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Account-Wide Achievements (Or why some ideas can be bad)

  • IrishOphidia
    IrishOphidia
    ✭✭✭
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    Clearly "earned by" having all the names is better. It's not even a question, it's just better.

    but on the other hand, I trust if someone has GH that if they say they have done it on their dk, 2 nightblades and sorc i'd beleive them. I mean, they have GH, why would they lie about more GH? The end game trifecta community isn't that big, people who make up what clears they have well ... word will get around.

    Likewise the achieve is nice, but are you doing it for that or to actually do it? I bet it's to prove to yourself that you can. I know I didn't get flawless conqueror on all my dps just for the achivement, that was the nice to have bit.

    Having multiples is more about proving your efficiency and validating what you’re trying to bring to the group. Just because someone did GH on their Nightblade in portal doesn’t mean they are efficient at tanking, healing, or even orb slaying. It’s more so about validating your role in the group.
  • KhajiitLivesMatter
    KhajiitLivesMatter
    ✭✭✭✭
    Hey, folks.

    As someone who is considering returning after a long break, I've had my eye on the PTS notes, and been listening to what some folks are saying, checking screenshots, etc.

    By and large, I actually agree with a lot of the direction Zos is taking here. But, as always, there's a sticky widget and Zos goofed pretty damn hard in a critical area.

    Overall, I think merging most achievements to an account-wide system is actually pretty solid! I'm sure it'll *** off hardcore completionists who want to get every. single. achievement. on every single toon, but for most of us, seems fine. Since I began in Morrowind, it always seemed the general population had one "main" toon they cared about achievements on, and everything else was whatever.

    Where this idea flops dead in the street is when it comes to end-game PVE. Two issues.

    1. Achievement recorded date/source is being tracked as the first toon you log into

    I am not currently on PTS, not downloading it. I'm waiting to see what people discover. However, from what I (and many others) can tell, in your achievement panel, let's say you have Gryphon Heart on five characters. Whichever you log into first will be the one "credited" with the achievement. Not your first source, but whichever you happen to log into first. This is goofy, but a small sin and one that people who like to track their individual character accomplishments don't love. I think this is passable, however, the next one...

    2. Trifecta Tracking

    This...this is an issue. Aside from the aforementioned problem, individual characters can now no longer track trifectas as far as I can tell. If I have Gryphon heart on Bob, Tom and Andy, it now means nothing if I go and acquire it on Cindy and Jimbo. There's no gain. For many end-game PVE players, the appeal of returning to older content was to push achievements on characters that did not previously have it. I personally brought four different tanks to four different Kyne's progs for this exact reason. I enjoyed the idea of "stacking" Trifectas, as do many in the end-game community.

    In fact, as I have been working on returning, several players I have spoken to are borderline ready to quit, or outright are quitting over this change, particularly the second aspect.

    I don't hate the idea. I think, by and large, it's a good change. But trifectas should be a "special" achievement. Let the title be shared. That's fine. That makes sense to show the world, "Hey, I did this thing". Nobody is arguing against that. But for the love of all things competitive and completion-y, do NOT track trifectas this way. You have a list of achievements this doesn't apply to. Trifectas need to be on this list, or you're going to lose even more end-game PVE players.

    Thanks for coming to my TED talk, or whatever.

    yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time

    Except we’re not only talking about trifectas lol and I can assure you that there’s more people with trifectas than you think, but this also affects PvP players, RPers, and PvErs so your approach is a bit flawed.

    a while back there was a statistic that only LESS than 1% completet vAA (not hm)
    so saying that 0,1% have tripple achievment is already a very high guess its probably even lower

    but anyway more players will get benefits from the change than the other players are losing
  • IrishOphidia
    IrishOphidia
    ✭✭✭
    Xebov wrote: »
    Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.

    Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.
    SeaUnicorn wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »

    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.

    Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
    Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....

    Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.
    Xebov wrote: »
    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.


    You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.

    You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.

    To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.
    Xebov wrote: »
    2. Trifecta Tracking

    You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.

    This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.

    Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.

    Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]

    [edited for profanity bypass]

    I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.

    We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.

    from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
    and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide

    I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.
  • IrishOphidia
    IrishOphidia
    ✭✭✭
    Hey, folks.

    As someone who is considering returning after a long break, I've had my eye on the PTS notes, and been listening to what some folks are saying, checking screenshots, etc.

    By and large, I actually agree with a lot of the direction Zos is taking here. But, as always, there's a sticky widget and Zos goofed pretty damn hard in a critical area.

    Overall, I think merging most achievements to an account-wide system is actually pretty solid! I'm sure it'll *** off hardcore completionists who want to get every. single. achievement. on every single toon, but for most of us, seems fine. Since I began in Morrowind, it always seemed the general population had one "main" toon they cared about achievements on, and everything else was whatever.

    Where this idea flops dead in the street is when it comes to end-game PVE. Two issues.

    1. Achievement recorded date/source is being tracked as the first toon you log into

    I am not currently on PTS, not downloading it. I'm waiting to see what people discover. However, from what I (and many others) can tell, in your achievement panel, let's say you have Gryphon Heart on five characters. Whichever you log into first will be the one "credited" with the achievement. Not your first source, but whichever you happen to log into first. This is goofy, but a small sin and one that people who like to track their individual character accomplishments don't love. I think this is passable, however, the next one...

    2. Trifecta Tracking

    This...this is an issue. Aside from the aforementioned problem, individual characters can now no longer track trifectas as far as I can tell. If I have Gryphon heart on Bob, Tom and Andy, it now means nothing if I go and acquire it on Cindy and Jimbo. There's no gain. For many end-game PVE players, the appeal of returning to older content was to push achievements on characters that did not previously have it. I personally brought four different tanks to four different Kyne's progs for this exact reason. I enjoyed the idea of "stacking" Trifectas, as do many in the end-game community.

    In fact, as I have been working on returning, several players I have spoken to are borderline ready to quit, or outright are quitting over this change, particularly the second aspect.

    I don't hate the idea. I think, by and large, it's a good change. But trifectas should be a "special" achievement. Let the title be shared. That's fine. That makes sense to show the world, "Hey, I did this thing". Nobody is arguing against that. But for the love of all things competitive and completion-y, do NOT track trifectas this way. You have a list of achievements this doesn't apply to. Trifectas need to be on this list, or you're going to lose even more end-game PVE players.

    Thanks for coming to my TED talk, or whatever.

    yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time

    Except we’re not only talking about trifectas lol and I can assure you that there’s more people with trifectas than you think, but this also affects PvP players, RPers, and PvErs so your approach is a bit flawed.

    a while back there was a statistic that only LESS than 1% completet vAA (not hm)
    so saying that 0,1% have tripple achievment is already a very high guess its probably even lower

    but anyway more players will get benefits from the change than the other players are losing

    You’d have to cite the statistic because it’s been done a few times, but the last time I personally looked at it was years ago which would make it irrelevant and non-applicable in this discussion.
  • KhajiitLivesMatter
    KhajiitLivesMatter
    ✭✭✭✭
    Hey, folks.

    As someone who is considering returning after a long break, I've had my eye on the PTS notes, and been listening to what some folks are saying, checking screenshots, etc.

    By and large, I actually agree with a lot of the direction Zos is taking here. But, as always, there's a sticky widget and Zos goofed pretty damn hard in a critical area.

    Overall, I think merging most achievements to an account-wide system is actually pretty solid! I'm sure it'll *** off hardcore completionists who want to get every. single. achievement. on every single toon, but for most of us, seems fine. Since I began in Morrowind, it always seemed the general population had one "main" toon they cared about achievements on, and everything else was whatever.

    Where this idea flops dead in the street is when it comes to end-game PVE. Two issues.

    1. Achievement recorded date/source is being tracked as the first toon you log into

    I am not currently on PTS, not downloading it. I'm waiting to see what people discover. However, from what I (and many others) can tell, in your achievement panel, let's say you have Gryphon Heart on five characters. Whichever you log into first will be the one "credited" with the achievement. Not your first source, but whichever you happen to log into first. This is goofy, but a small sin and one that people who like to track their individual character accomplishments don't love. I think this is passable, however, the next one...

    2. Trifecta Tracking

    This...this is an issue. Aside from the aforementioned problem, individual characters can now no longer track trifectas as far as I can tell. If I have Gryphon heart on Bob, Tom and Andy, it now means nothing if I go and acquire it on Cindy and Jimbo. There's no gain. For many end-game PVE players, the appeal of returning to older content was to push achievements on characters that did not previously have it. I personally brought four different tanks to four different Kyne's progs for this exact reason. I enjoyed the idea of "stacking" Trifectas, as do many in the end-game community.

    In fact, as I have been working on returning, several players I have spoken to are borderline ready to quit, or outright are quitting over this change, particularly the second aspect.

    I don't hate the idea. I think, by and large, it's a good change. But trifectas should be a "special" achievement. Let the title be shared. That's fine. That makes sense to show the world, "Hey, I did this thing". Nobody is arguing against that. But for the love of all things competitive and completion-y, do NOT track trifectas this way. You have a list of achievements this doesn't apply to. Trifectas need to be on this list, or you're going to lose even more end-game PVE players.

    Thanks for coming to my TED talk, or whatever.

    yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time

    Except we’re not only talking about trifectas lol and I can assure you that there’s more people with trifectas than you think, but this also affects PvP players, RPers, and PvErs so your approach is a bit flawed.

    a while back there was a statistic that only LESS than 1% completet vAA (not hm)
    so saying that 0,1% have tripple achievment is already a very high guess its probably even lower

    but anyway more players will get benefits from the change than the other players are losing

    You’d have to cite the statistic because it’s been done a few times, but the last time I personally looked at it was years ago which would make it irrelevant and non-applicable in this discussion.

    cant find it anylonger - but u said u looked at it to - sure it was years ago but i dont think the racio changed the much maybe now its 2% or 0,5% clear but it wont jump from less than 1% to 50% or something like that

    and u probably will agree with me if i say that only very few people of those who cleared vAA will actually get a tripple...

    therefore only a VERY small playerbase has this titles


  • KhajiitLivesMatter
    KhajiitLivesMatter
    ✭✭✭✭
    Xebov wrote: »
    Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.

    Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.
    SeaUnicorn wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »

    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.

    Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
    Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....

    Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.
    Xebov wrote: »
    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.


    You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.

    You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.

    To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.
    Xebov wrote: »
    2. Trifecta Tracking

    You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.

    This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.

    Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.

    Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]

    [edited for profanity bypass]

    I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.

    We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.

    from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
    and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide

    I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.

    sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind

    doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one

    so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects
  • Oliviander
    Oliviander
    ✭✭✭✭
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Saieden wrote: »

    yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time

    What about the majority that want to track dungeon clears, veteran or normal, on each character? Or zone completion? Or Grand Master Crafter? Or Black Market Mogul? Or players that RP altruists that have never gotten Murderer, Home Trespasser or Discerning Pilferer? It's not about trifectas, it's about character identity and being able to see the history of it.

    maybe we could do something all would be happy: just leave its as zos intended but if a character which did not earn the achivment himself get it than it gets marked and the date updatet or something like that

    but e.g. i dont want to do emperor 18x i can do it (did it twice) but just dont want to cause its a boring VERY long grind - after the change i can just show i did it - not with the char but in general which is more important - cause it shows that the player is capable of doing it maybe not the char but thats not the important thing

    So, you just want account-wide titles.

    We're arguing to keep our character achievements individual.

    So, put in a global tracker so you can see how your whole account is doing.
    Give titles based on the global tracker.
    Keep character achievements separate so that people can have replayability, can track quests, etc.

    Win-Win?

    Yes ! And it would be even better if the title would indicate the number of toons that have earned it.

    Like " Master Angler (18) " - Wouldn't that be great !! <3
  • IrishOphidia
    IrishOphidia
    ✭✭✭
    Hey, folks.

    As someone who is considering returning after a long break, I've had my eye on the PTS notes, and been listening to what some folks are saying, checking screenshots, etc.

    By and large, I actually agree with a lot of the direction Zos is taking here. But, as always, there's a sticky widget and Zos goofed pretty damn hard in a critical area.

    Overall, I think merging most achievements to an account-wide system is actually pretty solid! I'm sure it'll *** off hardcore completionists who want to get every. single. achievement. on every single toon, but for most of us, seems fine. Since I began in Morrowind, it always seemed the general population had one "main" toon they cared about achievements on, and everything else was whatever.

    Where this idea flops dead in the street is when it comes to end-game PVE. Two issues.

    1. Achievement recorded date/source is being tracked as the first toon you log into

    I am not currently on PTS, not downloading it. I'm waiting to see what people discover. However, from what I (and many others) can tell, in your achievement panel, let's say you have Gryphon Heart on five characters. Whichever you log into first will be the one "credited" with the achievement. Not your first source, but whichever you happen to log into first. This is goofy, but a small sin and one that people who like to track their individual character accomplishments don't love. I think this is passable, however, the next one...

    2. Trifecta Tracking

    This...this is an issue. Aside from the aforementioned problem, individual characters can now no longer track trifectas as far as I can tell. If I have Gryphon heart on Bob, Tom and Andy, it now means nothing if I go and acquire it on Cindy and Jimbo. There's no gain. For many end-game PVE players, the appeal of returning to older content was to push achievements on characters that did not previously have it. I personally brought four different tanks to four different Kyne's progs for this exact reason. I enjoyed the idea of "stacking" Trifectas, as do many in the end-game community.

    In fact, as I have been working on returning, several players I have spoken to are borderline ready to quit, or outright are quitting over this change, particularly the second aspect.

    I don't hate the idea. I think, by and large, it's a good change. But trifectas should be a "special" achievement. Let the title be shared. That's fine. That makes sense to show the world, "Hey, I did this thing". Nobody is arguing against that. But for the love of all things competitive and completion-y, do NOT track trifectas this way. You have a list of achievements this doesn't apply to. Trifectas need to be on this list, or you're going to lose even more end-game PVE players.

    Thanks for coming to my TED talk, or whatever.

    yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time

    Except we’re not only talking about trifectas lol and I can assure you that there’s more people with trifectas than you think, but this also affects PvP players, RPers, and PvErs so your approach is a bit flawed.

    a while back there was a statistic that only LESS than 1% completet vAA (not hm)
    so saying that 0,1% have tripple achievment is already a very high guess its probably even lower

    but anyway more players will get benefits from the change than the other players are losing

    You’d have to cite the statistic because it’s been done a few times, but the last time I personally looked at it was years ago which would make it irrelevant and non-applicable in this discussion.

    cant find it anylonger - but u said u looked at it to - sure it was years ago but i dont think the racio changed the much maybe now its 2% or 0,5% clear but it wont jump from less than 1% to 50% or something like that

    and u probably will agree with me if i say that only very few people of those who cleared vAA will actually get a tripple...

    therefore only a VERY small playerbase has this titles


    But again you’re assuming we’re ONLY talking about trials and that isn’t the case also vAA came out in 2014 and there’s a lot of people who simply don’t do them. I know a bunch of people that have multiple trifectas and have never stepped foot in the crag trials even once. However, my point extends beyond trial achievements and you seem to be focusing in on them.
  • IrishOphidia
    IrishOphidia
    ✭✭✭
    Xebov wrote: »
    Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.

    Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.
    SeaUnicorn wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »

    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.

    Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
    Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....

    Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.
    Xebov wrote: »
    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.


    You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.

    You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.

    To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.
    Xebov wrote: »
    2. Trifecta Tracking

    You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.

    This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.

    Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.

    Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]

    [edited for profanity bypass]

    I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.

    We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.

    from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
    and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide

    I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.

    sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind

    doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one

    so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects

    I’d argue the opposite. I know a lot of people with multiple Master Anglers. Like 3-4. I know a lot of people with multiple GHs, Godslayers, IRs. I know a bunch of people with multiple Emperor characters. The point you’re making is subjective to you from inside a vacuum. You can’t use ONLY your experiences to form a proper response to the issues being addressed. I don’t do dungeons because I personally find them boring, but I know there are a large amount of people who do and do them on multiple characters. There’s an entire discord server dedicated to them and there’s thousands of players in there. Almost 3500 to be exact and that’s just one server. You have to step out of your own bias and understand that things like this do affect a lot of people and there’s a lot of people who aren’t happy because they feel like their time and effort is being erased. We’re not saying the concept should be scrapped. We’re saying it should be refined and tuned to cater to communities uniquely.
  • IrishOphidia
    IrishOphidia
    ✭✭✭
    Xebov wrote: »
    Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.

    Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.
    SeaUnicorn wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »

    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.

    Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
    Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....

    Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.
    Xebov wrote: »
    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.


    You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.

    You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.

    To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.
    Xebov wrote: »
    2. Trifecta Tracking

    You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.

    This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.

    Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.

    Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]

    [edited for profanity bypass]

    I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.

    We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.

    from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
    and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide

    I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.

    sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind

    doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one

    so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects

    A great representation would be to go to the Twitter and Youtube polls where the results are vastly in disfavor of the system. So it’s not just a small amount of players who are upset about it. One of those polls had 95% of people who voted against the system. A Twitter poll had 67% against it. My point being that you’re trying to portray that only a small faction of players dislike this feature and that simply isn’t the case.
  • Mephit
    Mephit
    ✭✭✭✭
    Xebov wrote: »
    Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.

    Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.
    SeaUnicorn wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »

    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.

    Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
    Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....

    Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.
    Xebov wrote: »
    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.


    You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.

    You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.

    To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.
    Xebov wrote: »
    2. Trifecta Tracking

    You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.

    This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.

    Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.

    Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]

    [edited for profanity bypass]

    I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.

    We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.

    from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
    and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide

    I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.

    sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind

    doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one

    so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects

    I’d argue the opposite. I know a lot of people with multiple Master Anglers. Like 3-4. I know a lot of people with multiple GHs, Godslayers, IRs. I know a bunch of people with multiple Emperor characters. The point you’re making is subjective to you from inside a vacuum. You can’t use ONLY your experiences to form a proper response to the issues being addressed. I don’t do dungeons because I personally find them boring, but I know there are a large amount of people who do and do them on multiple characters. There’s an entire discord server dedicated to them and there’s thousands of players in there. Almost 3500 to be exact and that’s just one server. You have to step out of your own bias and understand that things like this do affect a lot of people and there’s a lot of people who aren’t happy because they feel like their time and effort is being erased. We’re not saying the concept should be scrapped. We’re saying it should be refined and tuned to cater to communities uniquely.

    Agree...

    I have two MAs. A third is close, which I may well have finished by now had I not stopped cos of this patch... and 3 other toons that I have made good progress on - I tend to do them by zone.

    I enjoy doing things on multiple toons, cos I'm here for the story, the RPG. I enjoy having to kill a bunch of mobs 60 times cos I get too tick it off on a new favourite toon.

    That's me, that's what I like doing. I enjoy chilling and ticking things off...

    I have never tried for a trifecta and have zero interest in all that stress
  • IrishOphidia
    IrishOphidia
    ✭✭✭
    Mephit wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »
    Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.

    Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.
    SeaUnicorn wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »

    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.

    Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
    Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....

    Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.
    Xebov wrote: »
    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.


    You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.

    You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.

    To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.
    Xebov wrote: »
    2. Trifecta Tracking

    You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.

    This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.

    Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.

    Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]

    [edited for profanity bypass]

    I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.

    We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.

    from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
    and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide

    I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.

    sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind

    doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one

    so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects

    I’d argue the opposite. I know a lot of people with multiple Master Anglers. Like 3-4. I know a lot of people with multiple GHs, Godslayers, IRs. I know a bunch of people with multiple Emperor characters. The point you’re making is subjective to you from inside a vacuum. You can’t use ONLY your experiences to form a proper response to the issues being addressed. I don’t do dungeons because I personally find them boring, but I know there are a large amount of people who do and do them on multiple characters. There’s an entire discord server dedicated to them and there’s thousands of players in there. Almost 3500 to be exact and that’s just one server. You have to step out of your own bias and understand that things like this do affect a lot of people and there’s a lot of people who aren’t happy because they feel like their time and effort is being erased. We’re not saying the concept should be scrapped. We’re saying it should be refined and tuned to cater to communities uniquely.

    Agree...

    I have two MAs. A third is close, which I may well have finished by now had I not stopped cos of this patch... and 3 other toons that I have made good progress on - I tend to do them by zone.

    I enjoy doing things on multiple toons, cos I'm here for the story, the RPG. I enjoy having to kill a bunch of mobs 60 times cos I get too tick it off on a new favourite toon.

    That's me, that's what I like doing. I enjoy chilling and ticking things off...

    I have never tried for a trifecta and have zero interest in all that stress

    My point exactly. There’s a guy that has gotten 32 Master Anglers lol. I’m sure he’s very unhappy.
  • KhajiitLivesMatter
    KhajiitLivesMatter
    ✭✭✭✭
    Xebov wrote: »
    Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.

    Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.
    SeaUnicorn wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »

    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.

    Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
    Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....

    Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.
    Xebov wrote: »
    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.


    You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.

    You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.

    To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.
    Xebov wrote: »
    2. Trifecta Tracking

    You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.

    This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.

    Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.

    Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]

    [edited for profanity bypass]

    I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.

    We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.

    from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
    and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide

    I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.

    sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind

    doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one

    so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects

    A great representation would be to go to the Twitter and Youtube polls where the results are vastly in disfavor of the system. So it’s not just a small amount of players who are upset about it. One of those polls had 95% of people who voted against the system. A Twitter poll had 67% against it. My point being that you’re trying to portray that only a small faction of players dislike this feature and that simply isn’t the case.

    I dont use twitter atall

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596364/would-you-prefer-account-wide-achievements/p1
    found this a few mins ago

    57% for it
    26% against
    15% mix

    =twice as much players want the system than dont want the system

    edit:typo
    Edited by KhajiitLivesMatter on February 1, 2022 4:37PM
  • Mephit
    Mephit
    ✭✭✭✭
    Mephit wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »
    Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.

    Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.
    SeaUnicorn wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »

    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.

    Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
    Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....

    Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.
    Xebov wrote: »
    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.


    You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.

    You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.

    To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.
    Xebov wrote: »
    2. Trifecta Tracking

    You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.

    This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.

    Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.

    Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]

    [edited for profanity bypass]

    I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.

    We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.

    from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
    and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide

    I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.

    sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind

    doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one

    so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects

    I’d argue the opposite. I know a lot of people with multiple Master Anglers. Like 3-4. I know a lot of people with multiple GHs, Godslayers, IRs. I know a bunch of people with multiple Emperor characters. The point you’re making is subjective to you from inside a vacuum. You can’t use ONLY your experiences to form a proper response to the issues being addressed. I don’t do dungeons because I personally find them boring, but I know there are a large amount of people who do and do them on multiple characters. There’s an entire discord server dedicated to them and there’s thousands of players in there. Almost 3500 to be exact and that’s just one server. You have to step out of your own bias and understand that things like this do affect a lot of people and there’s a lot of people who aren’t happy because they feel like their time and effort is being erased. We’re not saying the concept should be scrapped. We’re saying it should be refined and tuned to cater to communities uniquely.

    Agree...

    I have two MAs. A third is close, which I may well have finished by now had I not stopped cos of this patch... and 3 other toons that I have made good progress on - I tend to do them by zone.

    I enjoy doing things on multiple toons, cos I'm here for the story, the RPG. I enjoy having to kill a bunch of mobs 60 times cos I get too tick it off on a new favourite toon.

    That's me, that's what I like doing. I enjoy chilling and ticking things off...

    I have never tried for a trifecta and have zero interest in all that stress

    My point exactly. There’s a guy that has gotten 32 Master Anglers lol. I’m sure he’s very unhappy.

    Respect to that guy!! I did my first toon way back... before Arteum and the new Champ System... and damn that was a slog. Popping up that title back then was huge... sigh
  • kojou
    kojou
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    When your biggest compliant about account-wide achievements is that players will have less incentive to get them, then the problem is with the incentives to do the content not the account wide achievements.

    There should be enough incentive for doing the content on its own.
    Playing since beta...
  • Mephit
    Mephit
    ✭✭✭✭
    kojou wrote: »
    When your biggest compliant about account-wide achievements is that players will have less incentive to get them, then the problem is with the incentives to do the content not the account wide achievements.

    There should be enough incentive for doing the content on its own.

    The incentive to do them, is "the doing them on that character"... and not being able to do them (at character level) removes that incentive. Get it?

    This is really simple, I create a new toon and want to play the game over again... This is something I can do right now. This change will take that away, and remove that from existing characters that I have heavily invested in.

    I am different to you...
  • IrishOphidia
    IrishOphidia
    ✭✭✭
    Xebov wrote: »
    Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.

    Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.
    SeaUnicorn wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »

    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.

    Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
    Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....

    Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.
    Xebov wrote: »
    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.


    You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.

    You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.

    To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.
    Xebov wrote: »
    2. Trifecta Tracking

    You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.

    This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.

    Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.

    Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]

    [edited for profanity bypass]

    I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.

    We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.

    from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
    and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide

    I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.

    sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind

    doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one

    so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects

    A great representation would be to go to the Twitter and Youtube polls where the results are vastly in disfavor of the system. So it’s not just a small amount of players who are upset about it. One of those polls had 95% of people who voted against the system. A Twitter poll had 67% against it. My point being that you’re trying to portray that only a small faction of players dislike this feature and that simply isn’t the case.

    dont use twitter atall

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596364/would-you-prefer-account-wide-achievements/p1
    found this a few mins ago

    57% for it
    26% against
    15% mix

    =twice as much players want the system than dont want the system

    This mans just say don’t use Twitter at all? The whole conversation ZoS had on communication was based and gathered on a Twitter thread made by Gina and their decisions are being made using those discussions. Come on, bro. I can clearly see you’re smarter than that. That was just an ignorant comment.
  • IrishOphidia
    IrishOphidia
    ✭✭✭
    kojou wrote: »
    When your biggest compliant about account-wide achievements is that players will have less incentive to get them, then the problem is with the incentives to do the content not the account wide achievements.

    There should be enough incentive for doing the content on its own.

    I dont disagree that the reward system in ESO is severely lacking and those conversations are being had. However, we’re addressing a specific topic utilizing what’s currently present in game right now. As it stands, those are the only real incentive to replay the content. If I make a new character after this feature goes live, I will have literally no reason to play it outside of “Oh well I kind of enjoy playing a stamina templar.” Because every quest or achievement I’ve ever completed will be greyed out and completed on that new character upon creation. I.e if a player has completed ever achievement in the game, then made a new character, why play it? Every achievement is greyed out and completed on the new character. What’s the point of playing it?
  • Soulshine
    Soulshine
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    Frankly, citing any results about this issue in connection to a twitter poll or even one here shows nothing but a very small sample of opinions from an even smaller amount that decided to participate in it at the time they read it. That's all.

    As is, we all know there is a significantly larger percentage of players that are active in game than what is represented in this discussion and on these forums in general for any issue, so you are not going to see accurate representation for either viewpoint anyway.

    Facts are that any achievements earned by all chars on the account could certainly be treated differently within the tracking system they are trying to change.

    If a workable solution could be available, arguing that it shouldn't be considered because you personally don't have interest in individual character achievement tracking is your choice of course, but that doesn't make the concern posed irrelevant or anything else you want to label it. It's a valid question.

    There are plenty of different ways to implement showing different character accomplishments in the same content even with account wide achievement tracking put in place.

    All we have at the moment in the new system is the "earned by - name -" of the first character that did it, and date of the achievement from that character. That's it. I was on PTS yesterday and saw it.

    If it is going to be account wide, there could be all sorts of things available to still reflect individual role achievements on different classes, etc. to sustain incentives for people to go on and get them.

    One game I play offers character nameplate frames for example, as a reward for certain achievements that are rare. These could be done here, and the plates could be in connection to say tanking GH, or earning Emperor on a healer, etc. They could give a number next to the achievement, as someone else here already pointed out. Different mount rewards for a particular number of achievements in the same event, a special crafting tool or skill, an uniquely bonused fishing bait or food, etc. There are a LOT of possibilities here.

    Point is, the rewards we do get for getting challenges done are in a lot of ways already fairly lackluster, so watering them down even more to a one time name and date is not only pretty flat, it just diminishes further a system that could frankly stand more fanfare in the first place, not less.
  • IrishOphidia
    IrishOphidia
    ✭✭✭
    Also, that’s only maybe 600 people whereas some of those polls on YouTube/Twitter have 5-6k votes.
  • Skjaldbjorn
    Skjaldbjorn
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    Tra_Lalan wrote: »
    I understand that someone is feeling bad because he did some hard achievments on different toons and now its kinda going to a waste. (RIP the guy with 18 master anglers.)

    But, please don't give me all that [snip] that you are concerned about other players doing harder achivments, trifecta runs etc., because they will have it harder to get due the fact that less people will help them out.

    I am that player that you're trying to defend here, and here is my point of view: none of you will help me do a trifecta, I can do it only with players I know, and play with. With friends, and those friends wount care if they already have it or not. No end game player that I dont know is going to help me.

    I can't even do a vSS without linking an achivement that I have already done it - that basicaly sums up how the current state of endgame players "helping with achivments" look like.

    [edited for profanity bypass]

    I have something like 20 Gryphon Hearts on my account. Of those, at least ten were to help other players who did not have it. I literally joined a prog and helped them get GH, IR and another trifecta, can't remember which, all in the span of a couple months. I had nothing to gain. All my tanks had the achievements. Some of their raiders were experienced, but a lot were not.

    However, while that is the case for some, many do it solely to stack trifectas.

    I do get your perspective. The ESO end-game is incestuous as hell and I have complained about that for a long, long time. The ESO guild system never helped. It's trash and grossly harms end-game loyalty.

    But to sit there and say "none of you will help me do a trifecta" is patently false, because I was absolutely that person who did it with zero personal gain. When I got it on less played characters, it was with groups I trusted so it'd be easy. I didn't just "accidentally" get like 9 GHs on my DK tank.
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ive been kind of wanting them to do account wide achievements for quite a long time now

    i initially started trying to get as many achievement on my main as possible, however, there were some i just knew i wasnt going to be able to get with him

    this led to me just trying to get achievements on whatever toon was able to complete the content the best with their current build to earn the achievement at least once

    with titles i was just using whatever the "hardest" title was to get on that particular toon, instead of trying to be creative with them or theming because majority of the titles were on my main

    Now, would you ever redo those achievements again on another toon? In short, is there any replayability that exists for you for those achievements?

    Many of us, RPers who love the mainland stories or people who push trial clears, stay on this game for their unique ability to allow us to "re-earn" achievements. This has been removed from the game, removing many sectors of the playerbase's motivation to keep playing after many years of playing.

    i dont see why you cant still redo the requirements of those achievements, from the way i see it, your still doing the same content just on a different toon, to me it would be more about the enjoyment of the group of people you are running it with

    i personally havent gotten any of those trifecta achievements yet, but if i wanted a challenge i would still try to do them, even if i had already completed them (i may want to help a friend get it, or just because i wanted to do it again)

    to me the achievement should be a representation of the first time you accomplished something in the game, but not necessarily the entire reason you were running the content in the first place

    under your logic i should never even bother doing dungeon HMs for any dungeon even FG1 again, even though ive done that many many times and not just for undaunted pledges

    i mean no disrespect if you want to keep achievements tracked per character, i personally would have just been happy if they had touched up the achievement page to see how much you had completed in total and which characters had which achievement, but im also not unhappy with the way they are implementing it, as it wont change the way im going to play

    I get where you're coming from, but I think there are different barriers to entry for some of the things listed. Some of the achievements you listed take 6-9 hours of people pushing their peak performance for months while others take a few hours or weeks (a HM clear for dungeons).

    Respectfully, the point I was trying to make is we're now missing incentive to push for prestigious achievements a second time, achievements from trifectas to Master Angler to Master Crafters etc. This game uniquely gave you a reward for pushing these high investment achievements a second time (title unlocked, achievement unlocked and date) where other games don't recognize and reward that effort (ex. WoW). That now won't exist in ESO, pushing many of us away. Personally, I play this game to re-earn achievements on different toons, by class or role. I no longer have any incentive.

    I hope this better clarifies what I meant.

    yeah i mean in the example of master angler, i personally dont have any intention of trying to do that again even under our current system, as i disliked the fishing minigame lol

    if your specifically trying to aim for the achievement and enjoy seeing that achievement popup on completion of the content, i do see where you are coming from

    me personally most achievements are 1 and done, but that doesnt mean i wont participate in the content again (unless i actually dislike it and do it sparingly like fishing)
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • KhajiitLivesMatter
    KhajiitLivesMatter
    ✭✭✭✭
    Xebov wrote: »
    Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.

    Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.
    SeaUnicorn wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »

    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.

    Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
    Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....

    Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.
    Xebov wrote: »
    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.


    You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.

    You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.

    To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.
    Xebov wrote: »
    2. Trifecta Tracking

    You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.

    This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.

    Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.

    Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]

    [edited for profanity bypass]

    I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.

    We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.

    from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
    and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide

    I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.

    sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind

    doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one

    so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects

    A great representation would be to go to the Twitter and Youtube polls where the results are vastly in disfavor of the system. So it’s not just a small amount of players who are upset about it. One of those polls had 95% of people who voted against the system. A Twitter poll had 67% against it. My point being that you’re trying to portray that only a small faction of players dislike this feature and that simply isn’t the case.

    dont use twitter atall

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596364/would-you-prefer-account-wide-achievements/p1
    found this a few mins ago

    57% for it
    26% against
    15% mix

    =twice as much players want the system than dont want the system

    This mans just say don’t use Twitter at all? The whole conversation ZoS had on communication was based and gathered on a Twitter thread made by Gina and their decisions are being made using those discussions. Come on, bro. I can clearly see you’re smarter than that. That was just an ignorant comment.

    sry my fail i wanted to write I dont use twitter at all - so just my personal preference
  • IrishOphidia
    IrishOphidia
    ✭✭✭
    Xebov wrote: »
    Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.

    Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.
    SeaUnicorn wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »

    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.

    Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
    Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....

    Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.
    Xebov wrote: »
    Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.


    You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.

    You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.

    To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.
    Xebov wrote: »
    2. Trifecta Tracking

    You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.

    This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.

    Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.

    Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]

    [edited for profanity bypass]

    I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.

    We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.

    from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
    and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide

    I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.

    sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind

    doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one

    so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects

    A great representation would be to go to the Twitter and Youtube polls where the results are vastly in disfavor of the system. So it’s not just a small amount of players who are upset about it. One of those polls had 95% of people who voted against the system. A Twitter poll had 67% against it. My point being that you’re trying to portray that only a small faction of players dislike this feature and that simply isn’t the case.

    dont use twitter atall

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596364/would-you-prefer-account-wide-achievements/p1
    found this a few mins ago

    57% for it
    26% against
    15% mix

    =twice as much players want the system than dont want the system

    This mans just say don’t use Twitter at all? The whole conversation ZoS had on communication was based and gathered on a Twitter thread made by Gina and their decisions are being made using those discussions. Come on, bro. I can clearly see you’re smarter than that. That was just an ignorant comment.

    sry my fail i wanted to write I dont use twitter at all - so just my personal preference

    Ok gotcha. I was about to say whaaaaat?? All good. Honestly, the community just needs to suggest and present a compromised version of this system that is unique to each community.
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