MashmalloMan wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Yet another time crying on the forums lead to nerfs. How fun...The embers change I can get from a PvP perspective, but it'll hurt in PvE. And that combustion change is just pure *insert voluntary word of profanity here*.

It was pretty unanimous that DK was overperforming, even by DK mains. If you think this is just because of an over exaggeration you're kidding yourself.

Did we ask for 3s on combustion, no, but it's still a nuts passive that works through block.

As often is the case in these discussions the answer is easy, but supposedly impossible.
Balance PVP and PVE differently.

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Dk was finally fun again not having to fight sustain so much.

Worse sustain then before the buff . Guess I must use Charged now on my DK’s weapons unlike every other class that gets a choice. Charged was the problem not the sustain built into the class. Charged was over buffed.

Burning Embers should have been changed to 75% instead of 50% so the healing value would be the same as before the change in update 33. I agree the 100% was to much but now DK has been over nerfed in my opinion.

Coagulating Blood change, funny how no change was made to Necro’s cheap healing ghost in comparison or Sorcerer Critical Surge, granted you must crit which is not much or a go in PVP, but not really an issue in PVE.

All the Dk nerfs are strictly PVP reasons.

While talking about DK’s, think Molten Whip should also give you a stack of seething fury considering that nothing is meant to be spammable in the Ardent skill line.

The official theme for the DK is (“Fire and Fury”), guess we need to add “struggle more with sustain” also.

Stay safe

That's what Zos does, Sledgehammer Nerfs.

Personally I agree with nerfing Combustion..... but not that much.

Also I think Seething Fury makes Molten Whip a bit too strong, I would not nerf the damage but make it take longer to get to that big chunky whip.

Agreed, I think they just struggle to balance whip and its pretty novel mechanic. In my opinion they shouldn't have nerfed combustion to 3 secs maybe 2, make molten whip stack 5 times at 20% increase each time or just 3 times for a total of 60% increased damage.

The "lost" dot damage (see note below) from refreshing early to build molten whip stacks is weighed against the 33% increased whip damage (not going to factor the 75 wep/sp dmg per stack, too lazy).

Base build: Breton (-7% mag cost), 3 light (-6% mag cost), stage 3 vamp (+8% cost)
Base abilities:
- Whip (W): 2203 mag, 9094 damage
- Burning Embers (BE): 2851 mag, 4546 instant, 14896/14 secs, burning proc (1304 every 2 secs for 4 secs, 3 total hits). 23354 total damage
- Noxious Breath (NB): 3222 stam, 5906 instant, 11347/14 secs. 17253 total damage
- Flames of Oblivion (FOO): 2073 mag, 7045 every 5 secs, 4 total hits. 28180 total damage (single target)

Assuming the standard start of combat>Volatile Armor> Degen>FOO>Nox Breath>BE>Whip (3stacks). You now have 12/14 seconds of burning embers left, 11/15 seconds of FOO and 10/14 seconds of Nox Breath. Do you refresh them to build whip stacks? It took me about 1.5 seconds to land noxious, BE and FOO (give or take a tenth of a second for travel time for FOO).

If I do another round of NB>FOO>BE (presuming this all happens after 1-2 seconds after the previous comb) I "lost":

38% of the damage from NB (1-(10769/17253)=0.38). 1- (dmg done already (instant +3 dot ticks(so cast between 8-10 secs left))/ total damage).
50% of the damage from FOO (1-(14090/28180)=0.5). 1- 2 dot ticks(so cast between 5-10 secs)/total damage.
36% of the damage from BE (1-(14842/23354)=0.36). 1- (instant+ 3 dot ticks + all 3 dot ticks of burning)/total damage.

*When I say "lost" I'm using it in terms of efficiency.

Currently BE being use every 2 secs, ends up doing 11410 damage for 1851 mag (6.2 dmg:1 mag ratio) + 1 molten whip stack 3031 dmg, so effectively 7.8dmg : 1 mag ratio. Whip spam ends up at 9094 dmg for 2203 mag (4.1 dmg: mag ratio). Even with all that "lost" damage it still is front loaded enough to make up for it.

Yeah... bye bye.

As someone who only PVPs during Midyear Mayhem and to level my supports' skill lines to 9, nerfs like these make me immediately look at PVP complaints for their cause. But if the argument is that magdk is also overpowered in PVE(which it definitely is very strong) then necro needs to be nerfed too. A top necro is going to outperform a top magdk. I don't play magdk much, but I've always had a strong appreciation for their playstyle and aesthetics, and I don't think they should be nerfed to the ground like this. Balance them better, sure, but don't destroy the class again.

Can anyone explain the healing changes in Coagulating Blood? Whats ''true value rather than additive value''?

Aldoss wrote: »

All these people blaming pvpers for nerfs again...

Look at the logs. You're flat wrong! DKs are the masters of eso this patch in both PvP AND PvE and if you can't see that, then you probably spent this entire patch getting carried by the class and not actually getting better at the game.

"No one builds into sustain in pvp"

What did I just read? Dks are running around this patch with 500 regen and spamming whip, FoO, and coag like it's their job.

Nerfing charged does nothing but bring other classes down below dk. I'm using a charged frost staff on my front bar for my PvP magden. As if magdens need more nerfs...

Nerfing combustion was the only way. You might have less sustain than before, but you also have way more choices and different functioning skills than before. Whip is a 20k+ tooltip! If you want to keep that, deal with the sustain issues and murder people less. If you want to balance that out, go find some sustain and drop your damage output. No one should get all of it at the same time while other classes struggle.

Also, buff magdens. What is taking so long?!

Combustion wasnt nerfed enough 10 sec cd is the bare minimun of nerf dmg and healing on dk is also to strong even after patch

GetAgrippa wrote: »

Lailaamell wrote: »

Combustion wasnt nerfed enough 10 sec cd is the bare minimun of nerf dmg and healing on dk is also to strong even after patch

Just say you want DKs deleted from the game.

For Reals.


You would recover more than double just by standing still with a 10s CD

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

It's an endless merry-go-round of buff nef buff nerf buff nerf nerf nerf.

Wasn't all their spreadsheets and standardization supposed to put an end to this nonsense?

Zenimax have the tools and the resources to balance PvE and PvP separately. Battle Spirit being an obvious expression of this. I'm sure it's not simple, but they can decide how much effort they put in.

PvPers and PvEers should not be at each others throat about class balance, they should be aiming their sights at the developers, respectfully of course.

Templars are in a dire state in PvE, but any buff they get will get a scream out of the PvP crowd. So what's the plan there? It's on the devs to work it out. Lot of people just straight up walking away from some classes. They aren't worth the time.

Maybe it’s a push to the new one bar mythic and it’s major heroism.

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

another class gutted due to pvp

Dk wiil now be forced to the charged trait to gain more ressourse lowering their damage to still be the worse at regen.

I don't think this is a bad thing. DK has too much damage in pvp and pve so if they finally have to make decisions like other classes, then the nerf has achieved what it was supposed to? Perhaps it's more nuanced than expected when a mere sustain nerf actually translates to a damage nerf.

Running charged is a class synergy you can do, it's a choice you have others classes may not. It's by no means a necessity anymore. As a Sorc I would also like to run charged, but I have no passive synergy with it like DK and Warden do. It's not a choice I have.

I don't like the way they go about changes like this. What needs to happen is more incremental changes instead of just rash throw at the dart board or what i like to call "zos math."

C'mon guys stop just chucking numbers at things and with massive jumps. You ruin sets, classes, skills by making huge moves like this everytime.

Small movements 0.5s too much okay lets try 1s, nope still too long okay 2s.
Like it really not chill the way numbers are just chucked at something in hopes it'll shut people up.

It needs to be felt in gameplay not everything works on paper the way it does in the game or the real world.

Aldoss wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

As someone who only PVPs during Midyear Mayhem and to level my supports' skill lines to 9, nerfs like these make me immediately look at PVP complaints for their cause. But if the argument is that magdk is also overpowered in PVE(which it definitely is very strong) then necro needs to be nerfed too. A top necro is going to outperform a top magdk. I don't play magdk much, but I've always had a strong appreciation for their playstyle and aesthetics, and I don't think they should be nerfed to the ground like this. Balance them better, sure, but don't destroy the class again.

Stop fanning the flames against PvPers. This is so easy to prove wrong.

Tell me what you see here on top dps PvE logs:

Warden is top dog and must be nerfed, lol.

Serious DK was good no doubt about that but the change to the extra damage from Engulfing Flames changed from 10% to 6% is a pretty big nerf in of itself since almost all of DK's damage is fire. ZOS should have first just tried this one change for a patch and if not enough of a reduction then adjust it some more rather than take the fun out of playing a DK and fighting the sustain game. No one enjoyed the Morrowind era when everyone struggled with sustain.

I just wish ZOS would have found a better way then take the nerf hammer to sustain which in turn takes fun out of playing ESO. Fun and enjoyment is why we play videogames, not to be frustrated.


Stay safe

Dk doesn't over perform at all in PvP and is in line with other classes. The nerfs to it are absurd and the only things that should be getting nerfed are Necro's damage mitigation and resto staff healing( mutagen and morphs). Anybody who thinks DK over performs in PvP obviously doesn't play at a high level or know how the class works actually works.

@Galiferno here are the top dps numbers for all vRG HM prog bosses currently:

Oaxiltso


Bahsei


Xalvakka


I'll happily admit that this isn't full proof, but vRG is the newest trial and one that all the elite PvE prog groups are running on a consistent and serious basis. There's a reason why they're comprised so heavily of magdks.