dark convergence is ruining cyrodiil

REiiGN15 · October 2021

CoronHR wrote: »

i've never been pulled through a wall, only pulled to the edge of a wall i'm standing on and to a point where i can't get back onto the wall platform very easily

they just said in twitch tv that dark convergence pulling people who are up on walls is a bug and they're working on a fix

Oh yea, real hard at work. Probably see that fix next year.

kargen27 · October 2021

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

It is a this point a player usually freaks out. Instead of roll dodging back or walking out they roll right off the edge. They’re usually quite freaked because unlike getting hit on flat open terrain their escape vector is cut by 25-50% due to the ledge.

So, as I'm standing here pouring oil on the enemy ram below, please explain to me how I could "freak out" and and roll right off the edge when I get hit with Dark Convergence through the wall? But I've been pulled through the floor here several times, and dumped right in the middle of 10 or more enemies on the porch, who usually zerg me down quickly, if I can't get away fast enough.

I'm glad it's never happened to you, but don't be so quick to try and discredit those who experience this on a regular basis.

1) I asked for a video. A pic shows nothing here but oils set up.

2) Is this Alessian Bridge? From the windows it looks like it.

3) If this has happened has it happened in any keep/outpost or just the bridge?

This is over the front door of Castle Brindle.

And the onus is not upon me to prove that I am not a liar. The onus is upon you to prove that I am one.

Except I’ve still never seen evidence that backs up the claim that DC pulls you through walls. I mean am I supposed to wait for this to somehow occur when you say it happens all the time yet refuse to provide actual proof?

When you are in Cyrodiil do you spend any time trying to take or defend keeps? The large keeps are not as bad as they used to be but it does still happen. Go to Bleakers, Nickle or Sejanus and you will see it happen still really regular that people get pulled from the wall. Players work together. One uses Dark Convergence to yank players off the wall and another keeps AoE up where they are going to land. The forums is a small representation of the games population. This many people reporting so quick after the set dropped pretty much lets you know it happens and it happens often enough that players don't think it is the rare fluke.

I’ve played a lot of Cyro after patch. Asked around constantly for experiences with being pulled through walls and platforms in zone and guilds. I’ve gotten zero confirmations.

If this is prevalent or a thing it should be easily repeatable and thus a video can be put up. Why have I yet to see that? It’s been at least a month and still nothing.

No idea because I see people pulled from the top and pulled into something so they are stuck every time I go there.

blxdes · October 2021

Pulled mid air jumping down from a wall in BGs - the set is completely broken

jerj6925 · October 2021

ESO has become a game for the good ol boys club of players, very much a game for the elitist. The ball group players were the biggest complainers about Hrothgards chill being overpowered and wreaking the game because it took no skill to win fights It was very easy to avoid that armor proc. It didn’t wreak anything it caused complete chaos on the field where everyone was killing everyone and well the good ol’ boys couldn’t have that because something they work so hard for was just turned upside down and rather than trying to (as they would say) learn and adapt… they cried it needed to be weaken and it was. Good ol boys got what they wanted.

Now I can see why the ball groups like Dark convergence, makes it real easy to pull players into their path when they want to charge… you wont see this set get changed at all because its not hurting the ball groups. For some reason ZOS has … a warm fuzzy for (figured I better clean it UP) them as well as bombers. Yep bombers, the only class where if you are the one or the 5, 10, 15, 30+ people killed by a single bomber well then you were just not playing smart to get caught in that range and should have spread out… but if you got killed buy Hrothgards.. well its not your fault that you were bunched up in that blast range it was that crap armor that was no skill to use.

What’s wrong with Dark Convergence, nothing. Why does it seem broke? It’s the crap servers that can’t handle the game mechanics is what’s wrong. Can’t tell you how many times I am well out of range or rolled out of it or it pulls me through a wall or door but mostly its just the game lagging and I won’t know I got pulled into one until I am already dead.
On a side note I got kicked from a group because the tank sucked pulling in all the mobs so I was trying to help him by letting him start the fight then I would land a DC ball on top of him making it I thought much more easy… guess he didn’t like that.

I know this post is about Dark Convergence, but I would love to see Hrothgards go back to its original release, it was nice to see all types of players killing all types of players in cyrodiil.

Karivaa · October 2021

So how do you counter ball groups with dark conversion? Right now they are using it to constantly bomb and farm us.

Jaraal · October 2021

Karivaa wrote: »

So how do you counter ball groups with dark conversion? Right now they are using it to constantly bomb and farm us.

That is exactly what ZOS designed it to do. So that ball groups can counter "pesky zergs."

It's in the patch notes, and apparently working as intended.

ServerusEcru · October 2021

Jaraal wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

So how do you counter ball groups with dark conversion? Right now they are using it to constantly bomb and farm us.

That is exactly what ZOS designed it to do. So that ball groups can counter "pesky zergs."

It's in the patch notes, and apparently working as intended.

The problem with your argument is that it is a Battlegrounds set. So there are no pesky zergs to contend with. If you have a ball group with four guys running this OP set you are worst than zerg sadly. it becomes toxic and broken.

Jaraal · October 2021

ServerusEcru wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

So how do you counter ball groups with dark conversion? Right now they are using it to constantly bomb and farm us.

That is exactly what ZOS designed it to do. So that ball groups can counter "pesky zergs."

It's in the patch notes, and apparently working as intended.

The problem with your argument is that it is a Battlegrounds set. So there are no pesky zergs to contend with. If you have a ball group with four guys running this OP set you are worst than zerg sadly. it becomes toxic and broken.

Oh, I agree with you. It's ZOS's argument, not mine. Unfortunately, they are just kicking back and watching the show at this point.

madrab73 · October 2021

You admitted that the 5 piece proc is bugged on the live stream, can this be disabled until fixed please?

SFxxKANExx · October 2021

Just as a side note about the efficacy of Dark Convergence. I do not like this patch at all and reduced my play time a lot. Running Dark Convergence on my group play negate snare sorc gave me like 1800 kills in around 12 hours of play time (xbox kill count). The flow of the combat is not appealing to me right now but the more experienced players will always adapt and be more effective. On the receiving end - I rarely die to Dark Convergence -> block, roll dodge or streak and I am usually fine.

AuraStorm43 · October 2021

Can Earthgore purge Dark Convergence? Ik Negates can remove it i’m just curious

Xandreia_ · October 2021

All you have to do is look at steam charts and see how much its gone down since the release of dark convergence... 13% decrease in player base just on steam.... its alot

trackdemon5512 · October 2021

Xandreia_ wrote: »

All you have to do is look at steam charts and see how much its gone down since the release of dark convergence... 13% decrease in player base just on steam.... its alot

You’re attributing a perceived 13% decrease to one set which is frankly ridiculous to do. You have no evidence of such. I could similarly argue that schools going back into session since the release of the update has had the same effect. But without actual evidence it’s just a wild conjecture.

DUTCH_REAPER · October 2021

Fixing the lag would fix sooooooo much before calling out sets. Imagine a world where when you break free you actually break free. Or when you roll dodge you actually roll dodge. A world in which when you hit and release a skill it goes off reliably.

Xandreia_ · October 2021

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Xandreia_ wrote: »

All you have to do is look at steam charts and see how much its gone down since the release of dark convergence... 13% decrease in player base just on steam.... its alot

You’re attributing a perceived 13% decrease to one set which is frankly ridiculous to do. You have no evidence of such. I could similarly argue that schools going back into session since the release of the update has had the same effect. But without actual evidence it’s just a wild conjecture.

Saying "since the release of dark convergence" was a general statement, its well known that in pvp since the set was added performance took a huge dump, that in turn with devs refusing to listen to the players they ignore the most..... its not surprising the population took a hit, I even asked rich lambert on his stream why he thinks pvpers feel ignored and forgotten and even he said the situation could have possibly been handled better... just look at the forums and see the complaints that go unnoticed, pvp is completely ruined and devs are doing nothing to help it, that's if you can take the time from whiteknighting devs that don't care

*waits patiently to be banned*

Tan9oSuccka · October 2021

It’s a novel idea though they had to know it would be abused by zergs, try hards, meta chasers, ball groups….pretty much everyone.

That’s a balance and design failure.

Cronopoly · October 2021

There should be a new set with a 5 piece that called:

Ranged Talons Proxy Detonation...
or
Wiley Coyote Cliff Dropper 😐😁

guarstompemoji · October 2021

Outside of the lag, the issues in Cyrodil are socially-originated in nature. The difference in skill levels of a coordinated ball group for example, versus a group of friends or hopeful PUGs. The difficulty in newer players finding a group to play with.

Cyrodil was never designed as solo PvP. Its base mechanics will always fight against that. Solo-prominent PvP can be found in duels and in some Battlegrounds. In Cyrodil, it can be found in scouting, and a skilled bomber, although by nature these individual roles only work when there is group PvP to stand against. ...which fits into the group-PvP that Cyrodil was coded for.

Having these different options, foci, and flavors of each PvP Zone, is important as it gives each preference a place to play.

Addressing Cyrodil long-term could be served well by turn its strength, social PvP, into leverage that addresses its own issues.

Examples could be:

o Making it easier and more flavorful for Guilds to advertise and recruit, and for new players to find them. What about "Company Recruiters" in the home gates, with a sign-up and apply button? A board with recruitment pamphlets, summarizing different guilds?

o Encouraging and rewarding mentorship of new players. The community could brainstorm on this one, argue over it, and debate. Good ideas could be had, here.

o Occasional events that encouraging learning Cyrodil's mechanics and that lean into its flavors. This is a fun alternative to more tutorials. MyM gives blanket rewards.

For example, draconic-looking, massive daedra who, as in the legends of the Dragonguard, must be brought to earth with siege weapons. Make these events legendary and rewarding, but reliant upon Cyrodil's unique mechanics. Require multiple siege to take them down.

These events do not need to change Cyrodil's structure, where keeps are placed, etc. They would however, shake things up occasionally, and add that "AWESOME!" factor as well as encouraging learning siege mechanics in a fun way. They give people that boost of, "Yay! We did it, together!"

Events like these make good streams, too.

o PvP could benefit from a community manager(s), with reach and authority.

o Churnover and burnout is a thing in the gaming industry that harms games. I am not saying it happens at ZoS; I know it happens at other companies. Knowledgeable, indepth community managers, and coders who know by heart, the foundations of a complex project like an MMO are foundational to the game's thriving and survival. Treat employees with love and respect. Reward and support long-term investment of employees. Support and care for them.

People come to play, have fun, and enjoy the game. One way to "address Cyrodil" is by embracing what it was built for, then turning those strengths into leverage to address weakness.

DC was a mechanical answer made to address what is not wholly but in large part, a set of socially-crafted issues. It isn't to say that using mechanics to correct social issues is wrong--only that it is more difficult, fraught with pitfalls, and risks greater backlash. It also deprives a developer of built-in strengths when addressing an issue.

Foxtrot39 · October 2021

3 easy fix that would make the spam less potent :

-1 shorten the time for it to explode a tiny bit or not

-Only 1 pull instead of 2

-Pulled target are immune to DC pull effect for 15s

The rest is either game design flaw (like some attacks/skills ignore LoS and hit through walls) and latency because server are god awfull even in BG

Mrtoobyy · October 2021

Giraffon wrote: »

So I rage quit BG's because of their stupid deathmatch only test. I thought to myself, well, I guess I'll go check out Cyrodiil. I haven't been there in a long time. There was a big fight at one of the chokepoint gates. We had control of the wall itself. I was up on this thing and then dark convergence set yanks me off into a mob of enemies.

So BGs are crap. Cyrodiil is crap. Off to IC I guess.

I think PVP in the current state is crap. The crappiest it's ever been in my experience. If DC set and PVP were physical things I would spit on them then stomp them into pieces and burn the leftovers. That is how I feel

EdmondDontes · October 2021

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

3 easy fix that would make the spam less potent :

-1 shorten the time for it to explode a tiny bit or not

-Only 1 pull instead of 2

-Pulled target are immune to DC pull effect for 15s

The rest is either game design flaw (like some attacks/skills ignore LoS and hit through walls) and latency because server are god awfull even in BG

The proc pull from the set is the part that has to go. Pulling players should take aiming and resources; it should take a skill to move another player from one point on the map to another. Doing it for free and throwing a ton of dps on at the same time is a god mode mechanic that shouldn't exist.

neferpitou73 · October 2021

beagles wrote: »

Outside of the lag, the issues in Cyrodil are socially-originated in nature. The difference in skill levels of a coordinated ball group for example, versus a group of friends or hopeful PUGs. The difficulty in newer players finding a group to play with.

Cyrodil was never designed as solo PvP. Its base mechanics will always fight against that. Solo-prominent PvP can be found in duels and in some Battlegrounds. In Cyrodil, it can be found in scouting, and a skilled bomber, although by nature these individual roles only work when there is group PvP to stand against. ...which fits into the group-PvP that Cyrodil was coded for.

Having these different options, foci, and flavors of each PvP Zone, is important as it gives each preference a place to play.

Addressing Cyrodil long-term could be served well by turn its strength, social PvP, into leverage that addresses its own issues.

Examples could be:

o Making it easier and more flavorful for Guilds to advertise and recruit, and for new players to find them. What about "Company Recruiters" in the home gates, with a sign-up and apply button? A board with recruitment pamphlets, summarizing different guilds?

o Encouraging and rewarding mentorship of new players. The community could brainstorm on this one, argue over it, and debate. Good ideas could be had, here.

o Occasional events that encouraging learning Cyrodil's mechanics and that lean into its flavors. This is a fun alternative to more tutorials. MyM gives blanket rewards.

For example, draconic-looking, massive daedra who, as in the legends of the Dragonguard, must be brought to earth with siege weapons. Make these events legendary and rewarding, but reliant upon Cyrodil's unique mechanics. Require multiple siege to take them down.

These events do not need to change Cyrodil's structure, where keeps are placed, etc. They would however, shake things up occasionally, and add that "AWESOME!" factor as well as encouraging learning siege mechanics in a fun way. They give people that boost of, "Yay! We did it, together!"

Events like these make good streams, too.

o PvP could benefit from a community manager(s), with reach and authority.

o Churnover and burnout is a thing in the gaming industry that harms games. I am not saying it happens at ZoS; I know it happens at other companies. Knowledgeable, indepth community managers, and coders who know by heart, the foundations of a complex project like an MMO are foundational to the game's thriving and survival. Treat employees with love and respect. Reward and support long-term investment of employees. Support and care for them.

People come to play, have fun, and enjoy the game. One way to "address Cyrodil" is by embracing what it was built for, then turning those strengths into leverage to address weakness.

DC was a mechanical answer made to address what is not wholly but in large part, a set of socially-crafted issues. It isn't to say that using mechanics to correct social issues is wrong--only that it is more difficult, fraught with pitfalls, and risks greater backlash. It also deprives a developer of built-in strengths when addressing an issue.

I agree with almost everything said here. I will say that If ZOS wanted to fix Cyrodiil one of the best things they could would be to revert the change on group sizes. And no, this isn't a "please let me make a bigger ball group!" post. The reality is player population and game quality in general took a nosedive during the Greymoor patch when this change was implemented. Although that's also because they added other trashy proc sets around that time.

They said they made this change because they liked the "behavioral changes" they saw. But at this point its obvious that it was abject failure unless the behavioral changes you were after were driving people out of Cyrodiil. Noone in there right mind would want to lead a pickup group in zone right now because if even a couple players don't pull their weight the group is sunk. Where before with a good group of core players you could be a group to be reckoned with even if some of the "extra" players in the group weren't up to par.

joseayalac · October 2021

Dark Convergence sucks!

Mrtoobyy · October 2021

What do you think of the changes to the set? Will we see it used just as much?

CoronHR · November 2021

Since we've got major downtime due to the Q4 update, I decided to tally the user comments to see who hates this set, who doesn't like it, who doesn't mind it, and who likes it.

Each tally is for a player, not a comment. In other words, a player mentioning multiple Hate it comments only got counted as 1.

Hate it (16)
Don't like it (22)
Don't mind it (7)
Like it (9)

The 'Hate it's remarked about how much they didn't like, how they stopped playing Cyro over it, or even worse, like cancelling a sub. (I'm in the Hate it category; didn't cancel sub of course, but i stopped playing Cyro over it)

The 'Don't like it's complained about it to some extent, don't use it and want ZOS to do something about it.

The 'Don't mind it's seemed to like what it does, but perhaps mentioned that a change is needed.

The 'Like it's either like it or love it. Some wanted it to be stronger.

The set is getting changed in the update, so after some time with it, I might post a proper poll about how the changes have affected the set, i.e. improved it, no difference, or things are worse. I suspect things will be better, but still, it's gonna pull ppl, which is my biggest beef with this set. That and the wall pulls.