They need to wade in, here. Substantively.

And have been needing to do so for years.

Somehow I don't think the "Community" is going to be very welcoming of this abomination.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Where were you the last couple of years when they've done the exact same things they are doing right now? When is enough enough?
All ZOS seems to understand is hyperbolic outrage because only then do they actually sit down and go back on bad changes. It worked in Murkmire, it worked with the light attack changes. If it's not outrage and people are just sitting there patiently and being constructive, ZOS will ignore that feedback as usual.

I was here for the August DoT buff and September DoT nerf that made them worse than before the buff.

Uninstalled and quit the game for over two years because of that nonsense. Only came back in May and what do you know, they're pulling nerf nonsense all over again. This patch of nerfs is even worse than the 2019 fiasco as it's not just gutting DoTs, it's gutting classes and LA+HA damage.

And I don't understand why. The game is fun as it is right now. Damage is high. Oakensoul is fun. Content is easier to do. Casuals are enjoying content they couldn't enjoy before. But nooo...instead of making slight adjustments here and there to fine tune it they bring out the sledgehammer. It's so frustrating, again.

rootkitronin wrote: »

MaraxusTheOrc wrote: »

Look, I’m not going to white knight the changes in 35. I haven’t had a chance to join the PTS, but my initial reaction is one of significant skepticism.

That said, the hyperbolic and adversarial forums posts are not doing us any favors. Trust goes both ways. If the developers see our feedback after any patch is “I’m canceling, ESO is dead, you ruined everything,” why would they look at this current patch differently?

I get it. There is frustration, the belief that you’re a customer and entitled to this or that, but perhaps if we take time to frame our critiques in a more constructive manner it might help our relationship with the team. The posters who highlighted the hard DPS checks in recent trials as a conflicting design principle are doing exactly that.

ESO brings a lot of us joy. The developers are people too. There’s enough toxicity in the world. ESO can be a pretty welcoming community, so let’s not lose sight of that.

People are justifiably frustrated and upset, please don't tone police them.

"Don't tone police" is a perfectly legitimate response to people who are trying to manage other people's response to oppression or social injustice.

Nothing about this patch is oppression in any way, shape, or form.

It's frankly offensive (not to mention silly) to bring "tone policing" into the conversation in this way. OP is right; civility and constructive criticism are the right approach for, of all things, a game. If you can't even be civil about a game, our society is completely lost, beyond all hope.

Outrage is the only thing these people seem to understand.

People become loud on the forums because they care about the game.
They also become loud on the forums because there have been many, many instances in the past where good, constructive criticism has been given and then ignored. So, people feel like they've got to make some noise to make themselves heard.

I'm ok with the changes, I still think ZoS is handling balancing issues in the wrong approach tho. Instead of bringing down the ceiling, they should make it easier and more accessible for players to raise the floor.
I learned a long time ago to stop caring about builds, I want a challenge and the only way to do so is by not making specialized min/max builds with special gear. Just equip whatever equipment that doesn't belong in a set and then the story will become (just slightly more) difficult.

I've always been wanting hard caps on everything and making builds more of a flavor of particle effects and not a necessity, and this is a step in that direction.

But again, considering how deep down ESO has been going with all balance changes and allowing bugs like weaving (which is now a feature apparently, like cancelling in DMC for better combos which was a bug but it's now legitimized), at this point they shouldn't be bringing down the numbers in our stats, but rather making it easier for casuals to get their hands on better gear and make builds easier.

Calling for people to lose their jobs and being personally insulting is not valid feedback to patch notes. Comments specifically targeting the proposed changes are fair game. Its not too hard to tell the difference.

OP makes a fine point but it is hard to be open-minded and take a 'wait and see' attitude with updates when it comes to combat changes. The reason is simple. Experience has taught many players to dread the combat changes that come with updates.

While updates have provided many fine quality of life improvements, new and fun activities, companions and many more nice things that improve the game, the cost has inevitably been combat changes that render the game less fun. So players complain. ZoS does not respond so players tend to complain louder and even get hyperbolic. The PTS cycle has shown repeatedly that PTS finishes the same way it opens with no or insignificant heed to PTS feedback.

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Calling for people to lose their jobs and being personally insulting is not valid feedback to patch notes. Comments specifically targeting the proposed changes are fair game. Its not too hard to tell the difference.

Here's some easy, direct feedback: Remove the class and DoT changes and leave everything else.

There, done.

I kinda miss the days before crown crates and 100USD houses.

MaraxusTheOrc wrote: »

Look, I’m not going to white knight the changes in 35. I haven’t had a chance to join the PTS, but my initial reaction is one of significant skepticism.

That said, the hyperbolic and adversarial forums posts are not doing us any favors. Trust goes both ways. If the developers see our feedback after any patch is “I’m canceling, ESO is dead, you ruined everything,” why would they look at this current patch differently?

I get it. There is frustration, the belief that you’re a customer and entitled to this or that, but perhaps if we take time to frame our critiques in a more constructive manner it might help our relationship with the team. The posters who highlighted the hard DPS checks in recent trials as a conflicting design principle are doing exactly that.

ESO brings a lot of us joy. The developers are people too. There’s enough toxicity in the world. ESO can be a pretty welcoming community, so let’s not lose sight of that.

Maybe it is happening because they are changing stuff without getting our opinion first?

I find their new standard boring and not quite a standard after all, cause you can find skills that doesn't fit in the new standard. And I fail to see the point of all these changes then.

And here is how boring their new 20s standard is. For a perfect parsing all you need to do is this:
(assume skill 1 is the spammable, skill 2-10 dots hots buffs debufs)
Skill1
SKill2
Skill1
Skill3
Skill1
Skill4
Skill1
Skill5
Skill1 (bar swap)
Skill6 (bar swap)
Skill1 (bar swap)
Skill7 (bar swap)
Skill1 (bar swap)
Skill8 (bar swap)
Skill1 (bar swap)
Skill9 (bar swap)
Skill1 (bar swap)
Skill10 (bar swap)
Repeat (18 seconds loop)

Just arrange your skills in that order and you will have a perfect parsing. You wont even need to look at your bars, the Global Cooldown will take care that your rotation is a near perfect 20 second loop.

What? too much bar swapping you say?
No problem! Replace skill 6 with the same spammable as in skill 1:
And here you go:
Skill1
SKill2
Skill1
Skill3
Skill1
Skill4
Skill1
Skill5 (bar swap)
Skill6
Skill7
Skill6
Skill8
Skill6
Skill9
Skill6
Skill10 (bar swap)
Repeat (16 seconds loop )

Problem solved! (but you might not make it into the elite end-game content groups if you do it)

Imo that playstyle will get old pretty soon, and ZOS will want to diversify it in a year or so, and they will come up with a new standard, something like this:
Buffs/Debuffs 20s
Ground Effects 10s
Hots/Dots 10s
Burst Hot/Dots 5s

And the balancing work will start from scratch again.


PS: don't use any macros in the new DLC it is still against TOS!