Why have so many veteran players left the game recently?

RicAlmighty · August 2023

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

BG3...

Just wait till Starfield launches...

Interesting to see what impact that has.

Give the man an cigar.
Not picked it up myself, probably good but don't see why hobble an video game with AD&D rules.

It doesn't have D&D rules - it has D&D lore (specifically, the Forgotten Realms). Big difference.

It does, in fact, have D&D rules. Fifth Edition to be exact. You literally roll dice in the game and everything from initiative to damage throws are in the game. It is as close as you can get to tabletop D&D in a video game. On top of all that, it's fantastic to play, looks great, has absolutely stellar voice acting (best I've heard in a game since RDR2).

Hurbster · August 2023

Personally, it's all the big releases coming out. Currently playing BG3, then Starfield and Phantom Liberty are coming out in a few weeks. Nothing else is going to get a look in until at least Xmas.

The 'meh' nature of the game (IMO) right now just makes it easier to run the sub down and leave ESO to one side.

boi_anachronism_ · August 2023

ElderSmitter88 wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

Recently there are fewer and fewer old players in the dungeon.
And recently, fewer and fewer old players from our guild are online.
What is the reason for this?

I can only speak for myself of course but...
I recently left my last prog group and basically decided to quit raiding for the time being. The reasons are:
* general burn out
* change fatigue
* bored of content (Sanity's Edge is just a very bad raid in my opinion)
* almost all my "good" raid groups are gone

I might come back to serious raiding at some point in the future, but for now, I stick to doing my dailies and that's it.

I love ESO play Everyday! I can Tank or DPS with the best of them. Trials or Vet Dungeons. Buuuuuuuuuuuut!!! I agree with you 100% i actually Despise doing Trials and find no enjoyment out of them. The Rewards for me personally are not worth it at all.

I do not agree with folks that say Vet Trials should be accessible to everyone. I think honestly ZOS has made it so easy to Farm them and the Sets are not even Special. I am sorry but my DPS can Crush Rele (A kinda old Trial Set) Which is Single Target anyways. One of my Favorite Fun Sets is Alksoh it is way better than given credit for as it helps the entire group tons BUT...................... HAS NO PERFECT Bonus!.. I personally think if ZOS made VET Trials Even Harder and the Gear even Stronger it would bring back So many older groups and Push people harder. Running Normal trials are BLAH!!! and should not Reward People with Gear 1 line less than Vet trials. I will run Vet Dungeons all day as i find them to be tons of Fun! Especially Tanking.

I mean rele is used less then you might think for actual content in high level groups because keeping stacks can be inconsistent in some fights. there is actually a pretty good variety. Tzog is really big, azureblight, flame blossom situationally on dks, elemental catalyst, master architect (trial), war machine (trial), zens, alkosh(trial) is still used very consistently but slightly less since arc is giving minor courage so mt may go crimson oath instead. Bahsei(trial)and sax(trial) are still must have sets. As is coral riptide, pillagers and pearlescent all trial sets. Yolo, also a trial set still consistently used. Depending on content whorl, burning spell weave, ay (trial). and a few other sets, harpooner as well for certain things. So yeah vet trial sets are still heavily used in hard content. Alkosh is definitely not slept on. I would say SE sets largely arent as strong. Ansuul is seeing use though. As far as my tri progs, we use a ton of trial sets depending on content. So im not sure some of this is accurate.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 2023

Adernath wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Trobaka wrote: »

Trancejet wrote: »

Recently there are fewer and fewer old players in the dungeon.
And recently, fewer and fewer old players from our guild are online.
What is the reason for this?

It's not "recently", this has been going on for years.

This game does NOT try to make players stay. It doesn't try to keep players happy. It gets new players to spend as much money as possible, and makes them leave after realizing some facts that i don't know how to tell you without violating the "terms of service" and "code of conduct" of this forum.

ESO had the potential to be one of the best video games ever, but because of reasons we are not allowed to discuss here, it will never be more than it is right now.

I'll cite a reason: how about the fact that one of the most prominent devs openly mocked a large portion of the playerbase, not once, but twice?

Calling players whiners because they're bringing up genuine, valid concerns is a good way to annihilate the relationship with said players.

Can you post the link to that?

A quick Google would find it pretty easily. Don't want to link lest they zap me for "bashing".

Blood_again · August 2023

Soarora wrote: »

Lately DPS queues for dungeons are faster, guild chats are emptier, for a while before, even giant trial discords didn't have runs because the rosters weren't filling. The roster situation seems a bit better than it was the months following U35, but it comes and goes and the game does not seem as populated as it was before.

Honestly, I think that personal statistics can't represent the real data. Especially under themed post.
But well I know that it affects much on personal feeling of the game state, so it really matters on emotional level.
Let's just compare ours.

For me:

Random normal queue for dps went very fast for the latest 3-4 weeks. Understandable. Exp is higly demanded for both newcomers and high cp alts. Many fake roles.
Nonvet pledges, tried just a few times to help people, so minor stats. Queue took 3-10 minutes for a pair. One time it took 35+ minutes - bugged group, as we figured out
Vet pledges, dps queue is a bit longer than usual. Less fakes. Plus many newcomers come for their first vet.
Vet non-pledge. Way faster than before. 10 minutes vs 40+ I had this Spring. All are young dungeoneers 160-300 CP or veterans who support their young friends. Looks like they work on their builds, get monster hats etc.
Pug trials of all kind. Dead season from egs giveaway. Last week gathered three runs to normals for new guildmates - a bit slow, but not dead really. Many people says in PM that it is their first time or they have low dmg. The usual screen for newcomers wave. BUT 2 last days it was just a storm in Craglorn. Vets, normals, mostly DLC - just a shouting crowd. I don't know what happened. Maybe returned from vacations?

So as you can see in my stats, dungeons are OK. Some aspects even better than a few months before.
Trials was a bit low, but I checked my trial friends - they did their alts, Zenitar fest, questing. I take it more like a coincidense + Summer.
Anyway, nothing about people leaving the game. Actually the opposite, a few friends of mine returned this week.

ProudMary · August 2023

Update 35 happened to kill the end game PvE community, and ZOS has killed the PvP community by reducing pop caps to about 80/faction and group sizes to only 12 players, among other things primary the result of neglecting the PvP community. I know the "Waa waa waa" video drove many of the last PvP players over the edge for sure.

If you want more detail google "nefas U35" and watch his videos. And anyone who's into PvP since 2015 or so will give you a laundry list of deleterious changes ZOS has made to the PvP experience.

CrashTest · August 2023

Constant changes, game breaking bugs, ban waves that hit the innocent, and so many other things like this that just make people quit.

Also I'm seeing a lot of former ESO raiders playing other games like BG3 and D4.

SilverBride · August 2023

Players come and go. I don't see any more leaving now than the normal fluctuation.

Turtle_Bot · August 2023

Cast_El wrote: »

I think some decisions made by the team were bad, worst part is the communication around thoses decisions.

For exemple : nobody wanted U35 changes (longer duration dot, massive nerf for some classes, some templar thread about this got more than 11k views, introducing mara' balm). They didn't say anything about the templar nerf and animation change.
For mara it took almost a year to be adjusted.

For PvP: meta is boring because of the bad meta going on for months: you're not killed by high skilled player but by random playing cheesy set... And undeath passive need to be nerfed

Agree with this, I had 2 threads on sorc issues with over 7k and 6k views each respectively (13k views total from just those 2 threads), sorc still has the exact same issues which were never actually addressed let alone fixed and all we got in response was "the devs think the class is fine".

Constant forcing the class into pets only for PvE (completely against the original design of the class as an arcane mage/battle mage with optional daedric pets btw) and forcing it into proc stacking for PvP has all but deleted it as an actual class from the game, but the devs still seem to think its fine and the forums are still full of people crying about 'procsorcs' as if its the class and not the overpowered proc sets carrying the class that is the issue...

KlauthWarthog · August 2023

You can only go into the Wild Combat Changes ride so many times before it starts to feel obtuse, and you leave the park.

dcrush · August 2023

For me it’s a lot of things, but probably the main reason is that I can’t continue doing the zone quests on my main character because I completed the “kill 20 arcanists” quest in Cyro. It’s been about two months for me and, allegedly, it will be fixed with U39 but by that time I might have lost interest. When an actual game-breaking bug isn’t even acknowledged until a month after it’s first reported and even then no effort is made to communicate to players that a certain quest should be abandoned to prevent breaking your game… that’s very demotivating.

And of course that’s on top of all the other issues like very poor communication (or none at all) such as the crown crate gifting issues, people getting banned first and investigated later, Cyrodiil leaderboard issues during a pvp event, login issues during another event, ZoZ event rewards being gutted vs last year…

Basically, I’m starting to believe the “doomsayers” who say the game is moving to maintenance mode.

Ragnarok0130 · August 2023

Reverb wrote: »

How recently are you talking. If it’s over the last year, then U35 was a big catalyst. Not everyone who said they’d quit the game or raiding over that patch actually followed through, but a lot did. Enough that it had a notable impact on the number of end game players. Those who still play at that level are less likely to be recruiting and training for prog teams because they’re burned out on losing players and rebuilding after every Ill-conceived combat balance patch.

Indeed, the constant roster prog since U35 is one of the largest reasons for people (of the people who didn't outright quit from U35 and its follow on effects) pulling back that I run with. Groups turtled up like the content creators predicted as a result of U35 and the associated exodus of players. Throw in the insane yo-yo balancing patches from the combat team since then and people get fed up and take breaks.

ElderSmitter · August 2023

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ElderSmitter88 wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

Recently there are fewer and fewer old players in the dungeon.
And recently, fewer and fewer old players from our guild are online.
What is the reason for this?

I can only speak for myself of course but...
I recently left my last prog group and basically decided to quit raiding for the time being. The reasons are:
* general burn out
* change fatigue
* bored of content (Sanity's Edge is just a very bad raid in my opinion)
* almost all my "good" raid groups are gone

I might come back to serious raiding at some point in the future, but for now, I stick to doing my dailies and that's it.

I love ESO play Everyday! I can Tank or DPS with the best of them. Trials or Vet Dungeons. Buuuuuuuuuuuut!!! I agree with you 100% i actually Despise doing Trials and find no enjoyment out of them. The Rewards for me personally are not worth it at all.

I do not agree with folks that say Vet Trials should be accessible to everyone. I think honestly ZOS has made it so easy to Farm them and the Sets are not even Special. I am sorry but my DPS can Crush Rele (A kinda old Trial Set) Which is Single Target anyways. One of my Favorite Fun Sets is Alksoh it is way better than given credit for as it helps the entire group tons BUT...................... HAS NO PERFECT Bonus!.. I personally think if ZOS made VET Trials Even Harder and the Gear even Stronger it would bring back So many older groups and Push people harder. Running Normal trials are BLAH!!! and should not Reward People with Gear 1 line less than Vet trials. I will run Vet Dungeons all day as i find them to be tons of Fun! Especially Tanking.

I mean rele is used less then you might think for actual content in high level groups because keeping stacks can be inconsistent in some fights. there is actually a pretty good variety. Tzog is really big, azureblight, flame blossom situationally on dks, elemental catalyst, master architect (trial), war machine (trial), zens, alkosh(trial) is still used very consistently but slightly less since arc is giving minor courage so mt may go crimson oath instead. Bahsei(trial)and sax(trial) are still must have sets. As is coral riptide, pillagers and pearlescent all trial sets. Yolo, also a trial set still consistently used. Depending on content whorl, burning spell weave, ay (trial). and a few other sets, harpooner as well for certain things. So yeah vet trial sets are still heavily used in hard content. Alkosh is definitely not slept on. I would say SE sets largely arent as strong. Ansuul is seeing use though. As far as my tri progs, we use a ton of trial sets depending on content. So im not sure some of this is accurate.

I do not think you understood my point. What i was saying is Vet Trials need to be Harder and more rewarding to bring back Older Groups. Of course, you're using a Mirage of sets because that is what is offered but to keep the game fresh and trial groups active the content and rewards imo need to be much harder and rewarding. Anyone literally can run Normal and farm sets with 1 line less and some sets like Alksoh do not even offer a Perfected version is what i am saying. I know all the sets. A Few Mounts and titles is not enough imo to keep Older Groups around. I truly believe certain things should not be attainable for everyone that is part of an MMO and a part of life.

boi_anachronism_ · August 2023

ElderSmitter88 wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ElderSmitter88 wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

Recently there are fewer and fewer old players in the dungeon.
And recently, fewer and fewer old players from our guild are online.
What is the reason for this?

I can only speak for myself of course but...
I recently left my last prog group and basically decided to quit raiding for the time being. The reasons are:
* general burn out
* change fatigue
* bored of content (Sanity's Edge is just a very bad raid in my opinion)
* almost all my "good" raid groups are gone

I might come back to serious raiding at some point in the future, but for now, I stick to doing my dailies and that's it.

I love ESO play Everyday! I can Tank or DPS with the best of them. Trials or Vet Dungeons. Buuuuuuuuuuuut!!! I agree with you 100% i actually Despise doing Trials and find no enjoyment out of them. The Rewards for me personally are not worth it at all.

I do not agree with folks that say Vet Trials should be accessible to everyone. I think honestly ZOS has made it so easy to Farm them and the Sets are not even Special. I am sorry but my DPS can Crush Rele (A kinda old Trial Set) Which is Single Target anyways. One of my Favorite Fun Sets is Alksoh it is way better than given credit for as it helps the entire group tons BUT...................... HAS NO PERFECT Bonus!.. I personally think if ZOS made VET Trials Even Harder and the Gear even Stronger it would bring back So many older groups and Push people harder. Running Normal trials are BLAH!!! and should not Reward People with Gear 1 line less than Vet trials. I will run Vet Dungeons all day as i find them to be tons of Fun! Especially Tanking.

I mean rele is used less then you might think for actual content in high level groups because keeping stacks can be inconsistent in some fights. there is actually a pretty good variety. Tzog is really big, azureblight, flame blossom situationally on dks, elemental catalyst, master architect (trial), war machine (trial), zens, alkosh(trial) is still used very consistently but slightly less since arc is giving minor courage so mt may go crimson oath instead. Bahsei(trial)and sax(trial) are still must have sets. As is coral riptide, pillagers and pearlescent all trial sets. Yolo, also a trial set still consistently used. Depending on content whorl, burning spell weave, ay (trial). and a few other sets, harpooner as well for certain things. So yeah vet trial sets are still heavily used in hard content. Alkosh is definitely not slept on. I would say SE sets largely arent as strong. Ansuul is seeing use though. As far as my tri progs, we use a ton of trial sets depending on content. So im not sure some of this is accurate.

I do not think you understood my point. What i was saying is Vet Trials need to be Harder and more rewarding to bring back Older Groups. Of course, you're using a Mirage of sets because that is what is offered but to keep the game fresh and trial groups active the content and rewards imo need to be much harder and rewarding. Anyone literally can run Normal and farm sets with 1 line less and some sets like Alksoh do not even offer a Perfected version is what i am saying. I know all the sets. A Few Mounts and titles is not enough imo to keep Older Groups around. I truly believe certain things should not be attainable for everyone that is part of an MMO and a part of life.

And when that happens people complain. A lot of them. They feel gated out of content. I think end game should be a question of skill and working hard but the fact is that end game is a small community because people dont want to work for it. I have overlapping people in every single one of my guilds. Most players are casual and that is a fact. A select few of us love the really hard stuff. Zos isnt going to cater to that and drive the majority of its base away. Its unfortunate because yes, id love to see more and harder content. Gimme some more planesbreaker level stuff 100%, rewards are nice but they dont really matter to me. Its about the team achievement and enjoying the time playing the content. Something else to meantion- sure they can get the sets but do they know how to use them? Have you every seen a 40k dps use bahsei? Or coral and it turn out well? Kinras, tzog? I could go on. Those sets are there for hardcore players. Sets help your damage (potentially), not your skill. I aint doing gh or ttt for rewards. Im doing it because i enjoy it.if they want to add an exteme hm though im all about it.

hrothbern · August 2023

Are we here in this thread not a tad too much busy with navel-gazing on ESO this and that ?

BG3 is just released and a lot of older players being raised with BG1 & 2 will for sure spend time on BG3 after the many years long awaited arrival.
Many new (and younger generation) RPG players as well.

petanko · August 2023

I personally considered a ragequit after the epic invasion. 45+min queues are bad for morale.

In general, there is nothing to do. During the past half year, I logged on mostly to keep up sales and chat with friends, with the minor 2-week exception of Necrom. Nothing bad with ESO specifically, it's the doom of any MMO.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · August 2023

Yeah, I feel ya,

I still drop in and Grind, do my mount training and some quests, but yup, I'm playing BG3 on PC for a little bit, I'm not leaving but I am taking a bit of a break compared to last couple years.

I know alot have people who have quit/left over the life of this game. PvP has been getting Tankier and Tankier, you need like 2-3 people to kill one person now. I used to go in and slaughter people, nope cannot do that anymore. ESO keeps changing game mechanic's too, no more ranged stun, abilities constantly getting changed, potions that can see people who are sneaking from like 40 meters out in Cyrodiil.

And don't get me started on PvE...

The game is catered to new people not veterans..

It get's to be a pain in the booty and redonkulas at times. And I just tried to log in right NOW and NOPE couldn't get in, they are having a issue...

OK back to BG3 then,

Hey ESO......Fix your Stuff.

PS- I love the game but you better start bringing it ESO...

licenturion · August 2023

(personal opinion)

This is one of the biggest seasons in gaming the past decade.

A lot of cool (RPG) games are coming out or did release already so people are probably playing those. Diablo 4 was huge recently and so is Baldurs Gate 3. Starfield is just around the corner. And a new AC, Spiderman, Skylines etc

I know those are different genres. But I know from experience that for a lot of people I know that play ESO casually that ESO is more an 'in between game' to return to when nothing else is out.

Also my interest dropped a lot this expansion because there is no Q4 story and dungeons coming.

joergino · August 2023

petanko wrote: »

I personally considered a ragequit after the epic invasion. 45+min queues are bad for morale.
.

The queues had nothing to do with Epic. There was a problem at ZOS' end.

markulrich1966 · August 2023

gryphon bosses not spawning since a week on xbox NA, an issue reported first 4 years ago.
Instead of fixing such bugs, they waste resources in adding new nerfs, like currently removing AOE damage from lightning staves in the "big bugfix release".

I still have not yet finished re-specing my alts on my main account after the U35 nerfs, so play that account far less.
Xbox NA sometimes starts to resemble the plain dead EU server, as I have to wait an hour for other players to help fighting worldbosses.

So I meanwhile just play some easy content on my newer second account, and rest of the time Fallout 76.
BG3 is not yet released on xbox, but I look forward it. Starfield looks pretty interesting, too. I really hope for alternatives to this bugged nerf-mess ESO currently is.

LikiLoki · August 2023

I've been playing this game for 5 years. Objectively: the game is not getting worse, there are small improvements. However, veterans of the game feel tired of not being offered anything new. They are held only by nostalgia. These novelties are in new games, so we are leaving the morally old game to meet the fresh wind.

endgamesmug · August 2023

I just login do writs, mount training on other accounts, prepping another new account for the next xp event for writs. Theres nothing for me to do combatwise, so may aswell do the maintenance stuff in the meantime.

petanko · August 2023

joergino wrote: »

The queues had nothing to do with Epic. There was a problem at ZOS' end.

Yeah, many new players -> login server overload -> queues. But I just liked how "epic invasion" sounds. :>

code65536 · August 2023

Trancejet wrote: »

The Steam database shows the number of players does not increase but decreases after Epic Free event

Why is anyone looking at Steam when talking about players being added on a rival platform that are guaranteed to not be counted on Steam?

Caligamy_ESO · August 2023

RicAlmighty wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

BG3...

Just wait till Starfield launches...

Interesting to see what impact that has.

Give the man an cigar.
Not picked it up myself, probably good but don't see why hobble an video game with AD&D rules.

It doesn't have D&D rules - it has D&D lore (specifically, the Forgotten Realms). Big difference.

It does, in fact, have D&D rules. Fifth Edition to be exact. You literally roll dice in the game and everything from initiative to damage throws are in the game. It is as close as you can get to tabletop D&D in a video game. On top of all that, it's fantastic to play, looks great, has absolutely stellar voice acting (best I've heard in a game since RDR2).

Not to mention the music scoring is phenomenal, I would not be surprised in the least to see some awards there, and the storytelling is compelling and interesting. I'll admit I have skipped my fair share of cutscenes and conversations in games because I just was not all that interested but in BG3 I find myself listening to every little bit.

It doesn't make you feel like a dullard who has to be reminded every 5 seconds who you are, where you are, who you're talking to, etc.. On the other hand I pretty much stopped playing anything in Necrom shortly after having pages of conversation where I had to be told what a daedric prince was for the zillionth time. If I tried to stitch together ESO's storylines into a cohesive manner I would probably end up rambling about the butterflies in Uncle Sheo's house.

Honestly it's no wonder why Lawrence Schick left ESO and almost immediately went to work over there.

Sync01 · August 2023

A lot of things has been mentioned here already, such as other games being released etc.

The one thing that I think really impacts veteran players leaving during/after events is how unstable the servers are. It usually gets worse during events and you end up doing trials that are buggy, with people disconnecting at random times, replacements for those who couldn't log in or you just cancel when half your team or more can't log in. I can imagine that it's the same for any team regardless if it's trials, dungeons or pvp.

Combine that with things like combat being made easier and it's just less and less rewarding for veteran players to play the game. It's not so much about if the game is enjoyable or not anymore but rather if it's enjoyable enough for you to continue playing with all the issues.

Warhawke_80 · August 2023

I dunno... from what I've noticed, the major towns on the NA servers tend to get quite lively, especially during the evenings and weekends. If by "Veteran," the original poster is referring to the skilled Raiders and dedicated PVP players, my understanding is that they've never constituted a massive portion of the game's player base. Interestingly, it seems that MMO developers often lean more towards catering to these endgame players.

I remember a conversation with a friend who used to work at Blizzard, and they mentioned something intriguing. Apparently, only about 5% of the players ever reach the endgame content, yet a staggering 90% of the development efforts are focused there. It's a bit counterintuitive, in my opinion.

I think that It's worth considering that the Dungeons/Battlegrounds /Trials might not always be jumping with activity, but the game could still maintain a vibrant and healthy population. I know this viewpoint might ruffle a few feathers, but it's an honest observation.

When it comes down to it, the destiny of this game won't be solely determined by the Veteran players. There's a certain anticipation for a mass exodus when Starfield finally arrives, but personally, having had the chance to play it, I'm not entirely convinced it will satisfy the cravings of Fallout and Skyrim enthusiasts. Besides, most individuals aren't sticking with ESO because they're yearning for more Skyrim/Fallout experiences. They genuinely enjoy the game, warts and all.

Just my two cents.

dcam86b14_ESO · August 2023

Why are we still using steam numbers? Most of the people I know play direct from ZOS launcher.

DUTCH_REAPER · August 2023

Unfortunately you can’t just go off of STEAM’s information as almost everyone I play with uses the games client from ZOS not from STEAM. My group, players since Beta, recently returned actually after a year of being away from the game.

majulook · August 2023

Maybe they have not left, maybe its just they cannot log in.