Im sure the most DK's can live with the healing nerf of Embers. If they would stop playing DK because of that, nobody can help them. Atleast they cant stay in fights that long anymore like a raidboss, without more than 1% Brainusage. Templar got bubble nerf. But both of you can still use more rapid regen than brain.

I dont rly understand that ''true value'' of the Dragonblood change.

Now to the nerf of Combustion, wich is the reason for my post. I didnt do any math's on it. Just to get it right:

I dont know about PvE, but in PvP i know a lot of people wich use atleast one charged trait on offhand weapon to proc burning. The better question would be if i know a DK who doesnt use that trait. Using Embers Procs burning with the initial hit aswell(wich is basically 1k costreduction on that skill). Incase Burning Spellweave is equipped, there is another Statuseffekt from the set itself, proccing it from Flame dmg if im right. not sure. But since not everyone is using BS set, lets not count it in.

Right now when you would proc Combustion burning/poisoned every 0.5 seconds, that would be 4000mag/stam regen. Lets say you proc it every second because you are unlucky, it 2k regen.
If you proc it every two second its still 1k regen kek.
Lets talk about the 3 seconds, because that what you DK's are so upset about. Proc combustion every 3 seconds and you still have (correct me if im wrong with the math's)666mag/stam regen. Even while block or in mistform kek.

Its still more regen you get from one passive than other classes get even after the combustion nerf. Not even Necro with pet passive + Cost Pet Costreduction from dying pet or Nightblade with Refreshing Shadows, Templar with runefocus would reach that numbers that DK does with this ridicilous broken passive(Idk about warden). Probably Sorc with all regen/return passives combined would match post nerf combustion.
I dont mention The big bunch of return you have from using an Ultimate, because Nightblade gets 4,2k Stam/Magicka back from Leeching-/Syphoning Strikes all 20 seconds. Most DK's i know use Daedric Trickery on Backbar and benefit from Major Heroism Ult spam. But not needed at all sustainwise, if you start care about sustain like other classes have to.

In the worst case DK have to get a regen enchant, like every other class have to. Oh my god, what a disgrace. But then you dont can go full dmg anymore without worry about sustain at all or do some heavy attacks ''like every other class needs to''. And i doubt it will change anything in PvE(trials atleast) because now you probably meet the same sustain issues like other classes, wich i still highly doubt.

I dont rly understand ZOS's plan to design DK as a Class with sustainissues in general, but i like DK's Nerf's of High Isle Patch a lot. DK's dmg still will be way up at the top. If not than get some sustain things and then you meet other dps tiers. Wont be Armageddon. Just play necro then kek or find a way with DK. I also have to live with my Nightblade Mainchar to be less priorized than almost everything else. But atleast there wont be 50% DK's in Cyrodiil anymore, because meta andys switch class instantly.

Bodycounter wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

All these people blaming pvpers for nerfs again...

What did I just read? Dks are running around this patch with 500 regen and spamming whip, FoO, and coag like it's their job.

[...] deal with the sustain issues and murder people less [...]

Also, buff magdens. What is taking so long?!

Your whole argument comes from a PvP standpoint? Dragonknights got nerfed because of PvP. That should be pretty obvious. Nerfing the sustain passive by 600% may be balanced for PvP but could seriously cripple PvE sustain. Since DKs can build hybrid relatively good, it may still be fine though.

Nerfing 4000 Mag/Stam regen by 600% is still 666Mag/Stamregen and is still more sustain than all other classes have + the Bunch DK get's back from using Ultimate.

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

DK have to get a regen enchant, like every other class have to...

What? What class and who in this game uses a regen enchant? Been playing this game for years, PvE and PvP, and 1 person out of 1000 uses regen enchant, if anyone.

Please don't state false facts.

Bodycounter wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

I am proccing 4 statuseffects in that time with one of my weaponskill's and lightattack. Pls make sure to know about combat mechanics before you comment on that.

Fact is that in PvP is no other class that can do such insane Dmg Pressure without worring about sustain at all. *** autopilot sustain kek.

And yet again, this is all about PvP again. You can't proc Combustion every 0.5 seconds in PvE, not even on a dummy. I completely understand that the DK may need nerfs to PvP performance but this Combustion nerf could seriously cripple the PvE sustain. I would have liked too see a more subtle nerf to Combustion and one or two specifically targeted at PvP.

You can procc multiple statuseffects on dummy in that time. There is no diffence between a Dummy and a Player in that case. Before i was going to use that many statuseffects for my PvP Build, i was testing everything intense on the dummy, like i do with all my builds. Instead of copy everything from guides. You should try it aswell, because you can find out a lot about the games [Snip]

[Edited for bait]

Bodycounter wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

I am proccing 4 statuseffects in that time with one of my weaponskill's and lightattack. Pls make sure to know about combat mechanics before you comment on that.

Fact is that in PvP is no other class that can do such insane Dmg Pressure without worring about sustain at all. *** autopilot sustain kek.

And yet again, this is all about PvP again. You can't proc Combustion every 0.5 seconds in PvE, not even on a dummy. I completely understand that the DK may need nerfs to PvP performance but this Combustion nerf could seriously cripple the PvE sustain. I would have liked too see a more subtle nerf to Combustion and one or two specifically targeted at PvP.

[snip] Get some game knowledge of the game pls or test things to really be sure, but dont say what maybe other people say, to look good.

Here i just did one Heavy Attack, to proc two statuseffects at the same time:




Here the Answer, to your claim that you cant proc statuseffects in the time of 0.5 seconds general. And the Proof that you can proc Combustion all 0.5 seconds after follows as answer to Arthur.

Arthtur wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

Bodycounter wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

I am proccing 4 statuseffects in that time with one of my weaponskill's and lightattack. Pls make sure to know about combat mechanics before you comment on that.

Fact is that in PvP is no other class that can do such insane Dmg Pressure without worring about sustain at all. *** autopilot sustain kek.

And yet again, this is all about PvP again. You can't proc Combustion every 0.5 seconds in PvE, not even on a dummy. I completely understand that the DK may need nerfs to PvP performance but this Combustion nerf could seriously cripple the PvE sustain. I would have liked too see a more subtle nerf to Combustion and one or two specifically targeted at PvP.

You can procc multiple statuseffects on dummy in that time. There is no diffence between a Dummy and a Player in that case. Before i was going to use that many statuseffects for my PvP Build, i was testing everything intense on the dummy, like i do with all my builds. Instead of copy everything from guides. You should try it aswell, because you can find out a lot about the games and you can refute many statements made by ignorant people like you, what incompetence of game mechanics is unparalleled.

Show me the parse where u proc burning every 0.5s. Ppl say u cant proc it every 0.5s for a reason.
Yeah u proc 4 diffrent status effect at 1 time but that doesnt mean its u proc it every 0.5s xD and there is GCD which is 1s. And LA (0.7s CD) dont proc status effects. Enchants or sets do. Enchants have 4s cd. Sets for sure dont hit every 0.5s too.

Like the best u can do is to proc combustion every second, but that's with spamming Embers or Venomus which have 100% chance for procing burning/poison. Do i have to say what a waste of DMG this is in PvE?

And for my build:
I proc poison every 5s.
I proc burning every 2.5s (every 1.5s when i use whip and every 4-5s when i use dots).

While i get it its a problem in PvP, this change nerfs sustain too much. Even old charged with old passive was better than what we have on pts. And then DK had the worst sustain in the game. How should i call what we have on PTS? Created to suffer i guess.

You said that you can proc statuseffects just from Enchants and Sets. Thats totally wrong. you can proc it from:

1. Weapon enchantment's damage
2. Single-target direct attack ability
3. Area-of-effect abilities
4. Single-target damage-over-time abilities
5. Area-of-effect damage-over-time abilities
6. Destruction staff Light or Heavy attack

And the broken thing is that DK got a all of those examples at all times to procc burning, except nr. 6 when frontbar is DW.

Second thing where you are totally wrong is that you cant proc burning every 0.5 Seconds. If it wouldnt be possible then the Ability tooltip of 0.5 second would be useless. And you need to proc burning to also proc Combustion.

Here the Proof:



1. First Combustion at 12.999 Seconds
2. Second Combustion 0.6 seconds later
3. Third Combustion 0,765seconds later

2K Mana in not even 2 seconds. Totally Balanced Class KeK

GG *** Autopilot Sustain Class. Im not sayin 3 Seconds is needed, but atleast 2 seconds.
Good Job @ZOS by nerfing the sustain of that broken class.

[edited for baiting]

Arthtur wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

Bodycounter wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

I am proccing 4 statuseffects in that time with one of my weaponskill's and lightattack. Pls make sure to know about combat mechanics before you comment on that.

Fact is that in PvP is no other class that can do such insane Dmg Pressure without worring about sustain at all. *** autopilot sustain kek.

And yet again, this is all about PvP again. You can't proc Combustion every 0.5 seconds in PvE, not even on a dummy. I completely understand that the DK may need nerfs to PvP performance but this Combustion nerf could seriously cripple the PvE sustain. I would have liked too see a more subtle nerf to Combustion and one or two specifically targeted at PvP.

[snip] Get some game knowledge of the game pls or test things to really be sure, but dont say what maybe other people say, to look good.

Here is just did one Heavy Attack, to proc two statuseffects at the same time:




Here the Answer, to your claim that you cant proc statuseffects in the time of 0.5 seconds general. And the Proof that you can proc Combustion all 0.5 seconds after follows as answer to Arthur.

Arthtur wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

Bodycounter wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

I am proccing 4 statuseffects in that time with one of my weaponskill's and lightattack. Pls make sure to know about combat mechanics before you comment on that.

Fact is that in PvP is no other class that can do such insane Dmg Pressure without worring about sustain at all. *** autopilot sustain kek.

And yet again, this is all about PvP again. You can't proc Combustion every 0.5 seconds in PvE, not even on a dummy. I completely understand that the DK may need nerfs to PvP performance but this Combustion nerf could seriously cripple the PvE sustain. I would have liked too see a more subtle nerf to Combustion and one or two specifically targeted at PvP.

You can procc multiple statuseffects on dummy in that time. There is no diffence between a Dummy and a Player in that case. Before i was going to use that many statuseffects for my PvP Build, i was testing everything intense on the dummy, like i do with all my builds. Instead of copy everything from guides. You should try it aswell, because you can find out a lot about the games and you can refute many statements made by ignorant people like you, what incompetence of game mechanics is unparalleled.

Show me the parse where u proc burning every 0.5s. Ppl say u cant proc it every 0.5s for a reason.
Yeah u proc 4 diffrent status effect at 1 time but that doesnt mean its u proc it every 0.5s xD and there is GCD which is 1s. And LA (0.7s CD) dont proc status effects. Enchants or sets do. Enchants have 4s cd. Sets for sure dont hit every 0.5s too.

Like the best u can do is to proc combustion every second, but that's with spamming Embers or Venomus which have 100% chance for procing burning/poison. Do i have to say what a waste of DMG this is in PvE?

And for my build:
I proc poison every 5s.
I proc burning every 2.5s (every 1.5s when i use whip and every 4-5s when i use dots).

While i get it its a problem in PvP, this change nerfs sustain too much. Even old charged with old passive was better than what we have on pts. And then DK had the worst sustain in the game. How should i call what we have on PTS? Created to suffer i guess.

You said that you can proc statuseffects just from Enchants and Sets. Thats totally wrong. you can proc it from:

1. Weapon enchantment's damage
2. Single-target direct attack ability
3. Area-of-effect abilities
4. Single-target damage-over-time abilities
5. Area-of-effect damage-over-time abilities
6. Destruction staff Light or Heavy attack

Second thing where you are totally wrong is that you cant proc burning every 0.5 Seconds. If it wouldnt be possible then the Ability tooltip of 0.5 second would be useless. And you need to proc burning to also proc Combustion.

Here the Proof:



1. First Combustion at 12.999 Seconds
2. Second Combustion 0.6 seconds later
3. Third Combustion 0,765seconds later

GG *** Autopilot Sustain Class. Im not sayin 3 Seconds is needed, but atleast 2 seconds.
Good Job Zenimax by nerfing the sustain of that broken class.

Omg.... Nobody is saying that u cant proc multiple status effects with 1 attack. And it wasnt 1 HA. It was 2 glyphs from DW. LA and HA dont proc status effects.

And to that procing burning every 0.5s GJ. Tho can u do full parse and not show only 2s? Every proof i used was from entire parse. I used average time between each proc. i even said when i proc it more and when less. I even said it was on StamDK. So do a full parse and then show me if u got at least 1 proc per s.

And i will say again. I know what procs status effects and what not. LA dont proc them. If u dont trust me then go check from someone popular.
When i said "And LA (0.7s CD) dont proc status effects. Enchants or sets do." i was talking about yours "Procing 4 status effects with 1 LA".

And im not saying that nerf isnt needed. Its just that nerf is overkill on stamDK.

That Point about the proc of multiple statuseffect proc at the same time, was an answer to somebody else who claimed that. I have no idea why you feel addressed about this xDDD. Good for you that you are aware of it.

Sorry i didnt expect that i had to clearify that the enchant procced the the effect. I thought thats something people should know after tutorial or a bit later. To proc them you have to do LA/HA/Weaponskills. Thats why i say that i proc them on HA. Would be great to not hang on those banal things.

[/quote]
Show me the parse where u proc burning every 0.5s. Ppl say u cant proc it every 0.5s for a reason.
Yeah u proc 4 diffrent status effect at 1 time but that doesnt mean its u proc it every 0.5s xD and there is GCD which is 1s. .
[/quote]

[snip] i dont know how to quote things from mid text kek. Nvm. thats what you wrote.
I dont need to trust you about anything, because im aware of all mechanics.
You said Enchants and Sets. Nothing else you said and I won't let that stand in the room, because other people who know less also babble around with half the things you count in. DK is able to proc combustion with all that and even while farting and everybody needs to know it, who reads that, because thats how broken DK is with that passive.

Nobody talks about Stam DK, because thats not the Broken Spec people are Upset about.

How Long my Parse is doesnt change the fact that you can proc Combustion all 0.5 Seconds, what you contradicted, because people say that and bla. I just wanted to proof that you and from whoever people you have those weird facts from, that you can proc combustion in every 0.5 seconds and also that there is no 1 second Global Cooldown like you claimed xD.
Im to lazy to post 10 Screenshot just because you wanna have a longer parse with the full list of combustion procs wich dont tell more facts of the possibility than this screen what i linked. Atleast now you know now that there is no Global Cooldown for Statuseffects or Combustion.
People tell you about the gcd and you just beliebe it kek. Dont hang on LA/HA procs, that never was the context enchants dont proc from looking at the dummy. What a joke that is haha

[edited for profanity bypass & to remove quote]

Bodycounter wrote: »

[snip] I have seen dozens and dozens of professional parses and none of them procs a status effect once every 0.5 seconds over the whole fight. Im still arguing from a PvE perspective but im not wasting more time at this point.

[snip]

First you say that more than one statuseffect cant proc at once. After i told you the opposite, you start to claim that combustion cant proc every 0,5 seconds.
Then i show you the prove of both via parse [snip] That context was about the possibility of multiple statuseffect proc at the same time and the possibility of combustion procs every 0,5s and nothing else. Not about raidparses and what not. [snip]

[snip]
Combustion with its up to 4k reg, is too strong and i am happy that passive gets butchered to up to 666 reg. Still more reg than other classes get with multiple passives together. [snip]

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]