Clearly "earned by" having all the names is better. It's not even a question, it's just better.
but on the other hand, I trust if someone has GH that if they say they have done it on their dk, 2 nightblades and sorc i'd beleive them. I mean, they have GH, why would they lie about more GH? The end game trifecta community isn't that big, people who make up what clears they have well ... word will get around.
Likewise the achieve is nice, but are you doing it for that or to actually do it? I bet it's to prove to yourself that you can. I know I didn't get flawless conqueror on all my dps just for the achivement, that was the nice to have bit.
IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Hey, folks.
As someone who is considering returning after a long break, I've had my eye on the PTS notes, and been listening to what some folks are saying, checking screenshots, etc.
By and large, I actually agree with a lot of the direction Zos is taking here. But, as always, there's a sticky widget and Zos goofed pretty damn hard in a critical area.
Overall, I think merging most achievements to an account-wide system is actually pretty solid! I'm sure it'll *** off hardcore completionists who want to get every. single. achievement. on every single toon, but for most of us, seems fine. Since I began in Morrowind, it always seemed the general population had one "main" toon they cared about achievements on, and everything else was whatever.
Where this idea flops dead in the street is when it comes to end-game PVE. Two issues.
1. Achievement recorded date/source is being tracked as the first toon you log into
I am not currently on PTS, not downloading it. I'm waiting to see what people discover. However, from what I (and many others) can tell, in your achievement panel, let's say you have Gryphon Heart on five characters. Whichever you log into first will be the one "credited" with the achievement. Not your first source, but whichever you happen to log into first. This is goofy, but a small sin and one that people who like to track their individual character accomplishments don't love. I think this is passable, however, the next one...
2. Trifecta Tracking
This...this is an issue. Aside from the aforementioned problem, individual characters can now no longer track trifectas as far as I can tell. If I have Gryphon heart on Bob, Tom and Andy, it now means nothing if I go and acquire it on Cindy and Jimbo. There's no gain. For many end-game PVE players, the appeal of returning to older content was to push achievements on characters that did not previously have it. I personally brought four different tanks to four different Kyne's progs for this exact reason. I enjoyed the idea of "stacking" Trifectas, as do many in the end-game community.
In fact, as I have been working on returning, several players I have spoken to are borderline ready to quit, or outright are quitting over this change, particularly the second aspect.
I don't hate the idea. I think, by and large, it's a good change. But trifectas should be a "special" achievement. Let the title be shared. That's fine. That makes sense to show the world, "Hey, I did this thing". Nobody is arguing against that. But for the love of all things competitive and completion-y, do NOT track trifectas this way. You have a list of achievements this doesn't apply to. Trifectas need to be on this list, or you're going to lose even more end-game PVE players.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk, or whatever.
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
Except we’re not only talking about trifectas lol and I can assure you that there’s more people with trifectas than you think, but this also affects PvP players, RPers, and PvErs so your approach is a bit flawed.
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]
I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.
We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.
from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Hey, folks.
As someone who is considering returning after a long break, I've had my eye on the PTS notes, and been listening to what some folks are saying, checking screenshots, etc.
By and large, I actually agree with a lot of the direction Zos is taking here. But, as always, there's a sticky widget and Zos goofed pretty damn hard in a critical area.
Overall, I think merging most achievements to an account-wide system is actually pretty solid! I'm sure it'll *** off hardcore completionists who want to get every. single. achievement. on every single toon, but for most of us, seems fine. Since I began in Morrowind, it always seemed the general population had one "main" toon they cared about achievements on, and everything else was whatever.
Where this idea flops dead in the street is when it comes to end-game PVE. Two issues.
1. Achievement recorded date/source is being tracked as the first toon you log into
I am not currently on PTS, not downloading it. I'm waiting to see what people discover. However, from what I (and many others) can tell, in your achievement panel, let's say you have Gryphon Heart on five characters. Whichever you log into first will be the one "credited" with the achievement. Not your first source, but whichever you happen to log into first. This is goofy, but a small sin and one that people who like to track their individual character accomplishments don't love. I think this is passable, however, the next one...
2. Trifecta Tracking
This...this is an issue. Aside from the aforementioned problem, individual characters can now no longer track trifectas as far as I can tell. If I have Gryphon heart on Bob, Tom and Andy, it now means nothing if I go and acquire it on Cindy and Jimbo. There's no gain. For many end-game PVE players, the appeal of returning to older content was to push achievements on characters that did not previously have it. I personally brought four different tanks to four different Kyne's progs for this exact reason. I enjoyed the idea of "stacking" Trifectas, as do many in the end-game community.
In fact, as I have been working on returning, several players I have spoken to are borderline ready to quit, or outright are quitting over this change, particularly the second aspect.
I don't hate the idea. I think, by and large, it's a good change. But trifectas should be a "special" achievement. Let the title be shared. That's fine. That makes sense to show the world, "Hey, I did this thing". Nobody is arguing against that. But for the love of all things competitive and completion-y, do NOT track trifectas this way. You have a list of achievements this doesn't apply to. Trifectas need to be on this list, or you're going to lose even more end-game PVE players.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk, or whatever.
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
Except we’re not only talking about trifectas lol and I can assure you that there’s more people with trifectas than you think, but this also affects PvP players, RPers, and PvErs so your approach is a bit flawed.
a while back there was a statistic that only LESS than 1% completet vAA (not hm)
so saying that 0,1% have tripple achievment is already a very high guess its probably even lower
but anyway more players will get benefits from the change than the other players are losing
IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Hey, folks.
As someone who is considering returning after a long break, I've had my eye on the PTS notes, and been listening to what some folks are saying, checking screenshots, etc.
By and large, I actually agree with a lot of the direction Zos is taking here. But, as always, there's a sticky widget and Zos goofed pretty damn hard in a critical area.
Overall, I think merging most achievements to an account-wide system is actually pretty solid! I'm sure it'll *** off hardcore completionists who want to get every. single. achievement. on every single toon, but for most of us, seems fine. Since I began in Morrowind, it always seemed the general population had one "main" toon they cared about achievements on, and everything else was whatever.
Where this idea flops dead in the street is when it comes to end-game PVE. Two issues.
1. Achievement recorded date/source is being tracked as the first toon you log into
I am not currently on PTS, not downloading it. I'm waiting to see what people discover. However, from what I (and many others) can tell, in your achievement panel, let's say you have Gryphon Heart on five characters. Whichever you log into first will be the one "credited" with the achievement. Not your first source, but whichever you happen to log into first. This is goofy, but a small sin and one that people who like to track their individual character accomplishments don't love. I think this is passable, however, the next one...
2. Trifecta Tracking
This...this is an issue. Aside from the aforementioned problem, individual characters can now no longer track trifectas as far as I can tell. If I have Gryphon heart on Bob, Tom and Andy, it now means nothing if I go and acquire it on Cindy and Jimbo. There's no gain. For many end-game PVE players, the appeal of returning to older content was to push achievements on characters that did not previously have it. I personally brought four different tanks to four different Kyne's progs for this exact reason. I enjoyed the idea of "stacking" Trifectas, as do many in the end-game community.
In fact, as I have been working on returning, several players I have spoken to are borderline ready to quit, or outright are quitting over this change, particularly the second aspect.
I don't hate the idea. I think, by and large, it's a good change. But trifectas should be a "special" achievement. Let the title be shared. That's fine. That makes sense to show the world, "Hey, I did this thing". Nobody is arguing against that. But for the love of all things competitive and completion-y, do NOT track trifectas this way. You have a list of achievements this doesn't apply to. Trifectas need to be on this list, or you're going to lose even more end-game PVE players.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk, or whatever.
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
Except we’re not only talking about trifectas lol and I can assure you that there’s more people with trifectas than you think, but this also affects PvP players, RPers, and PvErs so your approach is a bit flawed.
a while back there was a statistic that only LESS than 1% completet vAA (not hm)
so saying that 0,1% have tripple achievment is already a very high guess its probably even lower
but anyway more players will get benefits from the change than the other players are losing
You’d have to cite the statistic because it’s been done a few times, but the last time I personally looked at it was years ago which would make it irrelevant and non-applicable in this discussion.
IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]
I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.
We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.
from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide
I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
What about the majority that want to track dungeon clears, veteran or normal, on each character? Or zone completion? Or Grand Master Crafter? Or Black Market Mogul? Or players that RP altruists that have never gotten Murderer, Home Trespasser or Discerning Pilferer? It's not about trifectas, it's about character identity and being able to see the history of it.
maybe we could do something all would be happy: just leave its as zos intended but if a character which did not earn the achivment himself get it than it gets marked and the date updatet or something like that
but e.g. i dont want to do emperor 18x i can do it (did it twice) but just dont want to cause its a boring VERY long grind - after the change i can just show i did it - not with the char but in general which is more important - cause it shows that the player is capable of doing it maybe not the char but thats not the important thing
So, you just want account-wide titles.
We're arguing to keep our character achievements individual.
So, put in a global tracker so you can see how your whole account is doing.
Give titles based on the global tracker.
Keep character achievements separate so that people can have replayability, can track quests, etc.
Win-Win?
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Hey, folks.
As someone who is considering returning after a long break, I've had my eye on the PTS notes, and been listening to what some folks are saying, checking screenshots, etc.
By and large, I actually agree with a lot of the direction Zos is taking here. But, as always, there's a sticky widget and Zos goofed pretty damn hard in a critical area.
Overall, I think merging most achievements to an account-wide system is actually pretty solid! I'm sure it'll *** off hardcore completionists who want to get every. single. achievement. on every single toon, but for most of us, seems fine. Since I began in Morrowind, it always seemed the general population had one "main" toon they cared about achievements on, and everything else was whatever.
Where this idea flops dead in the street is when it comes to end-game PVE. Two issues.
1. Achievement recorded date/source is being tracked as the first toon you log into
I am not currently on PTS, not downloading it. I'm waiting to see what people discover. However, from what I (and many others) can tell, in your achievement panel, let's say you have Gryphon Heart on five characters. Whichever you log into first will be the one "credited" with the achievement. Not your first source, but whichever you happen to log into first. This is goofy, but a small sin and one that people who like to track their individual character accomplishments don't love. I think this is passable, however, the next one...
2. Trifecta Tracking
This...this is an issue. Aside from the aforementioned problem, individual characters can now no longer track trifectas as far as I can tell. If I have Gryphon heart on Bob, Tom and Andy, it now means nothing if I go and acquire it on Cindy and Jimbo. There's no gain. For many end-game PVE players, the appeal of returning to older content was to push achievements on characters that did not previously have it. I personally brought four different tanks to four different Kyne's progs for this exact reason. I enjoyed the idea of "stacking" Trifectas, as do many in the end-game community.
In fact, as I have been working on returning, several players I have spoken to are borderline ready to quit, or outright are quitting over this change, particularly the second aspect.
I don't hate the idea. I think, by and large, it's a good change. But trifectas should be a "special" achievement. Let the title be shared. That's fine. That makes sense to show the world, "Hey, I did this thing". Nobody is arguing against that. But for the love of all things competitive and completion-y, do NOT track trifectas this way. You have a list of achievements this doesn't apply to. Trifectas need to be on this list, or you're going to lose even more end-game PVE players.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk, or whatever.
yea sry dude but for the majority in eso which is 99,9% who dont have a tripple achievement its only an improvent so i can understand why u dont like it but i think u have to take one for the team this time
Except we’re not only talking about trifectas lol and I can assure you that there’s more people with trifectas than you think, but this also affects PvP players, RPers, and PvErs so your approach is a bit flawed.
a while back there was a statistic that only LESS than 1% completet vAA (not hm)
so saying that 0,1% have tripple achievment is already a very high guess its probably even lower
but anyway more players will get benefits from the change than the other players are losing
You’d have to cite the statistic because it’s been done a few times, but the last time I personally looked at it was years ago which would make it irrelevant and non-applicable in this discussion.
cant find it anylonger - but u said u looked at it to - sure it was years ago but i dont think the racio changed the much maybe now its 2% or 0,5% clear but it wont jump from less than 1% to 50% or something like that
and u probably will agree with me if i say that only very few people of those who cleared vAA will actually get a tripple...
therefore only a VERY small playerbase has this titles
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]
I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.
We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.
from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide
I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.
sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind
doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one
so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]
I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.
We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.
from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide
I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.
sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind
doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one
so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects
IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]
I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.
We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.
from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide
I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.
sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind
doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one
so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects
I’d argue the opposite. I know a lot of people with multiple Master Anglers. Like 3-4. I know a lot of people with multiple GHs, Godslayers, IRs. I know a bunch of people with multiple Emperor characters. The point you’re making is subjective to you from inside a vacuum. You can’t use ONLY your experiences to form a proper response to the issues being addressed. I don’t do dungeons because I personally find them boring, but I know there are a large amount of people who do and do them on multiple characters. There’s an entire discord server dedicated to them and there’s thousands of players in there. Almost 3500 to be exact and that’s just one server. You have to step out of your own bias and understand that things like this do affect a lot of people and there’s a lot of people who aren’t happy because they feel like their time and effort is being erased. We’re not saying the concept should be scrapped. We’re saying it should be refined and tuned to cater to communities uniquely.
IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]
I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.
We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.
from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide
I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.
sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind
doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one
so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects
I’d argue the opposite. I know a lot of people with multiple Master Anglers. Like 3-4. I know a lot of people with multiple GHs, Godslayers, IRs. I know a bunch of people with multiple Emperor characters. The point you’re making is subjective to you from inside a vacuum. You can’t use ONLY your experiences to form a proper response to the issues being addressed. I don’t do dungeons because I personally find them boring, but I know there are a large amount of people who do and do them on multiple characters. There’s an entire discord server dedicated to them and there’s thousands of players in there. Almost 3500 to be exact and that’s just one server. You have to step out of your own bias and understand that things like this do affect a lot of people and there’s a lot of people who aren’t happy because they feel like their time and effort is being erased. We’re not saying the concept should be scrapped. We’re saying it should be refined and tuned to cater to communities uniquely.
Agree...
I have two MAs. A third is close, which I may well have finished by now had I not stopped cos of this patch... and 3 other toons that I have made good progress on - I tend to do them by zone.
I enjoy doing things on multiple toons, cos I'm here for the story, the RPG. I enjoy having to kill a bunch of mobs 60 times cos I get too tick it off on a new favourite toon.
That's me, that's what I like doing. I enjoy chilling and ticking things off...
I have never tried for a trifecta and have zero interest in all that stress
IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]
I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.
We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.
from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide
I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.
sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind
doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one
so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects
A great representation would be to go to the Twitter and Youtube polls where the results are vastly in disfavor of the system. So it’s not just a small amount of players who are upset about it. One of those polls had 95% of people who voted against the system. A Twitter poll had 67% against it. My point being that you’re trying to portray that only a small faction of players dislike this feature and that simply isn’t the case.
IrishOphidia wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]
I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.
We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.
from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide
I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.
sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind
doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one
so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects
I’d argue the opposite. I know a lot of people with multiple Master Anglers. Like 3-4. I know a lot of people with multiple GHs, Godslayers, IRs. I know a bunch of people with multiple Emperor characters. The point you’re making is subjective to you from inside a vacuum. You can’t use ONLY your experiences to form a proper response to the issues being addressed. I don’t do dungeons because I personally find them boring, but I know there are a large amount of people who do and do them on multiple characters. There’s an entire discord server dedicated to them and there’s thousands of players in there. Almost 3500 to be exact and that’s just one server. You have to step out of your own bias and understand that things like this do affect a lot of people and there’s a lot of people who aren’t happy because they feel like their time and effort is being erased. We’re not saying the concept should be scrapped. We’re saying it should be refined and tuned to cater to communities uniquely.
Agree...
I have two MAs. A third is close, which I may well have finished by now had I not stopped cos of this patch... and 3 other toons that I have made good progress on - I tend to do them by zone.
I enjoy doing things on multiple toons, cos I'm here for the story, the RPG. I enjoy having to kill a bunch of mobs 60 times cos I get too tick it off on a new favourite toon.
That's me, that's what I like doing. I enjoy chilling and ticking things off...
I have never tried for a trifecta and have zero interest in all that stress
My point exactly. There’s a guy that has gotten 32 Master Anglers lol. I’m sure he’s very unhappy.
When your biggest compliant about account-wide achievements is that players will have less incentive to get them, then the problem is with the incentives to do the content not the account wide achievements.
There should be enough incentive for doing the content on its own.
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]
I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.
We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.
from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide
I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.
sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind
doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one
so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects
A great representation would be to go to the Twitter and Youtube polls where the results are vastly in disfavor of the system. So it’s not just a small amount of players who are upset about it. One of those polls had 95% of people who voted against the system. A Twitter poll had 67% against it. My point being that you’re trying to portray that only a small faction of players dislike this feature and that simply isn’t the case.
dont use twitter atall
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596364/would-you-prefer-account-wide-achievements/p1
found this a few mins ago
57% for it
26% against
15% mix
=twice as much players want the system than dont want the system
When your biggest compliant about account-wide achievements is that players will have less incentive to get them, then the problem is with the incentives to do the content not the account wide achievements.
There should be enough incentive for doing the content on its own.
I understand that someone is feeling bad because he did some hard achievments on different toons and now its kinda going to a waste. (RIP the guy with 18 master anglers.)
But, please don't give me all that [snip] that you are concerned about other players doing harder achivments, trifecta runs etc., because they will have it harder to get due the fact that less people will help them out.
I am that player that you're trying to defend here, and here is my point of view: none of you will help me do a trifecta, I can do it only with players I know, and play with. With friends, and those friends wount care if they already have it or not. No end game player that I dont know is going to help me.
I can't even do a vSS without linking an achivement that I have already done it - that basicaly sums up how the current state of endgame players "helping with achivments" look like.
[edited for profanity bypass]
willymancer69 wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »willymancer69 wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »ive been kind of wanting them to do account wide achievements for quite a long time now
i initially started trying to get as many achievement on my main as possible, however, there were some i just knew i wasnt going to be able to get with him
this led to me just trying to get achievements on whatever toon was able to complete the content the best with their current build to earn the achievement at least once
with titles i was just using whatever the "hardest" title was to get on that particular toon, instead of trying to be creative with them or theming because majority of the titles were on my main
Now, would you ever redo those achievements again on another toon? In short, is there any replayability that exists for you for those achievements?
Many of us, RPers who love the mainland stories or people who push trial clears, stay on this game for their unique ability to allow us to "re-earn" achievements. This has been removed from the game, removing many sectors of the playerbase's motivation to keep playing after many years of playing.
i dont see why you cant still redo the requirements of those achievements, from the way i see it, your still doing the same content just on a different toon, to me it would be more about the enjoyment of the group of people you are running it with
i personally havent gotten any of those trifecta achievements yet, but if i wanted a challenge i would still try to do them, even if i had already completed them (i may want to help a friend get it, or just because i wanted to do it again)
to me the achievement should be a representation of the first time you accomplished something in the game, but not necessarily the entire reason you were running the content in the first place
under your logic i should never even bother doing dungeon HMs for any dungeon even FG1 again, even though ive done that many many times and not just for undaunted pledges
i mean no disrespect if you want to keep achievements tracked per character, i personally would have just been happy if they had touched up the achievement page to see how much you had completed in total and which characters had which achievement, but im also not unhappy with the way they are implementing it, as it wont change the way im going to play
I get where you're coming from, but I think there are different barriers to entry for some of the things listed. Some of the achievements you listed take 6-9 hours of people pushing their peak performance for months while others take a few hours or weeks (a HM clear for dungeons).
Respectfully, the point I was trying to make is we're now missing incentive to push for prestigious achievements a second time, achievements from trifectas to Master Angler to Master Crafters etc. This game uniquely gave you a reward for pushing these high investment achievements a second time (title unlocked, achievement unlocked and date) where other games don't recognize and reward that effort (ex. WoW). That now won't exist in ESO, pushing many of us away. Personally, I play this game to re-earn achievements on different toons, by class or role. I no longer have any incentive.
I hope this better clarifies what I meant.
IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]
I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.
We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.
from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide
I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.
sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind
doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one
so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects
A great representation would be to go to the Twitter and Youtube polls where the results are vastly in disfavor of the system. So it’s not just a small amount of players who are upset about it. One of those polls had 95% of people who voted against the system. A Twitter poll had 67% against it. My point being that you’re trying to portray that only a small faction of players dislike this feature and that simply isn’t the case.
dont use twitter atall
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596364/would-you-prefer-account-wide-achievements/p1
found this a few mins ago
57% for it
26% against
15% mix
=twice as much players want the system than dont want the system
This mans just say don’t use Twitter at all? The whole conversation ZoS had on communication was based and gathered on a Twitter thread made by Gina and their decisions are being made using those discussions. Come on, bro. I can clearly see you’re smarter than that. That was just an ignorant comment.
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »IrishOphidia wrote: »Very incorrect. A large number of the true end-game players use trifecta tracking as a way of tracking how efficient players are at different content. “I want to push x in x trial.” and someone has 3-4 titles on different characters for that trial then I’m going to take them due to experience. Also, this will inherently make it far more difficult for newer players to get these titles because experienced players will have no reason to join those progressions to help those groups. This will heavily affect a lot of progression groups that rely on those experienced players.
Getting trifectas IS valuable and more prestigious than a vast majority of the content simply due to difficulty alone. Saying they aren’t is simply laughable. Same applies to PvP. “Oh you got Emperor and Grand Overlord on 18 characters?!” No, they got it once. That’s less impressive. You belittling the time and effort other people put into achieving these titles on multiple characters is simple arrogance.SeaUnicorn wrote: »
Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
Planesbreaker takes 12 people to invest 8-9 hours a week for 2-4 months to achieve. If you have not done it you can't judge people who did. And nobody says Master Angler is inferior. But you can do Master Angler on your own, you don't need 11 other people to commit time to it. Planesbreaker does. So if you take out motivation to replay that particular achievement - people who want to do it few patches after (i.e. new players or players who progress *** slowly, i.e. casual gamers) will have hella hard time getting a group for it. Cuz without incentive why would people who already have it commit 100+ hours of their lives to re-prog it again?.. Currently you have GS progs where 7 players already have it and getting it on alts, and 5 fresh players. Try to roster prog 7 people. That is a death for a raiding team, god forbid you have supports among those 7, your group is done for...
Basically as all the other changes its not the end game players top 1% who gets punished, its the mid tier players....
Planesbreaker takes 12 ppl that are interested in that content and want to spend the time to do it. Its all about players enjoying content and doing it. It doesnt matter how much ppl you need and how much time you spend, it just comes down to this baseline. The moment you say "Oh no this is harder and time consuming" You diminish everything other players do just because they either spend less time or need less ppl to do it.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Iam not saying its impossible. I simply dont like the stance "hey i can do this content and my rewards deserve special treatment because what i do is the pinacle of the game". Everything should be treated the same way. Otherwise we end up with ppl feeling unfairly treated because whatever they do is viewed as lesser content.
You're missing the point entirely. It's not about just trifectas, but they are most assuredly on average the biggest time investment, gold sink, energy sink and teamwork-themed accomplishment in ESO. However, I view dungeon trifectas the same. I view achievements like Master Angler the same. I view achievements like the Adventurer lines that state you've completed every quest the same.
You think all I care about is trifectas. They are what's personal to me, absolutely. I care about important, difficult achievements. If you want your game to lose what's left of its end-game player base, carry on. That's all you're encouraging. Kill the MMO you like, I guess.
To me it looks like iam getting the point entireley because you agreed with me. Everything should be handled the same. So either everything gets moved over or it doesnt.soulreaper1213 wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »2. Trifecta Tracking
You guys should stop trying to elevate the importance of this content beyond anything else. Trifectas exist, a few ppl get them, fewer do them a number of times, but they are not more valueable than someone spending the time for something else. Expecting an exception for this is basically saying "Iam fine with your content becoming account wide but i want an exception for mine". This is not going to work.
This is a *** reason to remove the ability to individually get a trifecta per character. The people who have 1 trifecta do not lose anything from individual trifecta/title tracking. The people who have multiple trifectas lose a physical, in-game reason to pursue another trifecta but on a different character. Most of end-game pve players want individual title tracking as that is the reason to do a piece of content multiple times.
Instead, you should stop diminishing the importance that people place into the individual character tracking of trifectas. Trifectas exist, my level 3 warden didn't get TTT.
Iam not giving a reason to remove them. All iam saying is that all Achievments should be handled equally because different players treasure and like different ones. That m,eans you either move all or none, but not this "my stuff is important" [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]
I’m sorry, but whether you like it or not, done achieves simply carry more weight and ARE more difficult than others. Just because a player cherishes x achievement more than y does not mean that x carries more weight. Doing dungeon/trial trifectas and buying all the motifs to get an achievement are not equal no matter how much you argue that it is. The vast majority of achievements in ESO are very easy and not very time consuming. Yet there are achievements that take a lot of time and effort to achieve which in turn makes them more “prestigious” achievements because not many players can achieve them. I’m sorry, but this isn’t a participation trophy system. You don’t just get Alpha Predator, Master Angler, Emperor, or Godslayer just by showing up, doing a few quests, or buying a few items to complete.
We’re not saying that people shouldn’t cherish the achievements that they do. We’re simply saying that the ones that are inherently difficult to get and are viewed by entire communities as such should be excluded from this change. Nobody is going around talking about “Cut and Run” the same way they are the others I listed above which by definition gives them more prestige.
from the few u listed i got 2 (emp x2 and master angler)
and both i would never do them again - but i did them - not my charcter did decide to do the achievments no i did and i got them - it doesnt matter on which char i have done them i could have done them on all of mine - therefor this is an achievment for me, not for the char which in returns means that acount wide is way more logical than char wide
I’m not going to list out every achievement this applies to. I listed a handful from different aspects of the game. However, just because YOU won’t do them again doesn’t mean others don’t. Many people have and still do replay them. More specifically in PvE and PvP. Things like PvP rankings and titles along with PvE dungeon/trial achievements and titles. Those ARE character specific. I know loads of people who are efficient on one character, but terrible on others both in PvE and PvP. Making those achievements very much character achieved.
sure some do replay them but more do not - i now so many people who have 1 or 2 (diffrent) tripples but only a handful who has multiple ones of the same kind
doesnt only apply to tripples - now many people who have done master fisher but only 1 who has more than one
so here again only very few players would be negativly affectet but so many would have positive effects
A great representation would be to go to the Twitter and Youtube polls where the results are vastly in disfavor of the system. So it’s not just a small amount of players who are upset about it. One of those polls had 95% of people who voted against the system. A Twitter poll had 67% against it. My point being that you’re trying to portray that only a small faction of players dislike this feature and that simply isn’t the case.
dont use twitter atall
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/596364/would-you-prefer-account-wide-achievements/p1
found this a few mins ago
57% for it
26% against
15% mix
=twice as much players want the system than dont want the system
This mans just say don’t use Twitter at all? The whole conversation ZoS had on communication was based and gathered on a Twitter thread made by Gina and their decisions are being made using those discussions. Come on, bro. I can clearly see you’re smarter than that. That was just an ignorant comment.
sry my fail i wanted to write I dont use twitter at all - so just my personal preference