Patch 8.1.3 Combat Feedback

  • pklemming
    pklemming
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    Le sigh

    We literally said, we don't care much about reducing LA and HA damage, but revert everything else. In one swoop, this would achieve your goal of reducing the cap, whilst also reducing the floor less.

    You managed to change LA and HA damage and not really fix what we wanted: Issues with dot durations and ticks, reverting animal species passive, reverting templar and flurry.

    Then you made it worse, but rendering solar barrage useless. I don't recall seeing anyone ask for changes.

    I get people spent time on flurry and jabs, but these are a key dislike. We don't like the change or animation of either. If something is an unpopular change, do not push it through just because people spent time on it, if the result is that you lose people because of it.

    Just so you know, with a partial reversion, your aim of making things easier for people so they 'need to look at their skill bar less', is actually way worse, with skills now having times from 3 seconds all the way up to 30 something for reflective light. You actually made things significantly harder than they were.

    To sum it up: You reverted stuff we cared less about, and made a patch about it, whilst ignoring the core complaints and reason people are leaving. Adding insult to injury, you then nerfed another Templar core skill.

    I am not happy, but I am less annoyed. The problem with the 5 stages is that 'acceptance' involves us going elsewhere.
    Edited by pklemming on August 1, 2022 6:04PM
  • karekiz
    karekiz
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    EMPOWER LOL
  • Norbert
    Norbert
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    Leave Jabs like it is on Live. Nobody asked for or wants these changes for templars. Why can't you just leave it alone? Just like the Oakensoul ring, leave it alone. You don't have to change anything about it. Just make Oakensoul not work in PVP. Done. Why does everything have to be changed for the sake of change?

    THIS!
    Logres Midgard!
  • Mr_Stach
    Mr_Stach
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    Scorch:
    This ability and the Deep Fissure morph now deal their damage after 3 and 9 seconds, rather than 4 and 10.
    These abilities now hit with 2 unique damage sources – the first hit deals approximately 14% less damage while the second hit does 20% more damage.
    Reduced the cost of these abilities to 2700, down from 3240, to help improve their ability to be recast early for more DPS or faking your opponent out.
    Subterranean Assault (morph):
    This morph continues to reduce the time it takes for the second hit to go off, but this second hit does not gain the extra damage.
    Please note this ability is currently not working as intended and its timing is still 3 and 8 seconds, rather than the intended 3 and 6 seconds.
    Developer Comment:
    The changes to Scorch and their morphs were done in attempts to try and help the class feel less intensely focused on buff management and allow for other actions in combat, while still trying to retain their burst-oriented nature, to a more balanced degree when comparing them to other burst skills and taking their total time before impact better into account. The original PTS iteration was ultimately too disruptive to those who are familiar with the class, as it threw off the timing of the skill by a second, so we have brought it down back to the original duration while also keeping its overall timer divisible by 3s to help ensure a rhythm is felt with the class. By separating the damage, we can also better allow the skill to function as a burst skill or a sustained DPS skill, where recasting it earlier will result in more total DPS, whereas waiting for the bigger explosion will result in those dopamine printing burst combos.

    First thing first let's set the stage with Week 1 because that lays the ground work,
    Scorch:
    This ability and its morphs now last for 10 seconds in total, detonating once after 4 seconds and again 6 seconds after that, rather than only once every 3 seconds.
    Reduced the damage by approximately 8%.
    Increased the cost to 3240, up from 2430.
    Subterranean Assault (morph): This morph now reduces the time it takes for each damage event to occur, causing the damage to occur after 3 seconds and 5 seconds after that.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam

    Is the damage nerf from Week 1 still in Place?

    If so, this is extremely bad, if not this is kinda bad.

    Why are you trying to reinvent this skill this patch, I do appreciate the timing change, I really do, the 6 second delay on Sub is a weird choice. But let's talk Damage.

    Now Deep Fissure gets 20% damage Buff on second hit, which is interesting. But then Sub Assault doesn't get this. I have issues with this. Wardens are pretty bias when it comes to passives, we get extra Magic and Frost Damage, Deep Fissure has Major and Minor Breach. Also on top of this Advanced Species was switched to Pen, which favors Stam More, but I still think the Damage boosts the Damage more.

    So the big question is what is the end goal here, are you planning on reverting the Advanced Species Passive?
    Can you Clarify the Damage on here if it is overwriting the Nerf from Week 1 or not.

    So far this is just another Nerf for Warden.
    Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main

    Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
    The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup
  • Tanis-Stormbinder
    Tanis-Stormbinder
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    The changes to Empower hurt Templar dps another nerf
  • Nemeliom
    Nemeliom
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    Sandman929 wrote: »
    I'd say better with 8.1.3...except this:

    Nocturnal’s Ploy: Increased the cooldown of this set to be 15 seconds, up from 2, to reduce the rate in which it can actively dispel effects from a target.

    There is no cooldown that makes this ok...it's a terrible idea and it literally robs players of gold/resources used to buy or craft potions since it steals potion buffs.
    It's a horrible idea, quit trying to make it seem better.

    Not entirely sure about this anymore. Players in pvp are constantly using skills that causes debuffs on other players. They won't wait until you drink a potion to hit you. And once they hit you, they have to wait 15 seconds to re-apply it.

    I'd rather use a better set. And you can't stack this set I belive. You can't be targeted by it after another 15 seconds, even if more players are using it. Which means it could make your set useless if another player is using it.
    Baradur Morker - Level 50 Bosmer Nightblade
    Le-Duck - Level 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight
    Boom-Stormer - Level 50 High Elf Sorcerer
    Nemeliom the Great - Level 50 Redguard Warden
    Crazy Little Maggie - Level 50 High Elf Templar
  • Foxtrot39
    Foxtrot39
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    fiender66 wrote: »
    LA some % less, HA some % less.

    Maybe I'm so dumb to miss something relevant, but this looks to me as some more nerf.

    18th of this month my sub ends. This notes have made me save some €120+.

    A good result indeed :expressionless:

    The light attack changes will result in damage being less than live but more than the initial PTS damage. So they are still nerfing light attack damage.

    The heavy attack damage will see lesser damage drops from live, but the change to empower will mean the players using heavy attack builds in PVE should see a significant buff when utilizing empower.

    This is also a nice buff to player with disabilities which are bound to use HA a lot more often than other players
  • DeathStalker
    DeathStalker
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    Marto wrote: »

    That's literally what they did right now.

    True, they still got rid of Major Force, but Major Force is an extremely powerful buff that was always intended to be a short-duration, sporadic buff that only a couple sets in the game can provide. Having 100% uptime on Major Force was absolutely OP, and needed to be toned down.

    No, It's been over-nerfed like everything else. Leave it alone completely. It's fine for PVE the way it is on live. Just make it not work with Battle spirit. I 100% disagree with you. It accomplishes their stated goals of raising the floor just like it is on Live. It's fine the way it is for PVE. Why does everything have to be ruined because of PVP or End Game elite players
  • fiender66
    fiender66
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    fiender66 wrote: »
    LA some % less, HA some % less.

    Maybe I'm so dumb to miss something relevant, but this looks to me as some more nerf.

    18th of this month my sub ends. This notes have made me save some €120+.

    A good result indeed :expressionless:

    The light attack changes will result in damage being less than live but more than the initial PTS damage. So they are still nerfing light attack damage.

    The heavy attack damage will see lesser damage drops from live, but the change to empower will mean the players using heavy attack builds in PVE should see a significant buff when utilizing empower.

    @jaws343 yes, empower is more or less doubled, but you have to use HA, slowing significantly your action, while LA do less than before. Besides, not everyone can or want to use empower. Consider also that the sets that give empower (5 or 6 of them) are all DLC bound, except one dropping in Auridon. And all in all, they ARE nerfing both LA and HA (not for VWs, true, a solace), so the buff by empower is less than it appears at first sight.
  • jaws343
    jaws343
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    fiender66 wrote: »
    jaws343 wrote: »
    fiender66 wrote: »
    LA some % less, HA some % less.

    Maybe I'm so dumb to miss something relevant, but this looks to me as some more nerf.

    18th of this month my sub ends. This notes have made me save some €120+.

    A good result indeed :expressionless:

    The light attack changes will result in damage being less than live but more than the initial PTS damage. So they are still nerfing light attack damage.

    The heavy attack damage will see lesser damage drops from live, but the change to empower will mean the players using heavy attack builds in PVE should see a significant buff when utilizing empower.

    @jaws343 yes, empower is more or less doubled, but you have to use HA, slowing significantly your action, while LA do less than before. Besides, not everyone can or want to use empower. Consider also that the sets that give empower (5 or 6 of them) are all DLC bound, except one dropping in Auridon. And all in all, they ARE nerfing both LA and HA (not for VWs, true, a solace), so the buff by empower is less than it appears at first sight.

    I very explicitly said that Players using heavy attack build would see a buff from live. Which is true. Especially if they use Oakensoul, which now has permanent Empower. If you are a player running a heavy attack build, you WILL be using something with empower. It isn't a can or a want, you will be using it to be effective.

    Which seems to be their intent. An overall nerf to heavy attack damage, to lower player damage, but allowing heavies to synergize with empower in a unique way to make heavy attack spammable builds viable options for decent DPS.
  • WoppaBoem
    WoppaBoem
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    Marto wrote: »

    That's literally what they did right now.

    True, they still got rid of Major Force, but Major Force is an extremely powerful buff that was always intended to be a short-duration, sporadic buff that only a couple sets in the game can provide. Having 100% uptime on Major Force was absolutely OP, and needed to be toned down.

    No, It's been over-nerfed like everything else. Leave it alone completely. It's fine for PVE the way it is on live. Just make it not work with Battle spirit. I 100% disagree with you. It accomplishes their stated goals of raising the floor just like it is on Live. It's fine the way it is for PVE. Why does everything have to be ruined because of PVP or End Game elite players

    Lol your argument gets old. Please read developer comments better please. This ring offers a lot especially for players with accessibility problems. Your monsters cannot come to the forums but you dropping ults like normal skills and 100% major force uptime if they could they would scream out loud here.
    Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only
  • shadyjane62
    shadyjane62
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    GetAgrippa wrote: »
    I think I've got it. Zos wants templars to slot solar barrage and run around heavy attacking everything from melee range. That's the new templar meta.

    No Thank You.
  • merpins
    merpins
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    If they want to buff heavy attacks, great. Make empower give 80% heavy attack damage. But there's no point in using it for most builds. If they want to keep that buff, keep it, but empower should also grant 40% light attack damage as before.
  • prof_doom
    prof_doom
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    merpins wrote: »
    If they want to buff heavy attacks, great. Make empower give 80% heavy attack damage. But there's no point in using it for most builds. If they want to keep that buff, keep it, but empower should also grant 40% light attack damage as before.

    Hell, if they really insist on LA nerfing, nerf the LA boost to like 20%. At least there'd still be some point to empower then.
  • vivisectvib16_ESO
    vivisectvib16_ESO
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    Re: Empower..define "monsters". Is this a certain type of enemy NPC or all enemies, just not player controlled enemies?
  • fiender66
    fiender66
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    OMG, from some comments above it looks like everyone is sporting Oakensoul and/or using some HA build.

    Oaken is a mythic and as such not accessible to everyone (one need High Isles, you figure!), nor that easy to obtain, and, till now, I've not seen all those HA lovers around (if not, why sets granting Empower are so few and so niche?).

    For what is worth, I've just run a swift PTS test, on the content that I usually use to test new builds (Craglorn, some WB, a pair of basic dungeons) and my templar toons. What I got is that the Empower buff (from Barrage, Emp Sweep and Mages passive) is not particularly impressive, while the loss of lucklustre of the class definitely is. Needless to say, using HA for damage, the rotation is completely disrupted. One can always learn new things, that's true, but in this case, the advantage is scanty to put it mildly.

    Surprisingly, I have to confirm what I noticed a few days ago and reported in another comment of mine: the stamsorc (but not the magsorc) fares better with respect to the first patch, returning ALMOST as she is in Live. I've no explanation for this, but my feeling is a definite, not a subtle one (again, for what is worth).
  • James-Wayne
    James-Wayne
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    Removing Empower from Light Attacks is a good move seeing Light Attacks now scale again with damage.

    Buffed light attacks for end game players in most cases was the biggest portion of a DPS rotation which it shouldn't be... its in the word Light, Attack.

    Should not be producing the most damage. Good change.
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  • Ascarl
    Ascarl
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    IMHO the devs surrendered to the small but vocal crowd [snip], yet returning to the "LA weave or die" meta. This is a sad day.

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 2, 2022 1:30PM
  • Arcanasx
    Arcanasx
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    Removing Empower from Light Attacks is a good move seeing Light Attacks now scale again with damage.

    Buffed light attacks for end game players in most cases was the biggest portion of a DPS rotation which it shouldn't be... its in the word Light, Attack.

    Should not be producing the most damage. Good change.

    It makes sense when those "Light, Attacks" are being used repeatedly and more so than any other type of attack.

    And more than anything, the significant increase in damage that has been causing the gap that has taken place over the years has to do with the increasingly stronger pve sets and group buffs (and debuffs) that they have been introducing over those years. Not just because they also happen to be better at weaving light attacks.

    This focus on nerfing light attacks isn't the right solution.
  • boi_anachronism_
    boi_anachronism_
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    Nightblade nerfed again lol, ambush is useless. Think about it, your gonna ambush and then stand there and heavy attack. Really? Really really? I thought maybe I had some hope to recover from the massive nerf I'm getting this patch. Likely be back down to 50k or lower and this is just insulting 😆
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    Nightblade nerfed again lol, ambush is useless. Think about it, your gonna ambush and then stand there and heavy attack. Really? Really really? I thought maybe I had some hope to recover from the massive nerf I'm getting this patch. Likely be back down to 50k or lower and this is just insulting 😆
    Yeah, it is kinda weird that they did not addressed that. Every skill or passive that gives you Empower was nerfed:
    https://eso-hub.com/en/buffs-debuffs/empower

    ^ All of those things are kinda useless now, and if it is a skill - people will switch to different morph.
  • CameraBeardThePirate
    CameraBeardThePirate
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    Nemeliom wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    I'd say better with 8.1.3...except this:

    Nocturnal’s Ploy: Increased the cooldown of this set to be 15 seconds, up from 2, to reduce the rate in which it can actively dispel effects from a target.

    There is no cooldown that makes this ok...it's a terrible idea and it literally robs players of gold/resources used to buy or craft potions since it steals potion buffs.
    It's a horrible idea, quit trying to make it seem better.

    Not entirely sure about this anymore. Players in pvp are constantly using skills that causes debuffs on other players. They won't wait until you drink a potion to hit you. And once they hit you, they have to wait 15 seconds to re-apply it.

    I'd rather use a better set. And you can't stack this set I belive. You can't be targeted by it after another 15 seconds, even if more players are using it. Which means it could make your set useless if another player is using it.

    You can stack the set, which is what makes it overloaded. The set cooldown is tied to the wearer, not the target. However, even if it was tied to the target, it would still be overloaded based solely on the fact that it can strip potion buffs. Removing a potion buff has no counterplay; you can't just rebuff if you get a potion buff removed.
  • Billium813
    Billium813
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    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7677042/#Comment_7677042
    • Weapon
      • Dual Wield
        • Flurry: Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs were being treated as Damage over Time in some cases.

    If Flurry isn't a DOT anymore, then the Arena set Cruel Flurry should be updated too. Perhaps it should be changed to effect channeled abilities?
    Cruel Flurry

    (2 items) When you deal damage with Flurry, your single target damage over time abilities used within 4 seconds gain 1690 Spell and Weapon Damage.
  • thorwyn
    thorwyn
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    By now, I am 100% convinced that this PTS cycle is one huge social experiment by ZOS. There is no other explanation.
    And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
    And if there is no room upon the hill
    And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
  • CameraBeardThePirate
    CameraBeardThePirate
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    Billium813 wrote: »
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7677042/#Comment_7677042
    • Weapon
      • Dual Wield
        • Flurry: Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs were being treated as Damage over Time in some cases.

    If Flurry isn't a DOT anymore, then the Arena set Cruel Flurry should be updated too. Perhaps it should be changed to effect channeled abilities?
    Cruel Flurry

    (2 items) When you deal damage with Flurry, your single target damage over time abilities used within 4 seconds gain 1690 Spell and Weapon Damage.

    I think you're misunderstanding. Flurry hasn't been treated as a DoT in most cases for a while now. The notes are simply fixing the few cases where it was, and this will have no change on the Cruel Flurry set.
  • DinoZavr
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    So, still nothing for Jabs ?
    As for me the only spammable which survives U35 now is Surprise Attack.
    Zenimax, could you, please, do not nerf jabs ?
    PC EU
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
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    Can we please take a look at skills that grant empower, now that they lose half their functionality in pvp?
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    Firstmep wrote: »
    Can we please take a look at skills that grant empower, now that they lose half their functionality in pvp?

    Our data has shown that Dizzy Swing sees far more use in Cyrdoiil than Wrecking Blow. Therefor we removed the stun from Dizzy Swing to bring both morphs more in line for PvP.
  • Holycannoli
    Holycannoli
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    I very explicitly said that Players using heavy attack build would see a buff from live. Which is true. Especially if they use Oakensoul, which now has permanent Empower. If you are a player running a heavy attack build, you WILL be using something with empower. It isn't a can or a want, you will be using it to be effective.

    Which seems to be their intent. An overall nerf to heavy attack damage, to lower player damage, but allowing heavies to synergize with empower in a unique way to make heavy attack spammable builds viable options for decent DPS.

    Are there a lot of people running HA PvE builds?
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    I very explicitly said that Players using heavy attack build would see a buff from live. Which is true. Especially if they use Oakensoul, which now has permanent Empower. If you are a player running a heavy attack build, you WILL be using something with empower. It isn't a can or a want, you will be using it to be effective.

    Which seems to be their intent. An overall nerf to heavy attack damage, to lower player damage, but allowing heavies to synergize with empower in a unique way to make heavy attack spammable builds viable options for decent DPS.

    Are there a lot of people running HA PvE builds?

    Dont think theres like a ton of ppl.
    I think new players mostly prefer to spam skills for the visuals.
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