Rebirthment wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »The Malabal Tor Questline. I hate it. I wish I could help the villain.
When you learn the backstory to the Hound, you realize who the real victim is. The Hound and the new Green Lady grew up in the same village. They were childhood friends and grew to love each other. But when she was chosen as the next Green Lady, her sense of Duty was stronger than her Love, and the Hound was betrayed, abandoned, devastated. Forced to let her go to be married to someone else. Everything he did, was out of pain and sorrow and a last desperate attempt to regain his other half.
And I killed him.
And they thanked me for it.
And the dialogue options forced me to congratulate the married "couple", as the Green Lady joked to me about the vigorous Honeymoon to follow.
he murdered people out of sorrow?
That's a bit of an Oversimplification. You should read the replies. Basically he did so by feelings of Sorrow, anger, and betrayal.
Going off all the agrees to the opposition to my opinion I know I pretty much stand alone in my interpretation, and that's fine. I've always been a Devil's Advocate. Comes from a long history of feeling victimized for misunderstandings. I know how it feels personally, which is why I sympathize with the character.spartaxoxo wrote: »We're not talking kids with a crush here, these are adult characters with a long History, and nothing about this story is concerning infringing on the Green Lady's rights? Frankly, it's not even the Hound that's solely violating her right to choose her future. It's the Green Pact taking away her right to choose. She "looks forward" to it mainly because she has no choice in the matter, it's an obligation to her people that must be obeyed.
??????? I understand having sympathy for the Hound, but how is that story NOT a massive infringement on her rights?
edit:Ulthorn: "They fear him, Gwaering! With Hircine's aid, we could …."
Gwaering: "The Daedric Prince? I won't hear any more. If you think I'd turn against my people, you're mad."
Ulthorn: "I don't care what it takes. Gwaering, I won't let this die. I'll do anything for you!"
Gwaering: "Anything? Then stop! My duty is to my people. I will protect them from any threat. Even you!"
Ulthorn: "Gwaering …."
Gwaering: "Take back the amulet, Ulthorn. Take it, and remember what we once were."
Ulthorn: "This isn't over. This is not the end!"
Yup. This is why as much as i pity Ulthorn, him calling for Hircine's aid and refusal to accept her choice is what ultimately caused his downfall.
Guess I'm just a bleeding heart for those who were wronged, and fell down a dark path.
Rebirthment wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »The Malabal Tor Questline. I hate it. I wish I could help the villain.
When you learn the backstory to the Hound, you realize who the real victim is. The Hound and the new Green Lady grew up in the same village. They were childhood friends and grew to love each other. But when she was chosen as the next Green Lady, her sense of Duty was stronger than her Love, and the Hound was betrayed, abandoned, devastated. Forced to let her go to be married to someone else. Everything he did, was out of pain and sorrow and a last desperate attempt to regain his other half.
And I killed him.
And they thanked me for it.
And the dialogue options forced me to congratulate the married "couple", as the Green Lady joked to me about the vigorous Honeymoon to follow.
he murdered people out of sorrow?
That's a bit of an Oversimplification. You should read the replies. Basically he did so by feelings of Sorrow, anger, and betrayal.
Going off all the agrees to the opposition to my opinion I know I pretty much stand alone in my interpretation, and that's fine. I've always been a Devil's Advocate. Comes from a long history of feeling victimized for misunderstandings. I know how it feels personally, which is why I sympathize with the character.spartaxoxo wrote: »We're not talking kids with a crush here, these are adult characters with a long History, and nothing about this story is concerning infringing on the Green Lady's rights? Frankly, it's not even the Hound that's solely violating her right to choose her future. It's the Green Pact taking away her right to choose. She "looks forward" to it mainly because she has no choice in the matter, it's an obligation to her people that must be obeyed.
??????? I understand having sympathy for the Hound, but how is that story NOT a massive infringement on her rights?
edit:Ulthorn: "They fear him, Gwaering! With Hircine's aid, we could …."
Gwaering: "The Daedric Prince? I won't hear any more. If you think I'd turn against my people, you're mad."
Ulthorn: "I don't care what it takes. Gwaering, I won't let this die. I'll do anything for you!"
Gwaering: "Anything? Then stop! My duty is to my people. I will protect them from any threat. Even you!"
Ulthorn: "Gwaering …."
Gwaering: "Take back the amulet, Ulthorn. Take it, and remember what we once were."
Ulthorn: "This isn't over. This is not the end!"
Yup. This is why as much as i pity Ulthorn, him calling for Hircine's aid and refusal to accept her choice is what ultimately caused his downfall.
Guess I'm just a bleeding heart for those who were wronged, and fell down a dark path.
he chose that dark path.
Considering the variables influencing his emotions. Agree to disagree.
if someone does something influenced by emotions like anger they still chose to do that. if Hircine possessed the Hound and literally made him do evil it wouldn't be his choice, but that didn't happen so despite emotions he still chose evil. an emotion doesn't make a choice not someone's choice
How do you know for sure that didn't happen? Hircine, a Daedric Prince. Once the deal was struck his Soul was Hircine's. Devastating heartbreak combined with Daedric corruption. Things get real foggy.
If you need a comparison, Dark Side Anakin Skywalker.
Also this is now my end to my part of this discussion. Any more of me debating my support of a villain character and someone will probably report me for trolling or something.
Anakin just like the Hound chose evil.
he is a funny comparison to make.
if you think you'll be reported for trolling for supporting a villain character, you could've also just chosen not to.
TairenSoul wrote: »Hungers! Very unsettling!
spartaxoxo wrote: »The Hound sought out a way to disregard her wishes from the start. Hircine or no Hircine, The Hound was the type of man that felt like his woman was literally his property and she wasn't allowed to leave him. As a woman, the Hound represents something that is quite scary.
I understand sympathy for him in the sense that she left him out of duty to her people. So, I can understand his rage against a society that would put either of them in that position. But, where he completely loses my sympathy is he intends to force her to be by his side. And he doesn't care at all if that's her free will or not.
He wasn't entitled to the Green Lady. He should have cared about what she wanted if he claimed to love her. That's not love, that's obsession. And it's truly a scary and unsettling villain. That he causes so much conversation shows how well written it is. Anyway, the Hound is one of the most unsettling characters in this game imo. The more I have put thought into his character, the more creeped out I get lol.
I play only solo and wanted to do normal Cradle of Shadows with Isobel (as a tank) to check if there was any lore/story related to Morrowind chapter which I was just starting at the time, getting through that boss that has a one shot attack took 2 or 3 days of attempts, and then I finally got lucky and beat him once but then found that the final boss also had a one shot mechanic so it took me a while to find that you had to not move and block that attack. I ended up finishing the dungeon in the same session, but it lasted like 5 hours, was really tired after that. It kind of put me off doing DLC dungeons, but I understand the others are not as hard to solo on normal. I still have some base game dungeons I haven't got around to trying yet anyway. I think the Telvanni Efficiency set will make things easier for these kinds of scenarios moving forward.
The only dungeon I've not been able to complete so far is Blackheart Haven because of that final boss ability that turns you into a skeleton, I wonder if the companion can provoke the boss so he uses that move on the companion instead. I heard you can also survive being a skeleton by being a tank with a lot of health, which I'm not.