Undeath Passive for Vampire needs removed/changed

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · February 28

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Just like the idea of being able to specifically build towards an RP vampire hunter in cyrodiil....

Fighter guild skills don't seem adequate...

I also like the idea of undeath passive tied to how many vampire skills are slotted....10%. Per skill slotted.

Fighters Guild skills were adequate until May 2014. Some of use used them successfully in Cyrodiil, as they did a lot of more damage to Vampires with a good chance to one shoot them with the crossbow bolt. Turn Undead was the funniest skill tbh, when they run uncontrollably in terror without breaking.

Problem was the forum was flooded by Nord Vampire DK Emperors & ex-Emperors who complained that they shouldn't be taking all that damage from FG skills let alone been possible to get one shotted by a "VR16 Templar cat" using FG skills, while the same folk were posting videos boasting that would kill whole zergs of 50+ people. As they continue do to this day.

Imho Vampires should NOT have access to FG skills & passives in PVP zones, having completely no resistance to FG skill damage of fire. (Undeath 30% provides resistance to fire too!)

Also Vampire in Mist Form can negate Sea-Serpent's Coil snare. Something that nobody else can and I bet this is a bug. As they get extra benefits without drawbacks from a mythic.

huskandhunger · February 28

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Just like the idea of being able to specifically build towards an RP vampire hunter in cyrodiil....

Fighter guild skills don't seem adequate...

I also like the idea of undeath passive tied to how many vampire skills are slotted....10%. Per skill slotted.

Fighters Guild skills were adequate until May 2014. Some of use used them successfully in Cyrodiil, as they did a lot of more damage to Vampires with a good chance to one shoot them with the crossbow bolt. Turn Undead was the funniest skill tbh, when they run uncontrollably in terror without breaking.

Problem was the forum was flooded by Nord Vampire DK Emperors & ex-Emperors who complained that they shouldn't be taking all that damage from FG skills let alone been possible to get one shotted by a "VR16 Templar cat" using FG skills, while the same folk were posting videos boasting that would kill whole zergs of 50+ people. As they continue do to this day.

Imho Vampires should NOT have access to FG skills & passives in PVP zones, having completely no resistance to FG skill damage of fire. (Undeath 30% provides resistance to fire too!)

Also Vampire in Mist Form can negate Sea-Serpent's Coil snare. Something that nobody else can and I bet this is a bug. As they get extra benefits without drawbacks from a mythic.

So the vampires have been our overlords all this time. And me here a werewolf struggling, haha, so fitting pfft 😆

notyuu · February 28

What if they removed the HP rec penelty on vampire and then made "undeath" into "unnatrual vitality" which increased health recovery by X% based on the % of missing max health?

Mr_Jord_Joe · February 28

Simple add a perk/talent tree to PvP, to make adjustments and balances just for PvP, I believe it is totally possible, despite the time ZoS will spend to accomplish this...

IncultaWolf · February 28

If zos does not feel like nerfing this overtuned passive, at least make it require any vampire ability slotted to be active, right now 95% of pvpers including myself on most of my builds are only using vampire for undeath alone. Funny how even before the Greymoor rework, everyone was only using vampire for 1 passive as well, back then you got unique recoveries, so even pvers were using vampire for sustain.

I've spent around 30 hours so far in Grayhost during this pvp event, and I've seen 2 werewolves, meanwhile most players I've noticed are vampires by looking at their character/buffs.

silentxthreat · February 29

This one passive is why they cant balance pvp. it should be removed and replaced with recovery like it used to be

huskandhunger · February 29

silentxthreat wrote: »

This one passive is why they cant balance pvp. it should be removed and replaced with recovery like it used to be

Wait it used to be a recovery passive?? 😲 I didn't know that how neat ^^

Remathilis · February 29

IncultaWolf wrote: »

If zos does not feel like nerfing this overtuned passive, at least make it require any vampire ability slotted to be active, right now 95% of pvpers including myself on most of my builds are only using vampire for undeath alone. Funny how even before the Greymoor rework, everyone was only using vampire for 1 passive as well, back then you got unique recoveries, so even pvers were using vampire for sustain.

I've spent around 30 hours so far in Grayhost during this pvp event, and I've seen 2 werewolves, meanwhile most players I've noticed are vampires by looking at their character/buffs.

Slot mist evasion. Now you have Undeath and CVS streak.

Panderbander · February 29

Remathilis wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

If zos does not feel like nerfing this overtuned passive, at least make it require any vampire ability slotted to be active, right now 95% of pvpers including myself on most of my builds are only using vampire for undeath alone. Funny how even before the Greymoor rework, everyone was only using vampire for 1 passive as well, back then you got unique recoveries, so even pvers were using vampire for sustain.

I've spent around 30 hours so far in Grayhost during this pvp event, and I've seen 2 werewolves, meanwhile most players I've noticed are vampires by looking at their character/buffs.

Slot mist evasion. Now you have Undeath and CVS streak.

Tie the effectiveness to the number of slotted vampire abilities. Fixed.

DanteTheDeviant · February 29

notyuu wrote: »

What if they removed the HP rec penelty on vampire and then made "undeath" into "unnatrual vitality" which increased health recovery by X% based on the % of missing max health?

Personally I would prefer this option because it's not broken and is lore accurate...

Panderbander · February 29

Pretty sure supernatural regeneration has typically been considered a werewolf thing while vampires relied on feeding off the essence of others to sustain their own immortalityand recovery lest they degrade into a state of agony. Either way, I'd be fine with turning undeath into health recovery for simple gameplay reasons, lore-be-damned. Undeath being as stupid good as it is needs to change, it's just such a no-brainer to take now.

Remathilis · February 29

Panderbander wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

If zos does not feel like nerfing this overtuned passive, at least make it require any vampire ability slotted to be active, right now 95% of pvpers including myself on most of my builds are only using vampire for undeath alone. Funny how even before the Greymoor rework, everyone was only using vampire for 1 passive as well, back then you got unique recoveries, so even pvers were using vampire for sustain.

I've spent around 30 hours so far in Grayhost during this pvp event, and I've seen 2 werewolves, meanwhile most players I've noticed are vampires by looking at their character/buffs.

Slot mist evasion. Now you have Undeath and CVS streak.

Tie the effectiveness to the number of slotted vampire abilities. Fixed.

Fix the rest of the vampire kit to make them worth slotting and you have a deal

Panderbander · February 29

Remathilis wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

If zos does not feel like nerfing this overtuned passive, at least make it require any vampire ability slotted to be active, right now 95% of pvpers including myself on most of my builds are only using vampire for undeath alone. Funny how even before the Greymoor rework, everyone was only using vampire for 1 passive as well, back then you got unique recoveries, so even pvers were using vampire for sustain.

I've spent around 30 hours so far in Grayhost during this pvp event, and I've seen 2 werewolves, meanwhile most players I've noticed are vampires by looking at their character/buffs.

Slot mist evasion. Now you have Undeath and CVS streak.

Tie the effectiveness to the number of slotted vampire abilities. Fixed.

Fix the rest of the vampire kit to make them worth slotting and you have a deal

Yeah I'm on board with this.

moo_2021 · February 29

IncultaWolf wrote: »

If zos does not feel like nerfing this overtuned passive, at least make it require any vampire ability slotted to be active, right now 95% of pvpers including myself on most of my builds are only using vampire for undeath alone. Funny how even before the Greymoor rework, everyone was only using vampire for 1 passive as well, back then you got unique recoveries, so even pvers were using vampire for sustain.

not a problem because my ultimates is usually the vampire lord transform, because most class ultimates are garbage and have zero use in PvE or PvP.

One more reason to be a vampire.

Spectral_Force · March 1

Not sure if this has been suggested before, but could Undeath be solved by giving it the reverse Mist Form treatment? Change it to only reduce damage from non-Player sources - that way the PvP crowd will be appeased, and the PvE vampires don't have to suffer another nerf. Better than cutting the passive entirely, in any case.

Erickson9610 · March 1

Spectral_Force wrote: »

Not sure if this has been suggested before, but could Undeath be solved by giving it the reverse Mist Form treatment? Change it to only reduce damage from non-Player sources - that way the PvP crowd will be appeased, and the PvE vampires don't have to suffer another nerf. Better than cutting the passive entirely, in any case.

Even then, the argument can be made that we should be required to roleplay as a vampire/werewolf to get any benefit from the respective skill line. Vampire only has to feed (or use one of the Vampire drinks) once every 4 hours to maintain the desired Stage to benefit from the Vampire passives with no required active abilities slotted, while Werewolf must give up their Ultimate, all non-Werewolf abilities, and must constantly feed to keep their timer up in order to benefit from any of their passives.

Why would anyone choose to become a Vampire if they're just going to hide the skin and never slot any Vampire active abilities? Well, it's because of the passives. If Werewolf players benefitted from Werewolf passives in human form, then you'd see people pick Werewolf for the passives but never actually transform. There is a huge difference in commitment to the RP factor between these two curses/skill lines.

moo_2021 · March 1

Spectral_Force wrote: »

Not sure if this has been suggested before, but could Undeath be solved by giving it the reverse Mist Form treatment? Change it to only reduce damage from non-Player sources - that way the PvP crowd will be appeased, and the PvE vampires don't have to suffer another nerf. Better than cutting the passive entirely, in any case.

Nobody use undeath in PvE. You have the ring of pale order or double healing to keep alive.

Most of PvP crowd are quite happy with the current undeath because we're vampires ourselves. Not happy? Just become a vampire.

techprince · March 1

Mist Form and Iron Blood both were changed. Why was undeath ignored?

silentxthreat · March 2

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

this post sums up a lot of the things that could fix pvp. This passive is why its so hard to balance pvp atm

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · March 2

Btw, lets not forget that Undeath stacks with Relentlessness and Pain's Refuge and provides fire resistance.

Durham · March 2

/agree
so does almost everyone that PVP but this change will take how many patch schedules to happen. This one thing that is the most telling situation at what’s going on with balance in the game. How long has this been an issue and how long will it take to respond?

Durham · March 2

Btw when are we going to see pvp balanced different from pve.

techprince · March 3

Durham wrote: »

Btw when are we going to see pvp balanced different from pve.

In a different game