The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
We will be performing maintenance for patch 10.0.2 on the PTS on Monday at 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC).
Account-Wide Achievements (Or why some ideas can be bad)
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katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭tbh, I'd rather have a class change token than shared achievements.
But I guess they make more $$$ selling the grindy parts piecemeal in the crown store (skyshards, skill lines, etc) for alts, than they would selling a single class change token.1 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭[snip]
I can see why this bothers some people. The achievement is the reward, but it really shouldn't be. That's on the developers to give a better reward for replaying content than titles.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 1, 2022 11:25AMI drink and I stream things.
Twitch: DrSlaughtr
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Facebook: DrSlaughtr
Twitter: DrSlaughtr
TikTok: DrSlaughtr2 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »[snip]
I can see why this bothers some people. The achievement is the reward, but it really shouldn't be. That's on the developers to give a better reward for replaying content than titles.
The thrill of accomplishing goals is actually a pretty solid reward, IMO.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 1, 2022 11:25AM"A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle4 -
Skjaldbjorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭MasterSpatula wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »[snip]
I can see why this bothers some people. The achievement is the reward, but it really shouldn't be. That's on the developers to give a better reward for replaying content than titles.
The thrill of accomplishing goals is actually a pretty solid reward, IMO.
It is. However, take WoW as an example. They release, on average, three raid-level content drops per year.
ESO releases one.
That means we need to get three times as much enjoyment, playthrough time and return from that trial.
And ESO trials are typically shorter as single releases than WoW's are individually.
So, yes. The ability to track/stack trifectas is VERY important to ESO's long-term health if it wants to have an end-game community.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 1, 2022 11:26AM1 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 1, 2022 11:32AM1 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭IrishOphidia wrote: »So it’s not just a “pinnacle” to some players. Pretty much every player who knows what Godslayer or Planesbreaker is gives those players respect for the level of gameplay required to achieve those titles.
So in short, like i said, players that care about them.IrishOphidia wrote: »To be honest your responses just sound like you’re very judgmental of the players capable of achieving those titles.
Iam not judgemental about the players, iam judgemental about the stance that this is so important that it should get special treatment. To me the game is a collection of different types of content and everyone can do whatever content they enjoy doing. If you enjoy trifectas cool, but that doesnt mean your achievment should be specially treated.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Basically, my perspective on this is super simple and completely reasonable;
1. Make titles character locked, but achievements are shared.
2. Make difficult achievements (trifectas, master angler, emperor, etc) character locked, but titles are shared.
Easy. Honestly, I think I'd rather even have titles locked and just share the achievements. Cleans up a top of garbage. Maybe put a badge or a star or something in the achievement panel denoting that character has it. Simple.
You draw a random line in the sand on what is difficult and what is not and what is important and what is not based on personal preference, thats not reasonable. It would just end up with even more dicussion why X is on one side or the other. There is logic behind doing it all or nothing.
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Tra_Lalan✭✭✭✭I understand that someone is feeling bad because he did some hard achievments on different toons and now its kinda going to a waste. (RIP the guy with 18 master anglers.)
But, please don't give me all that [snip] that you are concerned about other players doing harder achivments, trifecta runs etc., because they will have it harder to get due the fact that less people will help them out.
I am that player that you're trying to defend here, and here is my point of view: none of you will help me do a trifecta, I can do it only with players I know, and play with. With friends, and those friends wount care if they already have it or not. No end game player that I dont know is going to help me.
I can't even do a vSS without linking an achivement that I have already done it - that basicaly sums up how the current state of endgame players "helping with achivments" look like.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 1, 2022 11:34AM1 -
SerafinaWaterstar✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »[snip]
I can see why this bothers some people. The achievement is the reward, but it really shouldn't be. That's on the developers to give a better reward for replaying content than titles.
It’s not about the reward, it’s about having a record of progress if you play different characters - it’s pretty much the only way if doing so, especially on consoles. The map toggle is rather basic.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 1, 2022 11:27AM0 -
SerafinaWaterstar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I understand that someone is feeling bad because he did some hard achievments on different toons and now its kinda going to a waste. (RIP the guy with 18 master anglers.)
But, please don't give me all that [snip] that you are concerned about other players doing harder achivments, trifecta runs etc., because they will have it harder to get due the fact that less people will help them out.
I am that player that you're trying to defend here, and here is my point of view: none of you will help me do a trifecta, I can do it only with players I know, and play with. With friends, and those friends wount care if they already have it or not. No end game player that I dont know is going to help me.
I can't even do a vSS without linking an achivement that I have already done it - that basicaly sums up how the current state of endgame players "helping with achivments" look like.
Account-wide achievements will not stop endgame ‘toxicity’ or ‘gatekeeping’.
On console, no-one uses titles to show proficiency; if you want to join a prog trials group, you have to send a dps check from dummy humping. Is this not what is done on pc with your combat add-ons?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 1, 2022 11:34AM1 -
kind_hero✭✭✭✭✭
✭soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Then write on paper ?? i did let say 5 Trifecta in SG + 2 TTT + 3 IR etc... on one same char this mean i lose something ? no i play for fun ... and who cares how much trifecta you got... Then i guess when you play games like dark souls you buy 3 copies on 3 different steam account to have full 100% achiv on mage build + warrior build + archer build ??
This is only a game and if someone is saying he is losing something here i think he need to go outsite like rly...
One more thing before this "achiv" era which comes i think from xbox , ppl just enjoy playing the game. Now i think most of them lost the idea of playing the game...
What you fail to see is there is a different challenge each time you pick a new class/build or even after a patch.
I got my Stormproof title by doing vet Mael Arena on my alt because magicka sorc was at the time the easiest build to do so, and it was perfect for me to learn the arena on vet. But I haven't done it yet on my main. And it is still something I would like to do when will have the time, because the challenge is different. Getting that achievement was like a prize I set up for my char at a later date. Now if achievs merge, the motivation to go through all that pain which is vma for a player who isn't very good at pve, has decreased a lot, because the title and achievement will be available to all my chars without me doing all that again. Yes, I can replay the arena just for the sake of it, but it won't be the same.
In the beginning I was happy about the change, but to be honest, I was hoping for a different implementation and other achievements to be global. Like grinds and things that aren't related to character progress. And they don't make those global, because they want players to buy motifs for all their alts, preferably from the crown store. This is low... I don't like it.
Removing the progress of a char is very confusing and bad for replayability. Some quests won't even be available anymore, like players have already pointed out from the PTS experience. Why have Saviour of X zone on a char that hasn't even stepped in that place? And the achievement? But rune knowledge or recipes have to be researched from scratch??? Or books have to be hunted and read each time for each char? Some achievements could be global and that is why I welcomed the change. But not being able to see the dates each of my char completed certain achievements or still have to do it, is the worst part of this update. And this is why most people are upset.[PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter4 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Hey, folks.
As someone who is considering returning after a long break, I've had my eye on the PTS notes, and been listening to what some folks are saying, checking screenshots, etc.
By and large, I actually agree with a lot of the direction Zos is taking here. But, as always, there's a sticky widget and Zos goofed pretty damn hard in a critical area.
Overall, I think merging most achievements to an account-wide system is actually pretty solid! I'm sure it'll *** off hardcore completionists who want to get every. single. achievement. on every single toon, but for most of us, seems fine. Since I began in Morrowind, it always seemed the general population had one "main" toon they cared about achievements on, and everything else was whatever.
Where this idea flops dead in the street is when it comes to end-game PVE. Two issues.
1. Achievement recorded date/source is being tracked as the first toon you log into
I am not currently on PTS, not downloading it. I'm waiting to see what people discover. However, from what I (and many others) can tell, in your achievement panel, let's say you have Gryphon Heart on five characters. Whichever you log into first will be the one "credited" with the achievement. Not your first source, but whichever you happen to log into first. This is goofy, but a small sin and one that people who like to track their individual character accomplishments don't love. I think this is passable, however, the next one...
2. Trifecta Tracking
This...this is an issue. Aside from the aforementioned problem, individual characters can now no longer track trifectas as far as I can tell. If I have Gryphon heart on Bob, Tom and Andy, it now means nothing if I go and acquire it on Cindy and Jimbo. There's no gain. For many end-game PVE players, the appeal of returning to older content was to push achievements on characters that did not previously have it. I personally brought four different tanks to four different Kyne's progs for this exact reason. I enjoyed the idea of "stacking" Trifectas, as do many in the end-game community.
In fact, as I have been working on returning, several players I have spoken to are borderline ready to quit, or outright are quitting over this change, particularly the second aspect.
I don't hate the idea. I think, by and large, it's a good change. But trifectas should be a "special" achievement. Let the title be shared. That's fine. That makes sense to show the world, "Hey, I did this thing". Nobody is arguing against that. But for the love of all things competitive and completion-y, do NOT track trifectas this way. You have a list of achievements this doesn't apply to. Trifectas need to be on this list, or you're going to lose even more end-game PVE players.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk, or whatever.
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time0 -
TheImperfect✭✭✭✭✭
✭I know it's far from ideal but I use an addon for dungeons currently which tells me which characters did them and whether veteran or normal and any speed etc achievement. It's called Dungeon Tracker I think. Maybe there is something similar for fishing and trials?0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Clearly "earned by" having all the names is better. It's not even a question, it's just better.
but on the other hand, I trust if someone has GH that if they say they have done it on their dk, 2 nightblades and sorc i'd beleive them. I mean, they have GH, why would they lie about more GH? The end game trifecta community isn't that big, people who make up what clears they have well ... word will get around.
Likewise the achieve is nice, but are you doing it for that or to actually do it? I bet it's to prove to yourself that you can. I know I didn't get flawless conqueror on all my dps just for the achivement, that was the nice to have bit.1 -
Saieden✭✭✭✭✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
What about the majority that want to track dungeon clears, veteran or normal, on each character? Or zone completion? Or Grand Master Crafter? Or Black Market Mogul? Or players that RP altruists that have never gotten Murderer, Home Trespasser or Discerning Pilferer? It's not about trifectas, it's about character identity and being able to see the history of it.4 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
What about the majority that want to track dungeon clears, veteran or normal, on each character? Or zone completion? Or Grand Master Crafter? Or Black Market Mogul? Or players that RP altruists that have never gotten Murderer, Home Trespasser or Discerning Pilferer? It's not about trifectas, it's about character identity and being able to see the history of it.
maybe we could do something all would be happy: just leave its as zos intended but if a character which did not earn the achivment himself get it than it gets marked and the date updatet or something like that
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KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
What about the majority that want to track dungeon clears, veteran or normal, on each character? Or zone completion? Or Grand Master Crafter? Or Black Market Mogul? Or players that RP altruists that have never gotten Murderer, Home Trespasser or Discerning Pilferer? It's not about trifectas, it's about character identity and being able to see the history of it.
maybe we could do something all would be happy: just leave its as zos intended but if a character which did not earn the achivment himself get it than it gets marked and the date updatet or something like that
but e.g. i dont want to do emperor 18x i can do it (did it twice) but just dont want to cause its a boring VERY long grind - after the change i can just show i did it - not with the char but in general which is more important - cause it shows that the player is capable of doing it maybe not the char but thats not the important thing1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
What about the majority that want to track dungeon clears, veteran or normal, on each character? Or zone completion? Or Grand Master Crafter? Or Black Market Mogul? Or players that RP altruists that have never gotten Murderer, Home Trespasser or Discerning Pilferer? It's not about trifectas, it's about character identity and being able to see the history of it.
maybe we could do something all would be happy: just leave its as zos intended but if a character which did not earn the achivment himself get it than it gets marked and the date updatet or something like that
but e.g. i dont want to do emperor 18x i can do it (did it twice) but just dont want to cause its a boring VERY long grind - after the change i can just show i did it - not with the char but in general which is more important - cause it shows that the player is capable of doing it maybe not the char but thats not the important thing
So, you just want account-wide titles.
We're arguing to keep our character achievements individual.
So, put in a global tracker so you can see how your whole account is doing.
Give titles based on the global tracker.
Keep character achievements separate so that people can have replayability, can track quests, etc.
Win-Win?Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger61,215 achievement points2 -
SerafinaWaterstar✭✭✭✭✭
✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
What about the majority that want to track dungeon clears, veteran or normal, on each character? Or zone completion? Or Grand Master Crafter? Or Black Market Mogul? Or players that RP altruists that have never gotten Murderer, Home Trespasser or Discerning Pilferer? It's not about trifectas, it's about character identity and being able to see the history of it.
maybe we could do something all would be happy: just leave its as zos intended but if a character which did not earn the achivment himself get it than it gets marked and the date updatet or something like that
but e.g. i dont want to do emperor 18x i can do it (did it twice) but just dont want to cause its a boring VERY long grind - after the change i can just show i did it - not with the char but in general which is more important - cause it shows that the player is capable of doing it maybe not the char but thats not the important thing
For a lot of us it is the important thing. It is about the character and what it has or has not done.
Frankly, I don’t care about titles. If you want to show off whatever, fine.
But I care about achievements, especially on consoles, as they are the only way to map progress in the game. As I have done most things on my main, there are now parts/quests in this game that I am locked out of as it will show as completed - I won’t even have the option of doing it without the achievement as because it’s already been done, no other character can do it.0 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
What about the majority that want to track dungeon clears, veteran or normal, on each character? Or zone completion? Or Grand Master Crafter? Or Black Market Mogul? Or players that RP altruists that have never gotten Murderer, Home Trespasser or Discerning Pilferer? It's not about trifectas, it's about character identity and being able to see the history of it.
maybe we could do something all would be happy: just leave its as zos intended but if a character which did not earn the achivment himself get it than it gets marked and the date updatet or something like that
but e.g. i dont want to do emperor 18x i can do it (did it twice) but just dont want to cause its a boring VERY long grind - after the change i can just show i did it - not with the char but in general which is more important - cause it shows that the player is capable of doing it maybe not the char but thats not the important thing
So, you just want account-wide titles.
We're arguing to keep our character achievements individual.
So, put in a global tracker so you can see how your whole account is doing.
Give titles based on the global tracker.
Keep character achievements separate so that people can have replayability, can track quests, etc.
Win-Win?
yea sure
if u wrote the before i typicly dont read ALL posts just the first and last few ones cause everything else would take to much time0 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
What about the majority that want to track dungeon clears, veteran or normal, on each character? Or zone completion? Or Grand Master Crafter? Or Black Market Mogul? Or players that RP altruists that have never gotten Murderer, Home Trespasser or Discerning Pilferer? It's not about trifectas, it's about character identity and being able to see the history of it.
maybe we could do something all would be happy: just leave its as zos intended but if a character which did not earn the achivment himself get it than it gets marked and the date updatet or something like that
but e.g. i dont want to do emperor 18x i can do it (did it twice) but just dont want to cause its a boring VERY long grind - after the change i can just show i did it - not with the char but in general which is more important - cause it shows that the player is capable of doing it maybe not the char but thats not the important thing
For a lot of us it is the important thing. It is about the character and what it has or has not done.
Frankly, I don’t care about titles. If you want to show off whatever, fine.
But I care about achievements, especially on consoles, as they are the only way to map progress in the game. As I have done most things on my main, there are now parts/quests in this game that I am locked out of as it will show as completed - I won’t even have the option of doing it without the achievement as because it’s already been done, no other character can do it.
as far as i know the quests dont count as completet on chars where u did not do them - u just have the achievment for them0 -
SerafinaWaterstar✭✭✭✭✭
✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
What about the majority that want to track dungeon clears, veteran or normal, on each character? Or zone completion? Or Grand Master Crafter? Or Black Market Mogul? Or players that RP altruists that have never gotten Murderer, Home Trespasser or Discerning Pilferer? It's not about trifectas, it's about character identity and being able to see the history of it.
maybe we could do something all would be happy: just leave its as zos intended but if a character which did not earn the achivment himself get it than it gets marked and the date updatet or something like that
but e.g. i dont want to do emperor 18x i can do it (did it twice) but just dont want to cause its a boring VERY long grind - after the change i can just show i did it - not with the char but in general which is more important - cause it shows that the player is capable of doing it maybe not the char but thats not the important thing
For a lot of us it is the important thing. It is about the character and what it has or has not done.
Frankly, I don’t care about titles. If you want to show off whatever, fine.
But I care about achievements, especially on consoles, as they are the only way to map progress in the game. As I have done most things on my main, there are now parts/quests in this game that I am locked out of as it will show as completed - I won’t even have the option of doing it without the achievement as because it’s already been done, no other character can do it.
as far as i know the quests dont count as completet on chars where u did not do them - u just have the achievment for them
Certain ones apparently do. Not main quest but ones that involve collecting things, such as Relics of Summerset.
Now you may not want to replay that - fair enough - but this account wide change now apparently doesn’t even give you the option to do so, even without getting the achievement.
2 -
SerafinaWaterstar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please can someone see if you have Master Angler & all fish necessary caught - does it show all fish caught on other characters?0 -
IrishOphidia✭✭✭IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]
I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.
We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.2 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
What about the majority that want to track dungeon clears, veteran or normal, on each character? Or zone completion? Or Grand Master Crafter? Or Black Market Mogul? Or players that RP altruists that have never gotten Murderer, Home Trespasser or Discerning Pilferer? It's not about trifectas, it's about character identity and being able to see the history of it.
maybe we could do something all would be happy: just leave its as zos intended but if a character which did not earn the achivment himself get it than it gets marked and the date updatet or something like that
but e.g. i dont want to do emperor 18x i can do it (did it twice) but just dont want to cause its a boring VERY long grind - after the change i can just show i did it - not with the char but in general which is more important - cause it shows that the player is capable of doing it maybe not the char but thats not the important thing
So, you just want account-wide titles.
We're arguing to keep our character achievements individual.
So, put in a global tracker so you can see how your whole account is doing.
Give titles based on the global tracker.
Keep character achievements separate so that people can have replayability, can track quests, etc.
Win-Win?
I understand where you are coming from. The problem is that such ideas where posted in the past and ppl didnt want this compromise and instead wanted to keep it as it is. Now that the tables turned we see the ppl trying to establish the compromise. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on February 1, 2022 12:51PM0 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
What about the majority that want to track dungeon clears, veteran or normal, on each character? Or zone completion? Or Grand Master Crafter? Or Black Market Mogul? Or players that RP altruists that have never gotten Murderer, Home Trespasser or Discerning Pilferer? It's not about trifectas, it's about character identity and being able to see the history of it.
maybe we could do something all would be happy: just leave its as zos intended but if a character which did not earn the achivment himself get it than it gets marked and the date updatet or something like that
but e.g. i dont want to do emperor 18x i can do it (did it twice) but just dont want to cause its a boring VERY long grind - after the change i can just show i did it - not with the char but in general which is more important - cause it shows that the player is capable of doing it maybe not the char but thats not the important thing
For a lot of us it is the important thing. It is about the character and what it has or has not done.
Frankly, I don’t care about titles. If you want to show off whatever, fine.
But I care about achievements, especially on consoles, as they are the only way to map progress in the game. As I have done most things on my main, there are now parts/quests in this game that I am locked out of as it will show as completed - I won’t even have the option of doing it without the achievement as because it’s already been done, no other character can do it.
as far as i know the quests dont count as completet on chars where u did not do them - u just have the achievment for them
Certain ones apparently do. Not main quest but ones that involve collecting things, such as Relics of Summerset.
Now you may not want to replay that - fair enough - but this account wide change now apparently doesn’t even give you the option to do so, even without getting the achievement.
ok that shouldnt be the case - u should make a bug report for it0 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭IrishOphidia wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]
I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.
We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.
from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide0 -
IrishOphidia✭✭✭I understand that someone is feeling bad because he did some hard achievments on different toons and now its kinda going to a waste. (RIP the guy with 18 master anglers.)
But, please don't give me all that [snip] that you are concerned about other players doing harder achivments, trifecta runs etc., because they will have it harder to get due the fact that less people will help them out.
I am that player that you're trying to defend here, and here is my point of view: none of you will help me do a trifecta, I can do it only with players I know, and play with. With friends, and those friends wount care if they already have it or not. No end game player that I dont know is going to help me.
I can't even do a vSS without linking an achivement that I have already done it - that basicaly sums up how the current state of endgame players "helping with achivments" look like.
[edited for profanity bypass]
Having to link a vSS clear and having 5-6 Godslayers join a group to help 6 non-Godslayers get the trifecta are not the same thing. The number of fresh Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, and Dawnbringer groups are almost nonexistent. As in it literally never happens anymore. Those groups are relying on those with the experienced to aid in there completion. There are whole discords dedicated to this and rely on experienced raiders to keep them going. I’d love to tell you that all of them are great people who will help either way, but that is very rarely the case and most do it with incentive. Take away that incentive and those groups will struggle immensely and more than likely fail. Just because you think all your friends will help you get all of your trifectas does not mean it’s realistic.
If you’re admitting that you’re the player we’re trying to defend then that would mean you need trifectas and haven’t achieved them so you can’t really make the claim that no endgame player that you don’t know will help you get them. You’re trying to speak for others in a very small vacuum.3 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Removed so I don’t get banned .Edited by grannas211 on February 1, 2022 12:43PM0 -
IrishOphidia✭✭✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Hey, folks.
As someone who is considering returning after a long break, I've had my eye on the PTS notes, and been listening to what some folks are saying, checking screenshots, etc.
By and large, I actually agree with a lot of the direction Zos is taking here. But, as always, there's a sticky widget and Zos goofed pretty damn hard in a critical area.
Overall, I think merging most achievements to an account-wide system is actually pretty solid! I'm sure it'll *** off hardcore completionists who want to get every. single. achievement. on every single toon, but for most of us, seems fine. Since I began in Morrowind, it always seemed the general population had one "main" toon they cared about achievements on, and everything else was whatever.
Where this idea flops dead in the street is when it comes to end-game PVE. Two issues.
1. Achievement recorded date/source is being tracked as the first toon you log into
I am not currently on PTS, not downloading it. I'm waiting to see what people discover. However, from what I (and many others) can tell, in your achievement panel, let's say you have Gryphon Heart on five characters. Whichever you log into first will be the one "credited" with the achievement. Not your first source, but whichever you happen to log into first. This is goofy, but a small sin and one that people who like to track their individual character accomplishments don't love. I think this is passable, however, the next one...
2. Trifecta Tracking
This...this is an issue. Aside from the aforementioned problem, individual characters can now no longer track trifectas as far as I can tell. If I have Gryphon heart on Bob, Tom and Andy, it now means nothing if I go and acquire it on Cindy and Jimbo. There's no gain. For many end-game PVE players, the appeal of returning to older content was to push achievements on characters that did not previously have it. I personally brought four different tanks to four different Kyne's progs for this exact reason. I enjoyed the idea of "stacking" Trifectas, as do many in the end-game community.
In fact, as I have been working on returning, several players I have spoken to are borderline ready to quit, or outright are quitting over this change, particularly the second aspect.
I don't hate the idea. I think, by and large, it's a good change. But trifectas should be a "special" achievement. Let the title be shared. That's fine. That makes sense to show the world, "Hey, I did this thing". Nobody is arguing against that. But for the love of all things competitive and completion-y, do NOT track trifectas this way. You have a list of achievements this doesn't apply to. Trifectas need to be on this list, or you're going to lose even more end-game PVE players.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk, or whatever.
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
Except we’re not only talking about trifectas lol and I can assure you that there’s more people with trifectas than you think, but this also affects PvP players, RPers, and PvErs so your approach is a bit flawed.0 -
IrishOphidia✭✭✭TheImperfect wrote: »I know it's far from ideal but I use an addon for dungeons currently which tells me which characters did them and whether veteran or normal and any speed etc achievement. It's called Dungeon Tracker I think. Maybe there is something similar for fishing and trials?
Yes currently Pithka’s tracks each character.0