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Winning overland battles with eyes closed…

subarctic
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Combat sucks when a blind person can defeat enemies. Boring as hell.

In CoD you kill fast but also die quickly if not paying attention to the game.

The problem with ESO overland is that even a naked player has so much health that he/she is always in godmode, so you can win fights even if you close your eyes and just randomly spam skills.
Edited by ZOS_Hadeostry on January 18, 2024 11:27PM
  • Tandor
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    There's a pinned thread for discussing overland content difficulty, this one will likely get closed.
  • LunaFlora
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    if that really is possible then that just makes the game accessible which would be a good thing
    miaow this is my forum signature! my name is Luna ( she/her ).

    🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
    "Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
    🦬🦌🐰

    PlayStation EU is my primary server.
    LunaFloraBlossom on PlayStation 5 and PC.
    my main character is a Bosmer Warden named Greehnhart in-game, Greenie Florahart in full.


    all characters on PS EU:
    - Luna Blossom, Bosmer Dragonknight.
    - Dotty Greehnhart, Bosmer Sorcerer.
    - Lía Greehnhart, Khajiit Nightblade.
    - Lady Greehnhart, Altmer Templar. Lady is her name and title.
    - Holly Blossom, Altmer Sorcerer.
    - Sally Jadehart, Argonian Nightblade. Like a green salamander.
    - Dorothy Pizzalover, Orc Warden. add pizzas to the game please.
    - Greehnhart, Bosmer Warden.
    - Lúcia Azurehart, imperial Necromancer. Azureblight, she has a Maarselok outfit.
    - Bunny Rubyhart, Dunmer Nightblade.
    - Wisteria Antheia, Khajiit Templar. blue hair like the wisteria.
    - Cynthia Turquesa, Breton Warden.
    - Rubyhart, Bosmer Nightblade.
    - Hestia Rubyhart, Dunmer Dragonknight.
    - Aurelia Cherryhart, Altmer Warden. Spriggan.
    - Aurora Honey, Redguard Templar. Meridian cultist.
    - Speaks-With-Blossom, Argonian Warden.
    - Lulu Nightshade, Nord Necromancer.
    - Lunetta Gleamblossom, Bosmer Arcanist. Ohmes Khajiit.
    - Dianna Hyacinth, Altmer Arcanist. Maormer, water hyacinth.

    Links to my Housing threads:
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  • aspergalas4
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    LunaFlora wrote: »
    if that really is possible then that just makes the game accessible which would be a good thing

    Accessibility philosophy is what's hurting this game for many, at least it being taken too far from simply being "accessible content" to it being "impossible not to complete with ease content".
    There needs to be a learning curve and a challenge so players both new and existing can feel a sense of achievement doing the content. If neither are present it's not engaging and therefore not fun. At all. Hence the ongoing grievances regarding overland difficulty or lack thereof.

    Give as many players as possible access to core parts of the game sure, but don't make it tutorial level in difficulty to accommodate the bottom percentile.
  • subarctic
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    Simple solution: if you have no armor beneath your costume, you should have low health and die quickly if not paying attention to the game. Health should recover pretty quickly too. CoD has very simple mechanics but it’s engaging because much of the challenge is not to die. Even a blind person doesn’t die in ESO overland. Kill fast, die fast.
  • jtm1018
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    Mirri, 2 summons, then afk.
    An hour doing chores, my toon will still be alive.
    Just get the -50% cooldown on companions set.
  • subarctic
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    Bastian did a whole delve boss fight for me when I was afk.
  • Necrotech_Master
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    there is content with learning curves: trials, dungeons, arenas, infinite archive

    trials and dungeons have normal, vet, and vet HM as progression, arenas have normal and vet

    infinite archive just gets progressively more difficult the deeper you get

    theres also world bosses, good luck trying to afk any DLC world boss with a companion

    delves and public dungeons are the basic stepping stones for people (one to learn combat, and 2 to learn combat against larger enemy groups and bosses), after that its all the instanced content (dungeon/trial/arena/archive)

    edit to add: i remember the days pre-one tamriel when the zones had actual level ranges and it made navigating between areas or quests annoying because you could find a chest start picking it and then get 1 shotted by what we would now consider a low threat enemy (mudcrab or wasp or something) if you were even remotely below the level of the area, especially the vet level areas, so i much prefer overland being extremely low threat outside of WBs
    Edited by Necrotech_Master on January 17, 2024 11:01PM
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (fully filled out with current game), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    in progress: acquiring mundus stones (currently only have the thief)

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • aspergalas4
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    All true, and well put. However it doesn't address the concern raised by OP. That being little to no difficulty in the majority of encounters faced by the player. Your examples are all select activities, that you opt in for to experience a challenge. But even many of these are not "challenging" to a moderately active player depending on the mechanics present.

    I don't think the point is making everything much harder, its about making it so you have to pay attention and put some thought into more encounters instead of swatting them away like flies haha.
    You could have an enemy that doesn't pose much of a threat unless you make x mistake, or an enemy that is quite formidable but if you do x and y you are good, enemies with multiple action paths so you can't always predict what it will do with certainty. It just makes the enemies we come across a bit more engaging and therefore fun to defeat. We have the block, dodge and sneak features, these should be more in demand for overland content and not just a gimmick to make the game more Elder Scrolls-esque. They only really play a part in some of the activities you listed. These should be things you have to actively use to keep your character alive instead of just tanking the hits even if you are in light armour.
    Edited by aspergalas4 on January 17, 2024 11:14PM
  • subarctic
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    It’s not either or, because it’s easy to make both player bases happy, as I mentioned above.

    ESO is an RPG.

    RPG is mainly questing overland, it should not be so easy that it makes you snore.
    Edited by subarctic on January 17, 2024 11:05PM
  • ArchMikem
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    Kinda diminishes my level of attention when you chose to compare MMORPG combat, with Call of Duty.
    CP2,200+ Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • SeaGtGruff
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    I took a new low-level character with crappy gear to Blackwood back during the first Blackwood event, and found it rather hard to stay alive when fighting some of the overland enemies. I also found it rather hard to stay alive in overland back when I was first playing through Vvardenfell and the base-game zones. /shrug

    Sure, things are different now that my main characters are leveled up and have decent gear. But my low-level alts still have a somewhat tough time completing certain overland content.
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • subarctic
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    Solution: at the beginning of the game, give new players level 2 gear with much health.

    Level 1 armor sets should come with low health but also with good health recovery, so that you easily die if not paying attention to combat.

    Many other solutions also possible, like a health debuff potion that lasts an hour for example.
  • zaria
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    SeaGtGruff wrote: »
    I took a new low-level character with crappy gear to Blackwood back during the first Blackwood event, and found it rather hard to stay alive when fighting some of the overland enemies. I also found it rather hard to stay alive in overland back when I was first playing through Vvardenfell and the base-game zones. /shrug

    Sure, things are different now that my main characters are leveled up and have decent gear. But my low-level alts still have a somewhat tough time completing certain overland content.
    This, also has helped out new players in Craglorn group delves and other places.
    And newer dlc is harder, yes I like this, but is not suited to new players.

    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • AcadianPaladin
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    I like the game as it is regarding difficulty just fine. If I want more challenge, there are plenty of places to find it. The last thing I want when traveling/harvesting is to have major fights with every wolf or spriggan I encounter. As far as quests go, they need to absolutely be doable by all players if you want to keep all players.

    Though I have no interest in it, I would certainly not object to a difficulty slider that players who want more overland challenge can adjust to their taste. This would basically be a slider that nerfs the player.
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • Beilin_Balreis_Colcan
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    SeaGtGruff wrote: »
    I took a new low-level character with crappy gear to Blackwood back during the first Blackwood event, and found it rather hard to stay alive when fighting some of the overland enemies. I also found it rather hard to stay alive in overland back when I was first playing through Vvardenfell and the base-game zones. /shrug

    Sure, things are different now that my main characters are leveled up and have decent gear. But my low-level alts still have a somewhat tough time completing certain overland content.
    Same here. I think those forum members saying that brand-new characters can easily defeat all overland enemies are just assuming that *their* experience of the game is everyone's.
    PC(Steam) / EU / play from Melbourne, Australia / avg ping 390
  • subarctic
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    “ think those forum members saying that brand-new characters can easily defeat all overland enemies are just assuming that *their* experience of the game is everyone's”

    My nerfed level 1- 42 toons are winning when I close my eyes. Doesn’t get more handicapped than that. Not saying that all overland is equally easy, just the majority of this RPG content.

    “ Kinda diminishes my level of attention when you chose to compare MMORPG combat, with Call of Duty.”

    Comparison valid, because ESO overland mechanics are relatively simple, and I’m not asking ESO to make all these NPC enemies more complicated in how they fight. But CoD has even simpler mechanics, and it’s still engaging. Why? Because in CoD you have to fight to survive. Nerfing health, for those who want it, is one quick and easy solution. Again: kill fast, die fast.
  • Tandor
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    vsrs_au wrote: »
    SeaGtGruff wrote: »
    I took a new low-level character with crappy gear to Blackwood back during the first Blackwood event, and found it rather hard to stay alive when fighting some of the overland enemies. I also found it rather hard to stay alive in overland back when I was first playing through Vvardenfell and the base-game zones. /shrug

    Sure, things are different now that my main characters are leveled up and have decent gear. But my low-level alts still have a somewhat tough time completing certain overland content.
    Same here. I think those forum members saying that brand-new characters can easily defeat all overland enemies are just assuming that *their* experience of the game is everyone's.

    We also have to remember that those "brand-new characters" very likely have a couple of thousand CPs and their controlling players' veteran knowledge and mastery of the game.
  • Braffin
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    SeaGtGruff wrote: »
    I took a new low-level character with crappy gear to Blackwood back during the first Blackwood event, and found it rather hard to stay alive when fighting some of the overland enemies. I also found it rather hard to stay alive in overland back when I was first playing through Vvardenfell and the base-game zones. /shrug

    Sure, things are different now that my main characters are leveled up and have decent gear. But my low-level alts still have a somewhat tough time completing certain overland content.

    May I ask which enemies did you find difficult specifically and what were your issues with them?
    Edited by Braffin on January 18, 2024 12:29AM
    Never get between a cat and it's candy!
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    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
  • Beilin_Balreis_Colcan
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    Tandor wrote: »
    vsrs_au wrote: »
    SeaGtGruff wrote: »
    I took a new low-level character with crappy gear to Blackwood back during the first Blackwood event, and found it rather hard to stay alive when fighting some of the overland enemies. I also found it rather hard to stay alive in overland back when I was first playing through Vvardenfell and the base-game zones. /shrug

    Sure, things are different now that my main characters are leveled up and have decent gear. But my low-level alts still have a somewhat tough time completing certain overland content.
    Same here. I think those forum members saying that brand-new characters can easily defeat all overland enemies are just assuming that *their* experience of the game is everyone's.

    We also have to remember that those "brand-new characters" very likely have a couple of thousand CPs and their controlling players' veteran knowledge and mastery of the game.
    Sorry, but that's a completely wrong assumption. A lot of the new characters are controlled by new players.
    PC(Steam) / EU / play from Melbourne, Australia / avg ping 390
  • erdYrrson
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    OP comes up monthly from that forum account in slight variations, every time closed by mod in favor of the relevant topic.

    Sept 2023 https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/643782/how-to-make-overland-combat-fun-for-everybody
    Oct 2023 https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644754/overland-combat-fun-now-naked-under-costume
    Dec 2023 https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/648509/eso-give-us-instakill-button-against-overland-npcs

    Don't know what that account is trying to achieve other than discrediting itself.
  • valenwood_vegan
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    erdYrrson wrote: »
    OP comes up monthly from that forum account in slight variations, every time closed by mod in favor of the relevant topic.

    Nice, I thought something seemed rather familiar here but didn't have the time to investigate.
  • subarctic
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    Investigate? Is this the Inquisition? :):)

    I’m bringing up this topic to remind devs that many are not happy playing RPG game content that you can do blindfolded, even with cp disabled.

    I’ll make sure to discredit my account next month too, hehe :smile:
  • SeaGtGruff
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    vsrs_au wrote: »
    SeaGtGruff wrote: »
    I took a new low-level character with crappy gear to Blackwood back during the first Blackwood event, and found it rather hard to stay alive when fighting some of the overland enemies. I also found it rather hard to stay alive in overland back when I was first playing through Vvardenfell and the base-game zones. /shrug

    Sure, things are different now that my main characters are leveled up and have decent gear. But my low-level alts still have a somewhat tough time completing certain overland content.
    Same here. I think those forum members saying that brand-new characters can easily defeat all overland enemies are just assuming that *their* experience of the game is everyone's.

    I think age (generation) and prior experience with FPS games can help. At Thanksgiving I let my young grandnephew take over on my main character in the Infinite Archive while I went to grab another glass of iced tea. When I came back he was fighting a cycle boss and beating it to a pulp. I said, "Wow, you're better against that boss than I am!" (Which wasn't entirely true, but I wanted to be encouraging after the ribbing I'd given him the day before when he took over during a fight with the Songbird WB and kept dying while the other player who was already there kept looking real hard at my character as though trying to figure out how someone at my CP level could be so lousy at staying alive.) To which he replied, with a little hint of dismissiveness in his voice, "You just have to block and dodge at the right times." I laughed at that, and said "So you're telling me I have a 'learn to play' issue?" I might add, this was on my MacBook Air, and he was controlling the game primarily with the keyboard and the touchpad, barely even touching the mouse.
    Braffin wrote: »
    SeaGtGruff wrote: »
    I took a new low-level character with crappy gear to Blackwood back during the first Blackwood event, and found it rather hard to stay alive when fighting some of the overland enemies. I also found it rather hard to stay alive in overland back when I was first playing through Vvardenfell and the base-game zones. /shrug

    Sure, things are different now that my main characters are leveled up and have decent gear. But my low-level alts still have a somewhat tough time completing certain overland content.

    May I ask which enemies did you find difficult specifically and what were your issues with them?

    In Blackwood, the enemies down in the southern swamps were beating up my lowbie pretty severely. I could tackle them one at a time if I could manage to avoid being surrounded, but it was hard to aggro one without alerting the others and getting overrun.

    Way back in Vvardenfell, I especially found trolls and dreughs to be challenging. I could usually stay alive while fighting trolls, but hadn't picked up on the fact that they can be interrupted when they start to regenerate their health, so I had a really hard time killing them. And dreughs were fun to kill-- for a while I was farming them to help level up my character-- but they were far from being pushovers for me.

    I might add that I prefer up-close melee fighting with swords and axes rather than ranged fighting with bows or staves, and I also prefer being able to stand my ground while I fight rather than constantly rolling around and dodging, so I tend to go for a more tanky build and worry less about DPS. I don't mind longer fights as long as I can stay alive long enough to kill the enemy, and I really enjoy fights such as the Songbird WB and Dubdil Alar WB in Vvardenfell, or the Terror Bird WB in Northern Elsweyr, where the adds swarm around me and I can just whale away at everything while standing still without dying.

    But that fighting style obviously doesn't work against everything. Up until recently I couldn't solo the Spider WB in Stormhaven because I would always die rather quickly once she starts spraying acid, or poison, or whatever it is. But playing on my newest alt-- an Arcanist Healer wearing Light Armor and fighting with a Restoration Staff-- actually helped me solo that WB, because I had to learn to avoid the cone of poison spray that the spider boss in Crow's Wood PD uses. During the New Life Festival I decided to try soloing the Spider WB again with my tanky mains, but this time I was careful to step aside when that red cone appears, which allowed me to stay alive and keep whittling down the boss until she eventually died. Like I said, L2P issues. :)

    The Queen's Consort WB starts using a similar sort of attack once he gets down to a certain health level, but I learned to avoid that long ago. I don't know why it took me so long to work that out with the spider WB, other than the fact that I never could stay alive more than 15 seconds so I just stopped trying to solo her. With the Queen's Consort, the cone of death attack doesn't come into play until much later in the fight, so my ability to stay alive for so long before that was giving me incentive to keep trying until I could work out what to do. If I keep dying mere seconds into a fight, it kind of takes away my enthusiasm to keep trying. /shrug
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • valenwood_vegan
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    subarctic wrote: »
    Investigate? Is this the Inquisition? :):)

    Haha no no, I meant it in only the casual sense... like just figure out for myself why the topic felt so familiar.

    Though it might be better to stick to the overland content thread, it's not up to me. I don't run anything around here!

    (And I would personally actually like to find more of a challenge when overland questing).
    Edited by valenwood_vegan on January 18, 2024 1:35AM
  • SeaGtGruff
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    To add to what I said about the Spider WB in Stormhaven, the boss and adds lay down a lot of circular DOT AOEs during the fight, which I can usually just stand in and ignore, healing myself as needed. When the red cone appears and the boss rears up to start spraying, it can be easy to miss seeing that red cone when it appears due to all of the overlapping red circles. That was probably part of why it took me so long (literally years) to notice the red cone and learn to step out of it before the boss starts to spray. I'm sure I would have noticed a lot sooner if I hadn't just hung up the towel so early on and avoided her for the longest time, but my strong stubborn streak definitely didn't help, either.

    I find it interesting that the "telegraphing" signals that the mobs and bosses in the Infinite Archive display before they launch an attack seem to have much longer durations before the attack begins, and the radiating lines for an impending attack that should be blocked seem to be much more pronounced (longer and brighter). Has anyone else noticed that? I'm thinking the devs went out of their way to try to help players recognize when there are incoming mechanics so they can prepare for them.
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • Warhawke_80
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    subarctic wrote: »
    Combat sucks when a blind person can defeat enemies. Boring as hell.

    In CoD you kill fast but also die quickly if not paying attention to the game.

    The problem with ESO overland is that even a naked player has so much health that he/she is always in godmode, so you can win fights even if you close your eyes and just randomly spam skills.

    Not everyone has the same skill level as you do...Overland is fine if you want a challenge Endless Archive is pretty deadly after a hour or so playing
    ““Elric knew. The sword told him, without words of any sort. Stormbringer needed to fight, for that was its reason for existence...”― Michael Moorcock, Elric of Melniboné
  • SeaGtGruff
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    One other thing I had meant to say is that a lot of players are fixated on acquiring the most powerful skills and BIS-META gear as quickly as possible. I realize that "fixated" could have negative implications, but I don't intend it to be an insult or criticism, merely an observation and I'm not sure of a better way to say it-- "dead set on"? "greatly concerned with"?

    Anyway, in my experience it's pretty common to see new players in zone chat asking about which sets they should get, which skill morphs they should pick, etc., as well as commiserating about how painful it is to grind for some particular lead to some particular fragment for some particular mythic. I also see players who've just switched servers or platforms talking about the grind for some specific leads or gear which they're trying to get ASAP. A lot of new players come into the game already full of knowledge and wisdom that they got from someone else's web site and build advice, or someone's "how to" walkthrough for where and how to get the "best" items.
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • subarctic
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    “Not everyone has the same skill level as you do”

    I suck.

    Just saying that ESO needs to keep both types of players happy: 1) the newbies who like extremely easy content and 2) regular gamers/vets.
  • TheMessengerOfDeath
    ESO has already leaned into power creep I know everybody has an opinion of the overland content but the main problem is the bast game zones are a snooze and ramps up in DLC areas just like DLC dungeons. You take for example

    volcanic vents from high isle and Galen.

    abyssal Geyser in Summeset

    dragons in Elsweyr

    Oblivion portals in the deadlands

    Ritual sites in blackreach

    Harrow storms in skyrim

    World bosses in those zones are pretty hard as well

    ect ect

    The base game zones are easy as pie but some of those listed above actual have hard content that a lot of the avg playerbase could never do solo even with a companion. ESO has a lot of power creep and tbh from somebody like me who has every zone cleared I enjoy the story quest lines in those zones but it gets annoying to have to find even 1 or 2 people to help clear certain content because I don't feel like trying to solo that content. The only problem is a lot of those zones are empty and if people are there they are doing their own thing. It's impossible some days to even find 1 person to help you do something.

    So yeah on one hand I agree the content is easy but those DLC zones contain some hard activities that can't be done solo for the large majority. This leads to frustration, burn out and people not even wanting to engage in particular content due to the sheer amount of power increase. Take craglorn for example idk why they haven't adjusted that zone yet. They should've fixed that with one tamieral dropped. They have to tread carefully with zone updates because a lot of people play this game as solo and honestly if you're like me and pretty play solo because they said the game has thousands of players, I never seen them anywhere maybe a couple dozen or either in very high pop trading zone areas just standing around talking in chat. So they need to be careful not to drive people away. It's annoying going from clearing an entire zone with world bosses having 1.2m hp and pretty simple mechanics to being hindered in the next zone a wb with 5.4m hp and as tons of 1 shot mechanics.

This discussion has been closed.