thats the only part that ive been wondering about, is the amount of time its going to take to do a run, 3-4 hours does seem pretty excessive, thats usually longer than most prog runs for a moderately experienced group doing vet trials, or other hard content like vBRP, or HM DLC dungeons

3-5 hours are way too long for a session, not just finding the time, but sitting through that for so long. Not to mention it will be hard coordinating with another person if it requires that much time. I think this will hurt the replayability of the content and also like someone said above, shorter runs means we get to experience more of the RNG buffing of the system, which sounds like one of the fun aspects in the archive.

(btw credit to GoAvs for going in and testing the resistances with the 2h ult)

Once you've reached an Arc, it should unlock for all future runs. In other words, when you return the next day you should have the option to port straight to the beginning of the furthest Arc you've reached. Why should I have to spend hours on easy content that I've already beaten and have no desire to ever play again?

Super agree with this. I can't power game for 3-4 hours like some of these yongsters can. But I can perform what it takes to get deep clears if there was a way it'd save my progression. Its not like vMA or vVH that saves but are also clear in sight objectives to an end and can be beaten sub 45min.

Yeah I would honestly be happy with like 2 trash rooms then a boss the amount of trash you end up fighting in arc5+ with nearly 500k hp each is such a slog especially solo

To add to this, Marauders are severely overtuned in later arcs. Marauders in arc 7 feel like they belong in arc 9 tbh, and arc 5 in arc 7. I wouldn't be surprised if, when we reach arc 8-9-10 etc, I just need my tank to run a full infinite magma shell build because its just gonna be impossible to survive without something like that. bro gets 80% of his hp chunked each light attack alone.

I think the biggest problem isn't that the progression takes long. It's that the ''fun'' part only starts 3-5 hours in. The early cycles/arcs are really boring, so having essentially only 2 wipes to try the fun stuff, after working for 4 hours to get there, its basically impossible to run this more than once a day sadly.

I would suggest the best way to overcome this without destroying the balance, is to add an unlockable upgrade (like the verses/vision upgrade ones, and extra choices) where you (if all players who start the run have the achievement) can click on the start run interactable and get a few options. ''Start run at arc 3, arc 5, arc 7'' if you have the achievement for reaching like 1-2 arcs higher than it maybe? Vision choices would be difficult to balance here though.

I think a more elegant solution would be to have an upgrade which removes, or combines trash pools/stages which you can optionally activate when starting the run. This would make it so you can do the early arcs much much faster.

endless should be endless and not so much about getting harder exponentially. progress should be saveable but not shareable, meaning if you are solo you can go where you left off, if you are the same duo, you can go where you left off.

Maybe they could add an achievement buff that lets you skip add rounds? So you can go straight from boss to boss?

Or maybe make a couple different modes. One that's only boss rounds, and one thats only add rounds?

Yeah maybe just end leaderboard progress if someone leaves (I mean I personally couldn't possibly care less about the leaderboard part anyway), but let them at least save their endless archive progress and continue from a later arc... or maybe speed up the early arcs / allow them to be skipped if one has completed them in the past?

There is no possible situation *ever* where I am going to spend 3+ hours in a row doing one activity in a video game, and there are absolutely other people like me who are unable to devote that kind of time to a game in one sitting... so the current design would seem to be limiting some portion of the playerbase to never have any opportunity to go beyond the first couple of arcs.

I hope it doesn't end up this way.

I do understand the concept of endless, but my feedback stands - that just repeating the first few arcs over and over again forever (with the limiting factor being time available in one sitting, rather than skill level) and never having time to get to more challenging arcs sounds quite uninteresting.

Edit: I think this quote from up above maybe communicates the issue better than I'm doing...

luchtt wrote: »

I think the biggest problem isn't that the progression takes long. It's that the ''fun'' part only starts 3-5 hours in. The early cycles/arcs are really boring, so having essentially only 2 wipes to try the fun stuff, after working for 4 hours to get there, its basically impossible to run this more than once a day sadly.

Reading this im thinking a Endless Archive mode where you dont compete on leaderbords and you dont earn any currency would be good for the players who think the dungeon is to slow.

I think there are alot of players newer, non veteran players etc that appreciate that Endless Archive dont get to hard to quick.

Aislinna wrote: »

The concept of an endless arena means that a player decides when they quit, if they do not die; If you don't want to play for 5 hours, don't. It's not like "if I play for 1 more hour, I'll complete it" like you would in a progressive dungeon/trial trifecta attempt. And just like other progressive attempts, you start over at the beginning same as you do in this progressive arena, getting better and faster each time as you master the mechanics of each random level, allowing you to reach harder levels.

I would agree if what people were asking for was the equivalent of, "It is annoying that my progression group has to clear Zhaj'hassa every time in Maw of Lorkhaj. We have Zhaj'hassa down pat! Can't we jump straight to the Twins fight?? That is where we are stuck!" That is being kind of whiny. For a progression guild, it does not really take very long to get to the part where the real progression is currently taking place. And once you get there, you can spend all night. Imagine if it took all night to get to the Twins. Then you only got to wipe three times to the Twins before you had to start all over?

Or another example: Endless Archive feels like, "We added a new Veteran Hard Mode of Dragonstar Arena! You have to complete Normal Dragonstar, then Veteran Dragonstar, and then you get taken to Veteran Hard Mode Dragonstar! All in one sitting! And you only get to die 3 times on Veteran Hard Mode Dragonstar. Then you have to start all over from the beginning of Normal Dragonstar! Doesn't that sound like fun?"

People like progression. But they want to spend some nominal amount of time getting back to where they are stuck, and then spending a lot of time working on the part that is challenging them. They don't want to spend hours getting back to where they were stuck, just to fight that boss and wipe a few times in the course of 5 minutes, then have to start all over again.

There is fun, engaging progression. And then there is cruel, punishing progression. Endless Archive is leaning a lot more to the latter.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, thanks for the feedback here. We'll make sure to pass this on to the Endless Archive team. Appreciate everyone's feedback regarding progression rate. And if you have more feedback on this topic, please continue to add it to this thread.

Just wanted to add my voice that the "grind" to get to the run-ending stuff is too long. A three hour run should be the run of a lifetime - not the norm.

The trash pack rounds need to be reduced between bosses, there needs to be a quest that saves your progress, or there needs to be the ability to skip to Arc 2 or 3 after you have gotten to a certain point.

Any one of these would take EA from a great concept to a great execution.

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Wow, 3-5 hours of non-savable content? What a great design choice...

Typical of this game. Give something the sounds like fun, then make it tedious.

3-5 hours of non-savable content sounds like a job not a game.