Why have so many veteran players left the game recently?

endgamesmug

Im still hanging around organizing some things for myself wealth growing ingame, i have zero interest in raiding so my game is effectively over for now

markulrich1966

I play since 5 years, though less meanwhile as mentioned before.
Just now, I soloed Old Deathwart, the frog WB in Blackwood. On a templar alt that was quite easy to play before U35.

I could finish the frog, but my wrist has started to hurt. I should not do this at the age of 57.
I usually play non-Oakensoul HA builds, and so can deal with such bosses without a hurting wrist, I just have not re-speced the templar yet (1 of 72 alts).
U39 will remove AOE damage from lightning staves.Then I will have to replace that like I just did with my templar, using skills like strikes. To be honest: I am not willing to destroy my health for such a reason, so this likely will be the point where I will switch to other games completely.
This trend is not new. E.g. sorcerers had a strong AOE, crystal blast. Was removed completely, so without AOE from a staff they rely on pulsar (staff skill), that does far less damage and has higher cost than the former crystal blast. Another unhealthy replacement causing physical pain for older players.

Zastrix

SilverBride wrote: »

Zastrix wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Where is the proof that a lot of veteran players left the game?

Not being able to fill pugs for trials, not being able to fill pugs for dungeons, barely being able to fill rosters for vet guild runs, root having issue with filling roster for running trials?

I've personally taken a pause off of ESO because of the anti-QoL changes, additional nerfs to nightblades in PvE whilst being the weakest class and DEFINITELY the aggressive gambling requirement in the stores.

I am actively playing and I queue for pugs almost every day. I have had no issue finding groups. And maybe guilds lost members to other trial groups, but that does not mean these players quit playing.

Are you queueing for normal or veteran pugs? For the past few days I couldn't get a vDSR group at all. Always 10/12 people. Most of the people I know and played with pre u35 quit between u35 and now because of all the sledgehammer changes and changes made in such a way like it had the intent to make the game anti-fun. I know it's not the actual intent... probably... but the changes were made in such a way to seem so.

This is also from EU PoV, not sure if it's the same for the NA server.

SilverBride wrote: »

And there is no aggressive gambling requirement for ESO. I do not ever buy crates and I still play quite fine.

except everything which looks good is in a lootbox. You want a mount? Lootbox. You want an outfit? Lootbox (or pay 200 euros for 18 lootboxes and get the costume). You want a new animation? Lootbox. You want a new hat? Lootbox. You want cool furnishing? Lootbox (except for the handul which aren't). You want a skin? Lootbox. You want a non-standard pet (which isn't a standard dog/cat/guar)? Lootbox.

It's not a requirement to buy those lootboxes but you're not going to get anything good unless you gamble.

NVNNN2

Criminally low amount of new content
Server stability is shamefully bad
99% of meaningful and interesting rewards are locked behind an RMT wall
Moderation team humors every whining *** who felt bad after hearing a few well-deserved insults with actual game time suspension instead of placing social restrictions
Server stability is shamefully bad
New players have no idea what to do. The game does not explain or teach new players anything regarding builds, setups, how to be useful, etc. In search of this enlightenment most new players join social guilds where they are happily told not to worry about the meta, enjoy the game the way they want to, and by the time they start tackling veteran content or consider hard modes, they are useless, disregarded by groups who look for actual pve players
There is no PvP in teso. Some may think otherwise, but the lack of rating system with actual numbers you can share with other people makes this whole cyrodil imperial city crap just a mindless resource grind for the sake of earning a few extra gold with no meaningful gameplay-related reward system
Server stability is shamefully bad
Thanks for the arcanist, but Templar or dk haven’t had any actual new skills since the release. Changes don’t count, really
Why isn’t there a separate server for those who don’t speak English?

Lady_Sleepless

I'm an old player, been playing since beta. At this point I'm taking a break to play Baldur's Gate 3 and only log in for my prog group trials. There isn't much else for me in ESO right now.

Amottica

Trancejet wrote: »

Recently there are fewer and fewer old players in the dungeon.
And recently, fewer and fewer old players from our guild are online.
What is the reason for this?
https://steamdb.info/app/306130/charts/

The Steam database shows the number of players does not increase but decreases after Epic Free event and the following Free ESO Plus member event.
Although Steam is just one of the platform for ESO, it might be still the reference value.

This screenshot of the steam charts is not how a business or financial analyst would look the steam chart data. In fact. all that SS shows is a trend of two increases of players followed by a decrease and one would appropriately surmise that it will be followed by an increase.

Essentially, it shows nothing more than fluctuations between weeks that are very consistent between the two weeks.

If one wants to look at a short-term trend, it is best to look at the current "last 30 days" ( which is 2/3 august) and compare it to the previous month. Let us see what that shows us.

Month Avg. Players Gain % Gain Peak Players
Last 30 Days 15,422.5 -54.8 -0.35% 24,231
July 2023 15,477.3 +149.8 +0.98% 24,231

Wow, peak players are equal and average players dropped by a little more than 1/2 of 1% which seems close to being a rounding error.

Even then, none of this information says anything about changes in the veteran player population.

Seasoned business analysts mostly compare a month to the same month the year before. That accounts for seasonal fluctuations, since it is common to see customer, counts revenue to change throughout the year.

So let us look at that information. We will exclude March 2020 to March 2022 to eliminate the major fluctuation COVID had on the game. To avoid cherry picking I will use July since that is the last full month we have Steam data for.

Month Avg. Players Peak Players
July 2023 15,477.3 24,231
July 2022 16,162.0 27,980
July 2019 14,606.2 24,568
July 2018 13,578.2 23,384
July 2017 8,378.7 14,351

This is interesting. It shows consistent growth over the years. The last two years do show a slight drop going from July 2022 to July 2023. That would be concerning based on the limited data available.

However, I still fail to see how OP sees anything in the Steam charts that reflects on Veteran players as that is the premise of the thread.

SilverBride

Zastrix wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

And there is no aggressive gambling requirement for ESO. I do not ever buy crates and I still play quite fine.

except everything which looks good is in a lootbox. You want a mount? Lootbox. You want an outfit? Lootbox (or pay 200 euros for 18 lootboxes and get the costume). You want a new animation? Lootbox. You want a new hat? Lootbox. You want cool furnishing? Lootbox (except for the handul which aren't). You want a skin? Lootbox. You want a non-standard pet (which isn't a standard dog/cat/guar)? Lootbox.

I have ZERO interest in mounts, animations, hats, skins, pets. I do like costumes but only get the ones I can get with seals. And I am big into housing but will not gamble to get a furnishing.

Jierdanit

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I would imagine that most in this thread (like I) were responding from our own perspectives and what we see in our own guild / friend groups.

While I can't definitively say that "veteran players are leaving", I can definitively say that the veteran players among my friends and guilds have left or substantially reduced their playtime, primarily for the reasons I listed earlier in this thread. And the overall perception among these groups is that the game population is currently down, based on rapidly falling sales and lack of players showing up for events / difficulty filling trial rosters / high numbers of players logging in less than once a week / fewer paying guild dues / fewer guild apps, etc.

And at least for me, that's really that's all I intended to say, I certainly won't claim that I have some deeper insight into the overall population of the game that would rise to the level of proof.

*EDIT: I should also add that I'm on PC/NA, as there could be differences between the servers.

I am noticing exactly the same. My Friends List used to have lots of people online everyday now im lucky to get like 5 people online over the course of a day and most people are then only logging in for a short time without really doing a lot ingame.
A lot of the people i know either completely quit playing ESO or are maybe logging in like once or twice a month to see how the game is doing.
From what i can tell most of the people I am still playing with have a very similar experience regarding this too.

So no I cant definitively say that there are less veteran players in the game now, but at least from what i can personally tell the amount of veteran players has gotten significantly smaller.
Lots of players who have been playing for years, some even since launch are either leaving the game for good or taking long breaks over about the last year, at least within the people i used to play with.

Rishikesa108

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I can't speak for everyone, but dissatisfaction with the direction of the game moving forward, the constant yo-yo nerfs and combat changes, the over correction of sets and skills based on niche uses in both PVE and PVP, and the ramping up of difficulty in new content while hamstringing the ability of the player to deal enough damage to compete when playing solo all seem to be leading causes.

I won't even get into the crown store and the predatory pricing practices born from it.

People walk away when the game they are investing into is no longer worth that investment.

Totally agree

svendf

SilverBride wrote: »

Zastrix wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

And there is no aggressive gambling requirement for ESO. I do not ever buy crates and I still play quite fine.

except everything which looks good is in a lootbox. You want a mount? Lootbox. You want an outfit? Lootbox (or pay 200 euros for 18 lootboxes and get the costume). You want a new animation? Lootbox. You want a new hat? Lootbox. You want cool furnishing? Lootbox (except for the handul which aren't). You want a skin? Lootbox. You want a non-standard pet (which isn't a standard dog/cat/guar)? Lootbox.

I have ZERO interest in mounts, animations, hats, skins, pets. I do like costumes but only get the ones I can get with seals. And I am big into housing but will not gamble to get a furnishing.

Im jealous. I have spend so much during the almost 18k hours I have in this game - crowns and Eso+.

I wish I didn´t - my own fault. Houses for my alts, mounts, costumes, furnishing and more.

I vent for another Mmo and it was refreshing. It did put Eso into a more clear perspective - I was gone for a year. I planed for a little brake from the other Mmo after all the content I have been through - I was tired.

I came back to Eso mainly because of two reasons.

1. I was told Eso have changed. Soon to discover it really wasn´t the case for me.
2. All the investment done over the years

I never planed to get into Eso again or coming back. If it haven´t been for all the investment done - Eso would have been history by now.

I still believe in a happy endning. You managed to stay away from the "trap". Lucky you Silverbride

OtarTheMad

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Trobaka wrote: »

Trancejet wrote: »

Recently there are fewer and fewer old players in the dungeon.
And recently, fewer and fewer old players from our guild are online.
What is the reason for this?

It's not "recently", this has been going on for years.

This game does NOT try to make players stay. It doesn't try to keep players happy. It gets new players to spend as much money as possible, and makes them leave after realizing some facts that i don't know how to tell you without violating the "terms of service" and "code of conduct" of this forum.

ESO had the potential to be one of the best video games ever, but because of reasons we are not allowed to discuss here, it will never be more than it is right now.

I'll cite a reason: how about the fact that one of the most prominent devs openly mocked a large portion of the playerbase, not once, but twice?

Calling players whiners because they're bringing up genuine, valid concerns is a good way to annihilate the relationship with said players.

It wasn't that dev's view, though: he'd stated many times that his wife's views were her own, and it was clear he didn't always agree with her opinions. I feel like she was speaking from the position of a wife who watches her husband cop crap regularly about things that are beyond his control. She had spoken several times about this- speaking from the perspective of someone who'd experienced similar things from other games.

As someone who regularly watched the stream, I saw the process whereby I feel like Rich started out super candid and open about any topic broached, and slowly had to become more careful about what he said, because more people learned 2nd hand about the stream and thought it would be appropriate to jump in and just start drilling him for hating PvP or the endgame community, with loaded or disingenuous questions. He got defensive. As did the community around him. People were literally celebrating Rich's wife's filter-lacking tell-it-like-it-is attitude.

Does that make it cool? Probably not, but I think the accusations need more context. People tend to just swallow it wholesale without critical thinking or relevant context.

I think that situation got blown up more than it should have. I was watching that stream and the user who asked the question was saying LOL and all that stuff to her response, a lot of people in the stream were.

Also, I agree, I've seen some people say some nasty stuff to ZOS whether that was in streams or on Twitter or here. A lot of it just going a little too far for a video game. Anyone would eventually get defensive.

OtarTheMad

As for why Steam charts show a decline I would say it's a variety of reasons. Silence by ZOS on certain issues, communication issues getting worse, even though it wasn't on PC the weird mass bans didn't help, U39 doesn't have any real content just a ton of fixes/adjustments, other games coming out and so many other things.

Silaf

Catering so much to new players is a good short time solution but a bad long time one.

I receltly reached 3000 cp witout ever doing any skyreach or black rose grind and this took me 10 years. Did i get an akivement or something for it? No sadly nothing.

Vertical progression is inexistent. As an old player all you are left to do is amass gold to purchase furnishing schematics and grind the trials to collect weapons.


Some attention to old players instead of trying to squeeze as much crowns as possible out of new players would do a lot.

SeaGtGruff

NVNNN2 wrote: »

There is no PvP in teso.

I'm curious to know what your definition of "PvP" is.

I_killed_Vivec

markulrich1966 wrote: »

I play since 5 years, though less meanwhile as mentioned before.
Just now, I soloed Old Deathwart, the frog WB in Blackwood. On a templar alt that was quite easy to play before U35.

I could finish the frog, but my wrist has started to hurt. I should not do this at the age of 57.
I usually play non-Oakensoul HA builds, and so can deal with such bosses without a hurting wrist, I just have not re-speced the templar yet (1 of 72 alts).
U39 will remove AOE damage from lightning staves.Then I will have to replace that like I just did with my templar, using skills like strikes. To be honest: I am not willing to destroy my health for such a reason, so this likely will be the point where I will switch to other games completely.
This trend is not new. E.g. sorcerers had a strong AOE, crystal blast. Was removed completely, so without AOE from a staff they rely on pulsar (staff skill), that does far less damage and has higher cost than the former crystal blast. Another unhealthy replacement causing physical pain for older players.

But this is round the wrong way. You are complaining that soloing a WB isn't as easy as it used to be!

ZoS's answer will be that you shouldn't be soloing WBs, they are meant to be grouped content. Therefore their nerfs were long overdue.

That you could still solo it despite the nerfs might give them the impression that they need to nerf harder...

Now you might say that you want to solo as much as you can, and I'd agree with you because this is how I mainly play, but ZoS would say that isn't how the game they've made is meant to be.

By the way, look at all the "overland is trivial" posts and you will see many people complaining about how easy overland is (including WBs). I expect many of the same people complain when the nerf hammer falls on them...

Daoin

probably works the same way as why the new players mostly leave straight away, they do things like join a dungeon and get told either how rubbish they are or its a farming run so to kill themselves to get the loot or some other pure insult going on or action enjoyment breakage. the two sides dont like each other and thats what the numbers show if you ask me.

Zastrix

SilverBride wrote: »

I do like costumes but only get the ones I can get with seals. And I am big into housing but will not gamble to get a furnishing.

And there we go. For the costumes you're using the mechanics which ZoS was forced to implement by law to make it only 99% obtainable by gambling and the rest to maybe be obtainable by grinding for months for a lootbox item which might or might not run out before you collect enough seals because the lootboxes are 'a limited time only'.

And you are basically not getting a ton of custom furnishing because it's only obtainable via gambling.

That's what I said. It's too aggressive with lootbox. I'd spend way more money than what I did on ESO if I could just buy the darn things I want without gambling, and so would a lot of other players. It's a huge turnoff that everything good is behind a gambling crate.

Cloudrest

We're in one of the most unenjoyable, stagnant gamestates that I can remember. Dragonknight has been dominating the PvE and PvP meta for over a year now with no end in sight, despite countless threads of feedback asking for adjustments and highlighting pain points. Nightblade continues to receive buffs for whatever reason. Sorcerer gets a band-aid where it needs desperately stitches to stop the bleeding. Templar and Necromancer have been forgotten at the bottom of a bottomless pit, and the Developers talk about "intentional weaknesses" and "unintended playstyles" despite encouraging an echo-chamber of "play how you want" as they continue to fall deeper and deeper. Yeah, well, I can't "play how I want", and a lot of others can't, either.

Cyrodiil revolves around high-healing, high-hp, infinite sustain low-damage builds that focus on not dying whilst being unable to really do any damage, high-hp builds that rely on the "unique and interesting" combination of Vateshran Staff, Master's Dual Wield, and Maarselok to carry their damage through a billion status effects and DoTs, Dragonknights spamming Corrosive Armor (usually with the holy trinity of DoT builds too), and gankers making sure that no-one can dare play solo under their watch. Throw in a ballgroup (or two, or three) that won't hesitate to zerg a solo player down taking a resource before faction-stacking ontop of 60 other players and making people disconnect from the game due to the strain on the server and the experience is complete; or maybe you'll run into the rare player who's forced almost into running full a glass-cannon setup just to have a chance at bursting any of these players due to how absurdly strong healing and sustain is in the current meta. Truly, I think Hybridization ruined the game by destroying build diversity and class identity and injecting even more sustain/healing into an already bloated system.

Sounds fun, right? I think the game is at a point where people are finally realizing what's been happening for the past few years. There's so much resentment and barely-restrained anger present throughout the community at the state of the game; from the PvP meta, from the recent fiasco with gifting Crown Crates, endless empty promises that are never upheld, predatory marketing, people's favorite classes being ruined, contradictory communication from Zenimax when addressing community concern and outrage, and a seeming lack of understanding/care from Zenimax themselves towards what players want, ON TOP of unfairly banning a bunch of innocent people who didn't even know they were exploiting something that Zenimax themselves broke, whilst telling them that "they'll be allowed to continue playing" instead of apologizing for the mistake. This absolutely FLOORED me.

@ZOS_Kevin did good at trying to communicate for a long time. I appreciate his efforts, I really do. But nothing has changed. Players still aren't being heard. Zenimax still isn't communicating, and I really doubt we'll hear much more on the code rewrite announced several years prior that's gatekeeping any new PvP content from being added to the game until they inevitably announce that they're cancelling it for unforeseen issues/complexities.

I've been waiting patiently for new PvP-focused content since the announcement of the code rewrite several years ago, but at this point, it's become clear that new PvP content is wishful thinking. Even if we get the code rewrite, even if we get scraps thrown at us in Cyrodiil, I still think I'll keep my engagement with ESO minimal until we start being heard. I'll get my fix elsewhere, even when I'd rather not, as ESO still holds a special place to me. I remember the sense of accomplishment and flood of emotion whenever I got another Trial Trifecta. How nervous I got during high-stakes dueling tournaments being livestreamed infront of hundreds of viewers, and how good it felt to win one. How strange it felt to be recognized by complete strangers in-game and on the forums.

Right now? I don't feel any of that. I log in, try to PvP, try to PvE, try to quest-- and the game feels empty. Hollow. I've been burned one too many times by empty promises and hope that things can change for the better, instead of continuing to circle the drain. If it wasn't for the amazing friends I've made that I still love hanging out with in-game, I'd have probably walked away completely by now. I want to love the game again, and I'm sad that I feel this way about ESO, but I know I'm not alone in saying that I just can't love it like I used to anymore.

SilverBride

Zastrix wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I do like costumes but only get the ones I can get with seals. And I am big into housing but will not gamble to get a furnishing.

And there we go. For the costumes you're using the mechanics which ZoS was forced to implement by law to make it only 99% obtainable by gambling and the rest to maybe be obtainable by grinding for months for a lootbox item which might or might not run out before you collect enough seals because the lootboxes are 'a limited time only'.

And you are basically not getting a ton of custom furnishing because it's only obtainable via gambling.

That's what I said. It's too aggressive with lootbox. I'd spend way more money than what I did on ESO if I could just buy the darn things I want without gambling, and so would a lot of other players. It's a huge turnoff that everything good is behind a gambling crate.

I learned a long time ago that I can't have everything, in real life or in game, and I'm fine with that. There are still plenty of nice costumes and furnishings to be had that don't involve crates. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

XSTRONG

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

BG3...

Just wait till Starfield launches...

Interesting to see what impact that has.

Not so big impact on Playstation players i guess, I was thinking of buying an Xbox just to play starfield but changed my mind since ps still offer many fun games.

Snamyap

SilverBride wrote: »

Zastrix wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I do like costumes but only get the ones I can get with seals. And I am big into housing but will not gamble to get a furnishing.

And there we go. For the costumes you're using the mechanics which ZoS was forced to implement by law to make it only 99% obtainable by gambling and the rest to maybe be obtainable by grinding for months for a lootbox item which might or might not run out before you collect enough seals because the lootboxes are 'a limited time only'.

And you are basically not getting a ton of custom furnishing because it's only obtainable via gambling.

That's what I said. It's too aggressive with lootbox. I'd spend way more money than what I did on ESO if I could just buy the darn things I want without gambling, and so would a lot of other players. It's a huge turnoff that everything good is behind a gambling crate.

I learned a long time ago that I can't have everything, in real life or in game, and I'm fine with that. There are still plenty of nice costumes and furnishings to be had that don't involve crates. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

But you can not seriously deny that the game would feel a lot more rewarding if you could get all that stuff through actually playing the game? I was seriously cringing when the devs on that life stream a while back had to pretend they were exited about customizable harvesting animations and stuff being added to the gamble boxes. There is so very little reason to do content, the only thing you get are sets, and most of those are worthless or very niche (the current build on my main consists of two base game dungeon sets...). Gold is useless: all the good sets are bind on pickup, all the worthwhile cosmetics and houses are crown only. The only thing that keeps me going a bit is some foolhardy sense of completionism.

thorwyn

Where is the proof that a lot of veteran players left the game?

How about 4 of my 5 regular raid groups disbanding after U35? How about 2 raid guilds completely dissolving? How about the remaining raid people struggling to get 12 people together for sign up raids despite a completely new trial?
Would that count as proof?

Auzsi

My biggest problem with the game is the lack of diversity. Doesn't matter which class i pick it plays the same with very minimal differences, uses the same race, the same weapon, the same sets, same cp and mundus etc. You can try to do something different then you are just going to be less effective and it's boring in the long run.

SilverBride

Snamyap wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Zastrix wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I do like costumes but only get the ones I can get with seals. And I am big into housing but will not gamble to get a furnishing.

And there we go. For the costumes you're using the mechanics which ZoS was forced to implement by law to make it only 99% obtainable by gambling and the rest to maybe be obtainable by grinding for months for a lootbox item which might or might not run out before you collect enough seals because the lootboxes are 'a limited time only'.

And you are basically not getting a ton of custom furnishing because it's only obtainable via gambling.

That's what I said. It's too aggressive with lootbox. I'd spend way more money than what I did on ESO if I could just buy the darn things I want without gambling, and so would a lot of other players. It's a huge turnoff that everything good is behind a gambling crate.

I learned a long time ago that I can't have everything, in real life or in game, and I'm fine with that. There are still plenty of nice costumes and furnishings to be had that don't involve crates. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

But you can not seriously deny that the game would feel a lot more rewarding if you could get all that stuff through actually playing the game? I was seriously cringing when the devs on that life stream a while back had to pretend they were exited about customizable harvesting animations and stuff being added to the gamble boxes. There is so very little reason to do content, the only thing you get are sets, and most of those are worthless or very niche (the current build on my main consists of two base game dungeon sets...). Gold is useless: all the good sets are bind on pickup, all the worthwhile cosmetics and houses are crown only. The only thing that keeps me going a bit is some foolhardy sense of completionism.

I don't feel any loss by not having every single item the game has to offer. I don't even like most of the items players buy crates for and have a hard time understanding why they are so sought after.

But I do understand that this is a business and has to pay salaries to keep the game up and running. In order to keep it free to play and not require a subscription there needs to be a source of revenue from somewhere.

markulrich1966

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

markulrich1966 wrote: »

I play since 5 years, though less meanwhile as mentioned before.
Just now, I soloed Old Deathwart, the frog WB in Blackwood. On a templar alt that was quite easy to play before U35.

I could finish the frog, but my wrist has started to hurt. I should not do this at the age of 57.
I usually play non-Oakensoul HA builds, and so can deal with such bosses without a hurting wrist, I just have not re-speced the templar yet (1 of 72 alts).
U39 will remove AOE damage from lightning staves.Then I will have to replace that like I just did with my templar, using skills like strikes. To be honest: I am not willing to destroy my health for such a reason, so this likely will be the point where I will switch to other games completely.
This trend is not new. E.g. sorcerers had a strong AOE, crystal blast. Was removed completely, so without AOE from a staff they rely on pulsar (staff skill), that does far less damage and has higher cost than the former crystal blast. Another unhealthy replacement causing physical pain for older players.

But this is round the wrong way. You are complaining that soloing a WB isn't as easy as it used to be!

ZoS's answer will be that you shouldn't be soloing WBs, they are meant to be grouped content. Therefore their nerfs were long overdue.

That you could still solo it despite the nerfs might give them the impression that they need to nerf harder...

Now you might say that you want to solo as much as you can, and I'd agree with you because this is how I mainly play, but ZoS would say that isn't how the game they've made is meant to be.

By the way, look at all the "overland is trivial" posts and you will see many people complaining about how easy overland is (including WBs). I expect many of the same people complain when the nerf hammer falls on them...

I prefer to play them in groups.
Problem is:
Xbox EU is so dead, that you almost never find other players to finish a WB.
On xbox NA it is better, but also there you feel that players lose interest. I could find others there for Blackwood bosses easily offtime, meanwhile just at primetime.

I started to suggest for EU 3 years ago to add difficulty scaling to WBs if this group content cannot be played due to the lack of groups, but there seems to be no interest in fixing this issue.
So all I can do to play this content is to solo it, and if this gets impossible or destroys my wrists because of nerfs, I can no longer play it and must look for other games.

Warhawke_80

So...(trying to keep up) Just certain servers in certain locations with certain playstyles are dead? ｢(ﾟﾍﾟ)

That's kinda every online game isn't it?

GooGa592

thorwyn wrote: »

Where is the proof that a lot of veteran players left the game?

How about 4 of my 5 regular raid groups disbanding after U35? How about 2 raid guilds completely dissolving? How about the remaining raid people struggling to get 12 people together for sign up raids despite a completely new trial?
Would that count as proof?

This is my experience as well. Virtually everyone on my friends list snapped after years of frustration when U35 dropped despite all the feedback begging or most of the U35 changes to not be implemented.

I've recently had an amazing customer service experience as well. I had a quest break and can't be abandoned or completed, and as a result I can't advance the soul magic skill line. ZOS said "too bad, we can't do anything about it, we can't even abandon the quest for you so you can start over". They said the problem will be fixed "at some point in the future".

Stamicka

There's no reason to do anything. ZOS doesn't incentivize veteran activities with worthwhile rewards. Most items that I want are locked behind RNG crates. I can't even get these crates anymore cause I would only pay for them with gold. I don't have the opportunity to earn good items from the content I complete.

Difficulty is another reason vets leave, a lot of the game is just too easy.

When some vets leave, it causes others to leave as well. There's no competition, you don't get BG queues, you don't find many people in Cyrodiil, you can't fill 12 man raid groups.

The devs have neglected the vets and it is really starting to show.

Braffin

Stamicka wrote: »

There's no reason to do anything. ZOS doesn't incentivize veteran activities with worthwhile rewards. Most items that I want are locked behind RNG crates. I can't even get these crates anymore cause I would only pay for them with gold. I don't have the opportunity to earn good items from the content I complete.

Difficulty is another reason vets leave, a lot of the game is just too easy.

When some vets leave, it causes others to leave as well. There's no competition, you don't get BG queues, you don't find many people in Cyrodiil, you can't fill 12 man raid groups.

The devs have neglected the vets and it is really starting to show.

Essentially this.

Veterans were sharing their concerns about the direction the game has taken for years now. Didn't help much, content difficulty was toned down repeatedly, interesting rewards were increasingly outsourced to crown store (cosmetica) or normal mode (arena weapons, trial sets) at the same time. Both to cater to the FOMO crowd infesting this game.

Now we see the results of this agenda. More and more vets leave due to the bad and disrespectful treatment they had to endure.

How to solve that? Well, veteran overland would be a start, as well as meaningful and difficult group content with some nice rewards.

The veteran solists will always leave for interesting single player games, as they wholeheartedly despise any form of groupplay.

Zos bet on the wrong horse for many years. Time to change that.

SilverBride

Braffin wrote: »

...content difficulty was toned down repeatedly...

I find the exact opposite to be the case.

• World bosses have become increasingly more difficult.
• Dolmens were replaced with Geysers, Harrowstorms and Vents.
• DLC dungeons are longer and more difficult than base game dungeons.
• Story bosses are more difficult and have mechanics and invulnerable phases so the fights take longer.
• Bastion Nymics were introduced.