PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

dzugarueb17_ESO

I guess this is it, guys. I just logged my main and that autocompleted delves for all my alts. A sad day and a massive failure on all fronts by ZOS (the most important was - (lack of) communication).

I wont be playing Tamriel Once, and the only sane choice I have is to uninstall. All good things must come to an end I guess. These 8 years were amazing while it lasted. Good luck and have fun!

tonyblack

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Mallow

dzugarueb17_ESO wrote: »

I guess this is it, guys. I just logged my main and that autocompleted delves for all my alts. A sad day and a massive failure on all fronts by ZOS (the most important was - (lack of) communication).

I haven't logged in yet for this very reason. I know it's going to happen and probably better to just yank off the bandage, but ignorance is bliss...right?

RevJJ

I’m not even going to log in. I still have a shred of hope that people who don’t check the forums will be upset with the way it’s implemented and ZOS will make some changes. If they don’t… well then it’s been a fun two years.

dzugarueb17_ESO

tonyblack wrote: »

So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

In all other Elder Scrolls games when I press the New Game button I dont have half a map already done (painted white).

TESO could be replayed from scratch yesterday, painting all map from black to white once again. Today - its impossible. Today it ceased to be the Elder Scrolls game for me.

Kesstryl

Jimbru wrote: »

Guild Wars 2 takes the approach that almost everything on characters is shared -- bank, dyes, achievements, titles, etc. -- EXCEPT achievements related to map exploration and completion of the story. Those are unique to each character. So while all the background infrastructure type stuff is shared so you don't have to redevelop all of it on each character, each character still has their own unique story, re-discovering the world and playing through the story content. You could almost think of your characters as sort of their own mini-guild, sharing their base of operations but each on their own path. That's the system I think ESO should emulate.

This would have been preferable. I also think story and quest achievement should have stayed character bound and not become global. That's where most of the role play happens. That's where NPCs change dialogue trees and give random reactions to your character passing by get these things from. The game world should see each character as a unique individual, and for the most part the things that are bound to the hidden quest data each character has will continue to treat your chars as individuals. The parts that are bound to achievements that were not decoupled to the quest data will be heard by all alts across your account, and that is NOT ACCEPTABLE! It's so shoddy and sloppy that I refuse to play while those bugs persist.

SerafinaWaterstar

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

You don’t? Have you read this thread at all?

Even my post at the top of this page explains one issue:

This game does not have any other way of tracking character progress through the game except via Achievements.

Its not about being “pressured” to do it on many alts, its about removing the possibility to do so if one do chooses.

kringled_1

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

You lose out on the xp given per achievement. You lose out on quick respawns of delve bosses. The pressure to kill them on as many alts as possible exists only in your own head.

ArchangelIsraphel

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

tonyblack

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Kesstryl

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Besides trying to explain that some people ACTUALLY ENJOY THIS, I want to turn attention to achievements having impact on the world and character story. Did you know if you roll a level 3 alt, NPC dialogue and encounters will talk about all the things they never did because those NPCs are tied to achievements and not completed quests? Did you know some quests were achievement only and now can't be repeated on alts because you did them on one character? Don't talk to me about Achievements having no impact on the world and character story! This is the one sore spot in this whole thing that has infuriated me the most.

tonyblack

Kesstryl wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Besides trying to explain that some people ACTUALLY ENJOY THIS, I want to turn attention to achievements having impact on the world and character story. Did you know if you roll a level 3 alt, NPC dialogue and encounters will talk about all the things they never did because those NPCs are tied to achievements and not completed quests? Did you know some quests were achievement only and now can't be repeated on alts because you did them on one character? Don't talk to me about Achievements having no impact on the world and character story! This is the one sore spot in this whole thing that has infuriated me the most.

I said nothing about quests. My comments was about delves, dungeons and world bosses and achievements/tracking associated with them. And in those cases there are no impactful world changes or anything extra that worth separate tracking for each character.

ArchangelIsraphel

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

My post had nothing to do with incentive. It had to do with wanting convenient tracking on the zone map to show if my character had completed the boss/delve or not. Currently, I cant tell my main from my alts in terms of tracking for delves and world bosses so I can repeat them when I look at the zone guide. When achievements were removed, the ability to even know whether a WB was completed or not was also removed. Achievements along with the zone guide was the only way to track this. You cant possibly expect someone to recall whether or not they completed a delve or a boss on 18 alts?

The zone guide was linked to achievements for bosses and delves, the absence of them makes the zone guide non-functional. It isn't about the "reward". Its about recording a characters journey through the game.

As to whether completing these things has impact on a characters story and the world for a player is entirely subjective. You don't get to decide whether defeating a certain boss impacts someones personal story for their character or not.

ETA: Added to that, people wanting incentive via achievements to do an activity in game because it helps them keep a record of having done so, or because they enjoy the reward on multiple alts, is not a bad thing. I don't know where this mentality that "you should do it without being rewarded" comes from. I don't need a reward, but I like tracking my characters journey. Even so, there are those that DO like the reward, and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that play style. Its an activity they enjoy that gives them something else to do in the world. Not a thing wrong with it.

tonyblack

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

My post had nothing to do with incentive. It had to do with wanting convenient tracking on the zone map to show if my character had completed the boss/delve or not. Currently, I cant tell my main from my alts in terms of tracking for delves and world bosses so I can repeat them when I look at the zone guide. When achievements were removed, the ability to even know whether a WB was completed or not was also removed. Achievements along with the zone guide was the only way to track this. You cant possibly expect someone to recall whether or not they completed a delve or a boss on 18 alts?

The zone guide was linked to achievements for bosses and delves, the absence of them makes the zone guide non-functional. It isn't about the "reward". Its about recording a characters journey through the game.

As to whether completing these things has impact on a characters story and the world for a player is entirely subjective. You don't get to decide whether defeating a certain boss impacts someones personal story for their character or not.

The reason I struggle to understand why do you need tracking for those bosses on each character is there legit no changes in the game whether you beat certain delve/world boss or not. It’s not even subjective. Like quests reactions and interactions I can agree need some fixes. But tracking bosses? If you want to repeat them you can do it right now or you can ignore them. There is no difference either way only your enjoyment for fighting them all over again.

Kesstryl

tonyblack wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Besides trying to explain that some people ACTUALLY ENJOY THIS, I want to turn attention to achievements having impact on the world and character story. Did you know if you roll a level 3 alt, NPC dialogue and encounters will talk about all the things they never did because those NPCs are tied to achievements and not completed quests? Did you know some quests were achievement only and now can't be repeated on alts because you did them on one character? Don't talk to me about Achievements having no impact on the world and character story! This is the one sore spot in this whole thing that has infuriated me the most.

I said nothing about quests. My comments was about delves, dungeons and world bosses and achievements/tracking associated with them. And in those cases there are no impactful world changes or anything extra that worth separate tracking for each character.

I just bolded what you said. You did bring impact on world and character story into this.

alberichtano

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

My post had nothing to do with incentive. It had to do with wanting convenient tracking on the zone map to show if my character had completed the boss/delve or not. Currently, I cant tell my main from my alts in terms of tracking for delves and world bosses so I can repeat them when I look at the zone guide. When achievements were removed, the ability to even know whether a WB was completed or not was also removed. Achievements along with the zone guide was the only way to track this. You cant possibly expect someone to recall whether or not they completed a delve or a boss on 18 alts?

The zone guide was linked to achievements for bosses and delves, the absence of them makes the zone guide non-functional. It isn't about the "reward". Its about recording a characters journey through the game.

As to whether completing these things has impact on a characters story and the world for a player is entirely subjective. You don't get to decide whether defeating a certain boss impacts someones personal story for their character or not.

The reason I struggle to understand why do you need tracking for those bosses on each character is there legit no changes in the game whether you beat certain delve/world boss or not. It’s not even subjective. Like quests reactions and interactions I can agree need some fixes. But tracking bosses? If you want to repeat them you can do it right now or you can ignore them. There is no difference either way only your enjoyment for fighting them all over again.

You don't get it. Imagine re-starting Skyrim with a second character, and everything is marked as done. How would you keep track of what you have explored or not, where you have been? What places you have been to, what dungeons you had explored? You couldn't - and that is the issue here. Once you have done an area with one character, all other characters will have everything marked as completed, so you won't be able to tell what you have actually done or not.

FrancisCrawford

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Perhaps people care about the impact you falsely say doesn't exist?

I agree that the impact is minor -- people praising you for your accomplishments is most of what I notice. Besides, the last time I was praised for finishing a dungeon, it was one I'd completed on all 18 characters, and the time before that, it was for one I'd done on 14. (I know that because I keep a spreadsheet.) Personally, I'm much more concerned about tracking skyshards and other skill point opportunities.

But as I said, other people do care more about the pure accomplishment-credit side of things.

ArchangelIsraphel

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

My post had nothing to do with incentive. It had to do with wanting convenient tracking on the zone map to show if my character had completed the boss/delve or not. Currently, I cant tell my main from my alts in terms of tracking for delves and world bosses so I can repeat them when I look at the zone guide. When achievements were removed, the ability to even know whether a WB was completed or not was also removed. Achievements along with the zone guide was the only way to track this. You cant possibly expect someone to recall whether or not they completed a delve or a boss on 18 alts?

The zone guide was linked to achievements for bosses and delves, the absence of them makes the zone guide non-functional. It isn't about the "reward". Its about recording a characters journey through the game.

As to whether completing these things has impact on a characters story and the world for a player is entirely subjective. You don't get to decide whether defeating a certain boss impacts someones personal story for their character or not.

The reason I struggle to understand why do you need tracking for those bosses on each character is there legit no changes in the game whether you beat certain delve/world boss or not. It’s not even subjective. Like quests reactions and interactions I can agree need some fixes. But tracking bosses? If you want to repeat them you can do it right now or you can ignore them. There is no difference either way only your enjoyment for fighting them all over again.

It's simple. You can't see whether you did a boss the first time or not by looking at the zone guide, or know what your character has or has not done. It has nothing to do with changing the game or not, that's irrelevant. I'm not understanding why you aren't getting that people like having a useful tool that let's them know "hey, I didn't fight x boss on y character yet, let's go do that!" Some people like to clear the zone and visually see that they have completed a task. For them filling the zone guide is like having an additional "quest" to complete.

Yeah sure, I can go fight bosses on an alt, but I want to know which ones I haven't done yet rather than running around guessing. I now have no way of knowing what my character has and has not done without an add on. It makes a difference to those that like it because of that. They enjoy having the ability to track character progression through the map.

And frankly speaking it's silly to have the game treat a level 1 character as if they've already thwarted every boss in the game because the zone guide says they have.

Having tracking for delves being completed or not also is a way to let you know that there is a quest there that your character has not done.

I get you don't need it, but you play differently.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Well, it came and went. It is now live.
I prepped for this by running through all my alts, emptying their inventories, etc, and parked them.
I will have my main, my merchant toon who has never left the bank, and a BRAND NEW toon that is sitting in the cell in the tutorial, a complete ESO virgin.
I will log in to my main, then take my new character and go see just what is set as completed and what is not on a brand new Lv 1 alt.

BUT, it has gone WAY beyond issues of quests and titles and rewards and replayability and character individuality.

@ZOS_MattFiror , @ZOS_RichLambert , Pete Hines, ~
91 pages of feedback, 2700+ responses, 76,000 views, and not ONE WORD about our concerns since Feb 23rd.
At Global Reveal you told us how we have such a great community and how we, the players make ESO awesome and how important we are.
Thread upon thread about "Improving Communication".
And all we have gotten is being ignored and total radio silence.

It is because of this lack of consideration, lack of respect, lack of TRULEY caring about you player base, that has me heartbroken not only about all my characters that are now just "tools" in the game of ESO~ Tamriel Once", but the lack of involvement and feedback from the management who just do us lip service, make promises, tell us you care, but still ignore this MAJOR issue with not just long term players, but Add-On Creators, Forum Contributors, Streamers, and those who have been a huge part of ESO have been ignored. It's just feels like a slap in the face.

So, I will log in today, see for my self what has been fixed or not, and be there for my guildies who will be blindsided by these changes to how they play ESO. I will still log in once or twice a week to hire a trader and take care of guild hall because I feel more of a responsibility to my guildmates than ZoS does to us.

87 months of uninterrupted subscription, 12.5K hrs of game play. Every bit of swag, merch, etc. But your eternal silence and refusal to interact with the community that you claim to care about is the final straw with me. Even if you fix EVERY bug and problem in game, it's too little too late. My sub expires on the 25th and for the first time in 8 years I am debating renewing it.

After today, playing ESO is like having a date with your Ex, it might be fun, but the love is gone.
So sad.

Kesstryl

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Perhaps people care about the impact you falsely say doesn't exist?

I agree that the impact is minor -- people praising you for your accomplishments is most of what I notice. Besides, the last time I was praised for finishing a dungeon, it was one I'd completed on all 18 characters, and the time before that, it was for one I'd done on 14. (I know that because I keep a spreadsheet.) Personally, I'm much more concerned about tracking skyshards and other skill point opportunities.

But as I said, other people do care more about the pure accomplishment-credit side of things.

Gawd

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Perhaps people care about the impact you falsely say doesn't exist?

I agree that the impact is minor -- people praising you for your accomplishments is most of what I notice. Besides, the last time I was praised for finishing a dungeon, it was one I'd completed on all 18 characters, and the time before that, it was for one I'd done on 14. (I know that because I keep a spreadsheet.) Personally, I'm much more concerned about tracking skyshards and other skill point opportunities.

But as I said, other people do care more about the pure accomplishment-credit side of things.

Are NPCs praising you for dungeon and trial achievements, or are story achievements included? It kinda makes me want to delete all my alts to get rid of dungeon and trial achievements. I still don't understand how ZOS doesn't see this as broken.

alberichtano

Kesstryl wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Perhaps people care about the impact you falsely say doesn't exist?

I agree that the impact is minor -- people praising you for your accomplishments is most of what I notice. Besides, the last time I was praised for finishing a dungeon, it was one I'd completed on all 18 characters, and the time before that, it was for one I'd done on 14. (I know that because I keep a spreadsheet.) Personally, I'm much more concerned about tracking skyshards and other skill point opportunities.

But as I said, other people do care more about the pure accomplishment-credit side of things.

Gawd

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Perhaps people care about the impact you falsely say doesn't exist?

I agree that the impact is minor -- people praising you for your accomplishments is most of what I notice. Besides, the last time I was praised for finishing a dungeon, it was one I'd completed on all 18 characters, and the time before that, it was for one I'd done on 14. (I know that because I keep a spreadsheet.) Personally, I'm much more concerned about tracking skyshards and other skill point opportunities.

But as I said, other people do care more about the pure accomplishment-credit side of things.

Are NPCs praising you for dungeon and trial achievements, or are story achievements included? It kinda makes me want to delete all my alts to get rid of dungeon and trial achievements. I still don't understand how ZOS doesn't see this as broken.

Not sure that that would help... the achievements are still on your account even if you remove every last alt, I believe. You'd need to start a new account to get it all clean. But then, of course, you would have to buy all the nifty stuff you had again. Ooops.

Kesstryl

alberichtano wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Perhaps people care about the impact you falsely say doesn't exist?

I agree that the impact is minor -- people praising you for your accomplishments is most of what I notice. Besides, the last time I was praised for finishing a dungeon, it was one I'd completed on all 18 characters, and the time before that, it was for one I'd done on 14. (I know that because I keep a spreadsheet.) Personally, I'm much more concerned about tracking skyshards and other skill point opportunities.

But as I said, other people do care more about the pure accomplishment-credit side of things.

Gawd

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Perhaps people care about the impact you falsely say doesn't exist?

I agree that the impact is minor -- people praising you for your accomplishments is most of what I notice. Besides, the last time I was praised for finishing a dungeon, it was one I'd completed on all 18 characters, and the time before that, it was for one I'd done on 14. (I know that because I keep a spreadsheet.) Personally, I'm much more concerned about tracking skyshards and other skill point opportunities.

But as I said, other people do care more about the pure accomplishment-credit side of things.

Are NPCs praising you for dungeon and trial achievements, or are story achievements included? It kinda makes me want to delete all my alts to get rid of dungeon and trial achievements. I still don't understand how ZOS doesn't see this as broken.

Not sure that that would help... the achievements are still on your account even if you remove every last alt, I believe. You'd need to start a new account to get it all clean. But then, of course, you would have to buy all the nifty stuff you had again. Ooops.

I haven't logged in yet. I have a level 3 alt with zero achievements that I'm using to run my guild. I hate deleting eight years of history, and some of that history I can't get back like some of the older tutorials for new chars. Either that or just run all my toons through all the dungeons done in my achievements and then the world will make sense again. My main concern is the story achievements. I have specific stories in mind for my alts and don't want nonsense spouted at them for quests they never did and stories I don't plan to take them through. That kind of immersion breaking is going too far for me.

I'm still considering leaving ESO for good. I already dropped my sub and it ended last week.

alberichtano

Kesstryl wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Perhaps people care about the impact you falsely say doesn't exist?

I agree that the impact is minor -- people praising you for your accomplishments is most of what I notice. Besides, the last time I was praised for finishing a dungeon, it was one I'd completed on all 18 characters, and the time before that, it was for one I'd done on 14. (I know that because I keep a spreadsheet.) Personally, I'm much more concerned about tracking skyshards and other skill point opportunities.

But as I said, other people do care more about the pure accomplishment-credit side of things.

Gawd

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Consider a comparison with Steam Achievements on Skyrim.

You can get the achievement for "completing the Dark Brotherhood quest storyline".

If you start a second character, you still have that Achievement - but the quest storyline, because it is remembered separately, is still incomplete.

So, on that second character, you might choose to destroy the Brotherhood instead, and get the Achievement for that.

Now you have both Achievements. Even if you delete one or both characters. But the characters exist(ed) in separate instances, separate timelines, you aren't in a state where you have both destroyed the DB AND completed the questline on any specific given character.

And when you start a third character, and decide that THIS time you really are going to play a pure caster-type mage and not end up converting it into yet another stealth archer after the first three quests... You still have the Achievements, which are global and account-wide, BUT, your actual quest progress starts off at the beginning.

Account-wide achievements are good. Account-wide COMPLETION is bad. Completion - of any quest line, or side quest, or even individual features such as Dolmens, WBs, Dungeons, Delves - SHOULD BE DIVORCED FROM ACHIEVEMENTS.

The opportunity to complete quests on different characters is one thing, but all achievements for killing delve, dungeon and world bosses should be account wide and i’m glad it’s that way on live. The is no lore, dialogues or anything extra for beating them multiple times. You should not be pressured to do it on as many alts as possible, there is dailies for that. So I really don’t see why it’s presented as a problem.

Imagine, for a moment, by a stretch of the imagination, that you have a favorite movie that you like watching more than once, but there are people in the world that don't want to feel pressured to watch movies more than once just because they own them. For some reason, these people feel that just because they bought a movie and its sitting there in their collection of movies, that they absolutely have to re-watch it simply because it's there, even though they don't want to. They think that they are being pressured to do something, when in reality, they aren't, and don't have to just because its there. The pressure to re-watch the movie is only coming from themselves.

Meanwhile there's another group that wants to re-watch the movie, because they really liked it! They don't feel pressured to do it at all, they think its great! But they also think that people who don't want to re-watch the movie, should just, you know, not re-watch it instead of pressuring themselves to do it just because the movie exists.

However, the group that feels pressure decides that because they feel they HAVE TO redo something when they don't want to, that NOBODY should be able to re-do it! Therefore a mandate goes out saying that you can never watch your favorite movie more than once again, because someone else felt that they were being pressured to re-watch it simply because it existed.

Is it not a problem that you cant re-watch your favorite movie any more because someone else decided for you that they didn't want re-watching movies to be a thing?

It's the same for delves and world bosses. People who enjoyed doing them over wanted the tracking for it, and on top of it all, its pretty much a sham because the new alt never completed the delve or world boss to begin with that a main already did.

I have every respect for the fact that you don't want to repeat this content, but the fact of the matter is, nothing and no one was ever forcing you to repeat it and taking that tracking away from others because some felt that the presence of an empty bar meant they "had to" do something is a bad choice all around. I have no desire to make you repeat this content, nor do I think you should if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean the tracking for it shouldn't exist for those who do.

I didn’t say I want to prevent someone to kill same bosses again. In fact, i said it because i do repeat same wb or delve dailies in spare times to farm motives and such. I just don’t find it appropriate to start making exemptions for them in form of character specific achievements in light of implementation of AWA. Why do you need additional incentive in form of separate achievements for tracking something that have no impact on the world or character story?

Perhaps people care about the impact you falsely say doesn't exist?

I agree that the impact is minor -- people praising you for your accomplishments is most of what I notice. Besides, the last time I was praised for finishing a dungeon, it was one I'd completed on all 18 characters, and the time before that, it was for one I'd done on 14. (I know that because I keep a spreadsheet.) Personally, I'm much more concerned about tracking skyshards and other skill point opportunities.

But as I said, other people do care more about the pure accomplishment-credit side of things.

Are NPCs praising you for dungeon and trial achievements, or are story achievements included? It kinda makes me want to delete all my alts to get rid of dungeon and trial achievements. I still don't understand how ZOS doesn't see this as broken.

Not sure that that would help... the achievements are still on your account even if you remove every last alt, I believe. You'd need to start a new account to get it all clean. But then, of course, you would have to buy all the nifty stuff you had again. Ooops.

I haven't logged in yet. I have a level 3 alt with zero achievements that I'm using to run my guild. I hate deleting eight years of history, and some of that history I can't get back like some of the older tutorials for new chars. Either that or just run all my toons through all the dungeons done in my achievements and then the world will make sense again. My main concern is the story achievements. I have specific stories in mind for my alts and don't want nonsense spouted at them for quests they never did and stories I don't plan to take them through.

Ah, I see. Not sure if that would work then, I suppose it should. But then, with all the bugs, who know...

I really hate this. To read people saying that they will erase years of gameplay and experiences... it hurts. It really pains me. And honestly, this is the last thing we need in a world already so full of grief and pain.

LoneStar2911

Kesstryl wrote: »

[snip]

I’ve given you a few awesomes because you’ve tried to be so helpful for this AwA stuff and I pretty much agree with everything you say.
Personally, I don’t give votes/ratings/responses/whatever unless they’re sincere.

[edited to remove quote]

Seminolegirl1992

Kesstryl wrote: »

[snip]

I think people are giving you awesomes because they agree with you. Me being one of them.

[edited to remove quote]

Kesstryl

LoneStar2911 wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

[snip]

I’ve given you a few awesomes because you’ve tried to be so helpful for this AwA stuff and I pretty much agree with everything you say.
Personally, I don’t give votes/ratings/responses/whatever unless they’re sincere.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

[snip]

I think people are giving you awesomes because they agree with you. Me being one of them.

Thank you, I appreciate that. I'm feeling bruised and salty over this whole thing, please forgive me. I'm not seeing clearly through all the anger and loss this is making me feel. And on top of Covid, the Russian war, and the rest of the world just being generally crappy right now, my ESO world just became crappy on top of it all.

[edited to remove quote]

Seminolegirl1992

Kesstryl wrote: »

LoneStar2911 wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

[snip]

I’ve given you a few awesomes because you’ve tried to be so helpful for this AwA stuff and I pretty much agree with everything you say.
Personally, I don’t give votes/ratings/responses/whatever unless they’re sincere.

Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

[snip]

I think people are giving you awesomes because they agree with you. Me being one of them.

Thank you, I appreciate that. I'm feeling bruised and salty over this whole thing, please forgive me. I'm not seeing clearly through all the anger and loss this is making me feel. And on top of Covid, the Russian war, and the rest of the world just being generally crappy right now, my ESO world just became crappy on top of it all.

Right there with you friend. They clearly don't listen to feedback and expect their admin (poor kevin) to pick up the pieces.

[edited to remove quote]

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

ArchangelIsraphel

My dad, in his 70's, who also plays ESO and knew about this change through me informing him as to what would happen, just patched and logged into his main/alts for the first time.

He's finding the implementation of AWA really confusing, and is feeling very disoriented by characters in the ambient world talking about how his alts did things that they didn't do. He knew that this would happen, as I told him it would, but he says it makes him constantly question what he actually did on his characters or not, as memory is a thing that he gets concerned about anyway given his age. He was pretty reliant on the zone guide and achievement system to remember where he left off when playing alternate characters. Addons are helping but can only do so much to alleviate the disorientation.

Feeling pretty bad for him and my mom, as the game has become a pretty confusing mess for them at the moment. Just another reason why I hope they sever the tie between achievements and the way the world responds to the character. They really love this game, and its part of how I bond with them in my adult life.

KMarble

SpiritKitten wrote: »

Let's not lose sight of one enormous truth: we are privileged to be able to play in an MMO at all. I grew up before the internet even existed. A lot of you seem to take this wonderous digital realm for granted. Please take a step back and see the larger picture.

I was 14 when I was first introduced to home computers. We spent a week in class learning the basics of coding, I then went on to learn FORTRAN. My main interest was in a completely different area, so I lost touch of anything computer-related until my mid 20's.

I've been fascinated with video games ever since I rediscovered computers. That doesn't mean I played all the games. I don't. In fact, I can count on one hand how many video games I've played my whole life.

I came across ESO when a lot was happening in my personal life. I normally don't play video games, I didn't care for MMOs, yet something called to me in this game, and here I am. Been playing non-stop since 2018. That something, btw, were the stories I could immerse myself in.

I never forgot that the game doesn't belong to me, that what I do while playing can influence other people, and that things will change. But I also never forgot my own value. I will not accept being taken for granted.

For all of those years I have been nothing but respectful and patient with anyone I come across - be it on the forum or in game. Changes in game I can accept and adapt, as I've been doing since I started playing ESO. Being treated like a nuisance and ignored, I cannot.

Will all the issues - known and unknown - be fixed in time? Judging by ZOS' track record, I doubt it. Are those in-game issues big enough for ME to stop playing the game? Probably not (yet). Is the way we were treated because of AWA a game changer? Absolutely.

I'm absolutely heartbroken to see so many good people leave and I'm livid that one more divide was created among players. We - the community - need each other more than ever.

Thanks to @code65536 and @silvereyes for the add ons, they'll help a lot. To the console players all I can say is that I'm sorry. Everybody in this thread and the one about the bugs tried the best we could to have a better version of AWA delivered.