My beautiful brother's and sisters, english is *not like my first 3languages so pardon my mistakes,while I give my opinion with 10k hours of doin group content and some dabbling in pvp.
Veteran trials consists of nonHM, HM, TRIFECTA, scorepushing. Each with varying levels of difficulty, coordination between players, players time invested in honing their skills and mechanics knowledge about the trial and in game as general.
Craiglorn trials are the easiest for HM and NONHM dabbling to get a taste of endgame on varying difficulties of nonHM and HM.
then comes Older dlc trials vSS, vKA, vCR, VAS, NON HMwhich require group coordination and everyone doin mechanics and slight dps checks so supports aren't overburdened, but still can be done if 2-3 dps and 1tank+healer knows full layout of trial and how it works and actively helps in the completion.
The newer trials nonHM vRG, vDSR, VSE require 3-5dps, 2 tanks 2 healers,knowing and willing to do mechanics for completion.
Regarding HMs all the DLC trials need everyone to know mechanics and actively help in various roles say tombs, portals, reefs/bridges, kite/block/spread out mechanics and many more for completion
Trifectas are same but everyone has to be perfect while min maxing while scorepushing brings it up to a notch with no room for errors.
Now normal trials, no they are not remotely close to endgame or starting position for them in my opinion as eso makes them different then others, example : you can straight burn everything with half decent dps in purple crafted gear and don't have any mechanics except 3-4 bosses which might be a chore at best which again can be completed with 1-2 people are doing mechanics in crafted purple gear. Also all of them can be done with half the required team 6/12 so theirs no comparision to difficulty spikes/mechanics punishment/coordination/dps checks/burdening of supports as compared with veteran trials.
Whatever you guys choose I hope it will bring you guys joy and fun and make you smile at the end of the day, cuz that's the point of video games.

Edited for some typos and grammer

Dragonnord wrote: »

Toanis wrote: »

For me, endgame starts when you use your character like a gaming piece that fulfills a certain role in a team, you're in endgame... you, the player, join a group and consider respeccing or logging to another char that is better suited for the task ahead, you're in endgame.

Like participating in a group that will do Role Play walking through the city and your role is crafting a long sword and dressing up in gold clothings, since you represent a fair protector king saluting the townfolks, correct?

That's endgame, right? Since it fits your description above.
 

Let's phrase it like this: any content where I need to pulI myself together to not ruin other player's experience is Endgame, that might include roleplay. Same goes for solo content where I need to chose gear and skills for functionality rather than fun.

The condescending attitude of the vet trial crowd feels kinda cute when you come from a progression raiding background.

A couple of things stand out for me with these replies.

• Some players define endgame by its difficulty.
• Some players define endgame by the type of content it is.

I fall in the second category.

A normal trial can be done with a group of 12, even though it can possibly be done with less, but because it is a trial it allows for 12.
A normal trial is in the same place, albeit less difficult and less mechanics than on veteran, but still the same place and story.
A normal trial has never been promoted as casual or solo content, so does not fall into that category.

I never even heard the term "midgame" until it came up in another thread recently, and I've been gaming for a very long time.

I understand that it is hard to try new things, I also had to leave my comfort zone when I decided to do my first normal trial. And it was easier than I expected.
Sometimes the game pushes us to try new things, for those who hesitate, I encourage you to try them.

Pvp is the true endgame content

SilverBride wrote: »

I never even heard the term "midgame" until it came up in another thread recently, and I've been gaming for a very long time.

It's fairly common in some areas of gaming to define games in terms of "Early Game", "Mid-Game", and "Late Game." Early Game in an rpg is where you're wearing whatever you can find, fighting basic enemies, leveling rapidly, and learning the ropes. Mid-Game is the area where you're finally filling out what your character can do, gaining more options rather than just growing more powerful, getting set on your equipment, and are moving into more challenging content. Late Game is the time where your character is fully developed, and you've had the experience needed to face the more demanding encounters the game has to offer.

End Game caps off the Late Game, where players go to, essentially, push the limits of what they can do with the games systems. A player still in early/mid-game facing a challenge is them learning still, whereas the end game equivalent is instead a more punishing test of knowledge that requires more precise execution, or in some games is a test of skill to reach higher scores or better times, depending on the type of challenge.

It's interesting to see how players look at this from such different perspectives. I wish there was a concrete definition but I don't know if that is even possible.

For those who are defining normal trials as endgame due to it being grouped: what about the solo arenas and solo dungeon communities? Is Maelstrom, Vateshran, or a solo dungeon trifecta not endgame? Maelstrom, Vateshran, and IA can be scorepushed. Solo dungeon can’t but only the best of the best can solo, say, SCP, MHK, or MoS tri.

Soarora wrote: »

For those who are defining normal trials as endgame due to it being grouped: what about the solo arenas and solo dungeon communities? Is Maelstrom, Vateshran, or a solo dungeon trifecta not endgame? Maelstrom, Vateshran, and IA can be scorepushed. Solo dungeon can’t but only the best of the best can solo, say, SCP, MHK, or MoS tri.

I don't consider a normal trial as endgame just due to it being grouped. I consider it that because a normal trial is in the same place as a the veteran version and is still basically the same type of content, regardless of the different difficulties. In my mind if one trial is endgame, they all are.

I consider arenas endgame also, but if I put up a poll about that I am sure others would probably have different perspectives on it... just like with this poll.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

If you have to optimize & min/max - then it is an "End Game" imho.

Trials and group arenas, do not have MM / group finder. The only way to do them is to join a guild or try "player made" activity finder. And it very often means that you are being inspected what class are you, what sets do you have etc, so it is gatekeeping you form clearing the instance at least once. It is same as Ball Groups / Group play in PvP. You are being asked to use specific gear/skills/class etc or we don't want you in the group.

Normal trials require no min/maxing at all though. They can be completed "naked" ie no armour, with less than half the usually required number of people and with a full team of sub 50 characters.

There's also a group finder for trials now so guilds are not necessary

Sheridan wrote: »

Yes, all trials are endgame content by definition. There is nothing beyond them. Endgame content, as everything else, can have different modes, but it's endgame nonetheless.

Based on the comments above, I guess many of those who clicked "no" were actually answering the question "Do you consider normal Trials to be difficult", which is not the same thing.

I don’t understand what you mean by saying that there is nothing beyond trials. There are vet trials and hardmodes beyond normal trials. And many DLC dungeons are more challenging than many normal trials. I would say the normal versions of whichever activity are casual while vet is endgame in the sense of being the next step, with hardmodes and trifectas the ultimate. In terms of difficulty, certainly this varies wildly with the normal mode of some content being more challenging than the vet modes of most older content.

Muizer wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't consider a normal trial as endgame just due to it being grouped. I consider it that because a normal trial is in the same place as a the veteran version and is still basically the same type of content, regardless of the different difficulties. In my mind if one trial is endgame, they all are.

If I may ask, if not difficulty, what criterion does make trials endgame?

What I said above. They are the same type of content as veteran trials, which many are saying is endgame. Same place, same story, just more a more difficult version.

Does the difficulty of a veteran dungeon mean that the normal isn't a dungeon any more? Or 4 man group content? And should have a completely separate classification category?

SilverBride wrote: »

Does the difficulty of a veteran dungeon mean that the normal isn't a dungeon any more? Or 4 man group content? And should have a completely separate classification category?

It's more like there's casual/endgame solo content and casual/endgame group content.

For me....

Solo/group refers to the number of players it's designed for

Early/Mid/Endgame is the expected level of knowledge, experience, gear, etc needed to do well.

Trial/Arena/Dungeons are the types of content.