ink per hour like they do.

I already mentioned how to farm efficiently and your video shows you're not following it. 75% of ink drops from regular ore nodes, let there be 2 or 3 per hour coming from other nodes.

https://youtu.be/Iqfj5f6OIT4?si=G_yz9E9en1jDv4gx

EF321 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

https://youtu.be/v-v_D282bHs

So, I need to emphasize again that this is a "lucky" run for me. I looted 186 ink sources in 19 minutes and got one ink. Other people's lucky runs yield 12-20 ink per hour. I typically average around 1-2 ink per hour when doing dedicated node harvesting like this. It feels like a monumental waste of my time. It certainly doesn't feel "efficient." I want to actually be able to play the game. Mind you, there are people who are just playing the game normally without farming at all who already have more overall ink acquired than I do -- suggesting, again, that there may be a bug affecting some players.

A question for those of you with good RNG luck who are staunchly against ZOS doing anything about the drop rate: are you opposed to the idea of one guaranteed ink drop per account from the first daily quest or RND/BG completion of the day? If so, why are you opposed? What's your rationale?

That's not on the best side of rng, but not terrible with amount of nodes gathered (especially if you don't factor in mob count, which you shouldn't because they have very different, much lower drop rate). Within reason still. Sometimes this happens, sometimes the opposite. I had worse results than that myself and did not consider my account to be cursed or suspect some stealth nerf overnight.


There's really no reason to shove ink into inventories of players who aren't even looking for it. Like with any other material, if you want it, actively farm for it or just buy it, it's true for most things in game and other materials that are part of paid DLCs (like rheum, clam gall, powdered mother of pearl, chaurus egg). There is no daily use for ink, skills don't have duration like food, there are no master writs involving ink, no furnishing plans requiring ink. Once you are done with your skills, there is no more use for it, keep some in stock for potential changes and the rest only sell, nothing else to do with it. Like OP said, you are not meant to complete every skill on entire account within one month.
You can see already in guild stores, more and more posted every week, it moves slower and price halves every week, because more and more players no longer have use for it and it keeps dropping. Definitely there is no shortage, and there will be even more ink once patch drops.

CP5 wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

https://youtu.be/v-v_D282bHs

So, I need to emphasize again that this is a "lucky" run for me. I looted 186 ink sources in 19 minutes and got one ink. Other people's lucky runs yield 12-20 ink per hour. I typically average around 1-2 ink per hour when doing dedicated node harvesting like this. It feels like a monumental waste of my time. It certainly doesn't feel "efficient." I want to actually be able to play the game. Mind you, there are people who are just playing the game normally without farming at all who already have more overall ink acquired than I do -- suggesting, again, that there may be a bug affecting some players.

A question for those of you with good RNG luck who are staunchly against ZOS doing anything about the drop rate: are you opposed to the idea of one guaranteed ink drop per account from the first daily quest or RND/BG completion of the day? If so, why are you opposed? What's your rationale?

That's not on the best side of rng, but not terrible with amount of nodes gathered (especially if you don't factor in mob count, which you shouldn't because they have very different, much lower drop rate). Within reason still. Sometimes this happens, sometimes the opposite. I had worse results than that myself and did not consider my account to be cursed or suspect some stealth nerf overnight.


There's really no reason to shove ink into inventories of players who aren't even looking for it. Like with any other material, if you want it, actively farm for it or just buy it, it's true for most things in game and other materials that are part of paid DLCs (like rheum, clam gall, powdered mother of pearl, chaurus egg). There is no daily use for ink, skills don't have duration like food, there are no master writs involving ink, no furnishing plans requiring ink. Once you are done with your skills, there is no more use for it, keep some in stock for potential changes and the rest only sell, nothing else to do with it. Like OP said, you are not meant to complete every skill on entire account within one month.
You can see already in guild stores, more and more posted every week, it moves slower and price halves every week, because more and more players no longer have use for it and it keeps dropping. Definitely there is no shortage, and there will be even more ink once patch drops.

Until people go to try out different combinations, return to old skills that they liked, or ZOS adds new skills, the need for ink on a day to day basis is low, but people who actively engage with the system will still need to spend ink regularly, depending on how often they want to try different things. Take this pts for example, adding more frost damage skills, or changing the duration of buffs and debuffs. You now have to pay ink to adapt to patch notes, no free respecs for a week after a patch lands.

As for the prices of ink, how much of that is due to players having such a bad impression of the system that they choose to ignore it, rather than buying into it even more by buying ink from traders? Make a system abrasive enough that players don't want to touch it, and the resource that people were selling for that system would be sold to a much smaller audience.

EF321 wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

https://youtu.be/v-v_D282bHs

So, I need to emphasize again that this is a "lucky" run for me. I looted 186 ink sources in 19 minutes and got one ink. Other people's lucky runs yield 12-20 ink per hour. I typically average around 1-2 ink per hour when doing dedicated node harvesting like this. It feels like a monumental waste of my time. It certainly doesn't feel "efficient." I want to actually be able to play the game. Mind you, there are people who are just playing the game normally without farming at all who already have more overall ink acquired than I do -- suggesting, again, that there may be a bug affecting some players.

A question for those of you with good RNG luck who are staunchly against ZOS doing anything about the drop rate: are you opposed to the idea of one guaranteed ink drop per account from the first daily quest or RND/BG completion of the day? If so, why are you opposed? What's your rationale?

That's not on the best side of rng, but not terrible with amount of nodes gathered (especially if you don't factor in mob count, which you shouldn't because they have very different, much lower drop rate). Within reason still. Sometimes this happens, sometimes the opposite. I had worse results than that myself and did not consider my account to be cursed or suspect some stealth nerf overnight.


There's really no reason to shove ink into inventories of players who aren't even looking for it. Like with any other material, if you want it, actively farm for it or just buy it, it's true for most things in game and other materials that are part of paid DLCs (like rheum, clam gall, powdered mother of pearl, chaurus egg). There is no daily use for ink, skills don't have duration like food, there are no master writs involving ink, no furnishing plans requiring ink. Once you are done with your skills, there is no more use for it, keep some in stock for potential changes and the rest only sell, nothing else to do with it. Like OP said, you are not meant to complete every skill on entire account within one month.
You can see already in guild stores, more and more posted every week, it moves slower and price halves every week, because more and more players no longer have use for it and it keeps dropping. Definitely there is no shortage, and there will be even more ink once patch drops.

Until people go to try out different combinations, return to old skills that they liked, or ZOS adds new skills, the need for ink on a day to day basis is low, but people who actively engage with the system will still need to spend ink regularly, depending on how often they want to try different things. Take this pts for example, adding more frost damage skills, or changing the duration of buffs and debuffs. You now have to pay ink to adapt to patch notes, no free respecs for a week after a patch lands.

As for the prices of ink, how much of that is due to players having such a bad impression of the system that they choose to ignore it, rather than buying into it even more by buying ink from traders? Make a system abrasive enough that players don't want to touch it, and the resource that people were selling for that system would be sold to a much smaller audience.

The same is true for gear, if ZOS changes something and you want to try it, you will need crafting mats, upgrade mats, transmutes, glyphs etc. If there's new set you want to try, you have to farm it first.

I can only imagine the outrage if gear crafting was added just last patch and was exactly like what we have today Year of research, need to level every craft separately, need to invest skill points, need to farm or buy mats for every piece and every change...

BlueRaven wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

https://youtu.be/v-v_D282bHs

So, I need to emphasize again that this is a "lucky" run for me. I looted 186 ink sources in 19 minutes and got one ink. Other people's lucky runs yield 12-20 ink per hour. I typically average around 1-2 ink per hour when doing dedicated node harvesting like this. It feels like a monumental waste of my time. It certainly doesn't feel "efficient." I want to actually be able to play the game. Mind you, there are people who are just playing the game normally without farming at all who already have more overall ink acquired than I do -- suggesting, again, that there may be a bug affecting some players.

A question for those of you with good RNG luck who are staunchly against ZOS doing anything about the drop rate: are you opposed to the idea of one guaranteed ink drop per account from the first daily quest or RND/BG completion of the day? If so, why are you opposed? What's your rationale?

That's not on the best side of rng, but not terrible with amount of nodes gathered (especially if you don't factor in mob count, which you shouldn't because they have very different, much lower drop rate). Within reason still. Sometimes this happens, sometimes the opposite. I had worse results than that myself and did not consider my account to be cursed or suspect some stealth nerf overnight.


There's really no reason to shove ink into inventories of players who aren't even looking for it. Like with any other material, if you want it, actively farm for it or just buy it, it's true for most things in game and other materials that are part of paid DLCs (like rheum, clam gall, powdered mother of pearl, chaurus egg). There is no daily use for ink, skills don't have duration like food, there are no master writs involving ink, no furnishing plans requiring ink. Once you are done with your skills, there is no more use for it, keep some in stock for potential changes and the rest only sell, nothing else to do with it. Like OP said, you are not meant to complete every skill on entire account within one month.
You can see already in guild stores, more and more posted every week, it moves slower and price halves every week, because more and more players no longer have use for it and it keeps dropping. Definitely there is no shortage, and there will be even more ink once patch drops.

Until people go to try out different combinations, return to old skills that they liked, or ZOS adds new skills, the need for ink on a day to day basis is low, but people who actively engage with the system will still need to spend ink regularly, depending on how often they want to try different things. Take this pts for example, adding more frost damage skills, or changing the duration of buffs and debuffs. You now have to pay ink to adapt to patch notes, no free respecs for a week after a patch lands.

As for the prices of ink, how much of that is due to players having such a bad impression of the system that they choose to ignore it, rather than buying into it even more by buying ink from traders? Make a system abrasive enough that players don't want to touch it, and the resource that people were selling for that system would be sold to a much smaller audience.

The same is true for gear, if ZOS changes something and you want to try it, you will need crafting mats, upgrade mats, transmutes, glyphs etc. If there's new set you want to try, you have to farm it first.

I can only imagine the outrage if gear crafting was added just last patch and was exactly like what we have today Year of research, need to level every craft separately, need to invest skill points, need to farm or buy mats for every piece and every change...

Do you know how many “1 day” or “instant” research type scrolls I have in the bank?

Too many.

Zos could come out with a new thing to research for each profession and as long as I had an item to begin research with, I would be done before the week was over.