Patch 8.1.3 Combat Feedback

prof_doom

Light and heavy attacks - Still sounds like too much of a reduction, especially for the heavy attacks

Empower: This buff now increases your damage against monsters with Heavy Attacks by 80%, rather than your damage done with Light and Heavy Attacks by 1800 from PTS v8.1.0 or 40% from the live servers.

You've managed to make Empower completely useless for 90% of the playerbase. I suppose it makes the skill choices easier. No point to running empower anymore.

Warden Changes
I still think you should change the Advanced Species passive back to a damage buff as opposed to penetration.

Scorch: I still think it should be 3 and 6 for both morphs.

Cutting Dive: So... now it just always does a bleed? I'm a bit confused over the wording.

Overall... you managed to actually make things worse. Just roll back all the combat changes, put out the dungeons, and give some serious thought to what went wrong.

GetAgrippa

I just don't understand why they needed to do anything to Scorch at all. It was a perfectly fine, unique, class defining skill. However, what is offered on this pts cycle is at least better timing wise.

But still no word on jabs?

Sigh.

chongguang

What is the final pts patch ? 8.1.4 or 5?

Snit

Glad to see the heavy attack changes, including the Oakensoul buff. I don't use HA builds myself, but that does sound like a reasonable accessibility change.

As for the rest, I am waiting for the magblade/ magsorc changes to form an opinion. I wish we had some hint as to their plans.

karekiz

Empower

Dead Buff now. I am sorry no real DPS uses HA rotations. Stop making endgame into HA. It won't happen.

Oakensoul

I mean /shrug I guess its the HA build item now?

LA

We are still getting LA nerfed? Why? WHY are we getting nerfs? Who wants this? ON TOP of empower nerf this is actually WORSE than before.

That's it?

That was it for patch notes? Welp thats all folks

Jazraena

I mostly like where it's going. It's not enough yet, but then it's also not complete by their own statements.

Whether it will be complete by the end of PTS is the thing I have my doubts on.

ebix_

and this was them showing love to a class ? cant wait for next week to see changes that no one asked for which makes magblade and magsorc even worse.

xaraan

prof_doom wrote: »

Light and heavy attacks - Still sounds like too much of a reduction, especially for the heavy attacks

Empower: This buff now increases your damage against monsters with Heavy Attacks by 80%, rather than your damage done with Light and Heavy Attacks by 1800 from PTS v8.1.0 or 40% from the live servers.

You've managed to make Empower completely useless for 90% of the playerbase. I suppose it makes the skill choices easier. No point to running empower anymore.

TBH, I'm pretty sure that was the point.

Last time they were working on LA/HA changes a couple years ago, a few streamers were all about the change b/c they really want to just make 'hold the button down' heavy attack builds to clear stuff easier while they talk to stream. They were selling it before it even went to PTS last time, they got a look at those changes and at PTS before even the class reps had heard about the changes last time. It blew up in their faces and this was their second try.

So, what they want to do is make heavy attack builds a thing by making it less useful to actually play the game or make use of the dynamic combat. I think the big concern was HA one shot builds in PvP, so they fixed that with the "to monsters" part and now are free to offer a nice buff to HAs - that's why they put it on oakensoul too.

So yea, they don't want LAs to be that useful, but they've seen the blowback from killing them too much. So they are trying every which way to make it happen.

sbr32

GetAgrippa wrote: »

I just don't understand why they needed to do anything to XXX at all.

That is the theme to this entire pts cycle.

GetAgrippa

So are all these skills or passives that grant empower going to just remain that way? Granting a mostly useless buff?

Sandman929

I'd say better with 8.1.3...except this:

Nocturnal’s Ploy: Increased the cooldown of this set to be 15 seconds, up from 2, to reduce the rate in which it can actively dispel effects from a target.

There is no cooldown that makes this ok...it's a terrible idea and it literally robs players of gold/resources used to buy or craft potions since it steals potion buffs.
It's a horrible idea, quit trying to make it seem better.

The_Lex

If ZOS is hell bent on keeping Nocturnal's Ploy, then the cool down needs to be a lot longer. 15 seconds? Mechanical Acuity has a 25 second cool down.

Tanis-Stormbinder

No buffs to jabs how disappointing

Faulgor

karekiz wrote: »

Oakensoul

I mean /shrug I guess its the HA build item now?

Don't see how it can be when you have to drop vMA staff for it (unless you don't want 2 5pc sets).
I mean, it's still easy access to Empower, but I'd rather play a DK with Molten Armaments for that buff.

Jazraena

Sandman929 wrote: »

I'd say better with 8.1.3...except this:

Nocturnal’s Ploy: Increased the cooldown of this set to be 15 seconds, up from 2, to reduce the rate in which it can actively dispel effects from a target.

There is no cooldown that makes this ok...it's a terrible idea and it literally robs players of gold/resources used to buy or craft potions since it steals potion buffs.
It's a horrible idea, quit trying to make it seem better.

Indeed. That set is my main caveat with these notes.

Having a set that autocleanses buffs is just... wrong.

CaptainVenom

I presume this is Oakensoul final change. It looks really interesting PvE-wise now, but I think they should have kept Empower at least with 20% damage during PvP: it is half of what we got now, but it is still there.

I expected more class changes/reverts, though. Stamsorc looks bad atm.

Arthtur

Yeah at this point, all those changes just create more problems. This patch rly shouldnt go live.

Also, wont those changes to empower and HA bring back HA oneshots? Im not a PvP player but there was a lot of complains about that...

Runkorko

With their spamable nerfed, stam dk and templars are literaly dead / in pvp atleast/
I dont get why you want evey stam dps to use dw or 2h skills as spamable ?
With such logic just remove classes.
RiP stam warden, RiP stam templar. RiP stam DK. RiP sorc /in general.
Viva la NB.

chessalavakia_ESO

Arthtur wrote: »

Yeah at this point, all those changes just create more problems. This patch rly shouldnt go live.

Also, wont those changes to empower and HA bring back HA oneshots? Im not a PvP player but there was a lot of complains about that...

Empower: This buff now increases your damage against monsters with Heavy Attacks by 80%, rather than your damage done with Light and Heavy Attacks by 1800 from PTS v8.1.0 or 40% from the live servers.

We have turned this buff type into a more niche playstyle focus buff that is meant to help empower more accessibility driven builds, as Heavy Attacks requiring less precise activation and frequency of inputs compared to their Light Attack counterparts. In addition to this, we have decided to remove the impact it can have in PvP environments to avoid re-enabling one shot builds.

It's not going to increase the damage vs players.

prof_doom

As I reread the notes while chatting with people, Scorch is more confusing than I initially thought.

So the dev note says:

By separating the damage, we can also better allow the skill to function as a burst skill or a sustained DPS skill, where recasting it earlier will result in more total DPS

But then you look at the actual skill....

These abilities now hit with 2 unique damage sources – the first hit deals approximately 14% less damage while the second hit does 20% more damage.

So recasting early isn't actually higher damage, unless they've gotten the patch notes backwards.

And of course the fact that they didn't actually get it adjusted right for the patch means people can't really even test it.

Please note this ability is currently not working as intended and its timing is still 3 and 8 seconds, rather than the intended 3 and 6 seconds.

GetAgrippa

I think I've got it. Zos wants templars to slot solar barrage and run around heavy attacking everything from melee range. That's the new templar meta.

Runkorko

Jazraena wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I'd say better with 8.1.3...except this:

Nocturnal’s Ploy: Increased the cooldown of this set to be 15 seconds, up from 2, to reduce the rate in which it can actively dispel effects from a target.

There is no cooldown that makes this ok...it's a terrible idea and it literally robs players of gold/resources used to buy or craft potions since it steals potion buffs.
It's a horrible idea, quit trying to make it seem better.

Indeed. That set is my main caveat with these notes.

Having a set that autocleanses buffs is just... wrong.

I dont get it. its a 15 seconds cd on set, or player debuff?
Because i can see ballers runing this set. If its 15 sec cd on set, will make no diference if 5 ppl spaming blast bones /aslo aoe.
I do agree, this set should not go live. Stop changing it, just remove it.

Arthtur

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

Yeah at this point, all those changes just create more problems. This patch rly shouldnt go live.

Also, wont those changes to empower and HA bring back HA oneshots? Im not a PvP player but there was a lot of complains about that...

Empower: This buff now increases your damage against monsters with Heavy Attacks by 80%, rather than your damage done with Light and Heavy Attacks by 1800 from PTS v8.1.0 or 40% from the live servers.

We have turned this buff type into a more niche playstyle focus buff that is meant to help empower more accessibility driven builds, as Heavy Attacks requiring less precise activation and frequency of inputs compared to their Light Attack counterparts. In addition to this, we have decided to remove the impact it can have in PvP environments to avoid re-enabling one shot builds.

It's not going to increase the damage vs players.

Yeah i know but HA scale again with stats and didnt get nerfed compared to LA. Even with empower change not working on players it still a big damage buff compared to what was previously.

CameraBeardThePirate

Runkorko wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I'd say better with 8.1.3...except this:

Nocturnal’s Ploy: Increased the cooldown of this set to be 15 seconds, up from 2, to reduce the rate in which it can actively dispel effects from a target.

There is no cooldown that makes this ok...it's a terrible idea and it literally robs players of gold/resources used to buy or craft potions since it steals potion buffs.
It's a horrible idea, quit trying to make it seem better.

Indeed. That set is my main caveat with these notes.

Having a set that autocleanses buffs is just... wrong.

I dont get it. its a 15 seconds cd on set, or player debuff?
Because i can see ballers runing this set. If its 15 sec cd on set, will make no diference if 5 ppl spaming blast bones /aslo aoe.
I do agree, this set should not go live. Stop changing it, just remove it.

Blastbones won't proc it as 1) it's a pet and therefore doesn't proc any set and 2) it's a delayed damage skill and those are specifically barred from proccing Nocturnals. However it's a moot point because even with a 15 sec cooldown groups in Cyrodiil can have a handful of people spamming Ele Drain to strip both a minor and a major for free

Marto

prof_doom wrote: »

As I reread the notes while chatting with people, Scorch is more confusing than I initially thought.

So the dev note says:

By separating the damage, we can also better allow the skill to function as a burst skill or a sustained DPS skill, where recasting it earlier will result in more total DPS

But then you look at the actual skill....

These abilities now hit with 2 unique damage sources – the first hit deals approximately 14% less damage while the second hit does 20% more damage.

So recasting early isn't actually higher damage, unless they've gotten the patch notes backwards.

Recasting will still give you more DPS, since it will allow you to do 4 scorches in 12s (same as live), when it would otherwise be 2 scorches in 12s.

fiender66

LA some % less, HA some % less.

Maybe I'm so dumb to miss something relevant, but this looks to me as some more nerf.

18th of this month my sub ends. This notes have made me save some €120+.

A good result indeed

jaws343

fiender66 wrote: »

LA some % less, HA some % less.

Maybe I'm so dumb to miss something relevant, but this looks to me as some more nerf.

18th of this month my sub ends. This notes have made me save some €120+.

A good result indeed

The light attack changes will result in damage being less than live but more than the initial PTS damage. So they are still nerfing light attack damage.

The heavy attack damage will see lesser damage drops from live, but the change to empower will mean the players using heavy attack builds in PVE should see a significant buff when utilizing empower.

FantasticFreddie

I am not sure why they are nerfing damage, particularly heavy attacks, at all, but I am..... more ok with these patch notes than previous ones.

Overall, damage it taking a nerf. But by specifically changing empower, they ARE reining in the ceiling a little bit.

DeathStalker

Leave Jabs like it is on Live. Nobody asked for or wants these changes for templars. Why can't you just leave it alone? Just like the Oakensoul ring, leave it alone. You don't have to change anything about it. Just make Oakensoul not work in PVP. Done. Why does everything have to be changed for the sake of change?

relog

Dont make empower useless for pvp, please, its too game changing. We alredy have critical resistance useless for pve.

Marto

DeathStalker wrote: »

Just make Oakensoul not work in PVP. Done.

That's literally what they did right now.

True, they still got rid of Major Force, but Major Force is an extremely powerful buff that was always intended to be a short-duration, sporadic buff that only a couple sets in the game can provide. Having 100% uptime on Major Force was absolutely OP, and needed to be toned down.