I'm not sure what to do. [resolved] [please close]

Braffin · October 2023

@wilykcat So, you were permabanned from several other online games and forums (out of "misunderstandings" you say) and were obviously not happy about that.

Nonetheless you make yourself a sport out of reporting other people, if they articulate themselves in a way you find inappropiate personally. Really, don't you see the problem here?

Regarding the linked thread: As far as I can see the post triggering you were acknowledged by moderation. They simply seem to disagree with you, otherwise the comment were removed back in 2019.

menedhyn · October 2023

With all respect, OP, I think your might enjoy the forums better if you found a way to focus on your own commentaries and contributions in a helpful and constructive manner (as I have seen you do). The moderation of the forums is best left to the moderators. How you achieve that separation has to come from you, and I am mindful of your openness on how you might view situations. We might occasionally see something we disagree with or dislike, whether it is a forumer or moderator post or action but, trust me, there are far more important matters and injustices to get vexed about.

I wish you well, always.

Trejgon · October 2023

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The forums have a lower age rating than the game

That is interesting notion, considering you need to buy the game to get the forum invite as far as I understand it.

spartaxoxo · October 2023

Trejgon wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The forums have a lower age rating than the game

That is interesting notion, considering you need to buy the game to get the forum invite as far as I understand it.

Yeah. I suspect it's because you don't need to buy the game to view the forums, only to post in it. So, to be safe they just make the website a lower age rating. Although, I'm fairly certain it's PG13 not E. So, I might be wrong about that. I can't remember where I saw that. I did find a mod posting about it though. I think that's something that would be interesting to hear about the reasoning.

ZOS_ConnorG wrote: »

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for Inappropriate Content. Even though ESO is rated M for Mature by the ESRB for, among other things, Sexual Themes, the ESO Forums have a lower age rating than that of the game. This means that content within ESO is not necessarily permitted on the forums, for example Sexual Theme (i.e. Inappropriate Content).

BahometZ · October 2023

I think a lot of us struggle not to cringe at what we might consider the overly earnest expression of inner workings by challenged individuals on these forums. I am sympathetic but the internet is a place of inherent friction. This is not where you go to learn nuance.

Seeing OP post all over these forums, I initially thought that it was performative trolling. I now realise that was off the mark and an uncharitable characterisation.

Investing yourself too much in online forums is absolutely not the play. Anxiety over internet discussion and attempting to police the views of others is not worth it. Honestly, if I was this wound up by etiquette on an online forum for a video game I would unplug my router.

tldr; don't waste your time here, talk to real people

Danikat · October 2023

I know this probably isn't easy advice for you to follow but my suggestion is to remember two things:

1) You are not a moderator, it is not your job to enforce the rules (or even remind other people of them) or to determine what needs to be done in all those awkward cases where it's not a clear-cut violation. If you think a post needs to be reported then report it but then do your best to forget about it and move on. It's not your problem.

2) You do not need to read or respond to anything you don't want to see. If a topic is annoying or you're concerned it might be against the rules but you're not sure you can stop reading it. Close it down and go and do something else, either on the forum or elsewhere.

If there's specific people who you find are always posting things you don't want to see you can hide their posts. Go to their profile and click the little button in the top-right corner with a person icon on it, then pick 'ignore'. Then everything they say will be hidden and you don't need to see it.

Just like no one else owes you special treatment because you've had a bad time elsewhere you do not owe them any more of your time and attention than you want to give. If you don't like what they're saying or how they're saying it you can stop reading and find someone who is worth your time to respond to instead.

Monte_Cristo · October 2023

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Trejgon wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The forums have a lower age rating than the game

That is interesting notion, considering you need to buy the game to get the forum invite as far as I understand it.

Yeah. I suspect it's because you don't need to buy the game to view the forums, only to post in it. So, to be safe they just make the website a lower age rating. Although, I'm fairly certain it's PG13 not E. So, I might be wrong about that. I can't remember where I saw that. I did find a mod posting about it though. I think that's something that would be interesting to hear about the reasoning.

ZOS_ConnorG wrote: »

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for Inappropriate Content. Even though ESO is rated M for Mature by the ESRB for, among other things, Sexual Themes, the ESO Forums have a lower age rating than that of the game. This means that content within ESO is not necessarily permitted on the forums, for example Sexual Theme (i.e. Inappropriate Content).

Which is still a bit strange, as it means there are parts of the game, including in game dialogue and lore books, that can't be mentioned or talked about on the forum. However, I do understand their point of wanting the forum to be viewed by people who haven't got the game.

wazzz56 · October 2023

My honest and genuine advice would be to probably take a breath, close out the tab and stay away from the forums for a while.

Aislinna · October 2023

One of the most important things I've learned in life for my own mental health is to walk away and address things later when I'm not triggered. Online and in this forum, when something upsets me, I may bang out a heated response and then I walk away and NEVER post the reply that I just banged out. When I calm down and return and re-read my reply, usually I delete it because the moderators have moderated it or closed the tthread without any input from me.

Learn to walk away and calm down before posting.

peacenote · October 2023

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Would you be less stressed if you didn’t feel a need to report anything against the rules? I rarely report anything unless I see someone being attacked or disrespected. For instance, against the rules or no, I don’t see any need to report posts as in the thread referenced, which were meant as jokes, though not everyone’s taste in humor, but not aimed at anyone and harmless in my opinion.

I realize that different things stress different people, but so long as you’re following the rules yourself (and I don’t think that is in question), it isn’t your job but the moderators’ to worry about what others post (at least that’s what I’m interpreting as the source of stress from your post).

(Edited for clarity, hopefully.)

I second this. And, OP, please don't take this personally, as I can see you have a lot of feelings about this, but on the other side of the coin, I find it a little... oh, I don't know... offensive? elitist? insulting? (I'm not quite even sure which word I want to use) to think of someone was going around, regularly reporting on other community members about rules that are being broken. It has this playground, tattle-tale, childish feeling to me. I would never report anything unless it was extremely egregious, like someone being clearly harassed because of an attribute they have shared about themselves. I'm a big "live and let live" person and, if I thought about it too much, if I imagined that many people are regularly reporting all rule infractions, it actually might keep me from feeling comfortable posting on the forums. Because rules are not black and white, there is interpretation to them, and comments and conversations that might be allowed by moderators could be extra-censored if reported by peers. Folks could literally end up with warnings they wouldn't otherwise have had because something was reported too many times. I would definitely say that you aren't just "helping" the mods if you report someone... you are now an active participant in the fate of the comment/thread/individual. Why not give up that mantle and just let the mods do their jobs?

Rules exist so that there is something to point to if they need to be enforced. That doesn't mean it is important, necessary, or realistic to 100% enforce them all the time. Just imagine how inundated the police would be with phone calls if people called in every time someone jay-walked, or littered, or walked in a cross walk when the light says "don't walk" but clearly there are no cars for miles, or didn't pick up their dog's waste. REALLY think about the world and your community and what it would feel like if people went around reporting every minor infraction all the time. Think about how it would make you feel if everyone was watching and reporting on everything you did.

As to the forums and the two types of rules you are worried about. Your post actually surprised me because there has been a lot of discussion and frustration with the forums and how heavily moderated they are, and how quickly posts are moved or closed. I have been around a long time and, if anything, the forums are moderated more than ever before. Complaints about the forums have been heard, such that there is even a survey about it for us to take. (Now, I'm not sure it's asking the right questions, but that's a whole different topic... they're trying and I appreciate that.) So it may be that you are seeing the moderators experiment with leaving necro'd threads open when they are still relevant - I know I sure wish they were less militant about those.

As for swearing, I tend to agree with the comment that points out this game is 18+. However I do know various religions and cultures are extremely uncomfortable with profanity so overall, that's one I'll let the mods handle. I personally would prefer them to be more lenient, as we are all adults and scenarios where the language is playful, funny, etc. and not targeting anyone seem to be Ok to me. I do understand why you and others might not feel the same way, though.

I think it might be less stressful for you to re-think your role on the forums (all forums, not just this one), and not worry about what others are doing and if they are following the rules. If I were you, that's what I would do...but of course, that's because that is what I do now!

Live and let live! Intervention should only be necessary if someone is being harassed, forcefully excluded, etc. Remember, no one can make you feel anything, so it might be helpful for you to adopt a different mindset and not be bothered or influenced by an apparent profanity bypass or other rule that has been broken or seems to have been applied inconsistently. The moderation will never be "perfect" because rules are not perfect because humans are not perfect, so long term you'll probably enjoy yourself more if you can peruse the forums without worrying about how they are moderated. Just know the rules for yourself so you can try not to break them, yourself.

Four_Fingers · October 2023

"I'd love to change the world. but I don't know what to do." Alvin Lee - Ten years after.
You can't change human behavior, for your own sanity move on from it and play ESO you love so much.

wilykcat · October 2023

Thank you all for your helpful comments. I was in a rough spot and realize I went into a rather long rant there. 837 words? I'm so embarrassed. I've learned that I'm too sensitive and passionate about the forums, and that if something is bothering me, it's best to try and step away, but it's so hard sometimes. And I need to let the moderators do their job, I know they have a tough one sometimes.

Ishtarknows · October 2023

We need a disagree button.

EF321 wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

We need a disagree button.

No.

Why not?

29 people (at least) would disagree with you. Why should we only be able to emote in agreement with a post and not show that we do not agree?

JanTanhide · October 2023

What I read in this Forum doesn't bother me.

I really don't understand doing something that stresses you out so much. I.E. reading this Forum.

TaSheen · October 2023

Ishtarknows wrote: »

We need a disagree button.

EF321 wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

We need a disagree button.

No.

Why not?

29 people (at least) would disagree with you. Why should we only be able to emote in agreement with a post and not show that we do not agree?

In other forums I've used that have had a disagree option, it has rapidly become a not-so-subtle method of trolling, and therefore got removed fairly quickly. They still seem to have somewhat of that situation on reddit for instance.

IIRC they did used to have something like that here, but found it also caused mass trolling and did away with it.

Tesman85 · October 2023

I wouldn't word things as harshly as FantasticFreddie, but in the main I have to agree with him. My advice would be that instead of reporting every little thing that you don't like, you should learn to control the compulsive need to react instead. Closing the tab, utilizing some relaxation technique etc. is far preferable. If you have counseling support or something, they might have helpful hints. Of course, things that are clearly against the law or are blatant personal attacks are a different matter and should be reported.

The unfortunate thing is that the world, including online forums, isn't perfect and never will be. It might be a tough pill to swallow, but it has to be understood unless one wants to burn himself out from frustration and resentment. And, frankly, most people don't like persons who might report every little slip of word and so threaten to inflict out-of-proportion punishment on them at worst. Even if that kind of zealous reporting and/or nitpicking isn't done out of malice, it does appear so to an average person. Besides, no one wants to be constantly wary writing on a forum that is supposed to be at least partly a place of relaxation and enjoyment. So over-zealous moderation and "informers" tend to have the effect of dampening all discussion, even if it would be fully within rules.

Danikat · October 2023

TaSheen wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

We need a disagree button.

EF321 wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

We need a disagree button.

No.

Why not?

29 people (at least) would disagree with you. Why should we only be able to emote in agreement with a post and not show that we do not agree?

In other forums I've used that have had a disagree option, it has rapidly become a not-so-subtle method of trolling, and therefore got removed fairly quickly. They still seem to have somewhat of that situation on reddit for instance.

IIRC they did used to have something like that here, but found it also caused mass trolling and did away with it.

There used to be a 'lol' reaction which some people decided was a substitute "down vote" button. I think at one point some people had a whole code worked out for what each of the reactions "really meant", but it never worked well because the reactions are anonymous and only a minority of people subscribed to the 'secret' code meanings so it was impossible to know if the person who had clicked the button meant it literally or intended the 'secret' alternate meaning.

I've been on forums with an actual disagree button and never found it much use. An agree button works - you can safely assume if someone clicked it they agree entirely with everything said and have nothing else to add. But if they disagree and literally the only information you have is that someone, somewhere, disagreed with part or all of what you said you can't do anything with that information.

The only potential benefit is giving those who are unable to explain their thoughts but still want to vent a way to feel like they've contributed something while actually keeping them out of the discussion entirely.

TaSheen · October 2023

Oh right - @Danikat, I wasn't here back that far, forgot it was "lol" instead of disagree.

ZOS_Volpe · October 2023

Hi there,

After removing a handful of posts that were baiting, bashing, and non-constructive, we must remind everyone that all should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the rules that we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to take a few moments to review them here.

We've also gone ahead and passed this thread on to @ZOS_Kevin, who will follow-up later today. Please keep a look out for his response!

Thank you for your understanding.

Elsonso · October 2023

wilykcat wrote: »

Thank you all for your helpful comments. ... I've learned that I'm too sensitive and passionate about the forums, and that if something is bothering me, it's best to try and step away, but it's so hard sometimes. And I need to let the moderators do their job, I know they have a tough one sometimes.

Stepping away is the right thing to do, and no, it is not always easy.

That distance provides perspective, and also allows any initial emotional response to subside. I find that if something really triggers me, if I set it aside for half an hour, my response is completely different when I return. On the forum, what it usually means is that a response I would have written, if done right away, never gets written, or is written entirely differently.

Besides that, it is important to remember that most, nearly all, of what happens on the forum is ultimately unimportant. It is small stuff. All of it. Stepping away helps with remembering that.

Monte_Cristo wrote: »

Which is still a bit strange, as it means there are parts of the game, including in game dialogue and lore books, that can't be mentioned or talked about on the forum.

I do believe that has come up, actually.

TaSheen wrote: »

Oh right - @Danikat, I wasn't here back that far, forgot it was "lol" instead of disagree.

Yup...

SilverBride · October 2023

wilykcat wrote: »

I came to the forums not only to give out my suggestions, feedback, and ideas, but also to improve. The reasons why I am on these forums is to hopefully overcome my online struggles, become stronger, to learn how to read and understand others better, to write better, and that I am finally considered someone who is worthy of listening to.

The mere fact that posters open your threads and read them shows that they do consider you someone worth listening to. Even if they don't agree with your idea or suggestion, they still took the time to see what you had to say.

One of my favorite posters on this forum is a person I rarely share the same viewpoint with. We are like polar opposites in many of our views but I hold her in the highest regard because of how knowledgeable and respectful her posts are. So not agreeing with someone doesn't mean we don't value them as a productive poster.

Tyrant_Tim · October 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

I came to the forums not only to give out my suggestions, feedback, and ideas, but also to improve. The reasons why I am on these forums is to hopefully overcome my online struggles, become stronger, to learn how to read and understand others better, to write better, and that I am finally considered someone who is worthy of listening to.

The mere fact that posters open your threads and read them shows that they do consider you someone worth listening to. Even if they don't agree with your idea or suggestion, they still took the time to see what you had to say.

One of my favorite posters on this forum is a person I rarely share the same viewpoint with. We are like polar opposites in many of our views but I hold her in the higest regard because of how knowledgable and respectful her posts are. So not agreeing with someone doesn't mean we don't value them as a productive poster.

Not exactly, when you title a thread…

“I’m not sure what to do.”

You guarantee a flood of people that all want to see what the actual topic is, and whether or not they could provide ESO advice, regardless of the user.

Tyrant_Tim · October 2023

Back to an earlier thread regarding Forum Feedback, this is exactly why we need to axe General as a forum category.

When I get on my phone, I don’t want to read about drama, or people getting overly emotional, I want to see if anyone posted anything interesting game related, or if anyone has any questions from playing the game.

While I sympathize with the OP, the Forums are not the place to develop character, or a place to vent a mental health crisis.

wilykcat · October 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Back to an earlier thread regarding Forum Feedback, this is exactly why we need to axe General as a forum category.

When I get on my phone, I don’t want to read about drama, or people getting overly emotional, I want to see if anyone posted anything interesting game related, or if anyone has any questions from playing the game.

While I sympathize with the OP, the Forums are not the place to develop character, or a place to vent a mental health crisis.

I now agree with your statement.

General Discussion as a category is a very messy one. There has always been some rule violations( minor to major ones) and off-topic stuff in that category that somehow doesn't get caught. I've seen lots of bizarre posts in general discussion and some are not really about the game Elderscrolls either.

As a suggestion there should be more moderation specifically for general discussion just to keep it well maintained, as it is the most popular category. If general discussion gets split into two new categories, that would be nice.

What I meant by updating the rules is for those to have better understanding of them. Like creating a text scale of which rule violations are more severe, minor, or in between; underneath the listed rule. Which ones are more or less enforced, an example of a moderation action recieved for breaking the specific rule, more clear information about the rules and moderation actions , and making them easier to read. Not suggesting to remove any specific rules and not allowing bad stuff.

What I was thinking about the forum categories organization is to merge not used ones together. Also updating the names and descriptions for all the categories. Even creating some new ones for new in game features.

Add the dev tracker tab to mobile version of the forums (click on 3 bars on upper left corner and put dev tracker under recent discussions).

I'm mostly using the forums for a lot of reasons and maybe it's not a good idea to take everything I read personally. I will work on that.

ZOS_Kevin · October 2023

Hi All, just wanted to add some additional perspective here by answering some of your questions, @wilykcat:

Have the rules been updated?

We last updated the rules in Nov.2022. That was the addition of the no spoilers rule. However, if there is to be a change in rules or an overhaul, we would make sure to outline that before it happens. Rule additions may be added at any time and will come with a post explaining the addition.

What are the list of changes that are already happening on the forums and which ones are soon to come? I am stressing every day about what is going to happen to the forums. I always think that the worse possible thing that could happen will happen (for me that is profanity and other inappropriate content are allowed, less moderation/moderators in all aspects, and totally big changes such as major alterations to the format, policies, and software).

No need to stress about changes. When changes are on their way, we will let you know ahead of time. However, what we are currently eyeing for changes will be overall format of the forum. Mostly streamlining categories. We have too many and this is leading to lack of desired interaction for those posting, while also causing frustration for us at an organizational end. Streamlining should help with those issues while also helping with other smaller factors as well. However, nothing has been decided yet. We are waiting until the end of the Forum Improvement Survey period to start discussing any big changes in that vain. We will also take a look at guidelines, but those probably will not change much. This process is not meant to stress you out. It is meant to improve your overall experience, so you are having more (and hopefully better) interactions with fellow ESO players.

We are also hoping to have more forms of content on here that everyone is happy with. Some of the feedback from our improvement survey will help inform that content. However, this is a longer term goal, so nothing you'll see until later next year.

I need more information about what kind of content is ok to report or not and how much reports are my limit. I don't understand when its ok for threads to be closed or not along with similar actions. I notice recently some dirty things have been getting posted and usually there would be a snip or a thread lock, but now there is a stunning lack of it. Which is driving me crazy. I wish there were even more moderators to join these forums who are professionals, have very high standards, and who cannot be deceived.

I want to start out by saying, thank you for actively wanting to keep the community a safe place. Many ppl in this thread feel the same and it is appreciated.

A core thing we have to juggle in this conversation is what is harmful vs. someone's preference in content. We have to remember that this is a rated M game, and even in-game we flirt the line of suggestive sometimes. We are adults here and should be able to have more nuanced conversation that reflect the maturity of the content being consumed. The core things to consider if you are going to report something are:

-is it excessive?
-is it too graphic in detail?
-is it meant to harm, directly or indirectly?

If you come across content that fits in the bracket, then please report it. We want to keep this a safe area. But if the content is just not to your liking or someone's comment its not to your liking, please just don't engage with it. If someone is trying to force you to engage with the content, that should be reported. If you have a question regarding if something should be reported, please DM a mod or myself. We can assist.

Also please keep in mind that just because something is reported doesn't mean it is taken down no questions asked. Mods review reports against our TOS and determine if it fits before taking action. We understand sometimes what you deem problematic may not be actioned upon. Part of our job is making sure that we are not infringing on someone else's right to speech on the forum, because of someone else's preference.

So one thing to note here is we are not expecting you to be a moderator. If you see something bad or nefarious, please absolutely report it. However, we are not expecting you to be assessing others content and making the determination if the content is bad or not. You do not need to seek it out.

On last note on moderation. Moderation is a very tricky thing. We've said this before, but we will say it again. Our mods try they best they can, but they will not get moderation correct 100% of the time. They are human, and over corrections and under corrections will happen. But they work hard to thread the needle to support community members who say they moderate to aggressively and support other community members who say they are not aggressive enough (many of you will laugh, but they do exist). We will continue to work at gauging moderation and hopefully some of the overall changes to the forum will aid in that over time.

Okay, so this was a lot. And at the time of wrapping this up, it is dinner time for me. So I do hope this helped some. @wilykcat If you still have questions, please feel free to DM. Happy to go over any specifics.

Others in thread, thanks for sharing your perspectives as well. Seems like it helped Wilykcat a bit.

Vulkunne · October 2023

First of all @wilykcat I do enjoy reading your posts and can appreciate someone who may have a different perspective on things.

That said, one thing that has always helped me when dealing with people is going into a conversation with the understanding that everyone isn't always going to agree with me, even when they should, even when there is no reason to say otherwise or to cast doubt on what I'm saying, people will be people and its something we can't change. Moderation is necessary to enforce policy but I think its against the spirit of the law to get too personal with people.

It gets interesting when you stop trying to make friendlies with everyone and begin to understand who your real friends are. Indeed, a great amount of time and energy gets wasted in society because some authorities have these high ideals as what people should be like yet can't see the people for how they are past their own 'personal' vision. And I guess that's something I kind of learned earlier on this year, too, was that some people you gotta let them go and move on. If they will not do what they're supposed to do or follow 'the rules' then why expect them to follow your rules or respect what you think is important?

Only thing we can do sometimes is make the right decisions in spite of how others feel about them, because a friend would understand. A friend would not demand you explain yourself. Let the chips fall wherever they may but don't get crushed by them.

DragonRacer · October 2023

I have some thoughts to contribute as someone who has been, as I'd call it, "extremely online" with gaming forums for probably 10-15+ years now.

@wilykcat I apologize for past comments towards you. There was a stretch of time in recent memory for me where I got incredibly annoyed and essentially accused you of acting like a hall monitor or trying to act like a moderator here. That was not nice to say and I did not understand the struggles that you have nor how ingrained the forum is to you. I recognize I can sometimes fail to think about how the other person I am responding to is not me, may not be like me at all, may have different challenges in life from me, and is coming from a different perspective. Different does not equate wrong... it just equates being different.

I will say, though, that it makes others posting (I speak personally for myself and thinking others might feel the same, as some have already expressed similar sentiments) a bit fearful to think even an innocent post might be reported constantly to moderators because it might ride the line of a rule. I chose not to live in a neighborhood with a Home Owners Association for those very reasons - not wishing my life be dictated by someone who would evict me because I injured my back and couldn't cut my lawn that weekend and couldn't afford to hire someone to do it for me. Sometimes rules are simply too extreme and do not appreciate nuance or situations appropriately.

Your anguish at potential forum changes makes me feel badly for you and I want to share a personal story - not to frighten you or create more anguish, but to give some perspective. I was very, VERY heavily involved in the BioWare forums for years. Ended up relatively well-known in that fan space from fellow fans and a smattering of devs alike. I spent a LOT of time on there - arguably, in hindsight, too much time. I would, at times, neglect some things in my real life in order to be more involved with posting there. I even had some threads stickied by the devs and mods there that were helpful and basically curated much of the collective forum knowledge on topics into one thread where someone could search for that topic and find a few hand-selected help threads on each subject.

One day, BioWare (or perhaps their owner, EA) decided it would close the forums. And when I say close, I mean we had a countdown on when our posting privileges would cease, and after about a 2-month grace period, the forums would be taken down. Cease to exist. All that curated knowledge I had spent YEARS putting together as a community service - gone within a few months as if it had never happened. You want to talk about someone having a total meltdown about forum changes - hi, that was me. I worked for 2 months with a few others to create a fan-run forum and basically copy-pasted everything we could of the knowledge libraries, but 2 months for 10+ years of accumulated fan knowledge is impossible to fully save. My posting activity in the community dwindled dramatically as a result even on the "lifeboat" fan-forum we created and I barely even look at it today.

I do not share this story to frighten you. I don't think that is what will happen here (not as of yet, anyway). But I share that to try and convey that the online space is temporary and can be gone overnight. To let its structure and future dictate your feelings is not healthy for you. Even before BioWare ultimately nuked their own forums, there would be times a thread or a fight in a thread would upset me to the point that my husband - hi, person I am married to in the real world - would ask me what was wrong, was I okay. Over a video game forum. It was a wake-up call that maybe I was investing far too much of myself emotionally as well as my time in a virtual format that ultimately went ka-blooey in the end anyway.

I still 100% believe in the value of forums and the long-winded discussion format they provide. It is a unique space from social media and from other online gathering places, such as Reddit with voting comments up and down for viewing versus timestamps. But never again will I invest a large segment of my personal life and personal feelings into a forum again. It is easy to get sucked into it and addicted. And it's not inherently bad to be involved - I wouldn't be posting here right now otherwise. But you should engage the forum at arm's length, so to speak. Don't let happenings on it dictate your mood or affect your real life. It is simply not worth that.

@ZOS_Kevin - "But they work hard to thread the needle to support community members who say they moderate to aggressively" - I do have to say this is very true. While I am still not a fan of user-created "event guides" being immediately moved out of General Discussion, the mods here are not 100% unaware of forum feedback. There was one weekend - and I note ONLY the one weekend - where the Luxury Furnishing Vendor thread was moved from General to Housing or something like that. I raised absolute cane. So did others. And while it didn't "save" that weekend's thread, I have not seen any other Luxury Furnishing Vendor (or Golden Vendor, for that matter) thread moved out of General Discussion and that honestly both surprised and impressed me. So while the answer to my "WHY DID YOU DO THIS???" isn't always answered with "Sorry, we get your point" - as it shouldn't - sometimes it is and it is noticed and appreciated when that happens.

Wishing a good evening to all.

Rogue_WolfESO · October 2023

I haven't been able to figure out why profanity used by players of a game intended for mature players is concerning.

Vaqual · October 2023

Rogue_WolfESO wrote: »

I haven't been able to figure out why profanity used by players of a game intended for mature players is concerning.

fetch

wolfie1.0. · October 2023

wilykcat wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Moderators are less active late night, so you may need to wait until normal business hours for something to be handled sometimes.

In addition, we had stricter moderation before and the community begged for it to be less restrictive. Nobody is perfect and part of the mods job is to not only enforce the rules, but to use reasonable discretion to facilitate productive and positive communication. So, that people feel free to share their opinions. Over reporting can also cause people who are pretty normal posters to be banned for life unfairly. Just because very minor mistakes that are so minor that not everyone would even agree it breaks the rules can add up.

As a general rule, mods err towards keeping threads peaceful and not attacking others. They aren't there to scare people to having the perfect communication skills of a professional PR agent. They are there to keep discourse respectful and mostly on topic. The one in question didn't use profanity to offend or hurt anyone (in fact it was censored), but to make people laugh. And it was received in that light by everyone in that thread. So, clearly they let it slide. A harmless joke that made everyone posting in the thread laugh is significantly more likely to be shown a little grace than someone attacking another.

It is very obvious that the censored out bad word is the bad F-bomb. Everyone knows what that word is because it was not totally censored.

I never use profanity in any case what so ever, and it never once made me laugh (That's why I don't find tasteless jokes funny). Just because others say "its fine to use profanity" that doesn't mean I should be using it. I know its wrong to use profanity. Lots of those bad words(profanity) have extremely inappropriate definitions and very harsh meanings behind them. I also say that profanity usage is overrated/annoying.

Its a complicated topic because everyone has different views of what are bad words(profanity) or not. Its better to be safe than sorry and to keep profanity off the forums no matter what the circumstances are.

I don't use profanity at all either. It's not part of my language, personality, philosophy, or moral code.

I feel the world can live without expletives and derogatory words.

That said, I don't strive to force my morals and philosophy on others. If others want similar things or to change then awesome. I enforce such things as I decide in my spaces, but the forums are not my space. It's ZOS space and we all are just visitors.

I would also add that sometimes the moderation can make things worse with the filtering of words. What some would consider a soft swear when censored can turn into what people thing is a hard swear or even something like a racial slur. People assume the worst when that happens.