Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Logging on my own account, the add ons are alleviating some of the annoyance this update is causing, but getting cumulative completion for kill quests in PVP and in other areas of the game is really making me cringe. I was looking forwards to completing them on certain characters =_= Unfortunately parking my alts so that could be done wasn't an option for me as I need them for certain tasks.

The achievement journal just feels like an utter mess now, and it feels really weird to log on characters I haven't done certain things on, and seeing the journal complete. For me, it's just like "wow, this is useless." I get its great for some but without addons, its function is totally destroyed for me.

You know, people are saying that they feel "free to play on any character they want now" because the achievements they get are account wide, but right now, I don't feel free to play on an alt because now I have to pick and choose which character gets achievement credit and which doesn't.

Again, the addons are making this less painful and I thank the creators for them, I really, really do, but I still feel.. really icky logging in on characters and watching my achievement journal, which used to be an organized record of my accomplishments and my characters independent stories, basically turn into an indiscriminate, meaningless mush that's hard to determine anything from.

God this is wretched.

i think the "earned by" tooltip was entirely unnecessary to begin with and will probably just hide it with an addon some point down the road if it annoys me too much

to your point about: "because now I have to pick and choose which character gets achievement credit and which doesn't."
-if there was no "earned by" tooltip, would you have felt differently about this?

Raevenglass wrote: »

I liked having individual records for each character, complete with the dates I did things. I really have no desire to track my progress on an account wide level at all, even if I understand why others need it and like it. I could have lived with a system like that in GW2 or WoW however, where independent character tracking existed along side AWA.

I *STILL* don't understand why ZOS couldn't let us have both. AwA for those who wanted it - but individual tracking of characters for those of us who value that.

There was a solution that would have made everyone happy. That so seldom happens and they just ignored it along with everything else said in this "feedback" thread. Feedback implies someone is listening for more than just curse words and baiting.

They said it was to improve the database, it's in the Q&A for AwA. Regardless of whether we believe them or not, this is why they did not do both as they specifically pointed out that doing so would negate the whole point of it in the first place.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Logging on my own account, the add ons are alleviating some of the annoyance this update is causing, but getting cumulative completion for kill quests in PVP and in other areas of the game is really making me cringe. I was looking forwards to completing them on certain characters =_= Unfortunately parking my alts so that could be done wasn't an option for me as I need them for certain tasks.

The achievement journal just feels like an utter mess now, and it feels really weird to log on characters I haven't done certain things on, and seeing the journal complete. For me, it's just like "wow, this is useless." I get its great for some but without addons, its function is totally destroyed for me.

You know, people are saying that they feel "free to play on any character they want now" because the achievements they get are account wide, but right now, I don't feel free to play on an alt because now I have to pick and choose which character gets achievement credit and which doesn't.

Again, the addons are making this less painful and I thank the creators for them, I really, really do, but I still feel.. really icky logging in on characters and watching my achievement journal, which used to be an organized record of my accomplishments and my characters independent stories, basically turn into an indiscriminate, meaningless mush that's hard to determine anything from.

God this is wretched.

i think the "earned by" tooltip was entirely unnecessary to begin with and will probably just hide it with an addon some point down the road if it annoys me too much

to your point about: "because now I have to pick and choose which character gets achievement credit and which doesn't."
-if there was no "earned by" tooltip, would you have felt differently about this?

No, I would not. In fact, I'd even regard it as worse because that would have wiped my characters identities and the stories I have built for them through achievements entirely. I'm glad I can at least look at certain achievements no other character will ever get an see that I did them on certain characters because it has meaning for me in terms of both their story and my own personal accomplishments with that character. But, other than a few select achievements, the rest of my journal is a mess. I liked having individual records for each character, complete with the dates I did things. I really have no desire to track my progress on an account wide level at all, even if I understand why others need it and like it. I could have lived with a system like that in GW2 or WoW however, where independent character tracking existed along side AWA.

i wasnt talking about AWA as a whole (im very aware of your position from reading the other posts about it)

i was only talking about the part with "earned by" and "picking and choosing which character gets achievement credit"

if there was no "earned by" no individual character would be receiving any particular "credit", and hopefully this would alleviate issues with playing your characters since no particular character would be attributed to earning an achievement

(im excluding the AWA as a whole, since that is what happened, i know its not something you wanted nor do i think it was implemented in the most ideal way either, just taking lemons and making lemonade)

Thanks for clarifying, I totally get what you mean now. Lets see if I can explain why it doesn't really work for me a little better.

The removal of the tooltip still wouldn't make any difference for me personally. I would still favor doing a quest on one of my favorite characters first so that they are the character that was played while getting the achievement (even if they are not credited for it) rather than randomly playing a crafting mule, for example. It's more of a sentimental thing, really. I'd want that permanent record on my account to occur while playing certain characters, even if their name never appeared on it.

Before I didn't worry about casually playing a random character because nothing I did on them made a difference when it came to another character- their achievements/tracking had nothing to do with whether I could earn an achievement on my "main" for example. But now it's like, eh, I don't want to earn this on a random crafting mule that doesn't mean much to me, I want to earn it on a character that has importance to me. Even if their name wasn't on it, I'd still be deliberating which of my favorite characters would be the one to play through a quest first. I really liked everybody having their own thing.

I hope that answers your question? I realize the play style is probably something really particular to me and how I play characters/the sentiment I attribute to achievements. Its sort of a personal thing that has to do with the way I used to play as if the achievement log was a personal "journal" so for me it's like, "who gets to write in the journal, and who doesn't" now (even without a name being attached to the achievement) rather than everyone getting their own to "write" in, thus the pressure to pick and choose even without the name on the tooltip.

Apologies if I'm being at all unclear, I totally get that you know what my position is. My views on the tooltip are really deriving more from a place of emotional value/the desire to look at achievements and recall doing them on certain characters.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Logging on my own account, the add ons are alleviating some of the annoyance this update is causing, but getting cumulative completion for kill quests in PVP and in other areas of the game is really making me cringe. I was looking forwards to completing them on certain characters =_= Unfortunately parking my alts so that could be done wasn't an option for me as I need them for certain tasks.

The achievement journal just feels like an utter mess now, and it feels really weird to log on characters I haven't done certain things on, and seeing the journal complete. For me, it's just like "wow, this is useless." I get its great for some but without addons, its function is totally destroyed for me.

You know, people are saying that they feel "free to play on any character they want now" because the achievements they get are account wide, but right now, I don't feel free to play on an alt because now I have to pick and choose which character gets achievement credit and which doesn't.

Again, the addons are making this less painful and I thank the creators for them, I really, really do, but I still feel.. really icky logging in on characters and watching my achievement journal, which used to be an organized record of my accomplishments and my characters independent stories, basically turn into an indiscriminate, meaningless mush that's hard to determine anything from.

God this is wretched.

i think the "earned by" tooltip was entirely unnecessary to begin with and will probably just hide it with an addon some point down the road if it annoys me too much

to your point about: "because now I have to pick and choose which character gets achievement credit and which doesn't."
-if there was no "earned by" tooltip, would you have felt differently about this?

No, I would not. In fact, I'd even regard it as worse because that would have wiped my characters identities and the stories I have built for them through achievements entirely. I'm glad I can at least look at certain achievements no other character will ever get an see that I did them on certain characters because it has meaning for me in terms of both their story and my own personal accomplishments with that character. But, other than a few select achievements, the rest of my journal is a mess. I liked having individual records for each character, complete with the dates I did things. I really have no desire to track my progress on an account wide level at all, even if I understand why others need it and like it. I could have lived with a system like that in GW2 or WoW however, where independent character tracking existed along side AWA.

i wasnt talking about AWA as a whole (im very aware of your position from reading the other posts about it)

i was only talking about the part with "earned by" and "picking and choosing which character gets achievement credit"

if there was no "earned by" no individual character would be receiving any particular "credit", and hopefully this would alleviate issues with playing your characters since no particular character would be attributed to earning an achievement

(im excluding the AWA as a whole, since that is what happened, i know its not something you wanted nor do i think it was implemented in the most ideal way either, just taking lemons and making lemonade)

Thanks for clarifying, I totally get what you mean now. Lets see if I can explain why it doesn't really work for me a little better.

The removal of the tooltip still wouldn't make any difference for me personally. I would still favor doing a quest on one of my favorite characters first so that they are the character that was played while getting the achievement (even if they are not credited for it) rather than randomly playing a crafting mule, for example. It's more of a sentimental thing, really. I'd want that permanent record on my account to occur while playing certain characters, even if their name never appeared on it.

Before I didn't worry about casually playing a random character because nothing I did on them made a difference when it came to another character- their achievements/tracking had nothing to do with whether I could earn an achievement on my "main" for example. But now it's like, eh, I don't want to earn this on a random crafting mule that doesn't mean much to me, I want to earn it on a character that has importance to me. Even if their name wasn't on it, I'd still be deliberating which of my favorite characters would be the one to play through a quest first. I really liked everybody having their own thing.

I hope that answers your question? I realize the play style is probably something really particular to me and how I play characters/the sentiment I attribute to achievements. Its sort of a personal thing that has to do with the way I used to play as if the achievement log was a personal "journal" so for me it's like, "who gets to write in the journal, and who doesn't" now (even without a name being attached to the achievement) rather than everyone getting their own to "write" in, thus the pressure to pick and choose even without the name on the tooltip.

Apologies if I'm being at all unclear, I totally get that you know what my position is. My views on the tooltip are really deriving more from a place of emotional value/the desire to look at achievements and recall doing them on certain characters.

of course, i do see what you mean, although i believe a larger portion of this stems from AWA as a whole with the way that you want to play (earning the achievement on specific characters, but now will unlock it for every character instead of only the particular one)

since the AWA is already implemented, that part will never make you really happy with what is going on, but i figure removing the "earned by" tooltip would at least help a little bit because then you could just log in your toons and play and if say one of your mules earned a particular achievement accidentally through cumulative progress tracking, it would at least not show that they were the ones that earned it

the issues you have with the system overall would have been alleviated if they implemented the account wide achievement tracking like entirely differently (using collection menu instead of each characters journal tab to do it both ways)

Yes you are definitely right on multiple levels here, I agree with you completely. I actually also agree, now that I'm thinking about it, that if it really annoys me to see a mule earn something hiding the tool tip could be a solution via the addon that was made for it. I get what you were saying now. It wouldn't be my ideal choice but I can see that smoothing things over for some (as long as it's optional so those who like tooltips can keep them ) For now, though, I'm going to leave it as it is so I can still see certain special achievements. Maybe I'll figure out my own tracking system out of game as I think more about how to navigate this. I'm still thinking of doing physical DND like journals to appease my inner roleplayer.

peacenote wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Jimbru wrote: »

Speaking as a veteran player and tester of countless other games all the way back to UO and EQ, account wide achievements are just one of many features from other successful games that ESO is LONG overdue to adopt. ESO needs to learn from its competitors in terms of giving players the features and conveniences they want, in order to keep attracting and retaining new players. Otherwise, the game dies. And the way some of you are talking, I almost think you would rather have that than to have anything at all changed, much less improved. Because God forbid new players have a better, more gen pop friendly player experience than we did back in beta and early release. [snip]

If you are a hardcore roleplayer that wants to treat all of your characters as total individuals carrying out some kind of alternate existence for you, then do that; if there's not addons already to track your achievements individually by character, I'm sure there soon will be. But if you're like the casual majority that just wants to play the game on the character you feel like today without having to worry so much about what you do or don't have unlocked on a particular character, then account-wide achievements are a godsend.

Your post completely misrepresents every single sentiment in this thread regarding the real reasons why people are against AWA. It has nothing to do with the concept of "I had it hard so others should too." Not at all. Maybe for a few, it might, but there is far more at the heart of the matter than that.

Not only that, but you've also misrepresented many of the posters here, who were advocating for a BETTER version of AWA than what has been implemented on the PTS, along side a character journal for independent tracking purposes. Many of us were trying to present solutions that would make both work.

I'm not ashamed of trying to preserve my playstyle, nor should anyone else here be ashamed. You know why? Because I have every respect for the other play styles presented in this thread, including those that benefit AWA. And I know for a fact that so many of those that spoke up and did their best to attempt to sway ZOS also had respect for all the different types of play styles here.

I wanted a better version of AWA for people like you, and newer players, one that would preserve world continuity, ambiance, and make the zone guide function as it should for alts. I hoped for a version that would preserve independent character tracking, like so many popular games. This could have worked really well, as it does in many of the successful games you mention. Unfortunately, it doesn't work well at all, and from the looks of things, ZOS will not fix it.

At the 11th hour, all I can say now is, I'm sorry we couldn't convince ZOS to hold back on this update and give it the refinement it deserved, so that it truly could be something newer and older players would love. Instead, its so unprofessionally implemented that I find myself wondering how ZOS can possibly be going through with it. Its a mess that doesn't even compare to the achievement system in other games, and makes the whole game look sloppy. The lack of polish is...startling.

But no, no one in this thread should be ashamed for standing for what they're passionate about. Especially when so many were here testing AWA to try to make it better, even if they didn't want AWA at all, in order to solve the issues present with it. I'm proud of the efforts of so many posters here who did an amazing job not only developing solutions and attempting to present them, but also for their efforts in reminding us that we must be respectful of all play styles.

Don't ever be ashamed of defending what you love or let others bring you down because you did. (And yes, that includes those who wanted AWA- you deserve to be heard too) You're all amazing, and I learned so much from the information you all shared, from technical information, to moving personal stories.

In any case, The Planemeld is nigh. I'll see you folks on the other side, for those who choose to stay like me.

[edited to remove quote]

@ArchangelIsraphel ... I was very moved by your post. I gave you an awesome but really it deserves a reaction much greater than that. Agree x a million.

alberichtano wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Perhaps people care about the impact you falsely say doesn't exist?

I agree that the impact is minor -- people praising you for your accomplishments is most of what I notice. Besides, the last time I was praised for finishing a dungeon, it was one I'd completed on all 18 characters, and the time before that, it was for one I'd done on 14. (I know that because I keep a spreadsheet.) Personally, I'm much more concerned about tracking skyshards and other skill point opportunities.

But as I said, other people do care more about the pure accomplishment-credit side of things.

Gawd

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Perhaps people care about the impact you falsely say doesn't exist?

I agree that the impact is minor -- people praising you for your accomplishments is most of what I notice. Besides, the last time I was praised for finishing a dungeon, it was one I'd completed on all 18 characters, and the time before that, it was for one I'd done on 14. (I know that because I keep a spreadsheet.) Personally, I'm much more concerned about tracking skyshards and other skill point opportunities.

But as I said, other people do care more about the pure accomplishment-credit side of things.

Are NPCs praising you for dungeon and trial achievements, or are story achievements included? It kinda makes me want to delete all my alts to get rid of dungeon and trial achievements. I still don't understand how ZOS doesn't see this as broken.

Not sure that that would help... the achievements are still on your account even if you remove every last alt, I believe. You'd need to start a new account to get it all clean. But then, of course, you would have to buy all the nifty stuff you had again. Ooops.

I haven't logged in yet. I have a level 3 alt with zero achievements that I'm using to run my guild. I hate deleting eight years of history, and some of that history I can't get back like some of the older tutorials for new chars. Either that or just run all my toons through all the dungeons done in my achievements and then the world will make sense again. My main concern is the story achievements. I have specific stories in mind for my alts and don't want nonsense spouted at them for quests they never did and stories I don't plan to take them through.

Ah, I see. Not sure if that would work then, I suppose it should. But then, with all the bugs, who know...

I really hate this. To read people saying that they will erase years of gameplay and experiences... it hurts. It really pains me. And honestly, this is the last thing we need in a world already so full of grief and pain.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Logging on my own account, the add ons are alleviating some of the annoyance this update is causing, but getting cumulative completion for kill quests in PVP and in other areas of the game is really making me cringe. I was looking forwards to completing them on certain characters =_= Unfortunately parking my alts so that could be done wasn't an option for me as I need them for certain tasks.

The achievement journal just feels like an utter mess now, and it feels really weird to log on characters I haven't done certain things on, and seeing the journal complete. For me, it's just like "wow, this is useless." I get its great for some but without addons, its function is totally destroyed for me.

You know, people are saying that they feel "free to play on any character they want now" because the achievements they get are account wide, but right now, I don't feel free to play on an alt because now I have to pick and choose which character gets achievement credit and which doesn't.

Again, the addons are making this less painful and I thank the creators for them, I really, really do, but I still feel.. really icky logging in on characters and watching my achievement journal, which used to be an organized record of my accomplishments and my characters independent stories, basically turn into an indiscriminate, meaningless mush that's hard to determine anything from.

God this is wretched.

i think the "earned by" tooltip was entirely unnecessary to begin with and will probably just hide it with an addon some point down the road if it annoys me too much

to your point about: "because now I have to pick and choose which character gets achievement credit and which doesn't."
-if there was no "earned by" tooltip, would you have felt differently about this?

No, I would not. In fact, I'd even regard it as worse because that would have wiped my characters identities and the stories I have built for them through achievements entirely. I'm glad I can at least look at certain achievements no other character will ever get an see that I did them on certain characters because it has meaning for me in terms of both their story and my own personal accomplishments with that character. But, other than a few select achievements, the rest of my journal is a mess. I liked having individual records for each character, complete with the dates I did things. I really have no desire to track my progress on an account wide level at all, even if I understand why others need it and like it. I could have lived with a system like that in GW2 or WoW however, where independent character tracking existed along side AWA.

i wasnt talking about AWA as a whole (im very aware of your position from reading the other posts about it)

i was only talking about the part with "earned by" and "picking and choosing which character gets achievement credit"

if there was no "earned by" no individual character would be receiving any particular "credit", and hopefully this would alleviate issues with playing your characters since no particular character would be attributed to earning an achievement

(im excluding the AWA as a whole, since that is what happened, i know its not something you wanted nor do i think it was implemented in the most ideal way either, just taking lemons and making lemonade)

Thanks for clarifying, I totally get what you mean now. Lets see if I can explain why it doesn't really work for me a little better.

The removal of the tooltip still wouldn't make any difference for me personally. I would still favor doing a quest on one of my favorite characters first so that they are the character that was played while getting the achievement (even if they are not credited for it) rather than randomly playing a crafting mule, for example. It's more of a sentimental thing, really. I'd want that permanent record on my account to occur while playing certain characters, even if their name never appeared on it.

Before I didn't worry about casually playing a random character because nothing I did on them made a difference when it came to another character- their achievements/tracking had nothing to do with whether I could earn an achievement on my "main" for example. But now it's like, eh, I don't want to earn this on a random crafting mule that doesn't mean much to me, I want to earn it on a character that has importance to me. Even if their name wasn't on it, I'd still be deliberating which of my favorite characters would be the one to play through a quest first. I really liked everybody having their own thing.

I hope that answers your question? I realize the play style is probably something really particular to me and how I play characters/the sentiment I attribute to achievements. Its sort of a personal thing that has to do with the way I used to play as if the achievement log was a personal "journal" so for me it's like, "who gets to write in the journal, and who doesn't" now (even without a name being attached to the achievement) rather than everyone getting their own to "write" in, thus the pressure to pick and choose even without the name on the tooltip.

Apologies if I'm being at all unclear, I totally get that you know what my position is. My views on the tooltip are really deriving more from a place of emotional value/the desire to look at achievements and recall doing them on certain characters.

of course, i do see what you mean, although i believe a larger portion of this stems from AWA as a whole with the way that you want to play (earning the achievement on specific characters, but now will unlock it for every character instead of only the particular one)

since the AWA is already implemented, that part will never make you really happy with what is going on, but i figure removing the "earned by" tooltip would at least help a little bit because then you could just log in your toons and play and if say one of your mules earned a particular achievement accidentally through cumulative progress tracking, it would at least not show that they were the ones that earned it

the issues you have with the system overall would have been alleviated if they implemented the account wide achievement tracking like entirely differently (using collection menu instead of each characters journal tab to do it both ways)

Yes you are definitely right on multiple levels here, I agree with you completely. I actually also agree, now that I'm thinking about it, that if it really annoys me to see a mule earn something hiding the tool tip could be a solution via the addon that was made for it. I get what you were saying now. It wouldn't be my ideal choice but I can see that smoothing things over for some (as long as it's optional so those who like tooltips can keep them ) For now, though, I'm going to leave it as it is so I can still see certain special achievements. Maybe I'll figure out my own tracking system out of game as I think more about how to navigate this. I'm still thinking of doing physical DND like journals to appease my inner roleplayer.

i think the addon to hide the earned by portion would need to be updated to include all cases, right now i think it excludes achievements that were already completely prior to AWA and is mainly used for cumulative progress or composite meta achievements that you earned after AWA went live

i definitely would support an addon that just removed all "earned by" because i think it is completely unnecessary information that adds no value

alberichtano wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

"As part of the free base game update, we are excited to add account wide Achievements so an Achievement you earn on one character will be shown as complete on all of your characters."

I am not excited by this. I am devastated.

In the Q&A they said the most important part of AWA was being “performant” going forward. But they are spinning it as though the primary reason was to please the players.

Not a word about what’s been taken away. Nothing. Just the usual silence.

You know what, when you put it like that it feels like "good old" snake-oil salesmen. Promising health and virility, but never mentioning the side effects - which are pretty much all there is to snake-oils.

alberichtano wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

"As part of the free base game update, we are excited to add account wide Achievements so an Achievement you earn on one character will be shown as complete on all of your characters."

I am not excited by this. I am devastated.

In the Q&A they said the most important part of AWA was being “performant” going forward. But they are spinning it as though the primary reason was to please the players.

Not a word about what’s been taken away. Nothing. Just the usual silence.

You know what, when you put it like that it feels like "good old" snake-oil salesmen. Promising health and virility, but never mentioning the side effects - which are pretty much all there is to snake-oils.

The net effect is to shift the responsibility (or the blame) to the players themselves. ‘You wanted account wide achievements? Well, here ya go!’ So if players go, “Hey, wait a minute… there’s problems with this. This isn’t what I was expecting,” then they can’t blame ZOS, because ZOS was just providing what the players “have been asking for for years,” as was pointed out in the Q&A.

And that just makes ZOS sound very passive-aggressive and, well, mean.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

"As part of the free base game update, we are excited to add account wide Achievements so an Achievement you earn on one character will be shown as complete on all of your characters."

I am not excited by this. I am devastated.

In the Q&A they said the most important part of AWA was being “performant” going forward. But they are spinning it as though the primary reason was to please the players.

Not a word about what’s been taken away. Nothing. Just the usual silence.

You know what, when you put it like that it feels like "good old" snake-oil salesmen. Promising health and virility, but never mentioning the side effects - which are pretty much all there is to snake-oils.

The net effect is to shift the responsibility (or the blame) to the players themselves. ‘You wanted account wide achievements? Well, here ya go!’ So if players go, “Hey, wait a minute… there’s problems with this. This isn’t what I was expecting,” then they can’t blame ZOS, because ZOS was just providing what the players “have been asking for for years,” as was pointed out in the Q&A.

And that just makes ZOS sound very passive-aggressive and, well, mean.

And they could have avoided that by engaging in an active dialogue with us, as we’ve been asking for for months now. Instead, they were silent about it for weeks, then posted an official statement (one sided conversation), and then went back to silent mode again.

Reputation is very important to corporations. They will usually work hard to please all their customers, because word of mouth is one of their primary forms of advertising. If someone were to ask you to name some corporations that don’t care about their customers, you’d be hard pressed to come up with very many.

Just some food for thought.

They're slowly descending into the realm of a few of the more notorious gaming companies out there who translate and publish MMO's here in the west. Perhaps not quite as bad right now, but if they continue on their current path, they'll end up right up there on the "publishers to avoid list" along with the likes of them. Those companies also made a lot of empty promises and ripped out content players enjoyed and found useful. One in particular ripped the soul out of a once highly successful PVP/PVE MMO called AION by completely deleting content, questlines (literally ripped the main campaign ending right out of the game in favor of a really hollow story) , and four enormous zones in favor of implementing two narrow, limited zones that were totally hollow by comparison. That game is now surviving on life support and has been bleeding out players for years since. The straw that broke the camels back for me was when they made changes to the character creator itself that totally destroyed the appearance of my characters, then expected players to pay for vouchers to fix them.

The same company then proceeded to ruin another game that was highly successful on launch called Blade x Soul by altering content and pushing players towards the cash shop.

I guess that's part of why this entire thing has struck me on such a deep level, going through this kind of extreme loss when it comes to an mmo is hauntingly familiar to me, and when I started playing ESO, I never expected a company that seemed to care so much about story telling, lore, and character development to turn around and do something like this. But they did. And it feels like a bad sign.

Jaraal wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

"As part of the free base game update, we are excited to add account wide Achievements so an Achievement you earn on one character will be shown as complete on all of your characters."

I am not excited by this. I am devastated.

In the Q&A they said the most important part of AWA was being “performant” going forward. But they are spinning it as though the primary reason was to please the players.

Not a word about what’s been taken away. Nothing. Just the usual silence.

You know what, when you put it like that it feels like "good old" snake-oil salesmen. Promising health and virility, but never mentioning the side effects - which are pretty much all there is to snake-oils.

The net effect is to shift the responsibility (or the blame) to the players themselves. ‘You wanted account wide achievements? Well, here ya go!’ So if players go, “Hey, wait a minute… there’s problems with this. This isn’t what I was expecting,” then they can’t blame ZOS, because ZOS was just providing what the players “have been asking for for years,” as was pointed out in the Q&A.

And that just makes ZOS sound very passive-aggressive and, well, mean.

And they could have avoided that by engaging in an active dialogue with us, as we’ve been asking for for months now. Instead, they were silent about it for weeks, then posted an official statement (one sided conversation), and then went back to silent mode again.

Reputation is very important to corporations. They will usually work hard to please all their customers, because word of mouth is one of their primary forms of advertising. If someone were to ask you to name some corporations that don’t care about their customers, you’d be hard pressed to come up with very many.

Just some food for thought.

They're slowly descending into the realm of a few of the more notorious gaming companies out there who translate and publish MMO's here in the west. Perhaps not quite as bad right now, but if they continue on their current path, they'll end up right up there on the "publishers to avoid list" along with the likes of them. Those companies also made a lot of empty promises and ripped out content players enjoyed and found useful. One in particular ripped the soul out of a once highly successful PVP/PVE MMO called AION by completely deleting content, questlines (literally ripped the main campaign ending right out of the game in favor of a really hollow story) , and four enormous zones in favor of implementing two narrow, limited zones that were totally hollow by comparison. That game is now surviving on life support and has been bleeding out players for years since. The straw that broke the camels back for me was when they made changes to the character creator itself that totally destroyed the appearance of my characters, then expected players to pay for vouchers to fix them.

The same company then proceeded to ruin another game that was highly successful on launch called Blade x Soul by altering content and pushing players towards the cash shop.

I guess that's part of why this entire thing has struck me on such a deep level, going through this kind of extreme loss when it comes to an mmo is hauntingly familiar to me, and when I started playing ESO, I never expected a company that seemed to care so much about story telling, lore, and character development to turn around and do something like this. But they did. And it feels like a bad sign.

Sadly, I am not surprised. I kind of predicted it when news hit that MS was going to buy ZOS. In my (admittedly narrow) experience, games never turn out better after corporate purchases. The new mother corp wants profits, not somewhere to pour down money and resources. So while many thought that MS would revitalise the game, I thought the exact opposite. Now these are the first real changes since that buyout, so I may still be wrong, and MS may put me to shame, but I honestly very much doubt it.

"Eso will continue to be supported exactly as it was" (after the Microsoft acquisition.)

https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/1308029914768117760

Microsoft is taking a hands off approach. These decisions are all on the Zenimax management.