Endless Archive Progression is Too Slow

Destai

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, just wanted to follow up here. As you may have seen, in these week's patch notes, we have made some changes to Endless Archive that will hopefully help with progression. We are removing one stage from each cycle for the Endless Archive in order to increase the overall pace, especially early on. So there will be two stages per cycle instead of three and one arc will be 10 stages instead of 15. As always, please continue to pass along your feedback as you continue to play.

Full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644544/pts-patch-notes-v9-2-3

Really happy to see you guys adjusting to our feedback and letting us know! Kudos!

Braffin

Elsonso wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I take it this change is confirmation that "the intended audience" mentioned in the previous patch notes comprises high-level competitive build players, as the change involves reducing what they refer to as "trash content" but which is the only content that more casual players can actually make much progress with.

From what i got out of Finn's interview with Xynode... First Arc is not really for end game players. After that, difficulty is ramps up for the end game and competitive players.

As a non-competitve player who just wants to do the first arc as a daily and then move on with life, this change is terrific. Opinion based on patch notes, not in-game.

So, how exactly is a shorter run terrific?

Tandor

Elsonso wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I take it this change is confirmation that "the intended audience" mentioned in the previous patch notes comprises high-level competitive build players, as the change involves reducing what they refer to as "trash content" but which is the only content that more casual players can actually make much progress with.

From what i got out of Finn's interview with Xynode... First Arc is not really for end game players. After that, difficulty is ramps up for the end game and competitive players.

As a non-competitve player who just wants to do the first arc as a daily and then move on with life, this change is terrific. Opinion based on patch notes, not in-game.

No idea what that interview is, or who those names are, but for me the idea of an endless dungeon - as we were initially led to believe it would be as opposed to another arena - is to have something that can be played "endlessly" as opposed to just for a quick daily. I fully understand you approaching it that way, but I'm sure most players (and ZOS) were hoping for something more than that.

I'm disappointed that while they have listened to feedback from those who find the early content trash, they haven't given any indication that they've listened to those casual or lesser build players who find it impossible beyond the first cycle or so.

It's also disappointing that they haven't responded to the feedback from most testers about the lack of a difficulty option and save facility. Such rewards as there are seem to require many hours of continuous play which isn't going to be attractive to most players, I would think. The difficulty level (too easy for some, too hard for others), the scarcity of rewards and the poor quality of the ones there are, and the whole time sink issue leave me still struggling to understand who exactly is going to commit to this concept, other than by way of popping in and out now and then as a bit of a short-term novelty until they get bored by the failure to get anything out of it unless they commit a lot of time to it.

Elsonso

Braffin wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I take it this change is confirmation that "the intended audience" mentioned in the previous patch notes comprises high-level competitive build players, as the change involves reducing what they refer to as "trash content" but which is the only content that more casual players can actually make much progress with.

From what i got out of Finn's interview with Xynode... First Arc is not really for end game players. After that, difficulty is ramps up for the end game and competitive players.

As a non-competitve player who just wants to do the first arc as a daily and then move on with life, this change is terrific. Opinion based on patch notes, not in-game.

So, how exactly is a shorter run terrific?

Daily quests need to be short. I don't want to spend 30 to 40 minutes on them.

Braffin

Elsonso wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I take it this change is confirmation that "the intended audience" mentioned in the previous patch notes comprises high-level competitive build players, as the change involves reducing what they refer to as "trash content" but which is the only content that more casual players can actually make much progress with.

From what i got out of Finn's interview with Xynode... First Arc is not really for end game players. After that, difficulty is ramps up for the end game and competitive players.

As a non-competitve player who just wants to do the first arc as a daily and then move on with life, this change is terrific. Opinion based on patch notes, not in-game.

So, how exactly is a shorter run terrific?

Daily quests need to be short. I don't want to spend 30 to 40 minutes on them.

Yeah, not arguing against that. But they did in fact shorten time spent per arc by removing a stage. So also the daily should be done quicker.

MerguezMan

So, there is still no save in that thing ?

I' ve read many "you start over when you die or quit", and I'm fine with that. But so far, you guys only played EA on PTS server.

How will it go on live servers, lag and connection issues ? During events ?

skinnycheeks

Tandor wrote: »

I'm disappointed that while they have listened to feedback from those who find the early content trash, they haven't given any indication that they've listened to those casual or lesser build players who find it impossible beyond the first cycle or so.

I think you maybe misinterpreting the term, "trash." When people are saying they removed trash, they are saying that one of the Stages was removed from each Cycle where you only fight the basic creatures that don't drop any loot or offer anything meaningful for the run. So instead of 3 Stages then Boss, it is now 2 Stages then Boss.

We weren't saying that the early content is trash. The early content is fine. The extra trash was trash lol.

EDIT: Trash is a term often used to describe unnamed/unimportant enemies.

Jaimeh

skinnycheeks wrote: »

We weren't saying that the early content is trash. The early content is fine. The extra trash was trash lol.

EDIT: Trash is a term often used to describe unnamed/unimportant enemies.

Skinny, trash mobs are people too, they prefer to go by base pop

Tandor

skinnycheeks wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I'm disappointed that while they have listened to feedback from those who find the early content trash, they haven't given any indication that they've listened to those casual or lesser build players who find it impossible beyond the first cycle or so.

I think you maybe misinterpreting the term, "trash." When people are saying they removed trash, they are saying that one of the Stages was removed from each Cycle where you only fight the basic creatures that don't drop any loot or offer anything meaningful for the run. So instead of 3 Stages then Boss, it is now 2 Stages then Boss.

We weren't saying that the early content is trash. The early content is fine. The extra trash was trash lol.

EDIT: Trash is a term often used to describe unnamed/unimportant enemies.

My understanding is that people have been complaining about trash mobs in both senses, the basic mobs are too easy and they give no reward. In order to gain anything worthwhile they have to plough multiple hours into it, and that involves running through all of the early content, both basic mobs and the early bosses. My point was that there's no attention being given to those players who find that early content (again, both basic mobs and bosses) too tough a challenge beyond Arc 1. There needs to be a difficulty setting unless it's just intended for high level and well geared players, which would be a shame as with a few changes EA could appeal to everyone and be a lot more successful than I fear it will be. And yes, there needs to be some form of nominal reward for the basic mobs.

skinnycheeks

I think overall we agree, @Tandor. I was just saying that removing those stages doesn't hurt any of that for players struggling with the lower arcs. And putting them back certainly wouldn't help.

Tandor

skinnycheeks wrote: »

I think overall we agree, @Tandor. I was just saying that removing those stages doesn't hurt any of that for players struggling with the lower arcs. And putting them back certainly wouldn't help.

But if they're struggling, then removing some of the stages that they can do is removing some of their content, and potentially some of the reward for participating, if we agree that those stages should give some sort of reward however nominal.

Necrotech_Master

the trash mob stages they removed are called so because there is no reward for them, you get rewards from boss stages and arc completion, and some of the side areas, but not the actual filler mobs between all of that

Elsonso

.

Tandor wrote: »

skinnycheeks wrote: »

I think overall we agree, @Tandor. I was just saying that removing those stages doesn't hurt any of that for players struggling with the lower arcs. And putting them back certainly wouldn't help.

But if they're struggling, then removing some of the stages that they can do is removing some of their content, and potentially some of the reward for participating, if we agree that those stages should give some sort of reward however nominal.

I would much rather have the same number of mobs, but fewer stages, than the same number of mobs and the old number of stages. They didn't do that, at least not that I have heard, but what they did was better than not removing the stages.

As for rewards... I get XP and buffs and the random side area to explore the way it is. It isn't like I am starving for rewarding things. Just give me better rewards at the end of the cycle and Arc and I won't care about stage rewards.

sarahthes

Tandor wrote: »

skinnycheeks wrote: »

I think overall we agree, @Tandor. I was just saying that removing those stages doesn't hurt any of that for players struggling with the lower arcs. And putting them back certainly wouldn't help.

But if they're struggling, then removing some of the stages that they can do is removing some of their content, and potentially some of the reward for participating, if we agree that those stages should give some sort of reward however nominal.

The point is there's no reward for the stages they removed anyway. They were pointless grind for the sake of grind.

Tandor

sarahthes wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

skinnycheeks wrote: »

I think overall we agree, @Tandor. I was just saying that removing those stages doesn't hurt any of that for players struggling with the lower arcs. And putting them back certainly wouldn't help.

But if they're struggling, then removing some of the stages that they can do is removing some of their content, and potentially some of the reward for participating, if we agree that those stages should give some sort of reward however nominal.

The point is there's no reward for the stages they removed anyway. They were pointless grind for the sake of grind.

Which is precisely why I said "those stages should give some sort of reward however nominal".

Varana

But they didn't. Certainly it would've been better if they gave the trash waves some tangible reward (or any at all), but they decided against it. In light of that, removing one of the stages is at least contributing something to enhancing the experience, even if not perfect.

RaptorRodeoGod

The removal of add stages increases the frequency of attaining long term buffs, which is cool